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BS”D
“How does an individual know if he is doing Hashem’s will and following the right derech?”
The ONLY answer to this question is to have a Rov.
Because your Rov has his rebbe who he learned from, and got his Derech, learned his halachos, and got his Torah-True hashkafos.
Just because the Rov is more “Chilled” then another who is ????? ??? (Fire and Brimstone), doesn’t make that Rov less worthy of being followed. And if he says something is Mutar, then there is no reason not to follow it. Saying “I know better then my Rov, I will be Machmir” says “I don’t believe in the Mesorah, I want to be “Ish HaYashar B’Yeinav Ya’asee””.
It takes a real Rov to be Matier.
P.S. The Chassidish (really Hungarian/Satmer) Mehalech (in general, Clearheaded!) is more Machmir regarding Tznius. This is NOT halacha Pesuka, but none the less should be applauded (within reason).
Also looking for response to post to Clearheaded above.
Peer Pressure.
And who says schools in America teach secular studies? Lakewood stops for many after sixth grade (So I have heard), and for everyone in high school, just like EY.
philosopher/clearheaded:
The sense of Busha is gone in Klal Yisroel (in America), it has gone the way of the Lexus (and food stamps, but in a different way, and same for EY (HAV HAV!)). If the men can attract, the women feel they can (and should) as well. The men do it with their cars, suits and cellphones, while the women do it with their skirts, pocketbooks and blouses.
All we have left to rely on is our Father in Heaven.
(I don’t know what “Flouncy” means, neither do I want to know, Ittisa)
Sister Bear: Pointed it out before as well. See my point above.
Clearheaded:
But where do you put the Chassidim that have TV’s?
Rav Moshe used the term “Yeraim”. I try to use it as well.
There are those who fear Hashem, and those who don’t.
“There is room in Halacha to allow such people to convert, although the poskim who do hold in this manner are in the minority to say the least.”
So we will be willing to allow very doubtful Gerim into Klal Yisroel? Why is that a good thing?
If they want to be “part of Am Yisrael” but not Orthodox/Shomer Mitzvos, let Israeli citizenship become the new Geiur. Create a new court that converts based on military service, not halacha.
Why mix a very B’Deeved Halacha into the mix and create “Jews” that most of Yareim Klal Yisroel will not recognize?
Since it is Erev Shabbos I will abandon the Socratic Method and give the answer.
Separation of Church and State, and the lack of it in Israel.
So why not admit failure and create civil marriage, divorce, etc. and let each branch do as they please (and have two rings, if you are worried about Keddushi Biyah).
Lack of Separation of Church and State caused Emmanuel and the Chillul Hashem there, as well as the current Chillul Hashem due to the proposed law.
Isn’t it enough?
(I think my original post got lost in the thread)
philosopher/clearheaded:
I’m not going to put this the right way, but….
It was a very different time then (Kosher King!), not only in the practice of Tznius, but in the lessened hypersensitivity of men towards women.
It was possible for guys to talk to girls L’Toeles and not sin without strict rules of the shidduch date. That is not possible with the separated-gender society we have today. The Agudah was known to have a mixed picnic for men to meet ladies in the 50’s, because it was L’Toeles.
Not to say that one should stam “shmooze” with a girl (for a boy). But “L’Toeles” was much less formalized. And one should know themselves.
Now as well, once a boy and girl who are unmarried get older and have been in the workforce for some time, the opposite gender loses the “hypersensitivity” of needing to sin when a boy sees a girl. At that point one can loosen the “rules” of shidduch dating (take that as you will).
Wolf got my second point with the Gezel.
And I highly recommend mixed swimming (with wife). It was a regular night activity during the early part of our (Ittisa & I) marriage.
Wolf, People who engage in Gezel, when challenged, excuse it since they are “Yeshivish.” So they themselves use Yeshivish to justify being less commited to Torah and mitzvos.
(Had to fix typo)
Not to disagree with the point, but Philosopher/Clearheaded has it right here. MO, just like anything else, runs the gamut.
philosopher:
I’m not going to put this the right way, but….
It was a very different time then (Kosher King!), not only in the practice of Tznius, but in the lessened hypersensitivity of men towards women.
It was possible for guys to talk to girls L’Toeles and not sin without strict rules of the shidduch date. That is not possible with the separated-gender society we have today. The Agudah was known to have a mixed picnic for men to meet ladies in the 50’s, because it was L’Toeles.
