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  • in reply to: Creative writing – CR users in real life! #1067346
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “You got him kicked out btw”

    For saying that he wore Israeli Flag cuff-links?

    in reply to: YWN ads and satmar for Cuomo #1039667
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Ok, so everyone knows that homosexuality is a ?????. But as the Chayei Adam points out in the Hakdama Kolleles, the Torah only says that homosexuality is a ?????, not that a homosexual is a ????? and the same by every aveirah which is a ?????. Except by ga’avah where the Torah says ????? ?’ ?? ??? ??, meaning that ga’avah is so bad that the actual person is a ?????. So would people make as big of a deal if a candidate supported ga’avah?

    in reply to: I want to move to Passaic from Monsey #1045379
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant
    in reply to: Zionism, Why the Big Debate? #1101832
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    I’ll quote something I quoted in a different thread because the bolded part is relevant to this discussion:

    Kisvei R’ Chaim Eliezer Bichovski:

    ??? ?? ??? ???? ??’ ???? ????? ????

    ???? ????? ????? ???”? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???”? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?’ ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????

    ??”? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ?’ ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ?? ??

    ???????? ????? ?”? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ???”? ???? ??”?

    ????? ?????? ????? ??? ???”? ??”? ?”? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?”? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????”? ???? ?? ????”? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????”? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????”? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ?’ ???? ???? ????? ??? ??”? ????? ??’ ????? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?”? ?’ ??? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????????? ???? ??? ????”? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???”? ?? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??????”? ???? ??? ?”? ???”? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??”? ???? ???’ ????? ????? ??? ??’ ?”? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ????

    in reply to: Torah Sources in Support of Kollel #1175025
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Kisvei R’ Chaim Eliezer Bichovski:

    ??? ?? ??? ???? ??’ ???? ????? ????

    ???? ????? ????? ???”? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???”? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?’ ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ??”? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ?’ ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ?? ?? ???????? ????? ?”? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ???”? ???? ??”? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ???”? ??”? ?”? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?”? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????”? ???? ?? ????”? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????”? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????”? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?? ?? ?’ ???? ???? ????? ??? ??”? ????? ??’ ????? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?”? ?’ ??? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????????? ???? ??? ????”? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???”? ?? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??????”? ???? ??? ?”? ???”? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??”? ???? ???’ ????? ????? ??? ??’ ?”? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ????

    in reply to: ALL ABOARD- PROJECT IMPROVE #1045604
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Meiheicha teisi he was talking about habitual nail biting?

    He wasn’t. He was saying that anything which is assur to do on Shabbos, if you do it during the week and acknowledge that it’s assur to do on Shabbos then you get a mitzvah.

    in reply to: ALL ABOARD- PROJECT IMPROVE #1045603
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Why do I bite my nails? I REALLY don’t know!

    I once posted an answer to this question on a different thread, but it didn’t get approved. I assume it was because of a certain word, so I’ll change that word and see if it gets through:

    According to Freud’s theory of personality development, a fixation on nail biting can be a maladaptive practice developed because of a failure to properly negotiate the Oral Stage.

    in reply to: Torah Sources in Support of Kollel #1175024
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Chasam Sofer, Toras Moshe Parshas Shoftim:

    ?? ???? ???’ ??? ??? ???? ?????”? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???’ ?????? ??? ????? ?”? ???’ ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??”? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?’ ?????? ??? ??’ ??????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???”? ?”? ???? ?????? ??’ ?????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??”? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ???”? ????? ?’ ?????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?”? ????”? ??’ ???? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ?”? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?”? ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?”? ??’ ????? ?? ?????? ???? ????”? ??’ ?????? ????? ????? ???????

    ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ?”? ???? ??? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??”? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?”? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ????”? ????? ??? ?????? ??’ ?????? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ?????

    in reply to: Torah Sources in Support of Kollel #1175023
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Chasam Sofer Succah 36a:

    ????? ??”? ????”? ??”? ??? ?????? ???”? ??’ ?????? ?”? ???? ?????? ?????’ ???? ??? ????”? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?”? ???? ????”? ??? ???”? ??? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?’ ????? ???????? ????? ????????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ??? ????”? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???????? ?”? ?? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????”? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ?”? ???? ??? ????”? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ???”? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??”? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?”? ??????? ??????’ ??????’ ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??????’ ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?”? ?? ???? ?? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??????’ ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??????’ ???”? ??? ??”? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?’ ????? ???? ?”? ????”? ??”? ??? ?????’ ?? ?’ ?????? ?????’ ??? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??”? ???”? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ???’ ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???”? ?????? ??????? ?”? ?? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?”? ???? ????’ ????? ?”? ?”? ?????

    in reply to: ALL ABOARD- PROJECT IMPROVE #1045599
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Because it’s saying that if you bite your nails during the week and say “this is assur to do on shabbos” you are mekayeim shabbos by doing so. As opposed to the Chazon Ish who said that you’re mechalel shabbos by doing so.

    in reply to: ALL ABOARD- PROJECT IMPROVE #1045596
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Syag, I’ve heard that the Chazon Ish once saw someone biting his nails during the week and said it’s chillul Shabbos (because will do it out of habit on Shabbos).

    I posted the exact opposite in a different thread:

    ??????? ??? ??? ?:

    ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ??? ????

    Maybe there’s a difference if doing it during the week will mamesh cause you to do it on Shabbos.

    in reply to: So now that I'm here already… let's raise some issues #1039033
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    You didn’t quote my response there:

    “You then claim that a seminary girl in an online forum does not write with this level of a precision of language. Even if were to agree with that (which I certainly don’t)…”

    in reply to: In Search #1043354
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Wow, you have a lot of chavrusas. If you are going to do Chovos Halevavos with one chavrusa and Chorev with another chavrusa, and one is a teacher and the other is a fellow student, I would recommend doing Chovos Halevavos with the teacher. Although it seems from what you wrote that you already are doing something else with the other chavrusa and Chorev and Chovos Halevavos would be vying for the chavrusa with this teacher. But to reiterate about Chorev, you don’t have to finish the whole thing or even half of it. Think of each piece as a separate sefer.

    By the way it would be pretty funny if one of the people giving suggestions here was actually your teacher.

    Oh, and I’m going to add uighwisarogh;oaerhg to my lexicon. It’s definitely more intelligible than ontic dualism. Speaking of which, Microsoft Word apparently never took any philosophy classes because it doesn’t know the word ontic. Actually, it’s the Coffee Room spell checker that doesn’t know ontic; Microsoft Word recognized the word but couldn’t think of any synonyms for it. But I’m not surprised – as I discovered last week, Microsoft Word doesn’t think that hacceity is a word.

    in reply to: Creative writing – CR users in real life! #1067343
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant
    in reply to: Creative writing – CR users in real life! #1067341
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Lamud Vov Tzadik:

    You were already in the last one.

    Bp Yidd:

    Vayoel Moshe was in the story. Not Viyoel Moishe. Unless you’re saying that they are the same person.

    in reply to: In Search #1043352
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Interesting. I was thinking of recommending Chorev. I don’t think its massiveness will be a problem, because each mitzvah is an individual self contained piece which has nothing to do with any of the others. Not only that, you don’t have to follow any order; you can pick whichever ones interest you the most. And I think 25 minutes is enough time to get through one of them – some of the shorter ones might even allow for multiple pieces per session. Also, if your considering something like Chorev, you can also consider something like Sefer Hachinuch or even the Rambam’s Sefer Hamitzvos, but I think Chorev would be the best of those for the intellectual stimulation you are looking for.

