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about what?
hes not available to answer you, sam, he has to wash the dishes before he goes to bed.
convince the other of what?
and ‘methinks’ that answer is obnoxious. you accuse me of something that i find highly offensive and i explain it isn’t true or accurate. you chose to ignore social rules by accusing me again, and then when I take offense at both your rudeness AND disregard, you consider that too much protesting. It seems you don’t really understand the phrase (you have misused it in the past), too much means more than the required amount. that would mean more than two for two.
It also seems that when you are wrong you chose to be offensive or change the subject.
there is not an ounce of feminism in me, my household or my life. If anything, i am pretty anti-feminism. And since we have already had that discussion i will consider this a validating demonstration of your long standing preference for your mistaken assumptions over truth.
in your very small daled amos, perhaps.
he did sponga every week before or after shabbos to help his wife.
my husband never does any housework to help me. he does housework for himself and the upkeep of the house. just like i do.
(pet peeve #476)
huh?
my husband is makpid to eat fish every shabbos meal but he doesnt like the carrot. i guess that means he isnt part rabbit.
wow – what a powerful story! I bet we can extrapolate a whole bunch of hard facts from there, like, i better go check my lineage – pronto!
roast duck – yuck
if you read it again you may find it wasn’t written that way. but that brings out the importance of giving an answer, and perhaps adding that you felt it was asked wrong. there is too much to lose in possibly judging incorrectly.
we hear so many times how hurt (crushed, destroyed) people felt when their questions were met with reprimand. Many times, perhaps, their tone was wrong. but honestly, if they don’t recognize that their tone was wrong, all they hear is that they were bad for asking. the musser piece about not asking properly is far out in left field (to them).
this doesnt imply you had bad intentions, this is just a good illustration of interactions we all should try very hard to avoid.
there are many fragile people out there (or already broken) and it is our job (I believe) to answer questions, encourage questions, prove that there are always answers to our questions, and model or explain appropriateness separately.
i was going to mention chrayonnaise too. i only eat fish if i have to and if it has enough chrayonnaise to get lost in it. yum. now THAT’s food.
555 – so in other words you don’t have an answer?
also, i was taught differently on that pasuk. i was not taught that it was teaching us how to view food. i learned that the pasuk was teaching us how to look at the character traits/qualities of living beings.
mammele – perhaps many got it but don’t consider jokes aimed at people to be worth noting. perhaps.
We don’t change dinim (or even minhagim) just because you don’t understand them.
Ouch –
regardless of his intent (which I dont know), it was a fair question that many may have, and i have no doubt there is a respectable answer that would encourage understanding of the system.
its called being considerate. the question was directed toward someone specifically.
joseph – do you mind if i throw in a response, having been (very wrongly) accused of the same thing?
555 – you may be unaware of this but hot dogs are not dog food, made from or for dogs.
-The name being repulsive is your opinion and you are surely welcome to it.
-Yes i know the ingredients and how they make them.
-yes i have watched my husband make gefilte fish. ew.
-yes i say gulp on sushi. also ew.
-I love meatloaf! thanks for asking.
now one for you – why in the world are you getting personally defensive about my dislike for gefilte fish?
555 – yes. but please, you cannot possibly compare hot dogs to – gulp – gefilte fish
555 – that would be a good point if gefilte fish was a food.
so than the bottom line is somewhere between “better to be right than a mentch” and “all bad behaviors can be rationalized”
well none of those are as offensive as being called an oveid a”z. just saying
mods, instead of a like button, can we have a “potentially inciteful post” button?
rebyidd – hey, you stole that from me. I must have posted that a few times, and once recently.
I really liked those baruch tapes. My favorite is probably the shabbos zemiros song that includes the tunes from different zemiros.
CT lawyer – I have never in my life heard anything about chinese auctions to indicate it is derogatory. I assumed this was a discreet way to have an auction, more typical of chinese culture than ours. And now that I have googled it, i have found that others echo that sentiment. No evidence anywhere of this being derogatory. Not even sure what it could mean if it was.
regardless of his being right or wrong in content, you can’t call it gaiva to say your leaders are better than a random poster. vehemently defending the rabbeim you follow is actually the modus operandi around here.
What about calling others Am Hoaratzim and peasants?
yes, that too is modus operandi here
regardless of his being right or wrong in content, you can’t call it gaiva to say your leaders are better than a random poster. vehemently defending the rabbeim you follow is actually the modus operandi around here.
What about calling others Am Hoaratzim and peasants?
