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Sam2Participant
Curiosity: But even with your definition of Hashkafa, everyone should be able to agree, since it’s all about how you treat the “R’shus” in life, that every Halachah-observant Hashkafa is equally legitimate. People no longer have the ability to say, “That’s okay, but it’s just not for me.” And this causes tremendous problems. I have no problem with having a Hashkafa. I’m sure if someone dissected everything that I did that they could find a “Hashkafa” for me as well. But I think you are fooling yourself a little if you think that that’s how and why people use “Hashkafos”. What you say is fine and true in theory. But that’s just not how it’s used in the real world.
Sam2ParticipantOomis: The Halachah is that anything that is Yotzei from a Treifah (eggs, milk, etc.) has the Halachic status of a Treifah.
Sam2ParticipantIt certainly won’t be good for your son’s Chinuch if he sees you and your wife fighting over taking him to Davening, regardless of what time it is.
Sam2Participantmw13: You are ignoring an entire Sugya about what constitutes Sh’eilas Shalom. Most of the Poskim (maybe even all nowadays) hold that M’ikar Hadin it’s Muttar to say hello to someone in a bathroom because that’s not called Sh’eilas Shalom (yes, I know the M”B has a Midas Chassidus for men to never talk in a bathroom at all).
Naftush: I won’t discuss the Rama at length because people here would call me a Sheigetz for it (I know, it’s only a Rama, right?), but yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying he says. It contains a Kula, certainly. But there is a Chumra that comes along with it (although to be fair, the Mechaber would probably agree to this Chumra as well).
Sam2ParticipantCuriosity: No. None of those issues (or any other that can be thought of) exist outside of Halachah. D’kulo Bah. You can find the answer to all of these in Torah. And yes, it could be that the Halachah is “Muttar” to wear colored shirts but a Yeshivah or institution will decide to have a dress code where they only choose certain colored clothes. Do you C”V think that when R’ Ovadia Paskened that “land for peace” was acceptable that it was out of political or personal feelings, or even out of a very well-educated guess (which is really what your definition of Da’as Torah in this case turns it into) as to what’s right? Of course not. He knows Torah and found a Ra’aya in Torah. It was a Halachic decision. Just like the current Gedolim’s struggle to re-work the Tal Law comes out of their knowledge of Torah. B”H every question, whether minute or huge, has an answer in Halachah. Every tiny detail of our life can be found there. There is no room for any outside considerations, even if we hide them under the guise of “Haskafa”, to override that.
So if you really want to say that “Hashkafa” comprises of how we decide to treat the areas of Halachah that are Muttarim but not Chiyuvim, I can’t disagree with you. But that’s not at all how people use the word.
Sam2ParticipantCharrybim: I read that story once years ago and tears spring to my eyes whenever I recall it. But I haven’t been able to find it again. Can you give me the source please? Thank you so much.
Sam2ParticipantMommamia: What’s there to be scared of? HKBH, Torah, Mitzvos, and Kriyas Shma Al Hamitah protect us. (But if you’re really scared you can always hold like the Rambam that they never existed or the Gra that they no longer exist.)
Sam2ParticipantCuriosity: In a nutshell-R’ Schachter points out that there are two types of Torah-Agaddah and Halachah. Most people (even the Tannaim and Amoraim) concentrate on one. R’ Schachter points out that the Gemara mentions that some Amoraim only learned in the Beis Medrash of Agaddah. And we see this throughout the ages. All of the Gedolim and Poskim had some sort of Agaddah to go with their Halachah-whether it was philosophy, Kaballah, Chassidus, quasi-Chassidus, Mussar, etc. So Agaddah is the parts of Torah that talk about the world, our relationship to HKBH, HKBH’s relationship to the world, etc. From those types of things we have Hashkafa. Hashkafa means an outlook on the world that is from a different Chelek of Torah than Halachah (you can exchange the words Nigleh and Nistar for Halachah and Agaddah during this entire discussion).