    If you are considering Shemoneh Perakim, I would point out that it is not particularly long, so depending on your pace, you might well finish it in a couple of months, which if you are planning to have this chavrusa for the duration of the year would cause you to have to come up up with another idea in the middle of the year. Then again, if you do choose Shemoneh Perakim, and you are also doing Pirkei Avos with the Bartenura, if you finish Shemoneh Perakim worst comes to worst you can just segue into Pirkei Avos with the Rambam’s commentary. (Though I don’t know if you would want to be concurrently learning two different parts of Pirkei Avos, with different commentaries.)

    (I was also going to suggest something in Tanach, but I assumed you wouldn’t want that. Bad assumption. I would have suggested something like Iyov which can be very intellectual especially in the discussion of why good things happen to bad people. But something like that probably wouldn’t work so well in a 25 minutes a week setup and it sounds like Navi was nixed anyway {although technically it’s not Navi}.)

    Regarding mussar seforim, there is a broad spectrum. For example, something like Orchos Tzadikim, you would probably consider “fluffy”, Mesilas Yesharim (which you have already learned) and Ohr Yisrael probably less so, and something like Chovos Halevavos can be pretty intellectual, perhaps even bordering on philosophical.

    Keep in mind ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???.

    in reply to: Creative writing – CR users in real life! #1067337
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    I don’t get it.

    in reply to: Unclosed Thread #1038933
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Fine. Just wait until next time…

    in reply to: Unclosed Thread #1038931
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Oh, I thought I was the one being difficult.

    Generally, but this time I beat you to it 🙂

    in reply to: Unclosed Thread #1038930
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Why would the time zone affect who reads it first?

    Unless you mean that he already moved his clock back an hour and you didn’t so he somehow went back in time and preempted you.

    Or maybe I was just being difficult

    in reply to: Unclosed Thread #1038928
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    I also wondered but I don’t argue with mods – 29

    Ok, I’m getting confused here. I asked a kashya on 29, and 100 answered it and then deleted it?

    Apparently so. We’re in different time zones so he reads all the posts first – 29

    in reply to: Unclosed Thread #1038927
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    I’m curious to know which thread it was. (I can’t imagine it should be a problem to link to, as the mods merely closed it and left it online rather than deleting it altogether.)

    It’s a secret.

    in reply to: Unclosed Thread #1038925
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    But what was the point of deleting the post where I just asked what the difference was between an alternate suggestion and an option*? Unless we can’t allow anyone to see that there may have been an intramoderator fight, but then you should have also deleted the post which I was responding to.

    *I’m not referring to the post in which I provided the link; I’m refering to the one that I posted after that.

    I also wondered but I don’t argue with mods – 29

    in reply to: Totally Random Thread Title Just to Confuse PAA #1061359
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    I forgot to cite my quote from the Rambam. It’s from Shemoneh Perakim chapter 4. (And no, that’s not why I recommended it in the other thread.)

    in reply to: Unclosed Thread #1038916
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    What happens if the two of you disagree how to handle the situation?

    in reply to: Creative writing – CR users in real life! #1067335
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Is that a response to the story, or to the quote which I provided?

    in reply to: Making an ohel in the house #1038911
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    There is plenty of discussion in Taharos about ohel inside an ohel or house and I have yet to see anyone say anything against making one. If there is such an issue, it’s probably kaballah. R’ Shlomo Aviner was asked about it and he said that it’s a superstition:

    “Opening Umbrella Inside

    Q: Is it unlucky to open an umbrella inside

    A: Superstition. (but not to be done on Shabbat, as an umbrella is Muktzeh)”

    in reply to: NeutiquamErro's favorite thread with an obscure title #1147557
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    What were Harry and Ron thinking when they decided to fly the car to school? Obviously if the train already left, Mr. and Mrs. Weasely would be imminently coming back and would figure something out. Did Ron and Harry really think that the Weasely’s would be stuck behind the barrier? Worst comes to worse they could have apparated out. (While Harry might not yet have known about apparition, Ron certainly did.)

    in reply to: Daas Torah #1076828
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Igros Moshe Yoreh Deiah 3:88:

    ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ?????, ????? ?????? ??”? ?”? ???? ???”? ????? ???.

    ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??”? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ??”? ???????? ?????? ?? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??”? ??? ????? ?”? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?”? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?”? ?”? ?? ?????? ??”? ??”? ????? ??????? ?????? ??? ?? ????????? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??’ ????? (????? ?”? ?”?) ??????? ????? ???? ???????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?”? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ?”? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?? ?? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ??”? ??? ?? ?”? ???? ??? ???????? ?”? ??”? ???”? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ??”? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????

    ???’ ???”? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???????? ??? ?? ??? ???

    ?????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??”? ?”? ??”? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ???????? ?? ??????? ?????

    ??? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??????. ????? ??????, ??? ?????????

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Igros Moshe Yoreh Deiah 3:87:

    ??? ??? ???? ??? ???”? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ?? ??”? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ???????? ???????? ????????? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??”? ???????? ?????? ???? ???”? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ???????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????”?

    Interesting fact:

    This teshuvah is addressed to the author of the pamphlet which I quoted R’ Moshe’s haskama to, earlier in this thread.

    in reply to: In Search #1043345
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Also, I think it would depend on how long and how often these learning sessions will be. For example if it’s only a half hour once a week, you wouldn’t want to do something where in the allotted time you barely get anywhere and by the time the next session comes around you have to review what you did the previous session, and you never really get anywhere. In such a situation you would want something that is self-contained where you can do one piece each time like the Pele Yoetz (which you could actually probably do five pieces each time, but I think that the Pele Yoetz is not at all what you’re looking for). But if the sessions are every day or they are significantly long then you wouldn’t really have any limitations in this particular area.

    Do you want something more philosophical, such as Emunah V’deios, Moreh Nevuchim, Chovos Halevavos, etc.? Do you want something from the Rishonim, or from a more recent thinker? Do you want Mussar? Hashkafa? Machshava? Halacha? Lomdus?

    in reply to: Dating Girl Tzniyis Issue #1039780
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Just wondering…

    Vayoel Moshe showed up for about two days and then disappeared and then Viyoel Moishe showed up. Any connection?

    Thanks, didn’t notice on my small phone screen-29

    in reply to: Totally Random Thread Title Just to Confuse PAA #1061358
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    The Rambam actually makes the same point as R’ Chaim. He was discussing how one should not go to either extreme but always take the middle path, and then he mentions that some people would go to extremes but ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ???????? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ??

    And then he says that fools would copy them and gives a mashal to explain why that is foolish:

    ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ?? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ???????

    I.e. what is good for the sick is not good for the healthy.

    I’m not saying that the Rambam would agree to R’ Chaim about mussar (though I’m also not saying that he would disagree). I’m just pointing out that he used the same analogy.

    in reply to: Theological Conundrum (read at your own risk) #1090214
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Even if you don’t agree that it’s more, odu li mihas that it’s at least as intrinsically valuable to fulfill Hashem’s will as your own.

    That’s exactly what I’m asking. Why should Hashem’s will have any intrinsic value?

    in reply to: Theological Conundrum (read at your own risk) #1090213
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    The Rambam is saying that the level of ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? is the shleimus of recognizing, and serving Hashem purely because it is inherently Emes. He grants that this is nearly impossible precisely because it is against the very nature of man to do something if he does not stand to benefit or to lose. And he says that if you don’t serve Hashem ??? ?? ??? ???? ???, you’re just lacking that shleimus, i.e. in terms of reward and punishment you’re no worse off. (In a different translation, in place of ????? it says ??? ???.) So what’s the purpose of attaining the shleimus if it doesn’t get you anything? And to preempt DaasYochid’s answer, if it’s only if you value shleimus then there is in fact no inherent value to shleimus, and it’s just a “do whatever you value”.

    in reply to: Theological Conundrum (read at your own risk) #1090210
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Peirush Hamishnayos L’Harambam Perek Chelek:

    ???? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ???????? ????????

