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davy – “where can i get the Pinchik R”H davening?”
Do you means an entire album of R”H, or pieces?
tzippi – are you referring to AZ?
I’m sorry, but since I seek only emes, I couldn’t control myself and had to find out directly: What were the RY70’s intentions regarding the signed Moda’ah? Was it an eitza tova? Was it a directive? Was it a l’chatchila versus a b’dieved?
So I posed this question today to the gabai of one of the top Roshei Yeshiva on the Roshei Yeshiva list.
Jothar – Funny how the Agudah have Chazzonim at their large functions.
Go to any Chazzonis concert, with and without t’fila, and you’ll see a vast majority of chassidim; hardly what you would call modern Orthodox.
All the great shuls, including the Safardeshe Shul in Boro Park had Chazzanim, hardly what you would call modern Orthodox.
If chazzanis was inspirational then, it is inspirational now.
EDITED
The chazzanim were Lefkowitz, Shulhoff, Taube. Let’s not reveal the community, ok?
Phyllis – “many marriedd pple just cant understand their single friends”
You mean because they’re self centered?
Mr. Moderator, tear down this thread!
Cantoresq – Interesting.
And where I grew up (45,000 Jewish Population), of the two large Orthodox shuls, one always had a renowned chazzan and the other one had a chazzan for the Yomim Norayim and Tovim. The large Conservative one had a renowned Orthodox chazzan and in the winter months, after the Friday night meal, many of us Orthodox would go to the Conservative synagogue to hear the chazzan.
I also remember years back that at Temple Emmanuel in Boro Park, the balcony would be full on Shabbos mornings with frum men including many chassidim who wanted to hear Dovid Koussevitzky.
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Since the Mod deleted my last response to cantoresq, I’ll change course.
There’s a great on-line internet site for chazzonis called: The Charlie Bernhaut Show. The program comes on at 9PM every Monday evening. The first hour is a mixture of all kinds of Jewish music and the second hour is exclusively for chazzonis.
artchill – You’re probably right about the Rabbi part. And you’re also right that any Shidduch that comes about because someone is offered a little money; that Shidduch has problems.
And even the “760” that NASI claims; anybody in the community verifying that? And at $2,000 per marriage, that’s about $1.5 million doled out to the couples. In addition: overhead, salaries, advertisements, transportation and air fare, meetings, hotels, restaurants, studies, so now you’ve got a “budget” of several million. Not a bad business and getting funds off the fear of loneliness.
Az – when it comes to yichus and money, age is not a factor. But i don’t see these roshei yeshiva instituting ant rules for their yeshivos nor their families.
There have been rabbonim who married older girls who came from yichus and were worthy but that is not the norm and the hamone om doesn’t go for it and never will.
AZ – “But YES plenty of them have and imy”h will continue to do so”
OK AZ, name one.
“The Chatham sofer ruled that there is no basis to unfrock a rabbi based upon his personal conduct, no matter how offensive that conduct may be”
cantoresq – Do you think infrequent distractions that may cause someone to talk while putting on tefillin or not to wash neigel vasser or to speak between netilas yadayim and hamotzi is the same as being a 24/7 chazzer fresser? Are you saying that the Chasam Sofer would paskin that there is no basis to unfrock a chazer fresser Rabbi?
ronrsr – “most of those …figures were inflated”
Hmm AZ, where did I hear that before?
AZ – “70 calling for it”
Oh, tell me again AZ, which of the so called 70 had their boys marry older girls and girls marry younger boys?
What, not even one; can’t be! What are they actually calling for?
AZ – I think first you’ve got to make the point that there are more girls than boys available. Just because they are not married, does not mean that they want to get married.
Also, even if what you are saying is true; in the area of shidduchin, Hashem is the authority over that; He is m’shaddeich z’vugim and He made the reality what it is today. We think that hishtadlus is in order for shidduchin, but unlike parnosa, that’s not the case. The torah does not teach us that the Avos were mispallel for shidduchin.
