Forum Replies Created
All the above answers can be correct, but, it is also possible that ywn checked, and could not find anywhere in halacha where it says that there is a distinction to be made between the three weeks/sefirah and the rest of the year, in regards to music.
But if you find one, please let me know
About ksus yoim/lailah, it got me thinking about our tallis katan.
How would you define ksus yoim or ksus lailah? i can think of two contrasting ways:
Simply, ksus yoim is any beged made to be worn by day, and ksus lailah is any beged made to be worn at night.
– this would mean, that is someone had the (strange) minhag to wear pajamas during the day, that would be considered ksus yoim for him (although it is possible that this would only be true if the beged was made specifically for him).
Or, and this is what i think is closer to the truth; ksus yoim means a day beged. A day beged is something that has a couple of purposes, such as to keep you warm, or to protect you from the sun, or to look presentable.
A night beged’s utility is for the night, mainly to keep one comfortable.
If someone wears pajamas during the day, it is still a night beged, and if someone wears a suit to bed, it is still a day beged, by definition.
So, according to the second definition here, where does our tallis katan fit in? Seemingly it is neither, it does not have the function of a night beged, nor does it have the function of a day beged. Since it needs to be a day beged to be chayav, it should be pattur from tzitzis!
Something to think about…
When i am bored on Shabbos, i usually do one of three things:
You’re right, my mistake, it is a machlokes rishonim.
(btw the sugya in shabbos 25: seems to be going that ksus lailah means night time, like the Rambam (at least the way rashi is mefaresh that sugya, don’t know if there might be an alternative pshat))
About the gemara in Shabbos 25: – first of all, that whole story about Rav Yehudahs minhag is not so clear to me. How is he like a Malach Hashem? I would think that it is because he is wearing the white sdinin (white is a color associated with malachim in other places). So what does it have to do with erev shabbos?
Only on erev shabbos he would wear the white sdinin? If so, why?
Maybe it had to do with the rchitzah, perhaps in those days they wouldn’t bathe very often, so when he did the rechitzah on erev shabbos, he became like a malach hashem.
Anyway, i think the simple answer to your question is, he would remove the sdinin that had the kilaim before Shabbos. It does not say in the gemara that he would leave them on, so it could be that he took them off.
Another possibility, that might need to be explored a little more, is that the gemara in Brachos deals with someone who put on the beged bi’issur. Whereas here, the levishah of the beged was biheter.
(it would be a chiddush to say that this should make a difference later on, after the beged is already on, but i still think that it may be possible to draw such a distinction. Since the original levishah was a ‘kum vi’eseh’ issur, that makes the whole levishah, one long kum vieseh levishah of issur. In other words, the maaseh levishah stretches out from when he put it on, until he takes it off.)
many (not sure about all) Chassidim are not makpid on this at all (asei docheh lo sasei maybe?)
maybe the yeshiva world checked and could not find a halachah that says that the three weeks are any different from the rest of the year in regards to music (let me know if you find one though)
This “issue” is hundreds of years old – yawn.
mods you still didn’t tell me why you deleted my other topic (so im walking away with hard feelings).
If you go with the sevara of “it’s a mitzvah it cant hurt you”, then you should also do many other things.
Like not leave your house unless absolutely nessesary, for example, as there are some opinions that hold that the mitzvah of mezuzah is when you are inside the home.
“I am not telling you halacha l’maisah I’m just telling you what I think. I assume that the mitzvah of tzitzis is the same as the mitzvah of tefilin. Were it not for that Rov who went around we might only be putting on tzitzis once a day by Shachris like we do with tefillin today.
Me’ikar hadin we are supposed to wear tefillin all day, but we don’t because of guf naki. But tzitzis doesn’t need guf naki.
That’s all I know.”
Then you know very little about tzitzis, because tzitzis is totally different than tefillin, according to virtually every rishon and every acharon that you’ll find.
About wearing tzitzis at night. There is a ptur on tzitzis at night, see the sugya in shabbos. Some chassidim wear tzitzis at night though, based on kabbalah.
let me rephrase that. Besides for showing who the last poster is, whom the topic was started by should also be shown on the main coffee room page.
mommamia, many people here’s strange idea of “fun” is to write troll comments bashing people for whatever reason. You should not take those comments seriously.
mods is there a rule that you can’t post anything bad about YWN, like in communist russia?