But the word “Hashkafa” as used nowadays is meaningless. It is an excuse that people make up. Because everything that someone has a “Hashkafa” on nowadays is a Halchic issue. And removing the Halachah from the issue and instituting a “Hashkafa” instead is wrong and destructive (and probably M’galeh Ponim Batorah Shelo K’halachah and therefore Apikorsus). How to deal with Yom Ha’atzma’ut is a Halachic Sugya. Everything can be found in the Gemara, and this is no exception. The issue of the Heter M’chirah is a Halachic Sugya. Going to college is a Halachic Sugya. Chalav Yisrael is a Halachic Sugya. Etc, etc. But people instead say (and this is what they’re saying, whether they explicitly state it that way or not), “I don’t care what the actual Halachah is. I want to be Meikel or Machmir on this issue and therefore I’m going to make a ‘Hashkafa’ out of it. My ‘Hashkafa’ is to avoid the Medinah and therefore Heter M’chirah is Assur, regardless of what the Sugya says. Or my ‘Hashkafa’ is that movies are okay, and therefore I’m going to watch things that Halachah might tell me are Assur to see.’ It’s doing what “feels right”, not doing what Halachah says, which is not what Orthodox Judaism is. It pigeonholes people into doing Halachic things that they might not think Halachically. Why can’t I not like the Medinah, why can’t I think it’s not such a good thing, yet at the same time be compelled by the Sugya to say Hallel on Yom Ha’atzma’ut? Why can’t I like the Medinah but think that the Beis HaLeivi and the Aruch Hashulchan are right and that Shmittah Bizman Hazeh is D’oraisa and therefore feel that the Heter M’chirah is untenable no matter how it’s done? It forces Halachic opinions on people because of unrelated Halachic opinions, all under the guise of a so-called “Hashkafa”.
Or, the other popular use of the word “Hashkafa” is just as meaningless and even more destructive. I constantly challenge people here to give a definition of “Modern Orthodox”, not only to prove that what many people think of “MO” is just inaccurate, but also to show that it’s meaningless because it’s undefinable. At best, some people have given a list of Halachic tendencies (or just plain bashing, but that’s not the point here) that often go together in left-wing circles (for want of a better phrase). All “Hashkafa” is in those types of conversations is a means of saying, “I’m better than you”. Someone might think that the “Chareidi” lifestyle can’t last, or that it’s a distortion of what the Torah wants, or are just jealous or afraid and therefore use the word “Chareidi” or “Yeshivish” as an insult to say that he or she is better than those people. Or someone will see someone else who is less Machmir than themselves and therefore they call them “Modern” because that shows that they are so much better. A quote I saw on here about a year ago said it best: “Everyone to the right of me is an extremist and everyone to the left isn’t Frum.” It’s a credo that people live by out of misplaced self-righteousness, insecurity, or just plain old self-absorption and, quite frankly, it’s disgusting. Everyone feels the need to validate themselves and the best way to do that is to invalidate everyone else. And it’s all done under the guise of “Hashkafa”.
So does Hashkafa exist? Of course. We have our Aggaddah. We have our Nistar. We have the Chalakim in Torah that don’t deal in Halachic issues. But what people commonly refer to as “Hashkafa” is meaningless and destructive.
Sam2ParticipantWIY: Ad’raba. We should work on it so that Mashiach can come that way. Because if it doesn’t then it would be very bad for K’lal Yisrael.
August 16, 2012 3:43 am at 3:43 am in reply to: What is the purpose of those twist tops on certain pot covers? #891557Sam2ParticipantProbably to allow the pot to vent some steam, so the liquid does not boil over.
That’s probably cheaper than a psychiatrist too. 🙂
Sam2ParticipantWIY: It is kind of sad. Why can’t you just say Good Shabbos as you walk by? You don’t need a whole conversation. Just two words from each person. I feel like that’s what happens everywhere I see.
