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What’s up with coffee room spelling nowadays??
Chosson:
Besides that she, along with many others, got a heter.
I think any type of clothing is ok if no men (other than immediate family members) will walk in. As for music, I stick to the beaty Jewish ones but I don’t see a problem with some of the non Jewish ones – as long as the language, content, etc is ok.
Don’t close it but spell exercise correctly
100% agree
In my opinion you should definitely not push off dating. Even people with “long term” plans change their minds down the road. It is something you should work out with the girl you want to marry. I don’t think it’s irresponsible because worse comes to worst you can fall back on something since you already took the LSATs. Hatzlacha in dating.
Mazel tov Dr. Pepper!!!
Mod 80:
The question boils down to what exten you will put up gedarim. Most people I know have no problem walking past a McDonalds even though you can smell their food. The opposite is here where lots of people think mixed seating is wrong.
This is gonna get heated…
Noooo!! Not the age gap again!!!
Time to bring this thread back up.
Apparently, stretches don’t help me as I still have lower leg pain after I run. I usually still run even with the pain but I have a feeling I might end up paying for that in the long run. Any suggestions?
Just ask mosherose.
Helpful:
As mentioned many times on this thread, the same risks you speak about when picking up somebody along are present when using the shidduch system.
mw13:
Uh, how young do you think you can start college already? Usually graduating high school is a requirement.
You keep on repeating yourself as do I regarding meeting at a wedding – again SJSinNYC answers that. I hate to inform you that not everyone on the “shidduch market” has the maturity you speak about.
Helpful:
Explain how it gives more of an opportunity to sin. If anything, it’s the opposite. Upon the first meeting by a mixed event the couple is being watched by about 400 people.
mw13:
I have read all comments and responded. In college you tend to have girls starting from 18-19 and boys 20-21. Most have already gone to Israel and are ready to settle down and start a family. Where did you get it from that plenty are just looking for “fun”?
You also tell SJSinNYC that during the 3 hours by the wedding the boy and girl will form a bond so it’s likely to lead to sin. If that is the case, how are we allowing 2nd dates when going through a shidduch system? The first date tends to run for about the same amount of time if not longer.
In response to your last post, do you honestly think that when someone wants to get to know the opposite gender better it’s to sin?? No, it’s not tayvah. It’s called: “I got a good impression of this person. I want to get to know them better to see if we can maybe get married one day and raise a family together.”
shtusim:
Read SJSinNYC’s post.
Mw13:
As a general rule most college age students are looking to get married as they fall between the 18 to 23 range (for undergrad). Again, I am talking about your run of the milll frum guy/girl.
Helpful:
I specifically said that all research should not be eliminated. If one meets someone in a college setting the responsible thing would be to perform some sort of research to ensure there are no major issues that can be detrimental to the marriage in the future.
Moq:
I did hear of those things but I don’t think that happens among the clientele we are discussing.
Apushatayid:
I heard that story too.
While research shouldn’t be completely eliminated, meeting on ones own allows a person to overlook things they wouldn’t have before. Now before you jump on me and say we specifically don’t want them to overlook what they want because it will result in divorce, step back for a second. I am referring to a girl who will only want a guy who is at least 5″10. While she would never listen to any suggestion of a 5″8 boy, she meets one in college…likes him…and she learns that maybe his height isn’t such an important factor. In the case of shidduch dating this wouldn’t happen since she wouldn’t even end up meeting him. Same with a guy who decides he can only marry a size 2 girl and many other cases.
I think meeting on ones own dismisses the questions of “stack or scrape,” “plastic tablecloth or not,” and the like.
mw13:
Like SJSinNYC said: improper things can happen with shidduch dating also. It seems like you have no argument for the actual meeting in public. Once two people determine they would like to continue seeing each other they go on dates no different than shidduchim – alone, and without adult supervision.
sof davar hakol nishma:
Valid point.
Health:
1. I’m a girl and didn’t have the opportunity to ask guys because I wasn’t in class with them. I do know, however, several guys that want it too.
2. I never said the school (i.e. administration) wants it. You are right that they probably couldn’t care less. It’s a lot of the student body that would appreciate it.
3. Most girls from Flatbush don’t need the commute to the city when they have a campus right here. As I said before, most frum people aren’t specifically going to a college because it’s mixed; they are going for various other reasons.
“Yes, I firmly believe mixing college-aged members of different genders will almost certainly lead to negiah, yichud, and worse. I haven’t seen any logical rebuttal of this argument, only an unintelligent brush-off.”