(posted something negative about this site, which is true, and would help people if they knew. But it was deleted by the mods! Even though it was true and helpful, just because it was something that the mods thought was negative about the site.)August 1, 2011 6:47 pm at 6:47 pm in reply to: I saw a printed wallhanging in a Dining Room titled Lachash Ayin Hora #792587
Tamim tehyeh is the best segulah there isAugust 1, 2011 5:59 am at 5:59 am in reply to: Do you size people up when meeting them? How often are you proven wrong? #990619
subconciously, you make judgments about a person from the instant you see them, based on many things, including clothing, hairstyle, body weight, and many other factors.
Ok so apperently it was not him who first said the sevara of many dots. Unless one can be mechalek between electronic writing on a screen, and the writing on a soda cap, in regards to this sevara.)
Anyway, maybe you can ask his son, Rav Chaim, who i know is in Lakewood. Possibly he would know about the shitah of his father.
(btw when you mentioned that your Rav is mater silk screen sifrei torah, i pretty much guessed that it was him, because that is something that he is known for 🙂
Although if what i said helps out a fellow jew to see the path of good, that’s great. If it doesn’t “talk” to you, that’s fine. Seek inspiration elsewhere. I really don’t care. This is certainly not my main goal right now.
observanteen i am not trying to get your approval, and i don’t care for your “approval”. It is your life, do what you will with it.
I only stated my views exactly once here, never saying the same thing about my views twice.
Hope that satiates your “curiousity”.
I just want to clarify about what i meant with the Chayei Adam. The Chayei Adam says that “rov” poskim assur even not ksav ashuris, implying that there are those who are mater it. That’s why i highlighted the word “rov”.
I did not mean to say that he holds that rov poskim hold that ksivah is only ksav ashuris, as that is not so.
Chacham did you look up about boneh not attached to the ground?
It was i who was arrogant to proclaim that you were not happy? Check again.
It was one of you (shlishi) who first said for no reason that i was not happy, which caused me to respond in turn.
You all use sechel? So it wasn’t one of you who actually called me a rasha, for saying that I use sechel? Check again.
(i bear no ill will towards that person btw, because she is obviously very misguided, and does not know any better.)
Try to focus on (the extremely “important” (for lack of a better word) mitzvah of) Ahavas Hashem.
It is one of the greatest feelings in the world.
With Ahavas HaShem, your whole life can become one long interupted service of Hashem. And the “feeling” is divine. Good luck!
Also what do you say to Rav Shlomo Zalman’s sevara, that turning on and off the circuit is no worse then opening and closing a window or door, since it is temporary in nature?
Chacham check up on boneh that is not attached to the ground. I’m pretty sure that you will find it to be a machlokos, if my memory serves me correctly.
Even if we don’t pasken like the shitah that holds that boneh is only when attached to the ground, this will probably be considered a sfek sfekah. Machlokes about boneh, and machlokes if completing a circuit is considered boneh at all, or if it is assur for a different reason.
BTW once we are on the topic of electricity, i think that you will find a tshuvah in the end of Achiezer (Rav Chaim Ozer) that strongly implies that the issur is mederabanan.
I heard the psak about soda caps several years back. I think it was from Rabbi Abadi (who has a large following, but im sure that there are people here that don’t “hold” of him, even though he was appointed by Rav Aharon to be the posek of Lakewood. Anyway you don’t necisserily have to “hold of him” for it to be a limud zechus). I am going to try to ask someone who knows his pesakim better to make sure.
You bring up a good point. How is it different than ink which is made up of tiny molecules as well?
I can think of two sevaros off hand.
1. When you magnify ink, even a billion times, you will see that all the molecules are attached and connected, with no spaces in between. But if you magnify print, you will probably find small gaps and spaces between the dots.
2. It is possible that the end result is the same, but the manner of “ksivah” is different. The printer doesn’t necesserily create the dots in order. For example, for the word “the”. First the printer may put a dot on the bottom of the “e”. Then a dot on the top of the “h”. Then another dot on the bottom of the “t”, etc.
Since it is being written in this “jumbled” manner, where the dots of the letters are being formed out of order, this is not considered ksivah.