Not to say that one should stam “shmooze” with a girl (for a boy). But “L’Toeles” was much less formalized. And one should know themselves.
Now as well, once a boy and girl who are unmarried get older and have been in the workforce for some time, the opposite gender loses the “hypersensitivity” of needing to sin when a boy sees a girl. At that point one can loosen the “rules” of shidduch dating (take that as you will).
fabie:
Only to the point of defining a Ta’ar, or Shaving.
But you are correct it is relevent.
Logic Flaw:
A Ta’ar is a Ta’ar, no matter how unclose.
A Non-Taar is a Non-Ta’ar, no matter how close.
See Hair Removal Powder.
There is nothing to argue. (unless I need to post the Star-K’s ruling AGAIN?)
“We will have a major assimilation problem on our hands here in Israel if something is not done fast.”
Why? Isn’t Israel the home of the “Traditional” Jew? And if they actually are serious about joining Klal Yisroel, they will make sure to do it right.
“Lastly we cannot keep having the government fall every year or two, we need stability.”
Change your form of government and get a constitution! Otherwise having elections often makes the parties accountable.
The very fact we still exist gives me Chizuk.
With so many wanting (and having wanted) to destroy us, it is only due to Chessed for Hashem that we are here.
yosr:
What happens if they do?
Will the sky fall?
Or perhaps we will all melt?
Seriously, why is this bill important, besides for Rav Amar saying so?
And why is quitting the government a bad thing?
Rav Gifter says Bein Hazmanim is to learn Torah. (Famous Bein HaZmanim Tape)
Keep your usual sedorim, just learn something interesting & different!
How about Yerushalmi, or Nach? Or a Mesechta you would not usually learn in yeshiva?
Rav Henoch held ties and jackets are Kavod for Davening.
Lav Davka fedoras.
Pashuteh Yid:
Interesting point. I have heard a rov (a well known Posek) who holds the Peya goes above the ear to the top point of the ear. Many people are not aware of this shita.
Take a look at
http://www.koshershaver.org/why.htm
They have a diagram, as well as detailed halachic background.
“The problem is that Rav Kanievsky’s position is contrary to what the common practice seems to be.”
Not in Benei Brak!
P.S. Maran Harav Yosef does not wear a black hat.
“My Rosh Yeshivah used to make any members of the yeshivah who didn’t have their hat and jacket for whatever reason- daven in the ezras nashim.”
A TELZER?
I agree with that rule. If the Yeshiva has a rule to wear a hat & jacket, one who does not wear it breaks the rule and has to face the consequences.
Helpful lives in EY (see hat and jacket thread).
Then having one girl on the street is already too much.
Remember: two separate societies.
SJSinNYC:
Regarding what?
In general, a Chatzer is a common area in front of a number of individual homes, which opens to a “Mavuyi”, which goes into the street. Most “Tashmishin” are done in this Chatzer (Rashbam).
This Chatzer may or may not have the right to be private if it is owned by an individual, see Hezek Reiyah (begining of Bava Basra).
Helpful:
Why do they deny there is a problem with congragating in the street? Have you attempted to teach them?
Did they say “I know it is assur, but I am doing it anyway because I want to make men have Taiva”? What happened?
Did you try?
sof davar:
Second SJS.
sof davar:
I don’t see it with the teens as much, but then again, I did not specificly look (as that would be Assur). I am not a card carrying member of the Tznius Patrol, which allows one to be Mistakel (since it is L’Toeles, of course).
SJS: Ever wonder how much ISRAELIS pay for sem?
Want to bet it is less than the Americans?
Take BJJ for example, where there are programs for both.
I would make that bet.
(And agree with the premise).
Wolf:
This is actually an interesting machlokes between “Litvaks” and “Chassidim” regarding putting on Rabbainu Tam Tefillin.
Chassidim hold one should put on Rabbainu Tam to be Yotze his shita. The Shulcha Aruch agrees that a “chassid” should wear both pairs.
The Mishna Berura says it is Gaiva for someone who is not a Chassid to put on Rabbainu Tam Tefilin. (34:3)
However, no one seems to be Machmir for the Shita that Tefilin can not have sirtut, as is the Shita of Rav Simcha and the Mahari Abuhav in the Tur/Bach.
