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Thanks for the info, ronrsr. I should have known. But then again, one of the most famous winter holiday songs of the non-Jews was written by Irving Berlin.
There is a great deal of secular music that is truly beautiful. The fact that it is secular does not make it HORRIBLE. The type of music that I would find horrible is gangsta rap, heavy metal, anything with offensive and obscene lyrics or that depict violence and use curse words. That would bother me and I woudl walk right out, and probably say something to the proprietor. But “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” or the music from “Titanic” are also secular songs, and they are absolutely beautiful.
Mazca, I adore my son-in-law. He is one of the biggest brachas in our family. I only pray that my two other daughters should be similarly blessed with such wonderful, loving husbands. My son-in-law is a wonderful father to my ainekel, and is an all-around wonderful young man. I could not love him more had I given birth to him, and he knows it!
Re: the skit – it reminded me of the joke about the mother talking about her daughter and her d-i-l. Both girls did exactly the same thing, but when her d-i-l did it, she was a lazy money-grubbing, machsheifa who was working her poor son to the bone to provide luxuries for her, whereas her daughter was so lucky to have a husband who worked so hard to provide luxuries for her and wouldn’t let her lift a finger! It’s all in whose “ox is being gored,” I guess!
How are all these cholim doing? Does anyone have an update?
“The boy undergoes a change in his public mitvzah obervance (Tefillin, minyan, etc) and this warrants a public celebration. The girl’s change is in private observance, and this does not warrant a party.”
That was extremely interesting and educational. I would propose that a girl also undergoes a public change (though clearly not as obvious as a boy), because she fasts publicly when required by halacha, and though her observance is otherwise mostly indeed private, she is equally responsible to fulfill the mitzvos as the boy is. And though something perhaps may not necessarily warrant a party, it is nonetheless permissible and a nice thing to do for a girl, to mark the occasion. I still believe one should not go overboard, however.
“I’m so disgusted when they turn radio songs into jewish songs. “
Isn’t it better,though, that they have taken a secular piece and elevated it to something more meaningful? There is nothing intrinsically wrong with secular tunes. It’s the lyrics that sometimes make the tunes disgusting. The Maoz Tzur that most of us sing is a non-Jewish tune, isn’t it?
” If you think that particular choice is discretionary you should carefully study the relevant section in Chovos HaLevovos where he demonstrates clearly that nothing is discretionary. this is a basic fundamental of this world and found in many classic Seforim. “
“Tell that to all the people who rent a fancy bungalow every summer, or build a summer home in the mountains. Exactly how many residences DO we need? I am pretty sure many of the husbands have learned what is in the classic seforim, and the many rabbonim who go away every summer are surely familiar with the Chovos Halevovos. hashem gave us a world to enjoy. He did not order us to live like ascetics, and in fact we are held accountable for doing so after 120 years, and are asked why we did not partake of the good life (while following the Torah guidelines). If one is blessed with wealth, no one suggests that the person should not travel, buy nice clothing, etc. It just should not be to excess, and it should always be with the idea that as Hashem did a chessed to make them wealthy, so should they show chessed towards others who are not.
I once heard a very well-off woman complain that she was tired of having to pay full tuition, so that other people could get scholarship assistance, which was parlt subsidized by those paying the big tuition bills. The person she was speaking to answered her, “Maybe that’s the reason Hashem gave you all that money, in the first place. So you would have that zechus.”
People have a right to do what they will with their lives…
as long as what they are doing is not illegal/contrary to Torah, harmful to another person or the environment, and reasonably not harmful to themselves. The fact that someone still smokes in this day and age when only a moonrock does not know of the dangers of smoking and second-hand smoke,proves that such a person HAS no good judgment.
The reason Hashem probably gave us the Torah rather than allow us to rely on our good judgment to be good people, is that all too often people show very poor judgment, and judgment is a very subjective thing. We live in a day and age where people who are otherwise nice, fine, moral people think nothing of cheating on their taxes, paying cash so they don’t have to pay tax, and do assorted untzniusdik acts because they are “not hurting anyone.” Good judgment is highly overrated.
What about the fancy Yeshivah dinners?
Rabbi Shmoiger Boiger – I think I KNOW him!!!!!