But to get the right sevara, it would probably be best to discuss it with the Rav who gave the psak in the first place.
Someone mentioned something about writing on a computer screen, that it is ksav gamur that will later be erased.
That is a very interesting sevara, which can probably have other applications. It gets into the reason behind the din of ksav sheino miskayaim.
But even so, i believe that an image on a computer screen is refreshed hundreds of times a minute, so that may anyway make it ksav sheino miskayaim. Is the Rav who issued that psak aware of this?
(this is definitly the case with the older “fat” screens, and im pretty sure that it is true with the new “thin” screens as well.)
Also, comment editing should not have a time limit. You should always be able to edit your comments
I think that i will try to find a site or sites that caters more to my needs, and that’s where i will be spending my time online. Too bad this couldn’t work out. But if i have an issue specific to the frum community, I may still use this site for that. We shall see.
One last comment in this thread. Zeeskite the Torah isn’t a burden. What misguided people add to the Torah is a burden. Haztlachah Rabbah in all your endeavors! I hope i don’t find myself at the same seder as you, or my beautiful teeth may be in danger! Though i’m sure the dentist won’t mind 😛
Anyway, good luck, and all the best!
(there is one site that i need for my business, which has a very specific audience, that is a rare exception to this rule though. I have several sevaros why this is. But ain kahn mekomo lehaarich 😉 )
Anyway, so many people took this the wrong way. I would probably delete it if i were able. Because my goal here was never to offend anybody chv”sh. Oh well, what can you do.
Shalom everyone, i am pretty much done with this thread, and i apologize to all those who may have been offended along the way! 🙂
You win some, you lose some. Time to move on.
One thing i will say, that this website has some the most cordial and nice people from any that i’ve been on. I haven’t been on many (and no “social networking” sites at all), but you can usually judge from just one or two of the goyish websites, what the rest would be like, i think.
i know people who are makpid on this, and people who are not.
The people that i know who are makpid on this, are makpid on any candle, not just shabbos candles.
I have no idea what the reason/source for this minhag is.
DaasYachad yes, grama is still assur medarabanan, but there are many nafkeh minos between someone who is mechalal shabbos deoyrayseh or derabanan, and there are also nafkeh minos in regards to the issur.
Ok i am not acting out the behavior that i profess to despise. I am not trying here to bring anyone over to my side by making this topic. The discussion here led to that, for reasons not under my control. Someone cast doubts about my view, so i was compelled to demonstrate that it actually has very solid ground even among leading frum Rabbonim today.
However i don’t normally make topics saying things like “You must watch movies or you are an apikoras!” and “You are mechuyav to wear a t shirt when on vacation”.
That is the type of behavior that i condemn, and i do not engage in it.
What i meant by with that comment to haleivi, was that some debate is bound to happen with things the way they are, and the debate will not necessarily be pleasant. That is usually the nature of debate, unless both sides make a supreme effort to avoid it.
Hope that makes everything more clear.
yes halevi, because there is only one coffee room for two distinct groups, such things are bound to happen
About electricity. The reason for the issur of electricity is the matter of much debate. The one that i am most familiar with, is the issue of the spark. I posted something earlier about there not being a spark in devices like cell phones or laptops. I have done some further research into this, and it appears that my first source was mistaken.
Even so, there may be other issues. I don’t really know much about the inner workings of a cell phone. I don’t know when and how the spark is created. In a regular light switch, it happens the instant you flip the switch and complete the circuit. It is possible, from my perspective of relative unfamiliarity with the workings of a phone, that the spark is a grama.
I don’t know if that makes it mutar, but it certainly makes it much less of a chilul shabbos.
I think that the other main shita, besides for those that hold that electricity is derabonon, is that since a light or a fan is attached to the house, by completing the circuit you are doing boneh.
This definitely would not apply to a cell phone, which is not connected to the house (even a connection with a charger i don’t think is a connection for this, because when you turn on the phone you are completing a circuit that is wholly within the phone, and is still not connected to the house. That would be for using the phone while it is plugged into the charger. As for plugging the phone into a charger that is connected to the wall, i don’t know how that circuit works.)