    ??? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????

    ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?’ ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ?’ ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??????

    ???? ???????? ????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???

    ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ????

    ???? ?????

    ????? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ?’ ????? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ?? ??????? ??????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?? ?’ ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???????? ????? ????? ????????? ????????? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????

    ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???

    ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?’ ??? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ?????

    ???? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???????? ???? ?? ?? ??????? ?????? ?? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ???’ ??? ????? ?????

    ???? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ?????

    ????? ???? ??? ????? ?????

    ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ????

    in reply to: Theological Conundrum (read at your own risk) #1090209
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    it’s a hechrech, whereas if it’s only for reward, then it should be optional

    And why shouldn’t it be optional if it’s because it’s the ratzon Hashem?

    in reply to: NeutiquamErro's favorite thread with an obscure title #1147544
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Opting for the semantical route, are we? How do you know that I don’t have part of the soul of a parselmouth in me?

    in reply to: In Search #1043340
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Shemoneh Perakim

    in reply to: NeutiquamErro's favorite thread with an obscure title #1147542
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    edited name, not sure whose – 29

    On page three, Yekke2 mentioned a Harry Potter FanFiction written by Eliezer Yudkowsky. I jokingly referred to him as Yekke2’s friend; I highly doubt they know each other. In Yudkowski’s story, Harry is in Ravenclaw. I apologize for the confusion, and I am glad to see that you are on your toes in protecting against identity revelation.

    Figured as much. I had actually skimmed through but didn’t see it. I happen to know Eliezer but didn’t know about that book. Sounds interesting. – 29

    in reply to: Theological Conundrum (read at your own risk) #1090202
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    So you are agreeing that there is no inherent value in fulfilling Hashem’s ratzon; the only value is if it’s something that you like.

    in reply to: Theological Conundrum (read at your own risk) #1090200
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    If you like reward then do it; if you don’t like reward then don’t do it.

    in reply to: the teshuva thread #1142905
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Ok, I really do believe in Hashem.

    in reply to: NeutiquamErro's favorite thread with an obscure title #1147541
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Because you are so obviously a Ravenclaw! Poppa (resident Slytherin) might be a Parselmouth, but PAA?

    Interesting. I might be the first non-Slytherin to go bad. But given the choice, I probably would want to be in Ravenclaw. Keep in mind though that Harry was a Gryffindor and a Parselmouth

    edited name, not sure whose – 29

    in reply to: Theological Conundrum (read at your own risk) #1090198
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    DaasYochid:

    The intrinsic value of enjoying the reward is the the value of getting enjoyment. If the intrinsic value of ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? is also simply the value of getting enjoyment then there is no intrinsic value to the concept of ??? ?? ??? ???? ???, and it is no different than ?? ??? ???? ???. And if there is intrinsic value to the concept but it doesn’t benefit me, why should I care about the intrinsic value of the concept?

    in reply to: Theological Conundrum (read at your own risk) #1090194
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    DaasYochid:

    Getting and enjoying the reward IS the purpose.

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Mivchar Kesavim p. 186:

    ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???’ ????? ???”? ??? ?”? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????”? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ?????

    in reply to: Theological Conundrum (read at your own risk) #1090190
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    To get the pras.

    in reply to: Theological Conundrum (read at your own risk) #1090187
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Oomis:

    Once there is reward and punishment, I don’t think your explanation works, because if keeping the Torah makes you a better person, it will make you a better person even if you do it ?? ??? ???? ???. And in a theoretical construct where there was no reward and punishment, I would still ask you what the purpose of being a better person is.

    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Rashi Chulin 81a:

    ????? ???. ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??’ ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ??”? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?”? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ?? ????? ??’ ?????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????

    ???’ ????? ??? ???? ???? ???????

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