🍫Syag Lchochma

yes neville, i agree that if that happened than those would be the responses. i also disagree about what was attacked. but thats my personal take. And right now im just waiting for mw to lamely tell me that really he wasnt calling me left wing at all he was just bringing in that example arbitrarily. cuz im tired of being accused of having left wing hashkofos every time i insist people should be treated respectfully. is there some reason why the self proclaimed”right wingers” think that insisting on respect is something only “left wingers” do?

At this point i am highly offended.

(although two wrongs still don’t make a right)

i know, and i try to remind myself when i forget. but i was really just trying to make a point

sometimes the the more “left-wing” posters can be a bit quick to assume that the “right-wingers” are attacking somebody personally

yes, this is a true statement. how does that apply to us?

But I won’t.

sure you did. and if i ever choose to speak condescendingly and mockingly to someone based on his opinions, faulty or otherwise, then I would respect the fact that you are defending him. and I’d appreciate if that same favor was extended to me.

you seem to be confused about the difference between instigating and defending. But don’t worry, you are in good company. This is waht seems to be confusing – If you are sitting on a bench and i spit at you and then your friend spits at me, your friend and I are not both guilty of the same behaviors.

and btw, thanks for that dvar Torah, it was great.

thank you neville for being the only person who seems to know the difference between disregarding information without disregarding the person giving it (in a way that turns my stomach. and the “who me?” that goes along with it is depressing).

Maybe when pesach is over and the yetzer hora lessens his grip on pushing us away from the potential kedusha of the yom, the atmosphere here will change. til then, I will find somewhere else to be.

gosh mw, what funny jokes. I think your point has been made, you are all allowed to use zd for target practice because you understand all these comments to be attacks on Judaism instead of on what he perceives to be misplaced priorities some people put on chumras. got it. And since you know for a fact you aren’t mistaken its almost an obligation. I think Hashem gives extra points for that.

well that’s a good start but you should really keep at it. maybe look into some of the more mystical reasons for not eating chametz – there’s so much to learn and grow from!

I know of major Poskim who are Mattir Kitniyos for those with (real) gluten allergies/

I developed some crazy food sensitivities in the last years and gluten (or flour?) gives me terrible headaches and literally puts me to sleep. I had the same reaction, for some reason, to gluten free oat matzo. I couldn’t figure out why my head hurt when i was eating non-gebrocts pesach food til i deduced that potatoes is also a problem. I can eat yogurt but when i ate cheese for lunch I was in much pain.

while it pains me so much not to have anything to eat for the mitzvah of matza, or for most of the meals, i could not see myself eating kitniyos on Pesach. Id rather be hungry (which, by the way, i am).

now dont think i cant cook or bake,

there’s lots of great foods that i make,

but those who like munching,

can’t do without crunching,

and they wont do with shehakol cake.

right, and why is that something to be embarassed about? You did just what you were supposed to do and you should be proud. Will you be embarassed when mashiach comes that you live in NY? 🙂

why is that rude?

🙂

“Your chinuch decisions should be thought out based on merit, not on what anyone else does.

“

its kind of odd that you would pull that out of a paragraph (and thread) that Id think makes it clear that I do make decisions with thought.

and the irony of it all is that we have always been careful to mechanech on thought and merit, and not based on “well everyone does it” or “what would the neighbors think”. and expression of such views have earned me some very hurtful criticism questioning my Torah adherence from some of the self proclaimed resident CR mashgichim. So while it is the way it should be done, it is not without consequence.

If you allow them to go to the library, you are essentially being mechanech them that the library is a kosher place to be, and if not, that it’s not a kosher place to be.

absolutely disagree in this case. if NOBODY is going to libraries and my kids do, that may be a different case. But when i walk into a library with my kids and i tell them to sit on the comfy chairs while i look around for books for them to choose from, and that they are NOT to go browsing thru the shelves, but they are welcome to go to the librarian to ask for specific books that they have already gotten approved, there is no message of permissibility there. not only that, but they learn very clearly that the library is NOT a place for browsing independently and after years of that training i dont need to worry about them one day falling into the place and getting sucked in.

Some places need to be off limits, and some places cannot be off limits so the children need to be taught how to stay away from things they will encounter in these places. Same goes for malls, department stores with HUGE televisions playing, grocery stores with magazine racks etc.

“Maybe it is interesting how often ZD professes knowledge about so many things that he is so obviously and drastically wrong about.”

I dont find this to be true as often as you do, i don’t find this to be true exclusively of him, and i do find that he somehow avoids EVER being rude, which is really my area of interest. I have learned that when we (me too) jump on something with excessive passion we need to question our real motives.

And it is always with an agenda.

I would argue on the always. in private. Everyone here has an “agenda”.

I doubt I am the only one to note or comment on this.

that is proof of nothing. there are people here who will comment on a lot of things and being right never seems to be a concern for them. There are some who are very nasty and cutting and in their own minds they are 100% right and fighting Gds fight. but that is only because they, too, were raised with an agenda. And people with agendas sometimes have conversations about non-agenda topics that just don’t require this level of m’acha

I admire your motive, i question your passion (which, by the way, does not need to concern you in the least)

nisht – that is nice, im jealous. i kinda wish i had farms nearby.

