simcha613

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  • in reply to: Gedolei Torah and Municipal Elections #2263778
    simcha613
    Participant

    Avira- I think I downplayed the role of Yiras Shanayin to make a point… That Yiras Shanayin is not the only criteria that makes one a good politician or mayor. And that’s besides the point that it is impossible to really know which politician is more of a yirash Shanayin than the others.

    in reply to: Gedolei Torah and Municipal Elections #2263779
    simcha613
    Participant

    In these elections, no one is frei. Three are Charedi and one is Dati Leumi.

    in reply to: Gedolei Torah and Municipal Elections #2263657
    simcha613
    Participant

    Avira- as far as I can tell, the Gedolim have not personally met the candidates. So it’s hard to imagine that they can conclude that one candidate is better than another without meeting the candidates, learning about the issues, and making an informed decision. It’s possible the Gedolim have met with all the candidates, but I have a feeling it would have been publicized and as far as I know, not a single person is making that claim.

    in reply to: Gedolei Torah and Municipal Elections #2263650
    simcha613
    Participant

    UJM- First of all, Charedi doesn’t necessarily mean Yirei Shamayim, and non-Charedi doesn’t mean not a Yirei Shamayim. Secondly, that’s not even true… is a Yirei Shamayim who didn’t go to medical school a better doctor than a non-Yirei Shamayim medical professional? Would you go to your Yirei Shamayim neighbor for legal advice because the local lawyer is not one? Politics is also a combination of skill, experience, and talent. Sure, Yiras Shamayim adds to a candidate, just like it can add to any field, but it is not the only qualification, and probably not even one of the most important ones.

    in reply to: what’s the yichus of yichus? #2249277
    simcha613
    Participant

    As my rebbe says- yichus is like a bunch of zeros. If you’re also a zero, then you just have a string of zeros. But if you’re a 1, and you put that in front of your string of yichus zeros, then you’re ten, or a hundred, or a thousand. Yichus enhances a tzadik, but it doesn’t create one.

    in reply to: Why isn’t Everyone a Gaon? #2235632
    simcha613
    Participant

    Whenever there is kedushah, there is tumah to balance it out. Nevuah came with a ta’avah for avodah zarah. The plethora of Torah comes with additional distractions and worse of the internet. Becoming a Gaon is still a challenge, to access the good while weeding out the bad… it will never be easy to be gaon, even if the challenges of today differ significantly from the challenges of yesteryear.

    in reply to: You who vote Democrat #2230112
    simcha613
    Participant

    Lakewhut- I’m no Democrat but stop making this political. We have enemies on both sides of the aisle. Both parties have good players and bad players. Both parties have policies that are in line with Torah and out of line with Torah. The Torah does not dictate one or the other. Our enemy is Hamas. Our enemy is those who want to kill us and destroy our land. It’s not the Republicans, it’s not the Democrats, and it’s certainly not fellow Jews who don’t see eye to eye with you on politics. We are one people with many different opinions but let’s remember that we ALL stand together.

    in reply to: Daas Torah for Gashmius #2214306
    simcha613
    Participant

    I understand Da’as Torah a bit differently and I think there are two related points when seeking Torah advice for non halachic issues:

    1- the Torah can give a perspective on all areas of life, not just halacha and psak. Hafoch bah vehafoch bah dekula bah. However, that assumes that the Da’as Torah giving advice is also knowledgeable in that area. Da’as Torah is like a calculator- it will give you the right answer but only if you input the right information. If the Rav does not understand financial matters (for example), then his Torah perspective on the subject will be flawed because the “input” is incorrect.

    2- I think there are two aspects of Avodas Hashem- objective and subjective. Objective is halacha- we have to follow halacha and we have to follow the psak of our Rabbonim. But so many aspects of our life are not directly and explicitly dictated by halacha- that doesn’t mean we are exempt from trying to do ratzon Hashem in those areas as well. But what ratzon Hashem is in those areas are affected by each person- his personality, situation in life, challenges, family, etc… Two people can be engaged in the same situation, and the Ratzon Hashem will be different. Getting a Torah perspective from Da’as Torah in these areas is crucial, but the Da’as Torah is still lacking the personal subjective side that only each individual person knows. Ultimately, even after getting a Torah perspective, the decision rests on the individual himself how to apply that to his situation and ensure he is doing Ratzon Hashem. No Rav can tell him that.