The only option I can give you is to walk through a co-ed college which frum people attend. Among the run of the mill frum people I haven’t seen problems. It’s pretty hard to show something that doesn’t exist; however, I am offering you a solution to see that it is not the way you think.
mw13:
You seem to equate going to a mixed college with negiah issues. If that is the case, it’s not worth arguing with you.
There is another thread about this – I think it was BP Totty who pointed out that the world views the younger generation as terrible while that is not the case.
EDITED
Frum people who go to CUNY don’t specifically go there to meet someone. I don’t agree that it would drive out many of the current student body but we can just agree to disagree if you want.
oomis1105:
I agree 100%. In addition to the fact that references are pretty much pointless – I mean, the names are being put on the resume because it is assumed that good information will be given.
gavra_at_work:
To provide singles with another means of making shidduchim. Yes, I doubt it will ever happen – I’m just putting it out there.
Health:
I don’t know who you’re in contact with but I have spoken to many Touro students who would love for it to become mixed. The frummer ones tend to lean towards Sara Schenirer and Raizel Reit. I am not trying to push my hashkafos on anyone – I was involved in the Touro community and the general consensus was that it would be easier mixed.
Health:
I don’t think it’s the students that mind a mixed setting. You are right that there are plenty of other colleges. I just think that Touro (at least the Ave J campus) has mainly frum students of marriageable age so it would be a good place to allow shidduchim to happen.
I know, Health. They are extremely successful. People wouldn’t go to a mixed college because of the stigma involved. Get rid of the stigma, make Touro mixed, and bingo! You make more shidduchim.
Thank you Max well. I am going to review the sources when I get a chance.
I wasn’t bringing up the dancing issue. It just seems to me that you’re trying to assur everything so why not go full force and not allow men to see women at all?
At the rate you’re going why don’t you start implementing mechitza’s by the chupah? Or not allowing a chosson’s friends to dance in front of him by the bedekin? It’s possible that immature ones will look at girls then too.
sof davar hakol nishma:
No one is trying to fool anyone. We are pointing out a practical means to help alleviate the so called shidduch crisis and reduce stress levels of singles in shidduchim.
You keep on bringing up how the immature ones are not ready for mixed events. I assure you that the people who want to just hang out have plenty of means of doing so without utilizing a mixed seating situation. As I keep on saying, the mature ones are ready for a mixed event where they can meet someone they can eventually marry.
I think Touro should become mixed too – imagine how many singles can meet then 🙂 I know of several Brooklyn College shidduchim that are great marriages.
I agree that there is a concept of yeridas hadoros but it’s totally blown out of proportion. Not everyone is that bad! Many singles would utilize such mixed events solely for finding their bashert…not just to “hang out.”
Moq:
You pointed out the singles event done by Invey HaGefen. It is an excellent endeavor but why wait until the singles are “old”? The need of a singles event can be prevented if they would be allowed to meet by a weddings (yes, weddings are a pretty controlled environment).
No, I think a bar is a highly inappropriate place to go to. A bar is a place meant for things that don’t conform to Jewish values. A wedding, however, is a place to meet in an appropriate setting. As SJSinNYC said, it is highly unlikely that any aveiros will happen in the presence of 400+ people. Most girls and boys who are ready for marriage will know how to act when in a mixed setting.
so right:
True. But if something isn’t forbidden in the Torah (or through Rabbanim) one can do it. For example, I can eat a cream cheese sandwich because I want to.
holtzichfest:
Maybe hang out in the coffee room a little longer and you’ll see that there’s a problem of too few shadchanim. What’s wrong if singles meet at a simcha (if done appropriately)?
Stop preventing singles from getting to know each other and then complaining that there’s a shidduch crisis. Mixed seating at a wedding is a way to help the situation.
Until what age can a father and daughter sleep in the same bed? I never heard of this issue before.
12th grade is the year that everyone seems to become friends. I hope it’ll happen by you too.
Now it’s not tznius for a guy not to have a shirt on. Just wait for a few more threads and his elbows and collarbone will also have to be covered.
I can’t even begin to imagine why anyone would think it’s a problem.
I think it’s one suitcase now.
Thanks. I appreciate it.
Mods:
Can you allow the link that A Woman outside bklyn is talking about? I think it would benefit several people here.
P3 maven:
Tannersville has LOTS of bochurim up during bein hazmanim.