Oh well.
Akiva: See my explanation for his shita above. It is not R’ Chaim, it is the Mishna Berura.
Eliyahu will explain how it happened.
Our eyes will be opened and we will understand.
Until then all is cloudy.
(not my vort)
philosopher:
What strata are you trying to connect to?
It seems to me (from where I notice) that the problem is not with teens, or older women, but with married women in their 20’s and 30’s. Any ideas why?
Helpful:
But since that is what you sound like, do you think anyone will pay attention?
R’ Shafran recently wrote about blogging vs. doing. If you want to do, then do. If you want to coffee room, go ahead. But don’t think that is doing.
I think (and hope) that you should do. Go be the next Zahava Braunstien, or Sara Shneirer, or Gila Manolson.
Helpful:
When are you going to give that shiur?
Or do you just like telling anonymous people that what they do is assur, which will create no changes (I estimate you as an 18 year old girl straight out of sem, perhaps Missme? Just judging by how you write and what you are saying).
If you really are older and you really want to do something about this real problem, go ahead. Shmoozing about it here is just not going to cut it.
Good luck.
Helpful: Why don’t you give a shiur?
I will try to attend (if it is in my area).
Rav Chaim is just quoting the Mishna Brura, nothing new.
If you walk outside with a hat and jacket normally, you MUST wear it during davening.
Not here. I don’t know enough about it.
Look it up or ask your LOR.
SJS: Pisuk Raglayim is more of a Pritzus vs. Tznius problem, and could be true even without any men around.
clearheaded: Have you tried the gloves?
AP Yid Beat me to the punch.
Electric Shavers
Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, Star-K Rabbinic Administrator
Since the Star-K often receives questions regarding the use of electric shavers, this article will address the Halachic concerns of removing one’s facial hair. The Torah states, Do not round the corners of one’s head and do not destroy the corner of one’s beard. The Torah continues and the corner of one’s beard they shall not shave.
What are the actions of forbidden facial hair removal? The Mishna in Machos discusses which methods of removing facial hair are forbidden. hakafa, “rounding” refers to the complete removal of hair from the temple area. Where as the terms geluach, “shaving” and , hishchisa”destroying” refer to forbidden forms of removing one’s beard.
The Mishna does not offer a practical explanation of these actions. Do these terms refer to the cutting of hair using different types of shaving implements, or do these actions refer to different degrees of hair removal using the same shaving implement? There is much discussion about these concepts amongst Halachic authorities, yet, the consensus of opinion is that these forbidden violations of hakafa,geluach and hishchisa” are achieved by using shaving implements that have different cutting abilities to cut one’s facial hair.
The shaving implements that are discussed in Shulchan Orech are:
1.scissors, a dual edged cutting instrument whose blades work in unison to remove hair growth. Scissors generally do not have the ability to cut the hair close to the skin.
2.taar the razor sharp straight-edged blade that is an extremely efficient means of hair removal.
3. a scissor or scissor-like instrument that delivers a closer cut, which is similar to but not as effective as a peyos.
As was mentioned earlier, there are varied opinions amongst the Poskim which shaving instruments are permitted to be used to cut a particular area of hair growth. Putting the merits of having or keeping long peyos aside, regarding the shaving of the temple area, Halachic authorities are generally in agreement that scissors, because they do not give a close cut, would be permissible to be used for the peyos area and would not qualify for a violation of hakofos harosh. Cutting one’s peyos with a razor is forbidden. Therefore, taking a razor-cut haircut in thepeyos area would constitute a violation of hakafa. misparayim kein tahar, for example, a pair of clippers, is questionable. The Shulchan Aruch says we should take a stringent rather than lenient position with scissor-like instruments. Therefore, scissors would be the only permissible shaving instrument to trim the temple area.
The issue of shaving the beard area is more involved since we have two actions working in concert, giluach and hashchasa. What is meant by the termhashchasa, destroying the hair? According to the Chochmas Odam, hashchasa is defined as the process of removing the entire facial hair below the skin. Obviously, plucking out a hair removes the hair below the skin. Can “below the skin” hair removal be achieved with a straight-edge razor blade? The hair shaft grows under the skin as well as above the skin. When one shaves with a razor, the skin is pulled taut actually exposing the hair growing below the skin. The razor runs against the hair grain in the opposite direction of the pulled skin lopping off the exposed hair. When the taut skin relaxes, the hair is actually cut below the skin. That is the definition of hashchasa. Giluach is simply any normal method of shaving.