    As an addendum to number 2- I think there is a great risk to relying on Da’as Torah blindly without factoring in our individuality. Oftentimes, when someone who doesn’t consult Rabbonim on serious, complex, and controversial issues… that person will make whatever decision he feels is best, but will usually feel some sort of guilt as there will be consequences to that decision. Nothing is ever black and white, and they will accept accountability for their decision. But I find that oftentimes, when someone blindly follows Daas Torah, they will view every situation as black and white, and they will ignore the repercussions of their decision. Even correct decisions come with consequences, and part of healthy growth is accepting responsibility and accountability for those decisions. I sometimes feel that relying on Daas Torah is a crutch for many people to dump the accountability to the Rav who is advising them, so they can mentally ignore any adverse consequences to their decision.

    simcha613
    Participant

    Avira- I agree with you that the Torah is teaching us that tragedies happen for a reason, and that we have to do the cheshbon hanefesh to correct ourselves in wake of these tragedies. I just find that more often than not, people use that argument as a way to blame others for the tragedy without looking inward. The anti-Zionists blame the Holocaust on the embrace of other Jews to secular nationalism, while the Zionists blame the Holocaust on those who were blind to the national return to our homeland. Each side conviniently washing away blame from themselves.

    Seems like that’s what’s happening here too…you and UJM subscribe to a more anti-philosophical hashkafa and surprise! it’s those other pro-philosophy Jews who are to blame for the expulsion. Of course a cheshbon hanefesh has to be done in wake of a tragedy… the Torah says so! But that’s for those other Jews who are actually to blame, right?

    in reply to: Is there a greater meaning to the Titan accident? #2202871
    simcha613
    Participant

    The lesson is not to ignore safety protocols.

    in reply to: Grocery that gets rid of all Chometz before Pesach #2199921
    simcha613
    Participant

    Smiler- I guess the way I look at it, is that it is Ratzon HaShem to do business with other Jews. Now, there are heterim when it comes to price and quality which, depending on the situation, it’s perfectly fine to rely on… but one cannot say they are fulfilling ratzon Hashem by not doing business with the Jew. They have their own cheshbonos on at what point to choose quality and price, which is perfectly in line with halacha, and it’s not our place to judge. Those who are machmir and willing to sacrifcie quality and price are almost certainly going lifnei mishuras hadin and fulfillinf ratzon HaShem.

    Now, in your case, you aren’t sacrificing the Ratzon HaShem of doing business with Jews for gashmiyus, you are doing it for ruchniyus purposes. Which on the one hand sounds noble, but to me, it sounds a little misplace. Because you are sacrificing the Ratzon HaShem that is actually in the Torah, for a different potential Raton HaShem- not benefitting from a questionable mechira that almost all Rabbonim rely on. So, on the one hand, your chumra is a good one, in a vaccum… and it can seem like a better excuse to not buy from Jews that those who use gashmiyus… but how did you make that cheshbon that the ratzon Hashem of not relying on a sale is more important than the Ratzon Hashem of doing business with and supporting other Jews?

    in reply to: Girls only kosher hangout #2199620
    simcha613
    Participant

    UJM- “Hangout and frum are contradictions to each other. Especially for girls.”

    I would think especially for boys. Boys have a chiyuv Talmud Torah. There is no such thing as free time.

    But girls, especially if they’re single, should have far more free time than any Ben Torah should. Hanging out with friends in a kosher setting seems enjoyable and appropriate.

    in reply to: More than One Type of Toeiva #2196989
    simcha613
    Participant

    It’s also interesting that the Torah doesn’t call the LGBT person a toeivah, it calls the act a toeivah. But when it comes to dishonest business practices, the Torah calls the person himself a toeivah

    in reply to: Bridging the Gap Between The Torah World and MO #2196480
    simcha613
    Participant

    Avira- I’ll let the mods decide which Rabbonim no longer belong on a Torah forum. It seems like they may disagree with you.

    in reply to: Bridging the Gap Between The Torah World and MO #2196416
    simcha613
    Participant

    R’ Melamed rules similarly when it comes to Masseh Shabbos. It wouldn’t be a problem of Maaseh Shabbos to benefit from someone doing something that you treat as prohibited, as long as they have a reliable psak that it’s permitted:

    “כאשר מי שנוהג כשולחן ערוך או הרמ”א מתארח אצל תימני שנוהג כרמב”ם, מותר לו לאכול מן המרק שהוציא המארח מהמקרר וחיממו. שהואיל והמארח נהג כהלכה על פי מנהגו, מותר לכל יהודי לאכול לכתחילה מתבשילו (עי’ מ”ב שיח, ב).”