“oomis1105- you are IRISH?? “
Only on me puir mither’s side. (JK)….
Arc, people DO have the right to spend their money as they see fit, you are correct. But when they spend all that money on unnecessary frills for a party that lasts four hours, and then claim they have no money to give to tzedaka (which I have seen happen more times than I would like), that is not frumkeit. And who said not to spend money on fancy things – most people here just feel that excess is wrong.
Um… Did someone say CHOCOLATE?????????
When it is more Bar than mitzvah, it is not appropriate for the boys, either. I see no reason why people should not celebrate when either their son or daughter reaches the age of kabalas ol hamitzvos, but not in a showy and garish way of conspicuous consumption.
A boy is no more special than a girl, and it is therefore no less a simcha when a girl reaches Bas-Mitzvah. The difference is that a boy gets an aliyah to the Torah. They are both equally chayav in the mitzvos. If anything, a girl has that distinction a year earlier than a boy. Anyone who goes overboard for either event, is wasting an opportunity, IMO. My father O”H used to say it would be far better to give the money being spent on unnecessary things for the party (such as both a smorgasbord AND a meal, a Viennese Table or flowers), and donate it to tzedaka. The Divrei Torah being given at the simcha, make it special, along with the lebedigkeit.
I never heard of this practice until two years ago, and I have of LOTS of broken engagements.
GAW. what you said makes a great deal of sense. Of course if one contemplates getting engaged, breaking it off, or getting divorced, advice should be sought from people who can help the person. That is NOT the same as saying one should ask a shailah. Shailahs are specific halachic questions. They require a p’sak, not simply advice.
I guess I take issue with the notion that every single aspect of one’s life needs to be addressed to a rov and governed by his pronouncements. We need to be adults and take responsibility for our own decisions in life, as well as charge of our lives. If I splashed a drop of milk in the chicken soup, I have a chiyuv to run to the rov with the shailah. But – if I am thinking of moving into a new home, that is my business and doesn’t require the input of a rov, unless he happens to be my father/father-in-law, or a realtor. In my experience many rabbanim, contrary to popular belief, are NOT qualified by mere virtue of having semicha, to discuss personal issues and give helpful advice. An engagement is not a pot of soup.
“oomis1105-Your Grandmother may not have formally learned out of a sefer, but she definitly learned Torah experiantially-and by living it. That’s how most women learned that which they needed to for centuries in order to preserve klal yisroel-and until the Bais Yaakov movement.”
That’s true, but the person who commented (which prompted MY comment) said that it is IMPOSSIBLE to be an observant Jew without someone “learning Torah several hours a day. IMPOSSIBLE!” And that gets my Irish up, as they say, because there were so many people who never attended Yeshivah, who grew up in frum homes and were extremely obervant all their lives. Living Torah is as important as learning Torah. When someone makes the statement to which I responded, it sounds very negative to me, as if ONLY the Yeshivah bochurim know how to be frum. That just ain’t so.
I am not a professional baker who went to school to learn how to be a pro, but I learned by observing my mom and Bubby O”H how to make challah, and an assortment of pastries and cakes, as well as cook for my family. One does not always need to learn in a formal way in order to be good at something. Likewise, though of course it is good that someone learns Torah as much as he can, it does not mean that the shomer shabbos person sitting next to him in shul who does not learn several hours a day is not religiously observant. That is a tad elitist to think that way.
For anyone who DOES get the flu, if you are given tamiflu, be aware that it has the potential side effect of severe nausea and vomiting, resulting in dehydration.
I agree with the comment implying that men have the same obligation to remain clean and attractive to their wives as the wives have to the husbands. A woman who bears children, may not always be able to keep the same figure she had when she first got married, but what is a husband’s excuse for becoming slovenly? Both husband AND wife should always strive to be clean and pleasant in demeanor and form, to the best of their ability, out of consideration for each other. Deodorant costs very little, and a daily shower, especially in the warmer weather, is a MUST. Greasy hair is a turnoff, and so is bad breath. Such EASY things to fix!
I think DOvid should ask the girl out if he likes her. It sounds liek Hashem was the shadchan here.
