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DY,
I only found it in dailymail and repeated in huffington post in both cases the story is extremly vague and self contradictory in terms of what exactly was said to the family. Did you see it elsewhere?
Nishtgedeygiy
This shouldnt be complicated He should call it what it is “coma” means one thing “brain dead” means another (regardless of whether you personally view it as “death.”
PBA was NOT making a halachic pronouncment, (please see his second comment on this thread) nor to the best of my knowledge is the family of the child. so discussion regarding the halachic definition of death is completly irrelevant as PBA pointed out. He is discussing the hospitals choices, and the choices they face are regarding a “brain dead” (whether you view her as alive/undead/dead/resurrected or whatever)
Your last paragraph proves you have absolutely no clue what “brain dead” means
Whats worse is you dont seem to know the aleoh bais of the subject at hand. You asked for a law, it was cited. Instead of a thank you you misconstrued (out of ignorance or malice) the discussion at hand. It isnt regarding whether the hospital “must remove someone from life support” (where on earth did you even get that bizzare notion) it is whether they may.
And according to the laws as currently written in every single state including California, this child is dead, there is no medical/legal reason to provide “life support” to a corpse.
(Again as to whether there is halachic reason to provide life support to what is legally/medically defined as a cadaver, is a great discussion but one for another day (or another thread)as it isn’t relevant to the discussion at hand which is limited to the options facing the child’s family and the hospital outlined in the OP neither of whom are invoking halacha)
DY great question!
I haven’t read up on that case in about a year now. As I recall the circumstance regarding what testing was done were never clear in the press( I don’t recall even seeing mention of it in mainstream press, let alone medical journals.) Ditto for case with boy in houston.
I will do search later and give you a more concrete answer.
If the doctors tested brain stem reflexes and did apnic test then he was brain dead, if not then he was “merely” in a coma despite any reporter confusing the terms as Popa did in his OP and which I am trying to correct
Whoa DY! I never said that
Just that the “age gap” is not THE cause(I’m not convinced it is even A cause but am willing to concede that point
PS Your comment was funny
nishtgedayget
This discussion isnt about the halachic status of “brain death” (As PBA made clear) it is in the context of this child vis a vis the hospital. (Please see th OP) In that context the child is dead, not in a coma as Popas’s state mistakinlgy and misleadingly states.
“This law says that you must remove the child from life support?”
No, what on earth are you talking about?
“And besides, have you examined the child yourself to make the determination?”
Again what are you talking about? I rarely determine for myself if person is dead or alive why would this case be an exception? Did you examine the child yourself? People are declared dead (whether via brain death or cardiac), countless times daily across the world, how on earth is my examining the child relevant?
PBA
I’m sorry I don’t follow, The girl is NOT in a coma she is brain dead which legally/medically equals dead.
Your headline says the girl is in “a coma” this is simply factually incorrect.
PBA
No it means we should all follow the same language to have a meaningful discussion.
Coma does not equal brain dead (nor vice versa) they express to different physiologic states, By any definition legal/ English or otherwise.
Nishtdaynagesheft,
while this site may be Jewish the child in question and the state of California are not so that is the basis of my statement (in this context).
The law I refer to is California H&S Code 7180-81 which adopted Uniform Determination of Death Act of 1982
Is it because they realized the age gap is nonsense?
There is no need to discuss brain death.
It is the law of the land, if you dont like it you can work to overturn it.
As the law of the land stands the kid is dead.
My point is the headline of the post is wrong, and misleading.
I’m not debating the actual point you made I think it is obvious and not even wrong.
He isn’t in a coma, he is dead.
Interestingly next year’s Thursday is even rarer day for Asarah beteves rarer still is wednesday. In fact Asarah beteves on Wed is the rarest calendar occurance only occurs only about once in 25 years on average. Whereas ASarah beteves on Friday occurs about once in five years
disagreeing with other’s call for Asifas should only be done by the Gedolim. Its not our place to just disagree without daas Torah.
DY
“The reason the minhag does follow her is probably precisely because she is the one who physically performs the mitzvah” So we agree.
(The metzitzah example is terrible as you know)
DY, it seems absurd to me that a person can have a minhag about something he doesnt do
can you think of another example?
DY, That seems absurd
Can you think of any similar example?
Torah613, I most definitely do not agree with you!
In fact for a while it bothered me that Dor yeshorim doent disclose information, They have a virtual monopoly on genetic testing in the heimishe community and then insure their survival by withholding information that I believe I have a right to know. I could not understand the harm in revealing carrier status to the carrier. Do they think we are that stupid that we cant understand High-school level biology?