So don’t double guess how and why Hashem wants things done.
cantoresq – What do you think of a Rabbi who is not “fully observant”; same thing? By the way, nice choice of words to make your point of the frei chazzan; I prefer “chazar fresser”.
charliehall – Correct, except that the ordinary fellow has a chezkas kashrus. The chezkas kashrus goes out the window when the chazzan is a known non- observant.
“I was, at the time, under thirty years old and unmarried. The rabbi paskened that since the majority of the congregation wants me to daven…”
So cantoresq, you’re saying that hiring a chazzan that’s less than thirty years old and unmarried is the same as hiring a chazzan chazar fresser? That’s what the Chazon Ish and Rema paskins?
cantoresq – Care to cite where the Chazon Ish and Rema paskin that one may davin in a place that hires a chazar fresser chazzan as a shaliach tzibur because he/she has a terrific inspiring voice?
cantoresq – Are you saying that the Chazon Ish and Rema paskins that a non-frum chazzan, vus dee publik vil, merutze l’kehal, overrides a frum chazzan that he has outvoted?
Sorry cantoresq, but a chazzan is a talented shaliach tzibor, not a performer or artist; those are descriptions not found in the Shulchan Aruch.
If you’re writing in English, what wrong with Dear Rabbi________,.
Rabbonim and Roshei Yeshiva always went by Rabbi and their English name, i.e., Rabbi Moses Feinstein, Rabbi Jacob Ruderman, and Rabbi Joel Teitlbaum, etc.
Cherrybim – “I heard that the gr’a and others maintain that without the understanding of music theory, one cannot truly do a proper davening.”
The same holds true for poetry.
Dr. Pepper – Why all the walking on egg shells with AZ? It’s as clear as day; AZ is N.A.S.I. and they are not being totally honest with the public. Donor Beware!
feivel – I heard that the gr’a and others maintain that without the understanding of music theory, one cannot truly do a proper davening.
bein_hasdorim – That’s ok. But the crisis is much deeper than you can imagine because there are also many single girls who are a lot frumer than the boys available and also more educated. So what goes for older and taller and heavier also goes for women who are frumer and smarter.
So we have emergency here and we need leaders who are willing to address this issue with are the seriousness it deserves because we need drastic measures in these desperate times.
Jothar – No appreciation for Yiddish or Chazanis; you probably prefer Malaga over Merlot and hamburger over steak.
And you also have shadchanim who will irresponsibly suggest a thin girl for a heavy boy, thereby taking another heavy boy off the market.
Some have also suggested that we convince boys to date girls heavier than them, but it is hard to overcome the natural desire of a man to feel dominant in a marriage, and being the heavier of the two contributes to that feeling.
However, it is clearly very important that we urge the shadchanim to make extra efforts on behalf of the heavy girls, and, conversely, consider thin girls only when dealing with a very skinny boy.
In this way we may somewhat redress the imbalance that has crept into the shidduch world.
I also plan to ask AZ to also go around to Roshei Yeshiva and ask them to sign a Kol Korei on this matter; as soon as AZ can get all the Bais Yaakovs in the US to give N.A.S.I. statistics on how many heavy unmarried girls they have among their alumni.
How in the world are you advocating a theory that was cobbled together by some armature hobbyist?
Since when are actuaries, demographers? And which actuary conducted the study?
Are you now crediting Avi Chai with conducting your study? Is Dr. Marvin Schick in agreement with your deductions and projections?
Who deduced it?
Is that another one of your deductions?
AZ, you seem to know every little detail about N.A.S.I. and the report and about the signers except the most important answers: How the numbers that you manipulated came about; which statistical methods were used; which experts surveyed the Jewish female population and published the study.
Are you saying that you took these numbers from N.A.S.I. without any further investigation as to these very vital items? Or are you the source of these numbers? Either way, would you have us believe that the signers read the study and were provided with these answers?
You seen to have all the answers except when put on the spot, then you instruct the poster to contact N.A.S.I., which is you.
How about some direct answers for a change?
Dr. Pepper – “I said that numbers themselves do not lie”.