Again, i have never really studied the issue/sugya of electricity on shabbos at length, in a concentrated manner. Those who did would probably be able to find various issues with this comment, whether leheter, or li’issur. But “Kach hie darkah shel torah…”
I will explain more about “maashe ksivah”
For some things, you need a “maaseh ksivah” which means to actually write out the letters. For example, the Halachah of “chuk tochos” that you are probably familiar with.
I think that it is pashut that this is no better than chuk tochos. You are causing a letter to form on a screen, but only by a roundabout way (causing the circuits in the chip in the phone to align in the right way etc.). That is why chuk tochos is not ksivah (letter was formed in roundabout way). This is no better.
Whether or not Shabbos needs a “maaseh ksivah”, like i said, the Ran holds that it doesn’t, but i think that there are those that hold that it does (if not it probably wouldn’t be known in the “yeshiva world” as “the Ran’s chiddush”). But of this i am not certain, as i am not actually learning the sugya at the present time.
I can’t go into everything at length here, but just briefly:
“The poskim say as a davar pashut that a printing press is kesivah mid’oraisa.”
I highly doubt it. If that were the case, our Sifrei Torah would be written using a printing press. (leshmah and maaseh ksivah have the same parameters b’pashtus. If it is a maaseh ksivah, which means it is like writing by hand with a quill, then it is enough for leshmah as well.)
I acknowledged that it is derabanan. But it would still help out when being metztaraf other reasons that could render it a sefak (machlokos rishonim usually has the din of a safek), or a shvus deshvus.
And here you actually “helped out” the tzad for heter, by bringing up another issue: it is ksav shaeno miskayam al gabay davar sheino miskayam. You allude that this is a mechlokos, which gives more room for a tziruf leheter with other issues.
3. I fail to see the similarity. Ksav sheino miskayam is full %100 ksav, only it will be erased. Ksav made up of many little dots, is, according to some opinions, not ksav at all
(the practical application is soda cap dates and numbers. I am not saying that you should take on this heter personnaly, but when we are deciding whether or not these people are not considered jewish for many things, and someone even brought up yayin nesech, I think that this should definitely be taken into consideration.)
4. I believe that it is the shita of Rishonim that one is only chayav for ksav ashuris. See the Chayei Adam shabbos 37:5 (“rov” poskim etc.)
The sugya of grama is too wide and deep to go into at length here.
If i am correct that there are rishonim who hold that you need a “maaseh ksivah” for hilchos shabbos (notably the Ran is of the opinion that maaseh ksivah is only a din in Hilchos sefer torah, but i think that this is a chiddush of the Ran that not everyone agrees with), then you have a pretty clear heter already: it is for sure not more than a derabonon because it is ano miskayaim, and these rishonim would make it a safek derabonon between them and the Ran.
That is just one way that these reasons can be used in tandem to find a heter, using the first sevara.
(btw, i am not sure that i used the word “metztaraf” here the way it is used by the more recent poskim. I only meant that by using two sevaros together, there might be a heter to be found, in some way…)
Anyway it was an enjoyable discussion 🙂
Due to time issues, i may or may not be able to respond, if you respond again to this.
To me, a chassid is something in the heart and soul. I really don’t know what the “lange rekel” has to do with it. I guess you are signifying to others that you ascribe to the philosophy?
Or, one element of chassidus is the “am hashem”. Chassidus attempts to make jews into a distinct nation, with a distinct language, and mode of dress. Therefore they wear the “lange rekel”. They don’t seem to care to much about a distinct land though, generally speaking.
Whatever the case, i still beleive that chassidus is a philosophy, and a way of life. I don’t attach much importance to the “levush”, but its a nice detail, IMO.
google didn’t help any for this
“”As do many of the comments of the chassidish/super frum who are trying to impose their twisted world view onto everyone else. Give it up. You are NOT doing a mitzvah, and you are not doing G-ds will. G-d wants us to lead happy, normal lives. Be normal”
Look who’s “imposing their twisted world view onto everyone else” now.”
So you are telling me that the idea of “be normal”, which, if you for some reason feel needs support, i heard from the Rosh Yeshiva of a large yeshiva, who has a very large following among the most frum people that you would ever meet, who has both a strong chassidish backround, and a strong yeshiva backround (was chavrusas with many Gdolim in Eretz Yisroel etc.). And he says this idea of “be normal” to his talmidim many times. And you feel that this is imposing on you something not kosher?