But from you response I see how wrong I was, so thank you
DY
Youve misunderstood, im saying the minhag CAN’T follow the man because he doesn’t have a minhag in this regard.
DY, dor yesharim increases the carrier rate since it minimizes the chance of 2 carriers marrying each other and ending their line. Lets take Tay sachs as an example. Once upon a time in a population where by some estimates 1/25-30 is a carrier for tay sachs some would marry each other and have several of their children die Rch”l taking the “defective” gene with them. Now however virtually all carriers go on to reproduce succesfully, this however (over time)leads to an increase in the gene frequency rate.
statistically half of a carrier’s children will be carriers as well, all will survive. If the carriers dont marry other carriers the carrier rate frequency will increase over time.
DY of course it is his mitzvah. He however genrerally doesnt have any minhagim how to light ie on the rare occasion that he may have lit he didnt wave his hands he didnt say any tefilah he didnt light based on the number of kids he may have had etc etc etc ditto for any other minhagim regarding candle lighting.
Its pashut that when she adopts practices for which her husband has no minhag she would do as her mother does.
Note that R’ Yaakov Emden doesnt bring a raayah that she followed her mother, it is pashut he just states it as fact.
Dy that doesnt make any sense. I get the idea of adopting husband’s minhagim since its not practical for a family to practice different sets of minhagim. But the husband doesnt have a minhag regarding lighting candles, his mother does and she would follow her mother’s etc.
The husband generally doesnt have a minhag how to light candles. Why would the new wife adopt her husband’s mother’s minhag?
OOmis its simple. You dont like fleishigs in the morning because it would make you felishigs for most of the waking day. You wouldnt be able to have a regular coffee etc… (and as a result after years of avoiding mean in the morning the idea of eating meat doesnt sit well)
Goyim obviously dont have this concern thus grow up eating “fleishigs” for breakfast.
I would go for the more traditional milchigs meal instead of the modern fleishigs.
WIY, Unless you are fasting Shabbos day, you do in fact eat lunch.(As you should be so don’t feel bad)
nem621
Aderaba! In Al hanisim all we mention is the military victory there is no mention of the nes pach shemen. (At best there is an indirect mention of “vehidliku neiros bechatzros kodshecha” but the thust is clearly on military)
DY, agreed!
So technically as Live right heard on the news that “we celebrate Hannukah to commemorate the strength and bravery of the Maccabim” Is in fact correct, as Ive pointed out to him/her. Although granted that it reeks of “kochi v’otzem yodi”
DY Not quite, (though we may be arguing semantics)
Thanking Hashem for the military victory is inherently celebrating military strength.
Lets use the nes pach shemen as an example since it is less politically charged.
would you say
“Thanking Hashem for the oil lasting 8 days is completely different than celebrating the oil lasting 8 days.” (I’m using your words
I absolutely did ask him, and this is what he said and I quote verbatim:
?. ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????. ????? ??? ?????? ????????? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ????? ????? ??????. ??? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ????:
?. ??????? ????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??”? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ????:
?. ????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ?”? ?????? ??? ???? ????
…
Becasue of the above (ie the military victory and the nes pach shemen) we celebrate days of SIMCHA and halel.
Live right, I did ask a rabbi. His name is Rabbi Moshe Ben Maiman. You dont need to be a yeshiva bachur to hear what he has to say. His works are available in English, even online.
Sorry it was meant for Liveright (Thogh you agreed so feel free to answer too)
s/he said “did you guys all know that we celebrate Hannukah to commemorate the strength and bravery of the Maccabim???? that’s what they’ve been saying on the news. so if you agree, go talk to a rabbi. whos Orthodox”
To which I replied:
I did know that; it is a beferish Rambam. See the very first 3 halachos on chanuka. Why, did you have another more “correct” celebration in mind that isnt mentioned in the Gemara or Rishonim?
LAB
I did know that its a beferish Rambam, the very first 3 halachos on chanuka. Why did you have another more “correct” celebration in mind that isnt mentioned in the Gemara or Rishonim
um cherrybim chazal made the connection, Im not sure why your rav didnt pick up on it.
The theme of chanuka is, as we say in al hanissim, “lehodos ulehalel” Which roughly translated mens to GIVE THANKS and praise
I do
I heard from R’ Reisman beshem R’ Tzadok of lublin That why is the best thing we can do to cool off gehenom, you’d think by being so careful youd’ avoid gehenom?
He explained these people are very annoying so they are going to gehenom, but because it is leshem shomayim as a reward it is cooled off
Here to help!
