ICOT

Quite entertaining…keep on talking

My school had the same rule, at least in my days. We got to give to 2 girls only, chosen by gorel.

I think it’s a great idea, considering that it’s the parents who have to foot the bill when their daughter decides she’s close personal friends with half her class.

“as far as she is concerned right now she never wants to have anything to do with judaism again, but that term ambivalent is telling–it means that she has feelings either way. therefore i conclude that rather than trying to vilify her, we should be trying to show her the beauty that judaism has to offer–the beauty she never saw as a child.”

“i cant even blame her for writing the book; why should she not write a book being negative about judaism if she never experienced anything positive in judaism?”

“she never once mentioned experiencing a shabbos…not ONCE! shabbos is one of the most beautiful parts of judaism and she only ever mentioned it to refer to the day of the week. she grew up in a system–satmar in williamsburg. systems fail. in her case it failed wherever and whenever possible. what do you expect from someone like that? positive feedback? how?!”

“we all know that there IS beauty in judaism; we’ve all experienced it. so why should we keep it all to ourselves? why not share it with this person who unfortunately had difficult life?”

You seem to believe that there are two kinds of people in the world. Those with easy lives (who consequently have an easy time appreciating the beauty of Yiddishkeit), and those with difficult lives (who are excused should they find Yiddishkeit to be an unwanted burden.)

Guess what? There are plenty of us who had/have difficult lives. She is not the first one to have grown up in such a home. She made a choice to abandon Yiddishkeit, rather than figure it out, and she made a choice again when she decided to lie about her community to the public.

I agree with longarekel.

“no one’s defending her, we’re just not interested in people being called liars without any kind of substantiation to the claim. there’s a difference.”

Here’s the thing: I’m sick and tired of talking about this book. But I do believe that it’s more probable that you really don’t know much about the Chassidic community and therefore can’t find any lies in the book, than that you’re just trying to get under my skin.

I will, bli neder, go through the book again later today and gather some excerpts of her lies.

For now, though, I posted this from an amazon review on her book:

“He breaks the silence finally, shifting first in his seat and readjusting his coat. “So my sister tells me you’re a teacher?” I nod my head yes. “Very nice, very nice.” “What about you?” I ask, having been given the smallest of go-aheads. “You’re still in yeshiva? What’s it like at twenty-two? Are there people there who are you rage?” I know that will hit a sore point”. p.129/. l. 2366. Please view this video on YouTube. “The View, Rejection of Hasidic Jews in Brooklyn.Deborah Feldman Book”. 3:15. “you met you future husband just once before your wedding day…. is that correct? Yes.. Can you take us back to that day? i can only tell you that I was absolutely terrified … and I don’t remember… I couldn’t remember a word!” How wonderful that is from her to make that effort, special for us, and write a few pages from a conversation she didn’t remember a word! 🙂

“a mamin: having a specific agenda doesnt make you a liar. i read her book, did you? i didnt see any lies in it.”

I read the book and I am chassidish so I know what I’m talking about when I say she is lying.

Welcome!

I just read the The Great Bear’s post and I just have to mention the following:

It’s true that Satmar has many chumros and they may appear extreme at times. And I am the first to admit that I could never live up to their standards-it would just be too much. BUT-Make no mistake about it: In the Satmar community, every Yid-regardless of his Yarmulke size-will always find a caring friend and a generous hand. The men and women in that community have the biggest, most selfless hearts.

“Msseeker: Yes, many. A friend of mine has (not) gone on 4 dates already because the girl refused to wear a seat belt so he refused to take them anywhere. I have gotten people to speak to the administration of more than one seminary in E”Y because there were teachers there telling the girls it’s Assur to wear seat belts because it’s not Tznius. When one of the teachers heard of my complaints he responded that Giluy Arayos is Yeihareg V’al Ya’avor.”

These girls are not Chassidishe and certainly not Satmar. Generally, chassidishe girls don’t date. So the seat-belt accusation is most likely bogus, and most certainly not exlusively a satmar issue.

GAW

000646

“I am just saying that this women is not lying and that the fact that she found this lifestyle not good does not mean it is not a GREAT lifestyle for some.”

Having said that, I’d like to reply to each of your points.

“I went to a really Yeshivish (although not Chasidishe)High-School. I was told it dosn’t “Pas” for a Ben Torah to eat out in a restaurant and that we should not do so. I do not find it hard to believe that a strict Satmar Family would not let it’s women eat out.”

It’s quite a stretch going from “it doesn’t pas for a ben-Torah” to “women are not allowed”. One is clearly a stringent practice and the other sounds kind of oppressive. She should have made this distinction when mentioning it. And yes, strict Satmar families do not eat out because it doesn’t pas. But it’s NOT a general chassidishe rule. And the book’s subtitle is “The Scandalous Rejection of My HASIDIC Roots.”