Alternative effective methods of beard removal e.g. electrolysis, depilatory, or tweezers would definitely qualify for haschasa but would not qualify for a means of shaving, geluach, therefore they would be Halachically permissible. On the other hand, scissors qualify as a normal means of shaving. Since, when using this method you can only cut a beard to a stubble, the other criteria of hashchasa would not be fulfilled. Scissors, therefore, would be a Halachically permissible method to “shave” one’s beard, providing that the blade nearer to the skin, is not sharp enough to cut by itself.
Based on the above, the razor blade, is the classic example of a shaving instrument that the Torah forbids. The Gemora definitively states this position clearly; the Gemora says that shaving is forbidden with a davar shehu mashchis zehu tahar. The razor according to all Halachic authorities fulfills both prohibitions of geluach and haschasa and is forbidden to be used.
Seemingly, any shaving implement that effectively cuts hair below the skin would also be categorized as a tahar, regardless if the shaving implement is single or double edged. As long as the hair is cut below the skin you would violate both actions of hashchasa and geluach. Any shaving instrument giving a less effective cut, where the hair is not cut below the skin but even with the skin, would be categorized as a mispareinm kein tahar, cut.
In summary the three levels of geluach are:
1.misparayim – that cuts above the skin, a shaving process that does not qualify for geluach of the beard.
2.misparayim kein tahar – that cut at skin level, which would also not qualify for hashchasa.
3.tahar that cuts below the skin creating geluach and hashchasa, the Torah’s forbidden combination of hair removal.
How would the electric shaver fare in the Kosher shaving arena? The electric shaver is a relatively recent introduction to the shaving scene. Prior to the shaver, the only practical method of Kosher beard removal was the use of shaving powder. The powder was mixed with water and made a very offensive smelling paste that was spread on one’s face and ate away the person’s facial hair. One had to be careful to remove the paste in haste so that only facial hair and not facial skin would be removed.
The electric shaver seemed to be a welcome technical Halachic introduction, although shaving in general has not been without controversy. However, those Halachic authorities that permitted shaving with electric shavers did so because it seemed to fulfill all Halachic requirements. The shaver was made up of a vibrating head and screen, the beard hair passed between the cutting edges of the screen and the vibrating head, and was cut off in a scissor-like cutting fashion between head and screen. The shave was closer than manual scissors since the shaver cut the beard close to the skin yet it never effectively gave a smooth shave because they were not as powerful as they are today.
As shavers got more sophisticated they became more Halachically challenging. With some models the stronger motors made the head vibrate faster and cut the beard closer. The lift and cut shaving systems that evolved from the older Norelco Triplehead system claimed that they could shave as close as a razor. As the skin was held taut the shaver alleged to cut thebeard below the skin like a tahar. Although shaving professionals will admit that the closeness of one’s shave depends upon a person’s beard conditions and texture, realistically, the system works better in theory than in practice.
Hagaon R’ Moshe Feinstein Z”L was of the opinion that the gemaras statement eizahu geluach sheyaish bo hashchasa hevei omer ze tahar is teaching us that only the tahar , the straight-edged razor, is the Torah’s forbidden form of hashchasa and geluach. Any other method of hashchasa and geluach would be permitted. Based on this fundamental understanding of the gemara, electric shavers would be permitted even if the shaver removed facial hair beneath the skin, since the shaver works in a scissor-like and not razor-like action.
However, due to the increased sharpness of the blades of the rotating heads it is conceivable that the blades could cut the beard hairs off before the combined cutting of blade and screen. Therefore, even according to the Poskim that permit electric shavers this shaver would be problematic, because it would be cutting like a tahar which is forbidden. Can one practically determine whether the shaver in question is a Kosher model?
Hagaon R’ Moshe Feinstein z”l, who permitted the use of electric shavers used a criteria similar to the shochet who would demonstrate how sharp his chalaf (shechita knife) was. To show the sharp edge of his knife, a shochet would take a hair from his beard; holding the hair in one hand the shochet would see whether the chalaf cut the dangling hair. If the hair was severed, the shochet’s steel passed the test.
