☕ DaasYochid ☕

Even building fund, if required by the school, should be included. Whether or not the schools charge “ha’adafah” is a matter of debate in this thread (you’ve seen my opinion). Even if they do, since it’s required for admission, it’s an expense I need to pay for my son to learn, so it should be included.

Why ask a shailah – is it nogeia l’ma’aseh? Maybe for ma’aser?

Its hard to defend yeshivas who throw out kids whose parents do pay tutitions

I assume you mean yeshivos who throw out kids whose parents don’t pay tuition, and you just did defend them.

The problem is that some parents will not be motivated to pay tuition unless there’s a real possibility that they won’t be allowed into class.

That being said, I don’t think it happens very often at all.

ZD, firstly, that’s not true about Satmar. More importantly, there is a huge range of people who would fall under the chareidi label. Satmar are not the only chareidim.

Modern Orthodox ranges farther to the left, which is why there are more dropouts.

We’re talking about people who keep Shabbos, and want their kids to, but sadly many don’t. Rabbi Gordimer (and others) are correct to sound the alarm.

DY: I don’t see such an issue.

There are communities in which more kids go off the derech than stay on. How is that not an issue?

Our town’s education budget (which is middle of the road) is such that the annual per pupil cost is $14,000…..

Also, when a Yeshiva buys or builds a school they need to raise all the money to cover the cost. Our state reimburses municipalities about 50% of the cost of new school construction.

So the actual public school cost per student is more than $14,000, it’s just partially covered by the state.

Having been on the board of three different day schools/yeshivos, I can state that the tuition does not cover the per student cost. It is necessary to constantly fund-raise to cover overhead and improvements.

I’ve been told that by administrators and board members from NYC yeshivos as well.

Thank you for a very informative post.

Do you have a solution?

No, I do look favorably on the vacations, the fancy cars, and similar luxuries being given priority over schar limud.

I assume you mean, “do not”.

But to disallow kids to come to class because of budgetary pressure?

How often do you think this happens?

I think whether it adds to the cost is disputed.

(Example: I’m learning gemara and they quote a passuk, but I’d like to see it in context and with Rashi. I can do that very easily on my iPad.

I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me why this is a bad thing…

This doesn’t answer your question, but you could do that with a chumash.

Also, those arguing against it haven’t said there’s no benefit, just that they feel the negative outweighs it (not that I agree).

Good point. Yeshivos do have special programs, but not usually for severe cases.

Do you know what the number would be if we adjust for that?

Bk613,

NYC spent $20000 per student in public school.

Right, and the OP was talking about NYC, and says they’re asking for half that, and yeshivos have a longer schedule and pay rebbeim and secular teachers. To be fair, busing and some other things are covered by the government, but the numbers are so unbalanced that it seems your conclusion is backwards.

Still inappropriate. If a 25 year old thinks his parent(s), with his best interest at heart, more life experience and more objectivity, should be more trusted than himself, he’s not ready to get married.

Yes, that’s what I would say as well, although I don’t know that usable expected life can necessarily be predicted accurately.

I think if you include that, full tuition will just about cover the actual cost of educating a child.

What about my second question? There are related questions to ask as well: does pre-school pay less than 8th grade? According to your formula, it would. What about a mossad which contains an elementary school and a high school? A girls’ and boys’ division? Do you pay less if your child is in a large class or has a less experienced, lower salaried teacher, and more for a smaller class and more expensive teachers? Would you tweak your formula to reflect the cost of your child, rather than the average in the school?

BTW, I don’t disagree with your concept. Whatever moral/social/religious obligation there might or might not be to subsidize another’s child should be considered a contribution. The schools are claiming, though, that full tuition is the amount that covers your child’s education (and I don’t know if they figure in amortized building cost).

How do you figure annual budget – including cost of the building or not?

How do you figure cost per kid – every kid the same, or more for kids who need more resources?

I think they’ll be more than happy with that.

Will you trust them when they give you the number?

LC, I am assuming taxes, FICA, rent, etc.

Summer camp was included in the $24k I mentioned.

Rent depends on what kind of lifestyle you live. Most people don’t need a huge apartment for a couple with two kids, and rent would turn into mortgage payments.

I think all said and done, $140k gross with two kids should leave something over, unless there are some atypical expenses.

Most tuition boards would ask what kind of car you drive and how you vacation before giving a break, on the theory that the rebbeim paying their insurance on their ’05 Chevy should come before the parents’ payments on a ’16 Lexus.

I’m not asking the OP what his personal expenses and expenditures are; it’s none of my business. I’m just making a point that $140k with two kids should be more thsn enough, typically.

With more kids, or a lower income, it wouldn’t be, and that’s normally where you hear about the tuition crisis.

Perhaps this would require that they and their parents decide to send them to a Chassidische high school at age 14?

Not gonna happen.

I also mind explaining this:

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=34182&st=&pgnum=13&hilite=

(I mind because I don’t understand Kabbalah.)

I know that tuition is burdensome, but I don’t understand your numbers. If you’re earning $140,000 per year, why is $24,000 breaking the bank?

Also, having spoken to several administrators, I believe that it really does cost the tuition fee to educate your child, and the parents who can’t afford full or close to full tuition are being subsidized by the donations given to the yeshivos.

I really hope those aren’t our choices.

I didn’t say He couldn’t, but He didn’t, as it says in the Torah.

Also see ????? ???”? on ??”?.

That’s your incorrect diyuk. ?”? is clearly not like that.

Something which is ???? ????? is ???? ??????

(See ‘?”? ?”? ?)

He seems to only be ???? where there is a ????.

How are you understanding?