Yes, that too is modus operandi
now you are changing the parameters completely. first is was being safe, now it’s about being targeted as Jews? Let’s keep it where it was. Is it safer to live in Israel than in the states? yes or no. the answer is –
how in the world can you profess to have an answer for this? seriously?
i feel much safer in israel than i do anywhere here. when my kids leave the house on Friday night, I am on shpilkes til they return. When my kids are out late in israel it doesn’t phase me at all. I do feel fearful for my nephew in the IDF, and for good reason. but the ordinary citizen? israel, hands down.
is that the answer? no, its an opinion. as are the other responses.
yes, joseph, that was my satirical point. That some posters here will argue X just because the zionists are arguing Y, even if it has nothing to do with politics. They don’t want to be caught on the same side of the table, k’ilu.
Seriously tho, I think we were talking safer, not safer-as-a-Jew. and either way, taking out gang violence and all that, I still do believe that it is NOT safer here in the US.
I also believe so many more people fall victim to terminal diseases here than there. I’ve wondered if that is a prescribed suffering designated for us here who don’t live among physical threats. Maybe we are not really “safer” anywhere, it is just a different kind of danger as befitting your surroundings.
personally i am surprised anyone is questioning the safety of israel vs here. my guess is that you make your decision based on the news, you don’t want to say anything positive about israel because you will look like a zionist…or you have just never been to chicago
🙂
this is an interesting question and I have thought it myself several times.
I live in a city where buses are not a ready option. Sometimes I will pass a man walking in extreme weather or in pouring rain and if I do not have a son with me, I painfully refrain from offering a ride. Most of the men would know who I am and that my intentions are good, and we are only talking about blocks, not miles, but I feel uncomfortable – or that he would feel uncomfortable.
either way, if your wife isn’t liking it, i guess that answers that question.
zogt – i was so impressed by your post above but now you are joining the fray as well. any hard data on the names? The communities vary so greatly it would be silly to make claims about what “the MO” are doing.
And technically, while i dont advocate for using names like sam, i don’t advocate for yiddish names either. according to R Krohn (and others) in his book about naming a child, yiddish is secular. those who named their kids Izik veered from Torah names and many did it to assimilate more guiltlessly. the only reason you think those names arent secular is because you don’t live in europe.
rats, i meant optimal. >.<
here’s what seems so sad about this thread –
on simchas Torah we are a nation rejoicing in the Torah. Not in our own personal learning, or our husbands learning, or our son’s. We rejoice in the Torah and in another completion of the cycle and start of the new cycle in prayer that we will always be “in the midst of” and never “done with” the Torah.
For generations, this happiness was tangible. People were so happy that they would dance. They danced for the torah they learned, that their children learned, and they danced for the very existance and privelidge of the Torah. We danced from joy.
As a women, we are included in that joy just as we are included in Hashem’s klal. it is our nations joy, every member.
Now we have a generation of people who are not as connected to that joy. not nearly as connected to the Torah as we were back then. We are lacking that ability to connect to the Torah in such a personal state that it makes us feel happy enough to dance as they did in past generations.
That, I believe is all of us. some more so, some less so. So now we reach the CR discussion where some believe that it doesn’t matter if you feel joy or not, you have to dance because it’s tradition. And you have others who say that it’s more important to feel joy, so lets find some way to do that.
But I really believe you are both wrong. Our job is not to walk around in circles fulfilling a tradition. Our job is to dance with joy. To love the Torah and celebrate KLAL YISROEL’s completion and beginning. But some people’s adherence to traditions without admitting to, or accommodating the desperate need for our kids to feel joy is turning people away. Even the frummest yeshivos have that lacking, more are turning to alcohol to “help them be bisimcha”. It needs to be dealt with, boosted, worked on.
But the “other side” is overstepping in the other direction. They are losing that connection to tradition and trying to establish their own. I am not so sure that dancing (without a torah) is not traditional, and I have no comment in this post on the particulars. But just as we cannot whip people into performing traditions while lacking emotional connection to Hashem without repercussions (WE made them dry thru yeridas doros, they are not dry of themselves ch”v), we also cannot write our own ticket to closeness with Hashem. we need to follow the guidelines He has laid out for us in the Torah.
I know that nobody from the old school of thought wants to admit that things aren’t going well, but they aren’t. And if we don’t work harder to infuse joy, connection, emotion and love into the established holy, sacred, traditional motions we go thru, more and more young people will keep looking for their own ways. the baby is certainly being thrown out with the bathwater.
And before you start accusing me of sick liberalism and other hurtful things, try absorbing some of this because our own desperate attempt to believe all is well is directly responsible for the search in other directions. Just to be sure I don’t get misquoted and twisted (haha)
I DO NOT advocate changing a SINGLE ONE of our traditions. I advocate for understanding that the traditions alone are not infusing our new generation with a connection to Hashem, and in order to prevent them from looking elsewhere for meaning and depth, we need to admit it is an issue, and work on putting the emotion, love, chashivus and divaikus back into our observance of Hashem’s mitzvos, and try selling that to people instead of just answering their needs with a door slam. See these newfangled ways as the cry for spiritual and cognitive connection that many believe it really is.
lol
Personally, I am crying for/waiting for/praying for moshiach because i want my children to stop having to struggle with their yetzer hora. i want them to be close to Hashem, to feel loved by Him and to benefit from the privelege of a spotless neshama. In truth, that is all very selfish, who wants to watch their children struggle? and probably all the wrong reasons for wanting moshiach, but i wouldn’t give it up for any money or possessions.