    “האיסור ליהנות ממלאכה שנעשתה בשבת, הוא רק כשברור שהמעשה אסור, אבל אם נעשה דבר ששנוי במחלוקת, אף שלמעשה נוהגים להורות כדעה המחמירה, מכל מקום בדיעבד, מותר ליהנות מאותה המלאכה. וזאת משום שכל יסוד האיסור ליהנות ממלאכה שנעשתה בשבת הוא מדברי חכמים, ולכן כאשר יש מחלוקת אם המלאכה אסורה, הלכה כמיקל, שספק בדברי חכמים להקל (פמ”ג, מ”ב שיח, ב).

    in reply to: Bridging the Gap Between The Torah World and MO #2196387
    simcha613
    Participant

    Neville- I definitely understand it. If you rule something is assur, then you can’t give it to someone else even if they think it’s mutar.

    I’m just not sure I agree with it. Lifnei iveir is placing a stumbling block in front of a person… convincing them to do something they wouldn’t want to be doing or enabling them to do something they shouldn’t be doing.

    For a stam yid, he has the right to follow his rav and posek. Whether the rav or posek will be held accountable if that psak is mistake is not for me to decide, but the stam yid who relies on a legitimate psak by a reliable posek (like R’ Moshe regarding chalav stam or the Rabbonim who allow Heter Mechira) is doing nothing wrong. He doesn’t need to follow your posek, he can and should follow his own posek. So how could it be considered a stumbling block to enable him to do something that he’s allowed to do? Nu, so your Rav says it’s prohibited… but lifnei iver seems to be about the target. It’s not about what’s permissible for you, it’s about what’s permissible for him. And your posek’s ruling isn’t kovea for all of Klal Yisroel.

    in reply to: Grocery that gets rid of all Chometz before Pesach #2196349
    simcha613
    Participant

    I find it hard to believe that there would be a grocery store that can afford to do that. Relying on mechras chameitz as an individual is certainly controversial… but a store using it is less problematic because I think that’s what the original institutions was for (I think it was for whiskey sellers) because the loss of destroying all that chameitz would have been overwhelming.

    in reply to: Bridging the Gap Between The Torah World and MO #2196313
    simcha613
    Participant

    As a follow up, it seems like R’ Melamed rules that it wouldn’t be an issue of lifnei iveir to enable or assist someone in relying on a lenient psak given by a reliable posek

    “ויש טוענים, שכשם שאסור לקנות פירות מחשודים על עבודה בשביעית, כדי שלא לסייע לדבר עבירה, כך אסור לקנות מפירות שגודלו במסגרת ‘היתר המכירה’. אולם כיוון שהחקלאים עובדים על פי היתר הרבנים, אין במעשיהם שום עבירה. והטוענים שאסור לסייע להם, מבטלים לגמרי את דברי הרבנים המתירים, ועוברים באיסור חמור של ביזוי תלמידי חכמים ועשיית מחלוקת.”

    in reply to: Bridging the Gap Between The Torah World and MO #2196214
    simcha613
    Participant

    Hakatan- chalav Yisroel is a chumra in the sense that there are reliable poskim who don’t require it. Unless you don’t consider R’ Moshe a reliable posek. Chumra does not mean unnecessary or even optional. For those Jews who have poskim who are machmir are certainly required min hadin to follow that psak.

    But since every frum Jew has a right to rely on their posek, assuming that that poske is reliable, I find it hard to believe that it would be a prohibition of lifnei iveir to assist or even enable a Jew to rely on their psak, even if your posek rules differently.

    in reply to: Bridging the Gap Between The Torah World and MO #2195725
    simcha613
    Participant

    UJM- Hmm… I wonder if that’s true. At the end of the first perek of Yevamos, it says that even though Beis Shamai declared some keilim as tamei, and Beis Hill declared those same keilim as tahor, they still loaned things to one another. The meforshim explain, it’s because they had mutual respect for each other’s opinions, and Beis Shammai trusted Beis Hillel that BH would never loan BS a kli that BS considered tamei, even if BH themselves found nothing wrong with it (the parallel here is that someone who only eats Chalav Yisroel should be able to trust that their Chalav Stam neighbor would never serve them Chalav stam).

    But the meforshim say nothign about the reverse… would BS lend BH a kli that BS considered tamei even if BH considered them tahor? Would BS respect BH enough to allow them to be meikil, and to even be a part of that kula, when they themselves hold it’s a problem? I always assumed that BS would have no problem doing this but I could be wrong.

    in reply to: Erez Yisrael or stay in Galut? #2180841
    simcha613
    Participant

    @fakenews
    I never said that the Geulah happened already. That’s what Someday was accusing me of. Mashiach has yet to arrive, the Beis HaMikdash has not been rebuilt, and a secular government is in control of Eretz Yisroel.

    But the current situation may very well be the beginning of the Geulah. After all, kibutz galuyos, the return of Klal Yisroel to Eretz Yisroel, is an integral part of the Geulah. That certainly seems to be happening. Granted, it’s not happening in a miraculous or supernatural fashion, but do we know for sure that’s how it has to be? The Medina, for all its flaws, has certainly made it easier for Klal Yisroel to return to our land. And we are approaching the point where more than 50% of world Jewry will be in Eretz Yisroel.