You are correct when dealing with truthful and real numbers, which is not the case here.
AZ – Stop with the phoniness already.
feivel – “the shiur is derived from how many times a horse breathes a certain number of breaths.”
My wife says that I sleep like a horse. I’ll ask her to count my breaths per minute and I’ll let you know.
Everything else aside, my only point was that given the reality of human nature, at least one has the benefit of proper hygienic care.
No AZ, it is you and your made up unaccountable numbers that are wrong.
MM – you can’t have it both ways.
MM, I met my Rav about twenty years ago, one of the best things that have ever happened to me. I wish it occurred 30 years ago. I have a two tiered family which reflects when the Rav entered our lives.
Anyway, to answer your question:
When I came to Brooklyn, there were huge populations of young people, male and female, with basement apartments in Boro Park. That was the “with it” place to be. Although I had learned in a renowned “out-of-town” yeshiva, as did my roommates, I transferred to Brooklyn College and learned in one of the local smaller yeshivos.
The local Boro Park custom was that after the seuda Friday night, the entire length of Thirteenth Avenue was crowded with frum people walking, greeting, schmoozing, meeting, very innocent and relaxed. The same scene was transferred to Fourteenth Avenue the next day after the seuda.
There was no hanky panky and yeshivos did not issue restrictions and no one ever heard of a kol korei in those days.
Hashem ways don’t always coincide with a sudden spiritual happening; many times it evolves into the eventual hashgacha.
Mezonos Maven – “That’s because you now are living in a Makom Torah.”
A Makom Torah is where you make it so.
You can be living in Brooklyn your entire life with a kosher pizza shop down the block and a Rebbe as your neighbor on one side and a bais medrish on the other; and still be not frum.
So it’s basically my opinion that Hashem has a large cheilik in who is chosen to be a candidate for frumkeit.
Mezonos Maven
Member
cherry, Actually I have to disagree with you and agree with the mods. The premise of your deleted “joke” was that frum guys are doing something to be more attractive to unknown girls on a bus. This premise itself is unacceptable, and indeed the issue the OP raised on this thread.
What’s OP?
The reality is however, the reality. The male population, whether me or yeshiva bochrim or our elderly, when placed in a mixed setting we will be more attentive to our hygiene requirements.
MaKesher – “I feel really bad for all the out of towners who live in brooklyn”
Please don’t. We’re fine.
telegrok’s wife – “his penalty for wearing dirty tzitzis is no kneidlach on shabbos”
That’s cruel and unusual punishment, but it could be worse.
EDITED
jphone – “Perhaps we should make sure that all riders are within 2 years of each other. This way, we can perhaps facilitate shidduchim.
I think I will discuss this with the bus drivers on the B11, a little shadchanus and these drivers might even cooperate. 1st 4 rows are for those 19-21. Next 4 rows for those 22-24 and so on.”
EDITED
It was Yosef’s choice to to be buried in Eretz C’naan. It was the Bresslover Rebbe’s choice to be buried and to stay in Uman.
Josh31 – Someone forgot to tell 25,000 making the annual pilgrimage to Uman.
AZ – Before I had a strong feeling; now I’m convinced.
Jothar – “How do you investigate someone on the spot and know if his son really is in the icu or he just married off 4 daughters?”
Either you hear it from the Rav or if the collector comes to home, this is the perfect time to use your social and logical thinking skills. You can ask a few questions in a concerned nice way and see if the pieces fall into place. Try asking personal questions especially name and address, don’t forget they have yours. You are in essence both the Vaad investigator and the comforter at once. If you are satisfied that the need is legitimate, be generous with your gift.
Dr. Pepper – “Numbers don’t lie, they are what they are. The way they are presented is what may trick people”
So they do lie.
“I do know that the principle makes it his business to be at the weddings of as many of his students as possible.”
This is a poor way of conducting a statistical survey and the results would be meaningless. In addition, school personnel come and go and many graduates do not keep ties with the school for many various reasons. To conduct a meaningful study the researcher must use accepted methodology and research standards.