The manual intervention question isnt MY real question, im not really concerned with the particulars of that topic. i just noticed that no matter what the topic is or whether or not you have been posting, if zd says something, you are right there pointing out how wrong he is. the idea that you had knowlege on even this was interesting to me and i very much appreciate your answer.

i used to love the Montessori method but as an OT i see the problems it raises. besides it being very very difficult to use side by side with learning sifrei kodesh, children who have weak skills learn to avoid those skill areas completely instead of working thru them. Children who struggle with fine motor or group work will sometimes opt out of activities that develop those skills and fall further behind.

queen – yes, when you say it that way i do agree. i just feel very strongly about the “my house, my rule” derech when it is meant as just that. and when you mentioned the opposite being kids rule that seemed to me to verify that thought.

I also don’t use strict, i use firm and consistent, but that was the word used so i stuck with it. totally with ya on that one.

also – i am one of those readers who read while eating, walking to school, crossing the street, laying in bed. i remember my mother asking me to please at least lift my eyes to say hello to people when they enter a room. I stopped reading secular books for reasons i have previously posted in other threads and have always pre-read my kids books. Even stacks of them at a time. I cannot imagine handing over books that haven’t been “researched” (there are mom’s who share information on books they’ve pre-read). i did not want to give my kids harry potter even though many said it was fine til book five. I don’t think letting a kid read four 500+ page books and telling them not to read the finale makes any sense.

books are very, very strong alluring and addictive. very. dont kid yourselves.

The question was “Any suggestions?”

ya know that is certainly a cool lesson on people and their inner thoughts. He spoke about his desperation to have a kid in yeshiva because the doors have been closed for monetary reasons and to me “any suggestions” meant “Can anyone suggest how I can get my child into yeshiva for the sake of his spiritual and emotional health when most don’t want us for financial reasons” and you heard “Can anyone help us come up with money to pay for tuition so my son can go to yeshiva”

cute observation.

the Rabbaim need to eat and the electricity needs to be paid….Yeshivos need the money.

10000% true. I just don’t agree with you that allowing people to learn torah in a torah environment that they cant afford will have an impact on that. I see them as very very separate issues.

Syag: …I have to assume the OP has extreme and unusual circumstances that they are unwilling to disclose, but that will hurt them in justifying financial support.

or maybe they don’t feel like sharing it online, or maybe it is irrelevent because that isn’t really what their quesiton was.

As DY can tell you, I consider the term “Frum” as a pejorative. 🙂

🙂

We can discuss “family planning” on a different thread, if the mods let you do it.

i can assure you i have no interest in such a discussion. it would depress me greatly and is too individualized to be a discussion.

Finally, if you believe that the OP’s child is by definition deserving of a Yeshiva education, might I suggest that you either provide it or pay for it. I’m sure the Mods can get your spare $60,000 over to the OP.

considering tuition is about $13k-20k, Im not sure what i would be sending $60k for.

Oddly enough, I don’t disagree with your ideas of personal responsibility and cautios approach to what should be subsidized, but i do strongly disagree with the overlying (a touch louder than underlying) tone that i perceive in how far you take it. For example, not relying on bitachon for parnassa does not mean that there is no bitachon in parnassa. Believing people should pay their own way when they can, cut corners at all ends and put tuition first does not mean lock up your wallet so tight that you overscrutinize everyone else’s place in life to decide if they are worthy of the pennies Gd gave you to distribute (I am not being literal, I am trying to explain how I hear your posts)

I have said in many old threads that my husband and I were willing to live on one salary so that we could raise our own kids. We lived on less than $50k with six kids. no camp. one car. no vacations. no restaurants. no food stamps. but when i needed help for tuition, i truly believed that as humiliating as it was to ask for help, i was offering the community some wonderful, torah true, children with beautiful middos in exchange. if money is the only commodity then you may be right. I believe that some people give money and others have other things to give.

nfgo3 – not sure what salaries are everywhere but a Rebbe can make $33k-$40k and the tuition breaks are usually less then he would get as a low income family. (minimum is about $3000 per kid, teacher’s break is often 50% of 10k). Also, the morah’s are paid closer to $10k-$25k.

As i have stated in other threads, i am not opposed to secular college for those who can handle it spiritually, but i do disagree that not having college is putting anyone at a disadvantage. There are a huge amount of individuals that have college degrees but no jobs are available. And many, many of the kids with the street smarts grew up barely scraping together a hs diploma and are making a lot of money in administraive, sales, real estate positions. You need to believe that your PATH must be chosen based on what is good for your relationship to Gd, and your result will be chosen by Gd.

zdad – no, i disagree. i think the leadership understands and I don’t believe they are all sending their kids anywhere for free. A menahel here in chicago may have free or subsidized tuition for his children in his own school but then they all move on to high school and yeshivos where they owe tuition just like everyone else.

no, i don’t think it is the leadership. Although i don’t find it to be the case in my community, the more i read these threads the more i believe it is the middle and upper class who have members who have no idea. “let them eat cake,” indeed.