    Is that a significant step towards the final Geulah? It would seem that it is. Granted, I’m not a navi to know for sure… but if the Jewish people are returning to Eretz Yisroel, then I think the burden of proof would be on those who are denying that this is a fulfillment of Kibutz Galuyos and that this does not constitute a part of the Geulah.

    in reply to: Erez Yisrael or stay in Galut? #2179274
    simcha613
    Participant

    Someday- I don’t recall saying that the geulah happened. I said that through the Medina, physically returning to Eretz Yisroel is now more accessible than it has ever been in the past. That’s just a fact. It’s easier to return to and live in Eretz Yisroel than at any point in history since the churban. How that relates to the final geulah is beyond my paygrade.

    in reply to: Erez Yisrael or stay in Galut? #2178333
    simcha613
    Participant

    Why wait for Mashiach?

    There’s a famous joke/story of a man who heard radio reports that there will be a flood in his town but he refused to evacuate because he had faith that God would save him. When the waters started flooding the town, he refused to go in someone’s boat because he had faith that God would save him. When he was stuck on his roof, he kindly refused the helicopter rescue saying that he was confident God would save him. When he died, he asked God why He didn’t save him. God responded- I sent you the news report, the boat, and the helicopter… what else were you waiting for?

    We pray multiple times a day for God to return us to Israel. One day, we’ll complain to God that He didn’t take his back, and He may respond, I gave you the Medina with the right of return, I gave you Nefesh B’Nefesh… what exactly were you waiting for? I am not a navi to know for sure that God only intends for us to return to EY when Mashiach reveals himself or through supernatural and miraculous means. Maybe God has already sent us the news report, boat, and helicopter and we’re praying for something that God has already granted us.

    in reply to: Rabbeim- ditch the drink #2168977
    simcha613
    Participant

    Shimon- with all due respect, I do not think that’s the proper understanding of the MB. Why would the MB need to tell us that “if you want to follow the Rama, make sure to do everything that the Rama says to do”? It seems far more likely that his comment is going on the entire suggestion of the Rama, that the option to drink more than usual and then go to sleep is the proper way to fulfill the mitzvah of ad delo yada.

    Plus, the MB is quoting the Pri Megadim who is much more explicit. The Pri Megadim first references the Taz who explains the Rama is going like the shitah of R’ Efrayim that the story of the killing of R’ Zeira is the way the Gemara tells us that we shouldn’t get drunk like Rava suggests. The Pri Megadim then quotes the Pri Chadash that one shouldnt drink so much, just a little and then go to sleep. And then the Pri Megadim finishes off וכן ראוי לעשות which is what the MB quoted. So it’s clear that the וכן ראוי לעשות is going on the entire suggestion of the Rama and not the end of it

    in reply to: Rabbeim- ditch the drink #2168913
    simcha613
    Participant

    Ujm- and just to make sure I’m not misunderstood. I’m not against getting drunk on Purim if it’s done safely and responsibly. I do it myself (though I can’t say for sure if it’s my Yetzer Hara or my Yetzer Tov driving me to do so). I’m just trying to point out that making it seem like this is such a one sided issue, that it’s poshut that one should get drunk on Purim, that the Rama is a kula that should be avoided and that getting stone drunk is a proper chumra… Is misleading and not intellectually honest . Poskim as recent and authoritative as the Mishnah Berurah is quite clear that getting stone drunk is not the ideal way to fulfill the mitzvah, and that the Rama is not a kula to be avoided, but the proper way to fulfill the mitzvah.

    in reply to: Rabbeim- ditch the drink #2168909
    simcha613
    Participant

    Ujm- “you are supposed to get stone drunk on Purim”. According to some shitos. According to the Pri Megadim and Mishnah Berurah however, the preferable way to be mekayem the mitzvah is like the suggestion of the Rama- drinking more than usual and going to sleep. According to the Mishnah Berurah, he may consider getting stone drunk on Purim a kula… An excuse to a give on to our base desires of drunkenness in the name of a mitzvah when the ideal way to perform that Mitzvah does not require letting go of ourselves.

    simcha613
    Participant

    Ujm- I agree that it seems like that Shomrim may have jumped the gun. But the mother was genuinely nervous as all it takes is six seconds for an abduction to take place. and she asked the experts. They advised her to call the cops. I don’t think she did anything wrong unless she misrepresented the situation. I’m not sure why Shomrim thought calling the police was the right call here… I’m definitely open to accusing them of making a serious mistake, but it’s hard for me to say that with any kind of confidence without knowing their reasoning.

