☕ DaasYochid ☕

Way was the previous thread title?

Health: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/cynical

Is Popa Cynical?

Agav, your response to shitzy was gadlus.

But should you teach them that at the expense of teaching good middos and to not be power hungry and petty, and to not get upset when people don’t get upset when people don’t bow to youw whims, and to not use the Torah as a tool for achieving your selfish desires?

Of course not.

Perhaps a little balance?

Perhaps a lot.

And I will tell you how to teach him to obey Hashem. You obey Hashem.

That is #1. But there’s more.

I don’t think we’re disagreeing much about parenting here, but I see you as having jumped all over the OP and subsequent posters who think there’s an important part of chinuch called discipline, and that that was unfair. I think it’s fair to discuss discipline and obedience, and it doesnt have to mean to the exclusion of other forms of chinuch, and there is no reason to think that they all want obedience for selfish reasons.

The issue is that you think you have a right for your kids to be “obeying or willing to obey; complying with or submissive to authority.” You don’t.

I agree with that, but despite not having the “right” to have obedient children, I have the obligation to try and be mechanech them to be obedient.

The parents who are hung up on having their kids “obey” them make ridiculous demands, and the kids learn that the parents have their own interests in mind, and then don’t obey anything.

You are all terrible people and terrible parents, and it is your fault that your kids are all keeping half shabbos and going OTD.

Obedient? Defiant? These are words you use when talking about your kids? Is your kid a pet dog or a horse or a slave that you expect obedience from? Who says you are entitled to obedience from your kids? Who says they shouldn’t defy you?

You find it annoying when they don’t obey? Too bad on you–your kids’ job is not to make your happy. Your job is to take care of your kids and give to them without expectation of return–just like Hashem gives to us without expectation of return.

When your newborn cries all night and won’t stop–you take care of him anyway and love him just the same. Well, that’s how you should treat your 20 year old who sneaks out Friday night and drinks beer with his buddies.

Where did the OP say its about kids going OTD? Maybe she’s talking about a toddler ? Why the rant?

You did notice who wrote those comments, did you not?

We should probably be more respectful of how other people live even if it is not within the confines of halacha.

You probably didn’t mean that part the way it was written.

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14587&st=&pgnum=158&hilite=

Very useful thread. I’ll just read through the sources and then I’ll decide who is right

If this is anything like the iyun thread, you’ll never end up deciding.

You’re right, of course, about the lack of relevance of the sources. The ??? ???? which I quoted already said that it’s a matter of ????? ???, so it’s clearly something which needs to work according to the needs of the generation.

??”? ???? ???? ???? ?

????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ????’ ??? ??????? ????? ?????”? ?”? ??????? ?????? ?”? ?”? ????? ?? ???? ????”? ?? ????’ ????? ?????? ??????? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ???????? ????? ????? ??????

???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ?? ???’ ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ?’ ????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ?? ????? ??”? ???”? ?? ???? ?? ?? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??’ ????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??’ ??? ????? ????? ??’ ?”? ?????

Also DY: haven’t you ever read a dan l’af zchus story where the guy is fressing chazer and also tells you he doesn’t have an ulcer and he isn’t starving to death and his doctor said he’d better stay away from chazer, and there’s nobody who told him he’d better eat it or he’s dead?

Is this the one you’re talking about?:

Rabbi Goldberg sees Yankel in shul, and tells him, “Yankel, we have to talk”.

“What is it, Rabbi”?

“I saw you eating in a treif restaurant yesterday”.

“Rabbi, you’ve got to be dan me l’kaf z’chus, like you always talk about in your drashos”.

“Yankel, I wish I could, but I saw the whole thing. I saw you walk in, I saw it was a treif restaurant. I checked the menu; they sell all sorts of treif things like chazzer, shellfish, cholov stam, and Twizzlers without a sticker. I saw you order chazzer roast, I saw you eating it, and I saw you paying for it with your American Express card which you use every year to donate money to the shul on Small Business Saturday. So tell me Yankel, how can I possibly be dan you l’kaf z’chus?”

“Easily”, says Yankel, “the whole thing was under rabbinical supervision!”

Boy, its like you folks have never read a dan l’kaf zchus story.

Harumph….as if we all accused you of being mechallel Shabbos. I said you were “carrying on”, ivory said you were carrying yourself, hashtagposter said, ” #!”, and 29 said you were in rishus hayochid (then I made a dumb joke about you not being in my rishus).

These were all more reasonable innocent explanations than that you had an ulcer.

Also, make up your mind; was it a karmelis, or r’shus horabbim?

I’m also confused. Sam is popa, and popa is Wolf? Does that mean Sam is Wolf?

Was this during leining?

Ivory, yes, but I couldn’t decide which one.

147, don’t forget eruv tavshilin.

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DaMoshe, I agree, but that’s not my point.

You should not be telling your son in his 20s who he can and cannot be friends with. If he asks your advice, that’s one thing — but you cannot order him around with regard to his friends.

The Wolf

Should you be telling the OP how he should or shouldn’t deal with his son?

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-i-wont-let-my-kids-do-%d7%92%d7%9c%d7%99%d7%9c%d7%94#post-275759

I won’t make a generalization; I think some can gain from it. I don’t like that going overseas is the default.

The idea of girls running around to random homes, for example, their roommate’s third cousin, for Shabbos, does bother me, as well as the fact that the already skimpy piece of chicken has to be divided into that many more parts.

I wasn’t referring to the guide, I was referring to your reference to the Ami article.

Better yet, they should go home for Shabbos.

Does Harry Potter wear techeiles?

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