Sam2ParticipantChacham: I’ll take a look at the P”M when I get a chance. I just remember thinking that the M”A held that way when I learned him on Hilchos R”H. I don’t know what others say on him. (I didn’t learn those Halachos so well so I could be mixing things up.)
Sam2ParticipantChacham: Doesn’t the Magen Avraham hold like R’ Hai? So it could be he only says that because you’d still be Yotzei Mid’oraisa, and not just a Safek if you’re Yotzei Mid’oraisa.
Sam2ParticipantHaLeiVi: That, I do not know. I heard this story from my father while we were learning Brachos together when I was very young (somewhere between 10 and 14, I don’t quite remember).
Sam2ParticipantKasher: Yes, but they both give their stamp of approval to the OUD on Chalav Stam. Eating/drinking what’s Muttar to eat/drink doesn’t make you a “Ba’al Taive”.
Sam2ParticipantHolyMoe: If you are going to go that route then you need to hold like R’ Schachter. Because even in the Chalav Yisrael farms it doesn’t change the fact that more than 1.6% of cows are naturally Triefos. So you’d be violating an Issur (an Issur Asei actually, if I recall what R’ Schachter said correctly, but close enough) D’Oraisa whenever you have Chalav Yisrael products as well.
(And doesn’t R’ Belsky have a piece explaining why those aren’t an issue and why the OU can certify Chalav Stam without worrying about that?)
Sam2ParticipantRebRY: Excuse for? Need? R’ Moshe says it’s Muttar. Why would I need an excuse to do something Muttar?
Sam2ParticipantWIY: Ahavas Yisrael brings Mashiach, not vice versa.
Sam2ParticipantThere was a story 30 years ago in YU about a guy who tried it and went crazy because he saw that Sheidim are everywhere.
Sam2ParticipantOld man: Thank you. I appreciate the input. And I very specifically said that there is no Kedusha in the state. I would never deny Kedushas Ha’aretz. I spent a very long time working out what the Rishonim hold on Kedusha Rishona, Kedushas Mechitzos, and whatever other types of Kedushas Ha’aretz some might hold exist. I was just getting very frustrated with certain posters’ obvious attempts at angering those who hold differently about the Medinah than them. And if you recall from some of my other threads, I think “Hashkafa”, as most people use it, is just an excuse to ignore Halachah, bash other Jews, or both. But it was nice to hear from you and thank you for your advice (I was Zoche to spend a bit of time learning in Israel, during which I believe I learned a lot and was able to personally speak to several of the Gedolim about things-some Halachic, some personal).
Sam2ParticipantNaftush: Actually, he’s sort of right. The Rama in this Siman does say “Hakol L’sheim Shamayim”.
August 15, 2012 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm in reply to: Why was the National Anthem or G-D Bless Ameirica not sung by Siyum Hashas? #893772Sam2ParticipantAnd he says the reason that politics and peaceful dismantling will not work is – Divrei Yoel Parshas Bo p.250 – because the Arabs do not distinguish between one type of Jew and another, unfortunately.
I really, really hope that Englishman said that last line on his own or that it’s a misrepresentation, because the implication is absolutely chilling.
Sam2Participant2scents: That is true. I don’t disagree with that (except maybe to make exceptions for outdoor activities where a skirt wouldn’t suffice and only then if the pants are very loose; I’d have to look over those sections of Even Haezer before saying that with any confidence though).
Sam2ParticipantWIY: I don’t want to get into this again. Let’s just say that in some communities (mostly out-of-town) it is impossible for the men and women not to interact, at least on a minimal level. Thus, not saying “Good Shabbos” would be a tremendous insult and a violation of being Makdim Shalom to someone else. In other places, it would be Assur to wish a “Good Shabbos”.