    Is it the issue of mesira? Depends on whether the gedarim of mesira extends to a reasonably just society. I’m not convinced it does… But whether it’s the formally issur of mesira or not, a false accusation is a serious thing.

    in reply to: Lessons Learned from the False Arrest of the Innocent Tzadik in Flatbush #2161428
    simcha613
    Participant

    Ujm- in emergency situations, asking a Rav could potentially waste time and make the sakana even worse. Anyways, most competent Rabbonim would advise the shoel to ask an expert to determine if this is a pikuach nefesh situation and to rely on their advice. Which is exactly what this mother did by reaching out to shomrim first. Does she have to apologize to the innocent man who was accused? Of course. But does that mean she should act differently in the future, I don’t think so. Unless she was dishonest in what she told shomrim or the police, I don’t see that she did anything wrong.

    Now, whether shomrim jumped the gun in advising her to call the police is a different question. Clearly in hindsight they were mistaken. But I don’t know the facts on the ground as they do… How don’t percentages or statistics or how a delay in arresting an attempted kidnapper could make it that much more difficult to find him and whether that delay could put more people at risk. Without the benefit of that expert knowledge, I can’t pass judgement on whether they should have acted differently. But, clearly in this specific situation, they were indeed mistaken, and like the mother, should apologize to the wrongly accused.

    simcha613
    Participant

    Ujm- if she thought an attempted kidnapper was on the loose, even if her own son was safe, it certainly is a pikuach nefesh situation. And I appreciate the accusation, but my feelings on mesirah are not solely my own, but based on learning the sugya with my Rav.

    simcha613
    Participant

    Ujm- it’s a debate among the poskim whether mesira applies in a just society like ours. I think there’s a famous Aruch HaShulchan about it (tohoigj there is a debate on whether he actually meant what he wrote). That being said, since there is debate on whether mesira applies nowadays, and the stakes here are pikuach nefesh (as children being abused is no doubt pikuach nefesh and we almost always paskin safely pikuach nefesh lechumra), the issue of mesira when it comes to children safety is not one of particular concern to me.

    in reply to: Lessons Learned from the False Arrest of the Innocent Tzadik in Flatbush #2161185
    simcha613
    Participant

    Anyone falsely accused of horrific crimes is obviously a tragedy. And he should certainly be apologized to. But that being said, our (justified) fear of accusing someone falsely more often than not handcuffs our community from protecting our children and I think we need to change our approach. False accusations are far rarer than children being abused and no one acting to their defense. Unfortunately, it’s very possible that in many of these cases, bending over backwards to make sure our children are safe and secure is the lesser of two evils, even if it means the occasional false accusations.

    I’m not convinced that the mother and shomrim did the wrong thing given the circumstances, and just like we have gedarim for so many areas of our lives, not touching minors without the knowledge and consent of their parents is certainly one we should embrace. Though in hindsight, they were indeed wrong, and the innocent party needs to be apologized to… Even if he himself may need to do his own cheshbon hanefesh on the proper way out of the halachic situation of walking between two women next time.

    We need to do our best to make sure there are no false accusations… But not the expense of putting innocent and vulnerable children at risk. And if we can’t do both, then our priority should be making a safe environment for our children from the sick and evil people hiding within and without our communities.

    in reply to: Taxes in Eretz Yisroel #2159186
    simcha613
    Participant

    Ujm- as I understood it, it’s a machlokes between the Ran and other Rishonim. Does the Shulchan Arich and other early poskim bring down the Ran lehalacha? I was under the impression that they do not.

    Also, the Rans sevara is that no foreign government can demand we pay tax ,which is a form of rental payment, for Eretz Yisroel as we own Eretz Yisroel, not them. I’m not sure if the Rans psak would change as the function of taxes nowadays has nothing to do with permission to live here, but rather it’s paying for services that all citizens and residents utilize.

    Thirdly, my point was not about halacha. I thought I specifically made that point. Even if halacha doesn’t require us to pay taxes, then that would mean nobody is required to pay taxes. Is that a society we would want to be a part of? Practically speaking, following the letter of the law would create mass anarchy and a non functioning society. We wouldn’t want our society as a whole to abuse that Ran which would be disastrous for all of us… So it seems ingenious to use the Ran as an excuse for tax evasion when we fully expect and desire the rest of Israeli society to pick up the slack and pay for all the services we want and need but refuse to pay for because of the Ran.