“How can a person even consider doing something as important and life changing as getting engaged or breaking an engagement without asking a shailah? “
In matters of halacha, I agree with you. But I do not have to ask my rov a shailah about getting married, unless there is an inyan that bothers me in the shidduch and he is nogeya to it. If he doesn’t know the boy or girl, what exactly is the shailah you are asking? If it is OKAY to get married? I might want my rov to give me a chosson/kallah shmuz, or counsel me about different things that might come up in the future. But I certainly do not need his heter. I would ask for a bracha, not ask a shailah. Where are the parents in all this?
Mosherose, you must have a fascinating, incredible family, because it is usually very boring and limiting to spend time ONLY with your family.
It may actually be so, that some MIL feels a little jealous of the youth of her DIL and her displaced position in her son’s life (doesn’t seem to be a problem in the reverse where the mother of the girl feels that way about the daughter’s husband). It can be disconcerting to know someone else can take care of one’s son, and maybe even do a better job! The best way to handle that is with a lot of love and a lot of seichel on the part of the DIL, who will hopefully someday also be a MIL to her son’s wife. It IS a two-way street, after all.
A woman Outside is right. Kellerman’s work changed after the first couple, probably because she wanted to attract a more mainstream audience.
So what is the obligation of a wife to her husband when she is either the sole breadwinner, or contributes 50/50 to the household income? What is HIS obligation to her, in that event (I thought the kesubah says that befeirush, but apparently it is not always found to be the case)? The reality today is that more often than not, women are out in the workforce, so would all of you still answer the same way?
So many interesting points. I would like to make a blanket statement. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and is extremely subjective. Just because a woman is physically attractive, dos not mean she will be attractive to a specific man. What should we do, a start choosing our friends or guests based on their UNATTRACTIVENESS (which is also subjective)???? This can get really out of hand.
I think many of us here are author wannabes (myself included). At least if we write something dumb, no one knows who we are…. 😉
“* In reality, we’re still dating anyway… we never stopped. Why let a wedding get in the way of a good dating relationship? 🙂 “
LOL, my husband says the same thing. In fact we go out for a regular “date night” (more like “date lunch” as he no longer works on Fridays now,so we go out for lunch and share a bagel and tuna). It’s really important for a couple, no matter how long they are married, to treat each other as boyfriend and girlfriend.
Whew, GAW! I was starting to get nervous! The words H”O literally mean the bringing in of guests. So I am really not clear on why the Remo felt so specifically as he did, and I am curious to explore the halacha further. Thank you for the information.
BTW, if your mother-in-law IS being very nosey and invasive in a really obnoxious way (you, being the daughter-in-law), then it is up to your HUSBAND to set her straight. He should be coming to your defense and really have your back. Unless she is right, of course, and you should acknowledge that this is a possibility, and learn from the things she has to say.
You won’t find a fabulous Jewish novel (though Naomi Ragen and Faye Kellerman have written some), because they are written at a juvenile level. Frum writers are so scared of offending people (with good cause), that they write relatively bland, stuff.
I plan to discuss this with my Rov tonight after our shiur. I will specify that the Remo wrote this, and ask him what it means. As far as I am concerned, and as I said before, I will continue to invite my orchim whether or not they travel from out of town and whether or not I get the mitzvah of H”O for it. My friend lives a few blocks away, but it is hard for her to walk now, and she comes in a wheelchair. I specifically invite her because it is harder now for her to prepare all the yom tov meals for herself and her husband,and they are alone. Why should they sit alone with no one else to talk to? So the Remo is telling me that Hashem does not consider that to be hachnossas orchim??? I’m checking with Uncle Moishy and the Mitzvah Men, pronto!!!!!
I could not agree more with Jewishandworking22. This new “fear” that is overtaking our community, is going down a road that will eventually lead to people being disenfranchised and isolated. Not only will our young people not know how to socially interact in an appropriate manner as we are already seeing, but NOBODY will interact with anyone other than their immediate family. That used to be referred to as clannish – not a flattering adjective, btw. Way to go for achdus Yisroel!