“What the heck is a Chinese auction”
Its when “bidders” buy raffles for a chance to win the prizes, thus they arent actually bidding n anything.
“and how exactly are they Chinese?”
They arent
” Do the Chinese traditionally practice this form of auction”
No
“(which might mean it’s a practice of the goyim therefore some might think that we should abstain”
It wouldnt, but anyway it isnt
Once you are financially comfortable enough that you (and your children) are not a burden on society/others then it is appropriate to learn half a day and work half a day
WIY
with 800,000 + people at the levaya the odds of there being a few loons is 100%
Jewishness, 2 things
1) There are many Jewish values I’m not sure why you are focussing on two particular ones. Open a navi They didnt spend the bulk of their time preaching about the values you focus on. Helping the poor almanos, etc comes first.
2) The torah does not consider abortion murder, thats the catholic view.
To answer OP’s question:
No, sadly
Im not saying those people are right, but your argument is silly.
why do people say Lam instead of lamb or wimen instead of women
chest pain that lasted a week wont get you seen in the Er right away. In their view (rightly or wrongly) If it waited a week it could (and will) wait several more hours. You will probably get an EKG right away someoe will glance at it and asuming their are no obvious changes (which is most likely the case) You will have a long wait. You are better off going to your PMD.
Yes to almost all your questions.
There is a wide spectrum of orthodox jewry out there. It doesnt sound like yeshivish is for you.
Be happy for your friend. Mazel tov! what is done is done, now they are getting married wish them the best.
May they build a bayis neeman biysiroel.
As for your kids if their old enough to ask they are old enough to know. Doesnt mean its a good idea B”H it worked (so far) for them may it continue.
I think you overpaid. My esrog came with a free cardboard case. And I have a lulav case that probably cost $2.
This discussion is absurd. Of course the Gemara is roundabout and long winded. If you want to see what an abridged version of the gemara would look like turn to the back look at the similarly laid out pages written by the Rif. Part of what he is doing is removing the shkla vetarya and leaving just the conclusions behind.
If he doesnt like the “give and take” (depending on his age)encourage him to learn something more direct. PErhaps halacha is more his cup of tea. There si a big Torah out there, there is somehting for everybody
doverin
According to almost all kofin doesnt mean you can force, it means beis din.
secondly speaking of midas sedom, please dont justify trespassing. You are in a rush and dont care about rules governing private property? Gezuntehiet. Please dont drei the Torah to justify it
Since Tashlich is a Minhag performed, how can one be over gezeila [an Issur mi’d’Orraisso] by parking on someone’s private property, just to fulfill a Minhag of Tashlich?
That’s funny 147 I for one cant fathom how anyone can compare an eruv tavshilin which occurs at most a few times a year to eating a daily breakfast
Im glad we can agree. I’d end with the following:
This isnt about which is worse, neither to society and certainly not to the indiviudal (even sight seen I’d feel uncomfortbale saying who was suffering more). The discussion is about which is more terrifying and to that end I’d say cancer is both because it’s prevelance (proably incidence is what is really terrifying) as well as how it affects all age groups. This is part of why the mere mention of the disease sends fear into anybody’s heart probably more so than other diseases and why some in our community wont even mention it.
Writer soulit doesnt need one. The question was whetehr it was warrented or if cancer just another disease like pneumoina or depression.
To that end I pointed out that cancer (actusally a collection of different diseases) is worse than other diseases for two reasons discussed earlier. ESRD is not among the leading causes of death in children while the boy you know is obviously a very sad case it has no relevance to the two points i mentioned earlier
writersoul, what differentiates cancer is one its pervasive nature (which is cheating because cancer is more of a group of diseases than a disease, it is more comparable to kidney disease than to ESRD.) Cancer is among the leading causes of death in ALL age groups. ESRD isnt nor are ALS depression and other diseases mentioned thus far.
PErhaps what causes cancer to stand out even more than the above is how it often will presnt with vague or even no symptoms. Nobody wakes up one day and has ESRD it is a long process of kidney faiure (generally). Some cancers such as pancreatic cancer present as vague abdominal pain perhaps some weight loss, and next thing an otherwise healthy 50 year old is told he has(on average) less than a year to live. I dont think it is ahrd to understand why this helps make the thought of cancer terrifying to the point that it has this stigma associated with it.
Im not saying it is good that it has this stigma, but that it is understandable and even deserved
moi
“cancer is just like any other sickness. “
while a nice sentiment, however it is simply not true. Unfortunately I have had to tell quite a few people that they have cancer. Not once has the reply been “Oh so you mean its like I have pneumonia but different”