I once heard a very good explanation for “Al Tarbeh Sichah” by a very Chareidi Rosh Kollel who had just spent a week visiting relatives in a small community. He says the Lashon is “Al Tarbeh”. So first, you have to be normal. You have to talk as much as is normally accepted wherever you are (which, he said, should never be more than “Hello”, “how are you doing”, “how are the kids”, etc. in a Frum place). And after you have reached the normal level of passing conversation, “Al Tirbeh” (and then he went on a long discussion of whether “Al Tirbeh” means Kipshuto or whether it means nothing at all and connected it to the Machlokes Rishonim about what M’ma’atim B’simcha during the nine days means.)
Sam2ParticipantShlishi: I don’t disagree that most Poskim seem to Asser it. But the job of a Rov is to look at the situation and think about things. Perhaps the Rabbi will think about something that she (or you) didn’t? What if the man she meets is black and the next Orthodox Jewish woman that comes by was given a P’sak that it’s okay for work to shake hands, then he (and everyone else) might think that she really avoided him because he was black and it might C”V create a Chillul Hashem because they will think that all (or many) Orthodox Jews are racist? That’s why everything requires thought and deliberation by a Rav who knows the situation. I do agree, though, that handshakes should be avoided if at all possible (I have quoted R’ Schachter on this here several times before, I think).
Sam2ParticipantAvi: Give it a rest. Even if you hold it’s fulfilling a Mitzvah there would still be no Kedusha in the state. That’s not what Kedusha means. And denying that there are those secular Israelis who want to see the end of Frumkeit (or at least serious Torah learning and Shabbos and stuff; I don’t think they care if we shake a Lulav or not) is just denying reality. Just like thinking that every secular Israeli wants that is plain not true.
Sam2ParticipantShlishi: He said to ask her Rov. If her Rov would say to shake hands then who are you (or Avi) to tell her not to?
Sam2ParticipantIt depends where you are. If it’s in a place where that’s expected, then it’s probably Assur not to. If it’s in a place where it’s expected not to, then it’s probably Assur to do it.
Sam2Participantmw13: The only people who can make a Syag are the undisputed leaders of the generation on everybody or an individual can chose to abstain from something himself (see, however, what the Aggadic Sefarim say about the Nazir V’yeish L’yashev B’arichus). However, when someone unilaterally imposes a Chumra on others is when we get the lesson from the story of the Nachash. The difference should be fairly clear.
Sam2ParticipantQ: “Do you consider yourself a Zionist?”
A: “If Zionism refers to a technical concept or to belonging to some established body, then I am not part of it, though I am formally a member of the Mizrachi and I pay dues. If, however, Zionism represents love of the Jewish people and devotion to Eretz Yisroel as the land of our forefathers – then I certainly am a Zionist. From my early childhood, my father z”l studied with me the areas of zeraim, hilchos terumos uma’aseros, matnos aniyim u’bikurim. The concepts of the kedushas ha’aretz, the tum’ah of chutz la’aretz, the temporary or permanent sanctification of the land are deeply rooted in my heart……”
This.
Sam2ParticipantReady now: Where does the Shulchan Aruch say that women can’t wear pants? The question wasn’t Shayach until much less than 100 years ago. And I brought down where the SH”A says the exact opposite of the Rashba without even mentioning it (YD 182:1). Saying that the Rashba wasn’t rejected is just false.
Sam2ParticipantReady now: I think I will say something to Rabbi Abromowitz when I get a chance. There really is no reason to quote a Tshuvas Harashba L’halachah L’ma’aseh once it was completely rejected by the Shulchan Aruch and Rama. We don’t Pasken like that Rashba.
I’m not trying to say that pants are Muttar to wear. It’s clearly been accepted as something that isn’t done the vast majority of the time. I was just trying to prove that your comment that “all pants” was not 100% accurate as some Poskim are Mattir very loose pants (which many rely on in outdoor situations where a skirt will not be enough-e.g. rock climbing). It is also clear, though, that from the accepted P’sak of the Shulchan Aruch there is no issue whatsoever of Begged Ish for a woman to wear pants. That Rashba is a good Mareh Makom, but it was completely rejected L’ma’aseh.