MM, that is a lovely thought, but I would rather you had said that a Jew learning l’shmo does as much for klal Yisroel as the IDF. It is insulting to the IDF, many of whom are frum yidden who learn Torah regularly, to diminish their contribution and self-sacrifice, literally mesiras hanefesh, to ensure the safety of those Jews who are learning in E”Y l’shmo. If Hashem wanted us to believe that learning alone is worth more than defense of E”Y, then why do you think He would have sent Am Yisroel into any milchemes mitzvah or milchemes reshus? I believe both aspects are crucial to E”Y’s survival, and the Israeli soldier is to be strongly appreciated for the risks that are taken on behalf of others. Those who especially need to be makir tov to them are those of us who second guess Israel at every turn, from the safety of our homes here in the USA.
The worst cellphone issue is when someone goes to a levaya or shiva house and fails to turn the sound off. With all the musical ringtones so prevalent today, it’s a boosha and incredibly thoughtless that the aveilim have to be subjected to this when they are at the height of mourning.
I don’t agree, mybat, that the generations are getting lower. The move to the right has been in greater numbers than ever before in the last 100 years. More boys AND girls are learning in Yeshivah from the time they enter nursery school. Unprecedented numbers of high school graduates are going to learn for more than one year in E”Y, and most of the boys continue at least half (if not most of)a day in Beis Medrash. There are more kollel boys than ever before, and a substantial number of them comes from homes that would be considered more modern. I feel the generations have gotten to a madreiga that is anything BUT lower. Yes, there are problems, but there have ALWAYS been problems from the times of the Avos and Emahos.
Whew!!!! Do you truly believe that? My Bubby never formally learned Torah in her life, and I guarantee you she was a very pious, religiously-observant woman, who raised two frum children, after being widowed at a young age. It may not be possible to know all the halachos without learning Torah many hours a day, but that is why we have Rabbanim of which to ask shailas. My husband is a Baal Teshuvah of over thirty-six years, and he has never sat in Yeshivah for many hours a day at any time. He is a VERY Torah-observant Jew. Your statement is not 100% accurate, though we do believe that an am haaretz cannot be a chosid. However anyone who has a rudimentary knowledge of kashrus, shmiras Shabbos, and hilchos Taharas Hamishpacha, all of which can be learned in sufficient amounts without ever learning for several hours a day, can be a shomer Torah u’mitzvos. It is not, as you say, IMPOSSIBLE.
You can keep a soup in a crockpot from 4PM Friday until almost 24 hours later, and it doesn’t SPOIL????? How do you make it?
Mazca, regarding the recipes, next time your DIL is by you, maybe you can make the food item WITH her. Then she will see exactly how to do it, and you and she will have some bonding time together. As mothers-in-law we have to be extra makpid not to say or do something that can lend itself to misinterpretation as a put-down. It’s like the old psychiatrist joke. A psychiatrist met someone going down the hallway and when the person passed by and said, “Good morning,” the doc replied, “What do you MEAN by that???”
If it doesn’t have to specifically be Chanukah-oriented, Pictionary is my favorite.
I am with NY MOM. If you love your husband, remember he is the product of the way in which she raised him. Maybe her advice is CORRECT. Even if it is not, or you merely think it is not, you can still thank her for her input and then do whatever you and your husband choose. She is not the enemy, but if you act immaturely and always think that no matter what she says, it’s wrong, then YOU are the problem, not she. I ahd an outstanding relationship with my in-laws, and they often voiced their unsolicited opinions. So what? So did my parents. Sometimes their opinions were very valuable and saved us from making costly mistakes. When I felt that something they said wasunhelpful, I thanked them anyway, and did what I felt was best. We NEVER had a personal machlokess about anything. And I wish they were both still alive to continue to give me advice.
“that maybe one should be put into cherein.” (Jewishandworking)
I SO cannot resist this – the only thing that should ever be put in cherein is gefilte fish! (sorry, I don’t mean to make fun of you, and I apologize in advance).
GAW, I am sure that there are many, many people who regularly invite others over for a Shabbos meal, who would be very surprised as am I, to hear that they had no mitzvah in doing so unless the people were from out of town. I plan to continue inviting people, even if I get no sachar for it, because it enhances my Oneg Shabbos and Yom Tov to share with my family and friends. I also plan to speak to my Rov about this, because it is contradictory to everything I have ever learned my entire life.
BP Totty makes a lot of sense.
Good point, mybat.
