Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
+2
PBA, and the size of the passengers.
ROB, I never claimed that every Tanna and Amora knew every sod. In fact, I clearly said otherwise. What I did say is precisely what is clear from those gemaras, that Hashem has many ways of revealing information to Chaza”l. The important thing is that they know the correct facts to pasken; it’s not important whether it’s through personal experience or direct Divine revelation.
I don’t really think it’s important to define the term hashkofa; I don’t think we should assume we know better than Chaza”l in any area.
However, if someone thinks they know better than Chaza”l the severity of punishment deserved for a particular aveirah, that’s particularly egregious.
Why can’t I pay someone elses tuition as a scholarship and they can pay my tuition as a scholarship.
Because the IRS reads Yeshiva World.
ROB, the discussion began with your assertion that Chaza”l could ch”v err in hashkofa, which is not a legitimate shittah, and then went on a tangent about Chaza”l erring in science.
The Gemara actually applies Sod Hashem Li’yereiov to the chachomim’s understanding of the physical world. See Sotah 4b and Sanhedrin 48b for two examples.
ZD, thousands of Yidden spend their summers in Sullivan County, and casinos there will tempt some of them.
I don’t know who wrote it; I brought it because the first answer is something similar I once heard from an acquaintance of mine, and he also mentions the nireh l’aynayim pshat. I haven’t yet actually read through the entire thing.
I also didn’t like the motive the author ascrobes to the opposing view; I don’t think he knows it’s a legitimate shittah. He’s probably only heard it from kofrim.
ZD, no, but it will add casinos in Sullivan County.
That depends on how many wheels.
Found on Hidabroot:
A: ????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ???. ????? ??? ??? ????? ???”? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ????? (??? ?? ??, ?) “????? ????? ??? ????”, ?? ????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ????? “????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????”! ????? ???? ???? ????? ??”? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ?”???? ??? ?????? ???? ?????” – ????? ??”? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?????! ?????? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?????: “???? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ???, ?????? ?????? ????”. ??? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ???? ???”? ???? ??????? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ??????, ????? ???? ??????? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ??????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? (??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?????), ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ???????? (???, ?, ?) ????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ???.
????? ??? ?????? ?? ????, ????? ?????. ???? ??????? ?????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??????, ?????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ????. ?????? ?????, ????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? (??????, ??, ????) ???? ???? ????? ?????? ????. ????? ??, ???? ?????? ???????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ??? “??? ????”, ???? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ????.
????? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ????? ??: ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??????, ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ????? ????. ????? ??? ???? ?????: ??????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ?????, ?? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ????, ??? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ?????. ????? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ????, ????? ?????? ??????, ???? ?????? ???????? ???? ??????? ?? ??????? ????????, ?? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ????.
?? ?? ?????? ???, ???? ?????? ?? ?? ??? ?????? (???? ???? ???????? ????? ????? ???) ??? ????? ???????? ?? ???? ????? ????. ????? ???, ???? ?????? ?? ???? ?????, ??????? ???? ?????? ?”???? ?????” ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?????. ?? ??, ????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?????? “????? ?? ???? ????? ????” (?? ????? ??”?, ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??????: “???? ???? ??? ?????”).
????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ???. ????? ????? (??, ?”?) ???? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ??????. ????? ????? ????? ?? ?? ?????. ????? ?????: “??? ?? ?? ??????”. ????”? ????? ?? ?????: “???? ??????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ?????, ????? ??? ???? ??? ??, ??? ???? ???? ????”.
??? ????? ?????? ???????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???, ??? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ????, ?? ????? ????? ?????? (???? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??????) ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???????.
?? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???????, ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?”????? ??????” ?? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????? ??????.
– ????? ?????? ???? ?? “????? ??????” ???? ??? ????? ??????, ??????: ?? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ??????.
???? ?????? (?? ???? ?-150 ???) ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ???, ????? ???? ????? ?????? ????, ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? – ??? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? (???? ??? ???? ??, ???? ??):
“???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??, ??? ????? ???? ???????, ??? ?? ??, ??? ??? ???????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???, ??? ???? ???? ???? ????”. ??? ????: ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ????, ??? ????? ???? ????…!
Sam, as I said, there are kashyas. Lice has been debated, well as other cases, with multiple teirutzim (one along the lines of what you said, that “??? ????” doesn’t translate to scientific male/female reproduction). How far you’re willing to stretch to accept a teirutz depends on your version of emunas chachomim.
Where is R’ SZ”A quoted on this?
ROB, Tannaim and Amoroim.
The question at the end of the OP was, “any thoughts?”, so all is fair game.
In theory, R’ Brody is probably right. We wouldn’t have to take medications for physical ailments either, is we were on that madreiga. Are we, though? I think I’ll agree with R’ Twerski that we’re not.
I don’t know the right answer; I’d probably squeeze a third in, but I don’t know how anyone could call you selfish for making sure your passengers are comfortable.
Maybe she’s secretly using the money to subsidize cleaning help for an unfortunate newly married, expectant woman whose husband refuses to pay for s cleaning lady?
WIY, I think Rose Bank might be a good shidduch for Mort Lach.
driftwood
Sod Hashem Liyreiov doesn’t mean He tells them every sod, but He does tell them the facts needed for a correct psak. If they figured it out through their own science but got it wrong, He sent the chachmei ho’umos as shlichim to give them the right information.