So too, in a similar manner, R’ Moshe would often test the sharpness of an electric shaver’s blades. He would take a beard hair and test the blades! The shaver would be acceptable if the hair was held taut and was not split in half.
The only practical suggestion that can be given to one whose shaver failed this test is to dull the blades. This can be done by taking a key or some other hard, flat instrument and running it along the sharp edge of the blade. Obviously, this shaver will not work as well, but, nevertheless, it is still effective and will transform a previously questionable shaver into one that is acceptable by the Poskim who permit the use of shavers.
Shaila: Must one wash his hands after shaving?
Teshuva: It is assur to shave.
Does he say why?
Wolf: For children, there is also the danger from strangers and chatrooms. There is a physical danger as well as the spiritual one.
Wolf: Somewhere else (more than once) I posted if it would be a gezairah to go to bungalows, the gedolim would have Asifas and Tehillim gatherings trying to break the terrible decree to seperate spouses during the summer, except for weekends.
But some people do so willingly.
SC: any specific M’arre Mekomos?
Mrs. Clearheaded & Mr. Shmart:
I agree with both of you. The Tznius aspect is only if it is external, and it is not Tzanua to have an overly showy home (I think I already said so in another thread).
It is still “excessive spending”, if that is a problem (and I have no idea whay it would be a problem).
Baruch T’Heye, Reb. Mod.
But being that the question is excessive spending, who cares if it is visible or not?
Mr Shmart:
“Why not” is not a great answer. We don’t need the Mitzrayim connectors since we have the Torah Hakedoysha (not my vort).
Come on, there is a better answer.
“(The wealth displayed inside the house is not an issue.)”
Why not?
frum….
What is Frum?
Please define.
Mr. Max Well Shmart:
“We are required to wear the Jewish uniform of our time.”
Why?
? ???????????, ???-??????? ?????? ??????, ????? ???-??????? ?????????? ?????????, ??????? ??????????; ????????, ?????? ???????, ????? ???-??????? ????????? ????????, ??????????. ? ??????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?????-??????????, ?????????, ??????????? ????????? ?????????? ??????????, ???????? ??? ??????? ????????? ?????? ??????????? ?????; ?????????? ???????????, ?????????. ? ?????-??????? ????????, ??????? ??????????, ?????????? ?????????, ??? ??????? ????????? ?????? ??????????? ?????; ???????????? ?????? ??????????, ???????? ?????????
apushatayid, you assume that the shidduch is more valuble than the correct usage of Eretz Yisroel by a shevet.
Each shevet had its mission within the Klal, and Menashe thought it would be to the detriment of their mission to lose the nachala. And Hashem agreed.
Besides, its not “their” property (as it belonged to Bnos Tzlafchad).
BS”D
Wolf:
Remember that the only concern is if there are large pieces of land transfered.
Since land can not be consolidated by one individual (due to yovel returning all purchased land), each time there is a new generation, the land holdings get diluted. If a diluted portion of land gets transfered to another shevet, it is not such a big deal, since it is small.
The problem begins when the land does get consolidated through yerusha to persons other then sons. This happened during Pilegesh B’Giva, when most of Binyamin was wiped out. The land of Binyamin was the yerasha of the remaining 600 members of the shevet (via them being cousins, through the grandfathers). Each member now had a very large piece of land.
Therefore, at that time, they made a Takana to minimize the transfer of land out of the shevet. For example, they were careful not to marry outside the shevet if they got the yerusha (Rashbam BB 116B), and they were also M’Taken other methods to keep the yerusha within the male line (see Gemorah & Rashbam there).
Please feel free to ask any additional questions, or if you don’t understand, please be more specific, and I will (Bezras Hashem) try to help.
G@W
Lo HaBayshan Lomed!
Lets say a man had a daughter and no sons (when the din was in effect). We would not allow his daughter to marry out of the shevet.
If the man had sons, the daughter can marry who she wants (the mitzva only affects a “Bas Yoreshes”, which she at the weeding is not). Then if the son subsequently dies, she gets the yerusha (when her father dies), but has done no Issur (there was no “Bas Yoreshes” who AT THE TIME OF THE CHASUNA married outside the shevet). Therefore the Nachala will transfer if she dies, and the husband is Yoresh.
The system is not meant to be foolproof, only to remove most cases of land transfer.
Wolf: One can have “personal integrity” and still ask for a handout.
It’s called lobbying 🙂