Rivkib, appropos of what you wrote, my husband was engaged for less than a week, to a very nice woman who just was not ready to be married (she had been married and emotionally very scarred). My husband ran into a Rov who was very special to him who had heard of the engagement, but not of the breakup, and when he enthusiastically hugged my husband and said Mazeltov, my husband had to say he was sorry to tell him but the engagement was broken. Without missing a single beat, the Rov answered, MAZELTOV, let’s go learn.
Mrs. B . What you state is unfortunately no longer really true today. The chassidic world unfortunately is rapidly catching up to the rest in terms of divorces. I am not going to post here the things that I have read or heard, but unless one wears blinders, one knows that things have changed a great deal. That is not to say that the chassidish way that you describe does not work well for many people. But even thirty-five years ago, chassidim were surreptitiously going for marriage counseling of a specific nature, and I know this because I dated a frum therapist whose clientelle was ALL chassidish. Without breaching doctor/patient confidentiality, I was told eye-opening things about problems in chassidish marriage, and that was a long time ago. Things have gotten more out in the open, and divorce, while not desirable, has less of a social stigma than it once did.
You write that your husband would not appreciate your inviting your friend and her husband to a shabbos meal. My husband would not appreciate it if I were to REFRAIN from inviting couples to our Shabbos table. So you see it really is a matter of one’s perspective. Hachnossas orchim is a very huge mitzvah D’Oraisa. I totally respect your position on this, but it is a derech that I find very limiting.
Jewishandworking, you make an interesting point. In any case, when people break it off, it is only menschlech to sincerely verbalize to the aggrieved party that one is sorry. I fail to see why a contract is needed. my understanding from my friend whose son wrote the shtar, is that had the girl not received it, no shadchan would ever set her up again. Sorry, folks, but on so many levels this bothers me.
What if the parents are at fault for the shidduch breaking up, as happens SO often? Maybe the chosson’s mother who thought her sonny boy was too good for the kallah, should have to ask the kallah for mechilah. Maybe the kallah’s father who agreed to X number of dollars “kest” decided to renege, thus angering the chosson’s family. Maybe both sets of parents who fought like dogs during the wedding planning, should ask their CHILDREN for mechilah for ruining their future together. Or maybe it is NOBODY’S fault, it just did not work out.
I think that story is great, and I feel like there is a reason why that tire went flat in that time and place. When Hashem is the only Shadchan, people should pay attention. We are making it way too hard for our kids to meet each other.
I already have read his article(s). I still respectfully do not agree with all that he says, and since it is not a matter of halacha, I can have a different perspective based on my own conversations with some of those same people. The fact that someone is a Rov does not also mean his opinion in non-halachic matters is the only valid one. To believe otherwise is not a matter of kovod harav, but naivete. Rabbanim are subject to the same prejudices, foibles, and errors of judgment that we all are. Let’s try to not deify them. I have spoken to this rov and his wife many times, and respect ALL of what he says, but happen to disagree with some of it. Period.
Many women want out of their marriages for reasons having nothing whatsoever to do with those things that were mentioned. Like everything else today, all the ills of religious society are being blamed on these things. If someone is in a car accident and dies chalilah, it’s not because he was driving carelessly or was too sleepy to drive, or ran a stop sign, it’s because of the internet, or because girls are wearing slits in their skirts. While unquestionably there IS a problem with abuse of the internet, and tznius could be improved greatly, we need to start assigning blame where it belongs – on the husband who surfs the internet for porn, which he could filter from his computer, or the wife who feels unfulfilled and chooses to flirt with men instead of doing her job at work. When couples socialize together, it is pretty obvious if someone is acting or speaking inappropriately, and that is a social relationship that needs to be ended. But it is not the fault of socializing in general, nor is it the fault of living in a computer age. All things need to be done with seichel and moderation, and the yetzer hara is present in ALL things and aspects of life, so maybe we should just lock ourselves up in a tiny room and never go outside our daled amos.
I am curious – what if the aggrieved party is NOT moichel? The engagement is broken, but a shtar mechilah will not be given by that person. Does this mean the other party who broke off the engagement cannot get married, will not be redt shidduchim, etc? And what if the engagement is broken by mutual agreement that they both made a mistake? Who gives whom the Shtar? I never even heard of this concept until about two years ago. I knwo many people whose engagements were broken over the years, but they never gave or received a shtar mechilah.