You don’t need to ask a kashya from chachmei ho’umos; if individual members of Chaza”l were infallible, how could there be a machlokes amongst them in these inyanim?
The teirutz is the same; it’s not that individual chachomim are infallible; as great as they are, they’re still bosor vodom. Hashem, however, doesn’t let them err when it would cause an error in halacha.
We’re not talking about single malt whiskey?
DY: That’s more of a problem, then. How could Chazal be Chozer if their original Shittah came from a Mesorah from Sinai/Torah Sheba’al Peh? How could they have been wrong in the first place?
I don’t know why ??? ?’ ?????? would need to be from a mesorah; Hashem has many ways of revealing things, whether through experience, speaking to contemporaries, drashos, sevaros or Ruach Hakodesh. The only guarantee is that the end result, as stated in Mishnah or Gemara, is accurate.
15.
I like Glenlivet.
APY, about 15 months. 🙂
Yes, VM is correct.
“agree to hire one until 68 weeks after the baby is born”
I hope that wasn’t a typo.
Sam, there are kashyas, but that particular gemara never really bothered me because l’maskana they agreed.
Oomis, different answers, I guess.
Gamanit, I think the time shows up according to when it was sent, but thanks.
You’re right, the freshness was nine minutes, but that refers to the time from the most recent post. So it must have taken 2-3 minutes from when I saw the front page until I hit send.
As another example, Dati Leumi communities, even those which are meticulous in Halacha, define themselves (to borrow your term) by wearing kippot srugot, though the color and material of a kippah is non halachic.
I started writing it at 9 minutes.
This is the first time in 147 years that the title, last poster, and # of posts all were only numbers.
I guess it will happen in another year.
(Posted when the thread was 9 minutes old.)
Rf, it would have to be that way. Tzitzis can’t define a specific frum community precisely because it is halachic, so all from communities wear them.
A1000, some people have changed their opinions in some matters, but haven’t changed their overall hashkofa.
ROB, if Chaza”l identified the reason for a punishment, we don’t question it. You’re practically bringing them down to your level when you say that if you don’t know the reason for punishments, then they must not either. I don’t see how that that’s not kofer b’divrei Chaza”l.
I happen to subscribe to the view that Chaza”l didn’t err in science; as the gemara itself says about this inyan, ??? ?’ ??????.
I just don’t think you can call it kefirah to hold otherwise if the Pachad Yitzchad (Lapronte) did so, although we don’t pasken like him.
I’m so sorry to hear about your loss.
Maybe you can fill in his name followed by a”h.
????? ???? ????
You can (and perhaps should) tell them not to deal with Minyan or H&J, as that is not as critical.
Nitpick: I don’t think you tell a kid (directly) not to worry about minyan. It may be appropriate, in some cases, not to be all over them about it (maybe that’s what you meant).
ROB, your response has now been published.
Sam, there is definitely some Chaza”l which is allegoric, I just don’t know if you can say it about a gemara with clear halachic implications. Would you say it about the Hahu Gavra gemaras?
We should probably apply Pascal’s wager to these inyanim, don’t you think?
Amen and thank you.
And I’m wondering why you’re wondering why I’m focused on this, beyond what I’ve stated.
Gavra,
1) Yes, I wasn’t trying to argue with you (for a change).
2) I know you’re passionate about differentiating between ikar had in and chumra, but I don’t think there’s a huge one in the context of our discussion. Halachos which are meikar had in can be used manipulatively, and chumras can be taught and implemented lovingly.
For example, if a parents wants their child to do the right thing because of
how his behavior reflects on them, the child will sense it and could rebel. If a father practices and teaches chumras out of genuine yiras shomayim, the child is likely to keep them b’simcha.
Regarding the OP as well, an at risk kid doesn’t necessarily feel any more stifled by chumras than by halachos mi’din.
3) I know you agreed, but I think you mentioned that the OP was only talking about chumras. You wrote “The issue is how to be flexible within the Torah’s guidelines.”. I understood that (maybe erroneously) to refer to the OP’s issue.
Syag, I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t recall any examples of clear, proven-al-pi-halacha, offenders being discussed here and defended. Again, maybe I just missed it.
Gavra, thank you.
Because in dealing with a terrible problem, sometimes another awful problem is created, and the innocent smeared. I know someone going through this right now, l”a
Your post isactually puzzling. If you’re talking about molesters about whom we are supposed to believe their guilt, why are their defenders not indeed nasty?
If not, why are the skeptics clueless?
Towards the end, he adds:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/song-lyrics/page/2#post-447266
Syag, maybe I missed it, but I haven’t seen anyone here opine that known cases of molestation shouldn’t be dealt with.
The only thing I’ve seen is debate over whether we should assume the guilt of sim ees one we see accused in news reports.
Not knowing that they’re molesters.
Do you have a problem with the presumption of innocence until proven guilty?
Or, to rephrase, are you referring to situations in which, according to hilchos loshon hora, one is allowed to be mekabel?
I’d be surprised to hear differently from anyone.
I guess I stand corrected.
Syag, nobody defends molestation.
No. I’d be surprised to hear differently from anyone.
T613, you’re welcome.