“Again in my experience in the Yeshivishe community the more Yeshivishe people are less makpid on driving laws, underage drinking etc. then more modern or not frum people. So I do not find it hard to believe her here either.”

I cannot think of a way to back up my claim that you are making an unfair and untrue accusation. It’s just your experience vs. mine. Where I come from, safety is given priority.

“I remember being told by my High- school teachers that “Just because a Goy is wearing a uniform does not make him any less of a lowlife then a bum on a street corner and given the chance they would do what the Nazis did”

I was also taught quite a bit of nonsense in school. But I understand that this doesn’t reflect the philosophy or practices of chassidim. You’ll find idoiots talking like idiots anywhere.

“My understanding from speaking to some friends who are familiar with Satmar is that Beis Ruchel Dsatmar forbids it’s high-school girls from being on the street after certain hours(with some exceptions when attending a friends wedding etc.).”

I KNOW people in Williamsburg. I have relatives there. They come and go from their homes whenever they want to.

“Allot of the Chasidieshe men I meet speak english on about a 4th grade level so this is not a leap.”

You’re right about the men. She said girls, though.

My point is she exaggerated and lied and she KNOWS it.

mommamia22

I agree. I’m not impressed by children who don’t know clean characters like Mickey Mouse. It has nothing to do with Yiddishkeit or spirituality. I can respect that, but I think it’s asking a lot from a non-jew to not see this as pointless insulation at best.

Like I said in an earlier post, considering who the viewers of the show are, the Ginsburg’s were probably not the best candidate for the job.

00646

“From what I saw of her interviews and writings nothing she said is untrue. Your average American (or any westerner) would agree with most of what she says (even “conservative” Americans).”

Either you’ve been reading different interviews than I did, or you have ridiculous misconceptions about the chassidishe community.

“I think that the reason why people are so defensive is because they themselves are too insecure to just admit that what she says is true…”

Wow. You saw right through me.

“As a general rule it doesn’t offend people who are secure in their beliefs when someone disagrees with them.”

We’re not discussing a difference in beliefs. She lied about the facts.

oomis1105

So true for many of us.

I know I’m going to sound very critical in a minute, so let me begin by saying that the Ginsburg family did a very good job during the visit.

However, I feel that because of the tremendous responsiblity in hosting someone like Oprah, especially since the visit is on TV, it would be nice if they had her come to a more articulate, open-minded family so she could get a more realistic and all-inclusive picture of the chassidishe lifestyle.

As a chassidishe woman, I feel that the Ginsburg family didn’t present a clear or mainstream picture of the attitudes toward modesty,relationships between husband and wife, the role of frum women and the halachos of niddah in the chasiddishe community.

As I was watching the clips online, I was annoyed at the incomplete and rather sketchy answers that they gave to some of Oprah’s questions.

They obviously did their best, but they weren’t the best candidate for the job.

Mrs. Zlata Press had some interesting thoughts on the issue. Didn’t have a chance to read the others yet.

Within almost every chassidus you will find those who are makpid to marry davka within their chassidus, and those who have different priorities in shidduchim. I know such people in Belz, Skvere, Satmar, Viznitz, Bobov, and Pupa.

Many times these families are extremely involved in the chassidus (davening strictly in the Rebbe’s shul, attending every tish and rebbishe simcha…). It’s hard to imagine an “outsider” integrating into such a family when life is centered around the Rebbe, the shul, the mosod, etc. It only makes sense that they stick to their own crowd.

Try Mekimi:

http://mekimi.org/celebration.htm

“is it attention seeking, for a single girl to be wearing make-up all the time”

No, it’s not. For her, it’s part of getting dressed in the morning.

“she doesn’t have to look beautiful for her husband..So what’s the point at that particular stage??”

Taka a guess.

“So My Main question is why would a FRUM single girl want to wear makeup???”

Why not?

“females should dress with an awareness that they are going into the PUBLIC arena before they go out. no, not don’t look. don’t wear!”

Git gezugt.

gaslight

what’s wrong with Gestetner’s pics?

Too many details that I don’t know, and which the parents might not even know. So this is me not commenting.

Hey, anonymous, if you happen to find a speech from him on this topic, please let me know.

moredDow

I am sorry that there’s no way out of this for you, but that’s how life works. You take responsiblity for your actions and you deal with the consequences. I consider myself as someone who is not judgemental and I still would have a problem dating a guy like you.

I can appreciate the fact that you’ve changed, but I’m sure you can understand why a girl would have a big problem when she hears drugs and girls.