“Again, this goes against the basic premise- that earning through fight and effort is better than receiving for free.
“
when given the choice of the two, that which you earned is “better” than that which you received for free. But that doesn’t mean that being in a situation where you are sure to commit aveiros is optional.
“When women learned less the Torah, the effect was that they didn’t feel the need or desire to dance. When they learn more, they desire to celebrate more.”
this comment is so sad that it hurts.
i was commenting on his use of a quote from khaled to support his argument, not about the content. your response has no shiachus. why do you do that?
hey, if we cant trust khaled for his honest and unbiased opinion, who can we trust?
once you start pretending that playing in traffic –
(facing a physical and gravitational situation with a predictable outcome due to the laws of nature)
– is somehow related to carrying on your business while terrorists who are armed and looking for an excuse to shoot pick random reasons to do so, then it isn’t even worth having the conversation. There is no proof that the arabs kill less when we are not on har habayis, or kill more than when we are. If anyone believes otherwise, site your sources. Isn’t it enough to say we shouldn’t be going up there because that’s the halacha? What is the need for making up secondary reasons?
One must be blind not to see that.
is that a scientific answer?
I quote one of the CR sages from another thread:
if you substitute violence with hatred or contempt i see a similar concept
“It is without doubt that certain actions give the antisemites more motivation and impetus to act violently, which they do in response to specific activities they deem provocative even if objectively it might not be. That isn’t an excuse for a Jew to engage in an action that will result in violence against the Jews.”
oh come now, Joe. are you really that deperate to make it work in his favor?
You are still being very vague. Yes, if one does love Hashem it is not possible to do anything other than that which he has dictated thru the Torah. Rabbi Cordoza speaks of this in a shiur called, “Halacha as a symphony”. He said that if you TRULY understood the meaning and purpose of Yom kippur, you wouldn’t even think of eating, you would chose for yourself the very dictates that Halacha has set out for us. Truly loving Hashem brings a person to only want for himself that which Hashem wants for him.
But that is very different than saying that you love Gd, so you know that He doesn’t care what mitzvos you chose to keep or how you keep them. That He doesn’t care if you wait between milk and meat, if you check your lettuce well, if your skirt covers what it should.
I have heard your words used in both contexts and they are not the same. I don’t know if you are deliberately being vague about your meaning or not but the latter scenario is just an illusion.
and if anyone out there is feeling that putting him down (on a personal level) and attacking him (personally, instead of his words) is going to be helpful, I hope you will realize the irony of those thoughts.
I believe it is dangerous to make up our own guidelines for connecting to Hashem but it is no less dangerous not to be careful with our words.
Zev7 – I am understanding what you are saying and I have heard it before but it is very unclear if you are talking about within the confines of halacha or without. I am assuming the words “the serving him will roll as a result” indicate you are NOT talking about within the confines of halacha and if that is true, that is very sad.
If a person takes halacha too seriously by deciding that pants must be black, shirts must be white, fish must be gefilte, everyone needs to sing my songs or they are kofrim etc then you are right, that may not be a way to come closer to Gd and may be less about spirituality than politics and egocentrism.
But if you are saying (as has been said to me) that you know you are going against halacha on certain points but you feel a spiritual connection to Gd so you are not going to worry about it, then that is incorrect thinking.
If I ask you to help me pack my car because I am in need of assistance, and you tell me that you would really feel more giving if you could bring me lunch instead, how is that forming a relationship? We don’t form a relationship by picking our own guidelines and gifts for someone, we form a relationship by hearing what they ask.
If you have been taught that Judaism is about nitpicking and OCD, then I can understand your inability to connect, but maybe you should find yourself a better translator, a better shaliach, instead of choosing the self-serve buffet style because that is NOT what Judaism really is and there are plenty of people out there who can help make it real for you.
(couldn’t figure out where else to post this)
ATTN Joseph –
I was listening to a shiur last night that really conveyed the point I’ve tried to express to you regarding how I will defend the integrity of a poster even when I disagree with his views, and how you (and two other posters) misread that as me supporting their views (to the point of calling me a liberal, anti-frum etc.)
If you are interested (and you do strike me as the curious type) it was a Rabbi Wallerstein shiur titled “Parshas Ve’eschanan – What is true emes” Start at 25 minutes. Before that he is just giving mussar about the importance of not talking during davening.
Just thought you might be interested since he says it so much better than I do 🙂