Sam2ParticipantIt’s not explicitly mentioned in Halachah so it’s solely a communal issue.
Sam2ParticipantI saw about those a week ago. Honestly, so long as they can be proven not to cause headaches/migraines/neurological problems, they’re not a bad idea under certain situations.
Sam2ParticipantSyag and WIY: It was a small-town ice cream shop I was told to go to while traveling through the midwest once.
Sam2ParticipantFeif: Well, Rav Schachter might…
(He’s never really given a straight answer on why he doesn’t withdraw his authority from behind any OU dairy Hecsher, as far as I know.)
Sam2ParticipantMommamia: I happened to see someone with a Swiss Army watch today and looked at the symbol. Pashtus is that that cross has Christian origins and could very well be problematic.
Sam2ParticipantShopping: No. The Rabbi is wrong. Even if you hold that a smartphone is absolutely Assur to use it is not Assur B’hana’ah. Therefore it has value to someone who owns it, even if he is not permitted to use it. He could sell it or even make it into a very expensive paperweight. A Rabbi who tells someone that they are allowed to be Mazik is Chayav to pay (the person listening to the Rabbi is an Annus). Therefore, the Rabbi would have to reimburse anyone who had his phone damaged because of this “p’sak”. (I heard about 10 years ago that R’ Elyashiv had a similar Shaila where a Ba’al T’shuvah threw his parents’ television set out the window and R’ Elyashiv said he was Chayav to pay because it’s not Assur B’hana’ah.)
Sam2ParticipantDer Rav: In many places it’s still almost impossible to find and there were a few companies that sold a lot of Chalav Yisrael milk in the New York area 50 years ago.
Sam2ParticipantI’d answer, but no one here would know what it is anyway.
Sam2ParticipantSyag: If you say that it’s been completely Nifsal Mei’achilah then it would no longer even be Treif (if it was from a non-Kosher animal) nor dairy.
Sam2Participant“I’m very sorry, but Orthodox Jews don’t touch members of the opposite sex” usually works.
Sam2ParticipantReady now: You are being slightly disingenuous as that is not the precise case the Rashba is talking about. It’s a good Mareh Makom though. Unfortunately, the Shulchan Aruch (YD 182:1) rejects this Rashba, and the Rama rejects it so strongly as to say that what the Rashba Assers is even Muttar L’chatchilah. So bringing it down for a P’sak is just misleading.
Sam2ParticipantCuriosity: You would still need to be Mefaret. We don’t use the R”H Hataras Nedarim to actually be Mattir any specific Nedarim.
Sam2ParticipantSL1: Because eating Chalav Stam would require being Matir Neder, which no longer wearing black and white wouldn’t. So it’s certainly a bigger deal.
Sam2ParticipantReady now: Where is this Rashba?
Sam2ParticipantShopping: I certainly hope that no one said that. If he did, that Rabbi would be obligated to reimburse anyone whose phone was smashed by a follower of his.
Sam2ParticipantA Mashgiach Nichnas V’oytzei is enough M’ikar Hadin. Some communities can afford to say that they will only eat somewhere with a Mashgiach T’midi. It is improper to go against community standards even if they are not completely necessary M’ikar Hadin. I have no idea what the prevalent custom is in whatever area of New York that you’re referring to.
Sam2ParticipantShmoel: That’s… an interesting theory. I’m not sure why the Goyish name of a city that takes after the Goyish name of a city would have any bearing on why so many Jews live there. Isn’t it much more likely that it is because it was the biggest and closest metropolis in America when most Jews emigrated? Or are you saying that the city of New York was Zoche to have Torah in it because they were named after a city that slaughtered all of its Jews nearly a milenium ago?
Sam2ParticipantCuriosity: No, I actually do do one of the things on your list. Which means that golfer might know me if that’s what he was referring to.
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