Do you think that hashem wants us to live a crazy not normal life? Do you think that he would punish us all, old and young, who have never done wrong, alike, with such a harsh thing?
Sechel says not like you, and if for some strange reason you cannot use your own sechel that G-d gave you, Gdolim say not like you.
There are also mekoros for this in halacha, if that’s what you need to see sense, in the halachos of not wearing clothing inside out, or talmid chacham sheyish lo revav al bigdo chayav misa, and others
yes i am heavily outvoted, because some people are afraid to support this suggestion, for fear that they will be “bashed” by other people for not being frum enough or something. If everyone would feel free to speak their minds, this suggestion would probably have a lot more support.
Listen im sorry if i insulted anyone, because that really wasn’t the point here.
I just usually tend to be very outspoken about my views, and i was trying to define the two groups in a way that was clear and understandable.
That is the way i see you, from my point of view
shlishi you can’t be medayak in this guys words like he is a Rishon.
He is clearly contrasting a physical switch and an electronic switch, in that one creates a spark, and one does not. If you look at his answer holistically, this is apparent.
Chein i didn’t say that expressing an opinion about movies is repulsive. I said that i find certain kinds of topics to be repulsive.
guys how does editing work. i see that some of my comments can’t be edited anymore. is there a time limit?
if there is, that would be one advantage of deletion. also, when you erase an entire comment with an edit, it looks funny, just a name, and no comment.
ok ok, why is almost everyone here nitpicking on something that has nothing to do with the topic? If you don’t like the way i catergorized the two groups, label it however you want. Call the super frum “normal”, and the normal something else. It doesn’t matter to me, for the purposes of this suggestion.
But the point is that there are two groups on this site, and making a second parralel coffee room would be of great benefit to everyone, IMHO.
insulting details???? “veering” towards loshon hara?????
are we talking about the same comment? I really have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, sorry
the very phrase “veering towards lh” doesn’t even make any sense to begin with. Either it is l”h, or it is not
WIY, since you are from the “annoyers”, and not the “annoyees”, you think that this isn’t a serious suggestion, because you don’t see the problem, since you don’t get ticked off by any of the crazy and insane topics here. You like “oy vey” topics.
But to many, these are repulsive
divorce is a healthy normal thing that should be done as needed.
The problem is that there is such a stigma about it in the frum community, and for no reason
about ksivah, there are many issues. To name but a few offhand:
There is no “maaseh ksivah”.
The writing does not last (derabanan, and combined with other things could be muttar because of shvus dshvus and/or safek derabanan)
Writing on a computer or cell phone screen is actually made of of thousands of tiny dots. According to some, this is not considered writing.
According to some kosev is only with ksav ashuris
When you are mitztaref these various reasons you can come up with a heter.
Another thing, it might be a gramma since pushing the button causes a chain reaction in the phone, first the signal is sent to the computer within the phone, then it is sent to another part of the computer, the output, then from the output to the screen input, and finally to the screen itself. So many steps happen, which could be considered gramma.
“Well, according to many the reason for the issur of electricity is that it produces a spark. I am pretty sure that when using a device like a laptop computer or cell phone, no spark is produced.
Maybe people who text on Shabbos feel this way.
(the spark is produced by flipping a switch and completing a circuit. Cell phones don’t work that way, I think.)”
Bob said to ask a rabbi. Bob, i ask a rabbi a question i have in torah or halacha, not a question i have in electricity. Rabbis aren’t electricians.
I found the question on a website where they have people who are knowledgeble of the subject of electricity answering questions. Here are two answers that i found:
“Electronic switches produce no spark”
“1. Light switches actually connects a circuit PHYSICALLY. This can create a spark. You cann test this at night, slowly move a light switch on (try to get it right in the middle). You will see sparks at the switch as it connects the circuit.
2. Modern computers and electronics use an ELECTRONIC circuit to connect the the power, so there is not a physical on/off. When you press the power button a microchip connects the power without a significant spark”
I am not allowed to post the link here, but they are clearly saying that there is no spark in an electronic circuit used in computers and other electronics
wiy i really don’t care because i don’t watch movies for their reltionship stories. I don’t even pay attention at all to the relationship sub plots.