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But the Torah does not actually ban it, only frowns upon it, so according to both versions of your statement, you are calling the Torah immoral.
You can still retract or clarify.
“Any law that allows this behavior without another law or moral code banning this behavior is immoral and should be changed.”
So the Torah is only moral if another law bans hunting, but otherwise not, ch”v? In the US, where hunting is legal, the Torah should be changed, ch”v?
Do you still stand by your statement that Any law that allows this behavior is immoral and should be changed. and the implication that this includes Torah law?
You can post what R’ Ovadia said a thousand times, it doesn’t change what you wrote which taken at face value is apikorsus:
Any law that allows this behavior is immoral and should be changed.
You should either retract or clarify that statement.
Rav Ovadia didn’t say that halachah is immoral because it allows hunting. You did.
See above.
I had missed your answer, sorry.
I disagree, it doesn’t make the point that human needs take precedence over animal needs, it makes the point that human beings are cruel to animals even without any pressing need, and must be stopped entirely.
Whereas, if we only use animals in ways which Hashem approves of, we can rightfully take the high moral ground.
Do you also think it’s okay to endanger yourself to make a political point? (Look at the teshuvah to see what I refer to.)
No.
So then you do see that parnassah is more important than a political point.
Reference was to sakanah, not political points. Now would you please answer my questions?
Yes, dentist dude wouldn’t be issur, just achzarius.
The ikkar is that I got you to learn something besides daf yomi.
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Why is it less of a good reason than parnassah?
Do you also think it’s okay to endanger yourself to make a political point? (Look at the teshuvah to see what I refer to.)
What point is being made anyhow – that the animal rights activists are wrong, and we’ll prove it by acting cruelly to animals?
apushatayid, Yes, if I would get a phonecall from TAG, I would be happy to “sponsor a filter”.
Why wait for a phone call? Call them! Offer to sponsor 100 filters!
The paid filters are better than the free ones. They cover more loopholes.
The last time I spoke with someone from TAG, the only time they charged was if they installed a paid filter, where it wasn’t their charge, but the filter company’s charge.
Your thread title is misleading and unfair. Your question should be, “Why can’t TAG lose money so I don’t have to pay for my ruchniyus?”.
I am not advocating changing the law. I am objecting to popa’s statement: You should davka hunt to keep it clear that human life and needs are more important.
I’m fairly sure that it’s fair to say that the gemara says it’s not fair to say that.
No, I will continue to advocate against Maharats.
So maybe the Americans going to hunt there don’t have that intention, but perhaps you should think of it when advocating against them?
Let me get this straight – you want me to support ??????? because people make a living from ??????? Maybe we should support Maharats because the janitors in the Maharat Institute make a living from it?
But we’re really talking about doing things that develop your middos sensitives, which is really what the entire corpus of the 613 is about. So again, do you think it is appropriate for a goy to do shiluach haken?
????? ?”?
?? ?? ???? ????? ?????…?????? ????
?? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????
??? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?????..
??? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ???????
I don’t support ???????.
But why do you assume that thousands of people saying ??? ???? ??? ???? would be a z’chus for them?
First you complained about gentile ceremonies, but then you complained about Kaddish, which is far from a gentle ceremony.
Maybe it doesn’t hurt the neshama of the niftar (saying Kaddish on the wrong day) but it sure doesn’t help.
Why wouldn’t it help?
If someone doesn’t know his parents’ yahrtzeit, he says Kaddish on a random day (usually a taanis). Wouldn’t you agree that it helps?
Popa:
The Noda B’Yehuda says it’s the wrong thing the do even if it’s not technically assur.
Yes, I assume the concept applies to B’nei Noach, and to our support of it being done, even by B’nei Noach.
I’m not walking around with a sign protesting against hunting, I’m just not making a shittah out if supporting it.
Here’s the N”B:
http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14662&st=&pgnum=100&hilite=
Yes, I’m talking about hunting for sport.
we should support the right to go hunting
I’m not supporting the right to do something immoral.
Hunting does not save human life, nor is it a human need. It is, in fact generally frowned upon in Yiddishkeit; there’s a famous Noda BiYehudah on this.
Hunting give the animal rights wackos ammunition against the normal uses of animals, so we should be against it.
????? ???? ???????? ????? ??????? – ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?”?, ??? ??????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???, ???? – ????? ?????
???? ?????? ???? ????? ?????
Yes, Sam, sevara can be considered Torah sheba’al peh, so LF is correct.
Unless you want to draw the line at some generation. Would you say eilu v’eilu for Rishonim? Acharonim?
You would need to prove your chilluk before launching an attack based on your own self drawn line.
You can apply Eilu V’eilu here.
:??”? ??????? ?”?. ??”? ??”?
??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ????
http://beta.hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=15&daf=57&format=pdf
Sam, where do you want to draw the line as to where we say Divrei Elokim Chaim? There is a gemara which applies it to the words said by human beings, so if you, “don’t even know what that means”, perhaps it’s your criticism which is overreaching.
Wishing she has a continued recovery.
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and you made it seem as much.
No she didn’t. She said it’s untzniyusdik, she didn’t say it says it in Shulchan Aruch. Your rant is misplaced
Nah.
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There’s a video proving there’s no DemonCrat party?
Has that been proven?
Age gap.
Really, Martians have kidnapped 10% of the Litvish girls. This has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt (thus disproving the conclusion of the age gap theory) by the fact that no study has come out saying it hasn’t happened.
I don’t think it’s technically a mitzvah haba ba’averah, the way that term is used in the sugya in Lulav Hagazul. Might be conceptually the same.
Joseph, that’s been disproven.
Veltz, has your theory that everyone here is a law student ever been proven?
You’ve just proven it. What’s to discuss?
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