    in reply to: Taxes in Eretz Yisroel #2159189
    simcha613
    Participant

    Avira- the government is the government. I’m not convinced that we would be any better off under the British or the US or the Arabs. We want to live here, and there is a government that is making it possible. I don’t think that “if it’s not the best government ever, then I am exempt from paying all taxes while taking whatever I can from them” is a very cogent argument. We believe God runs the world, and this is how history has played out. Any government would require taxes and it seems disingenuous to claim that we are above the law. We want to love here, we need to use the governmental services, but since this isn’t the givernemtn that we handpicked, let the frei pay for our share. That argument doesn’t seem so yashar. Imposing on other people our share of taxes so we can benefit for free simply because we didn’t get to choose the government seems quite a convinient to take from others what they never agreed to give us.

    in reply to: Ethical Orthodoxy #2156794
    simcha613
    Participant

    Avira- name me one posek who allows one to speak about R’ Lichtenstein disrespectfully because he is a Chilul HaShem? It seems like you are doing the very thing you are fighting about… Using your own warped intuition to violate aveiros.

    in reply to: Ethical Orthodoxy #2156682
    simcha613
    Participant

    adlc- I agree with you. Unfortunately, some people resort to being mevazeh Gedolei Torah as a defense mechanism when faced with an outlook that differs from their own, rather than responding with respect and actually learning about that derech. That kind of bizuy would certainly not fall within “ethical Orthodoxy,”

    in reply to: Ethical Orthodoxy #2156679
    simcha613
    Participant

    The way I understoof the manifesto in Halachic terms is to preclude an ethical “naval birshus haTorah.” In other words, halacha is not unethical, but one can be an Orthodox Jew and a Shomer Torah UMitzvos while still being unethical. There are so many parts of our lives and aspects of our personality that aren’t directly regulated by the Torah that one can do many ethical things and retain many negative midos while still claiming to be a shomer Torah uMitzvos. Ethical Orthodoxy is the effort to preent that from happening by ensuring that ethics and Torah values (which are obviously not mutually exclusive) direct every aspect of our lives.

    in reply to: Meikil=Less Religious? #2135720
    simcha613
    Participant

    Every situation and shaila is different and there is no one cut and dried answer in either direction. Which is why even attitudes like UJM “Being meikel for the reason that it’s easier to be meikel, is inherently worse.” might be inherently flawed as well. We just learned in daf yomi the shitah that a Nazir has to bring a Chatas because even though there is a purpose for some people to being a Nazir, and a Nazir is viewed as being a very holy individual, he has still sinned by withholding from himself some of the pleasures of this word. Sometimes the easy path is the right path, and choosing the more difficult one is not approproiate. Obviously you have to know yourself and be as unbiased as possible, as well as relying on a Rav who you trust to be knowledgeable and yashar, but an unecessary chumra (even in an effort to follow “all the shitos”) which leads to a limitiation of pleasure may also be incorrect.

    in reply to: The great Uniter in Chief 🙄 #2120584
    simcha613
    Participant

    CA- do the Republicans who denounce left wing extremists also denounce the right wing ones? Usually not.

    in reply to: Protecting the innocent and false accusations #2045709
    simcha613
    Participant

    The Little I Know- I agree with some of what you say, disagree with others… but one thing in particular that I want to point out is the potential danger of the accused remaining anonymous. Let’s ignore the fact that people won’t know that he may be a danger to the vulnerable, and won’t protect themselves or their children suffciently, but what is going to happen if he remains anonymous? He temporarily loses his job as a precaution but no one knows why? It’s done silently and off the record? This kind of situation can lead to him finding another job with a potential new pool of victims. Maybe not in that community, maybe not even in that state, but if his alleged crimes remains hush hush, then that leaves open the possibility for his alleged crimes to continue. It’s certainly damaging and unfair if he is in fact innocent, but that’s the essence of the question, do we sacrifice public and child safety to protect the potentially innocent? And I’m not sure if that’s something we can sacrifice.

    in reply to: Protecting the innocent and false accusations #2045537
    simcha613
    Participant

    My mistake. Will repost with the appropriate changes

    in reply to: Women Learning Gemara #2015869
    simcha613
    Participant

    I researched this topic back in my youth, and I wanted to share my thoughts.

    It’s not so clear from the Rambam and S”A that women aren’t allowed to learn Torah Shebal Peh. Even though the S”A says that one who teaches his daughter Torah it’s as if he taught her “tiflus” (tiflus being something negative), the S”A also say that women receive sechar for learning it! Now if the S”A was saying that it is assur, the S”A wouldn’t have said they get a reward for doing it. The S”A just says it can’t be taught to them which I understand to mean that it is not allowed to be imposed on them, however if they learn it by choice, then they receive reward.

    One also has to factor in (based on the S”A and the Rama) that a woman does not have a chiyuv to learn Torah which has no practical application, and has a chiyuv to learn Torah that has practical application (halachah, mussar, Tanach [Gemara in Megilah says that the only nevu’os that were recorded were those who’s messages are meant for all generations, therefore Nach is practical], etc…). It’s a positive thing to learn the areas which have no practical application (the S”A says they receive reward), it’s better than wasting time, but it’s not a chiyuv.

    Based on this, I think there are 4 criteria that need to be met for women to learn Gemara:

    1) They have to want to do it.

    2) It has to be for lishmah reasons, not feminist reasons.

    3) They need a teacher to guide them in the right way to learn Gemara.

    4) It can’t come at the expense of learning those areas of Torah that are a chiyuv for them to learn, but it can only come at the expense of things that are reshus (learning secular subjects, going shopping, etc…).

    in reply to: Women Learning Gemara #2015868
    simcha613
    Participant

    It’s not so clear from the S”A that women aren’t allowed to learn Torah Shebal Peh. Even though the S”A says that one who teaches his daughter Torah it’s as if he taught her “tiflus” (tiflus being something negative), the S”A also say that women receive sechar for learning it! Now if the S”A was saying that it is assur, the S”A wouldn’t have said they get a reward for doing it. The S”A just says it can’t be taught to them which I understand to mean that it is not allowed to be imposed on them, however if they learn it by choice, then they receive reward.

    One also has to factor in (based on the S”A and the Rama) that a woman does not have a chiyuv to learn Torah which has no practical application, and has a chiyuv to learn Torah that has practical application (halachah, mussar, Tanach [Gemara in Megilah says that the only nevu’os that were recorded were those who’s messages are meant for all generations, therefore Nach is practical], etc…). It’s a positive thing to learn the areas which have no practical application (the S”A says they receive reward), it’s better than wasting time, but it’s not a chiyuv.

    Based on this, I think there are 4 criteria that need to be met for women to learn Gemara:

    1) They have to want to do it.

    2) It has to be for lishmah reasons, not feminist reasons.

    3) They need a teacher to guide them in the right way to learn Gemara.

    4) It can’t come at the expense of learning those areas of Torah that are a chiyuv for them to learn, but it can only come at the expense of things that are reshus (learning secular subjects, going shopping, etc…).

    in reply to: Tishah BeAv and Yom HaShoah #1571296
    simcha613
    Participant

    I have to say, this is an absolutely fascinating conversation. Permit me to summarize what I’m reading so I can be corrected if I misunderstand something:

    Ubiquitin- There is no value in allowing our enemies to massacre it. There is no reason to be led like sheep to the slaughterhouse. If our enemies are committing genocide against us, even if we have no chance, it is a Kiddush Hashem to go down fighting. We cannot just allow our enemies to send us to the chambers without fighting for our lives… as futile as that fight may be.

    Joseph- It is absolutely prohibited to do anything that can lead to a shortening of human life. If a fight against our enemy is futile, then there is no point in fighting them, even if we are going to die anyways, even if we are going to be led to our deaths like sheep to the slaughterhouse. If we give our enemy an excuse to kill us and our fellow Jews by fighting them in a futile attempt to stop their genocide, then it is as if we are responsible for the lives they take. There is no excuse for causing the premature loss of life if there is no chance of success.

    in reply to: Tishah BeAv and Yom HaShoah #1569633
    simcha613
    Participant

    Regarding the sirens being a Goyish practice, it’s not so clear how strong that argument is.

    Using silence as a response to tragedy is a very logical response. We take a second to shut down what’s going on around us to think about the tragedy that we are mourning about. It’s hard to say that something this logical, something not based in avodah zarah, is something that Goyish.

    Not only that, but it also has roots in the Torah and Chazal. When Nadav and Avihu died, Aharon was silent. Iyov’s friends sat in silence with him for seven days.The Gemara in Berachos 6b says that “the merit of attending house of mourning lies in maintaining silence.” Even in our Mesorah, silent contemplation, expressing silent solidarity with our brethren, is a very Jewish concept indeed.

    Using a siren to signal to the masses when to be silent together, as a tzibur, to commemorate a national tragedy, is pragmatic. The fact that we took that idea from the Goyim doesn’t make it anymore of a Goyish practice then using the styles of Goyim (like a suit and tie), using their inventions (cars and planes), or their ideas (I would assume many fundraising, education, and kiruv strategies are based on strategies that were discovered and developed by non-Jews). Non-Jews can have good ideas too, and when they aren’t based in Avodah Zarah, we can utilize those ideas for a higher purpose.

    in reply to: Tishah BeAv and Yom HaShoah #1569060
    simcha613
    Participant

    Lasekrn- I think I partially agree with you. I’m not talking about establishing a new day of commemorating the Holocaust lechatchilah or replacing Tishah BeAv c”v. I am talking about that now, once another day exists, is there a value in commemorating the Holocaust together as a people as a whole in addition to Tishah BeAv? As a secondary question, if not observing Yom HaShoah (specifically not pausing in silence during the siren) causes offense and hurt to other Jews who do take the Holocaust siren seriously, is that not reason enough to pause… especially during the time of year when we are trying to rectify “lo nahagu kavod zeh lazeh?”

    Joseph- Let’s ignore for the fact that appreciating the chessed that America does for us while ignoring all of the chesed that Medinas Yisroel does for us is quite confusing to me… standing for the siren on Holocaust Memorial Day is not about recognizing the medina, it’s about memorializing the Holocaust. Is the hate for the medina so strong that you are willing to ignore a Holocaust memorial siren because of your attitude towards the medina? Even if you felt that the siren has no inherent value, is the hate to the medina so strong that you can rationalize offending and hurting other Jews by ignoring the siren they take so seriously just because of your attitude towards the medina?

    Bowing to the pope seems to be a poor comparison as that at the very least smells of avodah zarah. It is likely assur D’Oraysa and offending others is no excuse. As far as I know, there is no issur to stand for the siren. Even if you want to somehow argue it’s Chukas HaGoyim (which I think is a very hard argument to make), it’s no more Chukas HaGoyim then standing for a secular national anthem which doesn’t seem to bother you.

    in reply to: Tishah BeAv and Yom HaShoah #1568867
    simcha613
    Participant

    Joseph… It’s interesting how you say the holocaust happened because of “our” sins but then you proceed to list flaws in other groups and sects of Jews. It’s always easy to claim tragedies happen due to our sins without the need to do any selfies introspection… Since it was everyone else’s fault.

    in reply to: Tishah BeAv and Yom HaShoah #1568871
    simcha613
    Participant

    I imagine most people would stand for the United States anthem so as not to offend people. And yet it’s okay to offend other Jews by not standing during the siren in memory of the Holocaust? If it’s not prohibited to stand during the siren, what gives us the right to ignore their sensitivities and do something offensive? We’re allowed to cause hurt to other Jews just because they’re secular?

    and maybe they should respect our right to ignore their memorial siren, but because they’re doing something wrong, that gives us the right to do something wrong to them? That gives us the right to offend and hurt them?

    in reply to: Tishah BeAv and Yom HaShoah #1566030
    simcha613
    Participant

    “Who are they that we should obey them?” It’s unfortunately that attitude that just leads to more division. We wouldn’t be obeying them, we would be joining them. I wish that they would be ovdei Hashem just like we are, but they are still our brothers… and they are commemorating a tragedy that affected us both together. Secular and religious Jews entered the gas chambers together, and yet we still have the attitude “who are they that we should obey them.” It doesn’t matter who is separating from who, what matters is who has the power to join together. Maybe I just think too highly of us, but I was always under the impression that we have more of an ability to extend our hand then the reverse.

    in reply to: Tishah BeAv and Yom HaShoah #1565998
    simcha613
    Participant

    AY- which is why it’s not ideal to have Yom HaShoah in Nissan. If it were in the hands of the religious to decide, it likely would have been a different day… or maybe not even a separate day at all. My point was, now that Yom HaShoah does exist in this unideal time of year, should we separate from our fellow (albeit secular) Jews in commemorating the Holocaust on that day or join together? The fact that Chazal did enact nihugei aveilus during Nissan just demonstrates that it’s not a hard and fast prohibition… otherwise they wouldn’t have been able to do that in the first place.

    Interestingly enough, the nihugei aveilus during sefirah are to commemorate and rectify the sinas chinam that caused the deaths of R’ Akiva’s students. Chazal seemingly felt that the rectification of sinas chinam (or the rectification of not treating each other with respect) is a strong enough value that it warrants nihugei aveilus even in the happy month of Nissan. One can argue that choosing to separate from our fellow Jews in commemorating the Holocaust, something that my inadvertently cause an increase in sinas chinam and creates the impression of disrespect for one another, is taking the opposite message from Chazal who seemed to prioritize the evils of sinas chinam and disrespect over the happiness of Nissan.

    in reply to: Tishah BeAv and Yom HaShoah #1565679
    simcha613
    Participant

    DovidBT- I understand what you were trying to do. But you were comparing violating avodah zarah for the sake of achdus and commemorating a tragedy on a day other then Tishah BeAv for the sake of achdus. They are not the same. It’s not even clear that having a special day to commemorate the Holocaust is against halacha as we have other examples… mourning the crusades during sefirah, tach vetat on 20 Sivan… which only makes your comparison that much more ridiculous.

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