sechel83

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  • in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2218519
    sechel83
    Participant

    In the month of elul , the king – g-d comes to the field and is available to be approached – get closer to him, ask their needs- more than the rest of the year, when more preparation is needed. We say ברכנו אבינו כלנו כאחד, and many similar ideas say in torah that hashem likes when his children are one and love each other, and he blesses them, answers their requests etc .
    A simple example: when your child comes to you and asks to buy him a toy, so if he’s coming straight from beeting up his brother and calling him derogatory names, you may not be as exited to fulfill his request vs if he is acting nicely with his brother and helping him out, giving him compliments and also inside really looking at the good in him and loving him
    Just reminding everyone of the famous Torah of the baal shem tov (mentioned in בעל שם טוב על התורה פרשת מצורע ובכ”מ) that any bad one sees in another, hes just looking at a miror – himself)
    P.s. as i wrote before, i backed off of this stupid argument. So im not answering any attacks. This post i feel is better.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2216780
    sechel83
    Participant

    Time for elul .

    הקב”ה אומר לישראל:

    אני נותן לכם עשרים ותשעה, שלשים יום, אשר במשך הימים האלו, אם תנתקו עצמכם מהרגילות והנהגות הלא טובות שנהגתם עד עתה – ונס שמה. תנוסו לתוך הסדר והנהגה של אלול להשתקע שם – אזי תוכלו לתקן כל מה שלא הי’ כדבעי למיהוי עד עתה, ובמילא יהי’ למקלט מגואל הדם מכל הקטרוגים.

    וע”י תשובה,

    בתחלה תשובה מיראה, שנעשו לו כשגגות, ואח”כ תשובה מאהבה, שנעשו לו כזכיות –

    תכתבו ותחתמו – לאלתר בספרן של צדיקים

    ל ש נ ה ט ו ב ה ו מ ת ו ק ה.
    תורת מנחם חלק ג עמוד 290
    I consider my arguing a not good הנהגה. So…

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2216697
    sechel83
    Participant

    Ill try to make a summary of the past 14 pages:
    Disclaimer im just doing this for fun, im not trying to convince anyone, and i think about 99% of rabbonim today consider 99% of chabad totally frum yiden.
    Basically some claim its a christian idea to beleive moshiach can come from the dead, the ramban writes about this, and others answered its a gemara, abarbanel, sdai chedem etc, so at most its a machlokes
    Some argued that a lot of chabad prays to the rebbe and think he’s g-d, and others simply say its hallucination
    Some referred to a sicha where they claim the rebbe says that the previous rebbe was g-d and therefore one can pray to him
    Others answered that they simply twisted the words, the rebbe is talking about asking for brachos and tikunim (which when the rebbe said this sicha in 1950, it was not as accepted as now to ask for brachos from a tzadik, some considered this a ממוצע), and the rebbe says that all jews are one with g-d (zahar) and also chassidim and the rebbe are one thing, so it comes out there is no ממוצע because its atzmus umehus how he enclothed himself in a body and brings a zohar and yerushalmi to compare it to, so 1) its not even clear to me that the body the rebbe is referring to is the previous rebbe, in fact the rebbe was speaking after the frierdiker rebbe passed away 2) the rebbe clearly compares it too a zohar and yerushalmi and clearly wants it to be understood the same as you would understand those sources. (the sicha is printed in likutai sichos vol 2 page 509 and on)
    They also brought many other sources niglah and kabala that say this same idea,
    The anti chabad continued to argue that the niglah and kabbalah seforim dont mean it literally but the rebbe meant it literally, and for that reason one should not learn kabala.
    Chabad answered: well first why do you assume the rebbe meant it different then all the other seforim? 2) one of the things chassidus came to do was to explain kabala so everyone can learn it (including this idea is explained at length in many places in chassidus), and its not only kabbalah, its also niglah as mentioned, in fast one reading chumash sees the idea of a body terms for hashem which you end up with the same issue to explain. 3) if so, how come almost all the gedolim didn’t talk out against it, the sicha was said in 1950, printed in 1962, and it took decades for (all the big gedolim to pass away) someone (a professor) to come out against it (he did get some endorsement from a few real misnagdishe rabbanim)
    The anti chabad say, that none of the gedolim ever heard of this sicha, if they would have, they would have definitely came out against the rebbe. And really many gedolim even who endorsed the rebbe only did it to be more accepted, they wrote things they didn’t mean, but told one person what they really held.
    chabad answered: i see how much you hold of your gedolim, such a big problem happening in the world that chabad is openly serving a”z ch”v and bringing more and more jews to do so, and none of the gedolim cared, spoke up? Look in gemerah shabbos about the churban that the gedolim were punished for not speaking up. It also talks there about chanifa, how bad it is, so i would make a machaa for accusing reb moshe of that and also writing sheker.
    Sorry if i missed any important issues, i didn’t have so much time to look thru everything, but i think i covered the main points.
    I will add that i myself IF i would see anyone referring to the rebbe as g-d or praying to him, i would consider him to be serving a”z, but i to date (living in chabad communities all my life, learning in 770 for yrs, going to many many shluchim) never heard of this idea till i heard it from litvaks

    in reply to: questions about the yeshivish world #2216447
    sechel83
    Participant

    @avirah , ok so I guess you should agree with me not to attack the rebbe’s sichos and instead to speak to one of his close talmidim. You can call rabbi sholom charitonov, or many other chabad rabbi’s.
    Btw look in mesilas yeshorim about emes. Also in addition to emes there would be many other issues to call the Rebbe tzaddik yesod elem, like chanifa which the Gemara says אין מקבלים פני שכינה
    So for me it’s much simpler to say reb Moshe was a smart man and was able to understand the rebbe’s sichos properly and meant what he wrote
    G-d in a body just needs the basics – Tanya perek 2, חסידות מבוארת does a great job explaining.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2216446
    sechel83
    Participant

    Ok how many circles do you want to go in. The Rebbe quotes a Zohar very simple, some accuse the Rebbe of explaining the Zohar in a way that they consider a”z. To me the Rebbe is very clearly just saying the same thing that it says in Zohar, anyone who says otherwise is motzi shem ra, choshed bichsharim, etc. etc.
    The Rebbe never said g-d is inclothed in a body, maybe berger said that.
    He never said you can pray to the Rebbe.
    Simply never happened. People who can’t read, or maybe have schizophrenia say thats what the Rebbe said.
    I was just trying to explain to their schizophreniac mind that they will also run into questioning all the other gedolim according to their hallucination

    in reply to: Whys ChatGPT allowed in the coffee room?? #2216406
    sechel83
    Participant

    @square root, how is this thread connected to moshiach. And being that you appently hold that anything christians took from Judaism, we need to throw out , do they read the Torah in your shul? Do they pray to g-d, do you have a shul at all? These are all things that christians copied.

    in reply to: The final word on Moshiach from the meisim (hopefully!) #2216378
    sechel83
    Participant

    @5783 smart comment. Rav shach was against learning rambam for this reason, people read it, don’t learn the mekoros,and think they know everything , and can pasken

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2216371
    sechel83
    Participant

    @mdd1 you agree it’s a misunderstanding in sifrai kabala, ao the question is why you assume chabad or the Rebbe ch”v had this misunderstanding, it’s much more rational to say Dr berger had this misunderstanding or you have this misunderstanding then to say the Rebbe or chabad does.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2216361
    sechel83
    Participant

    @qwerty613, that’s exactly my point, that reb Moshe and all the rest of the gedolim didn’t have an issue with the statement because they knew Gemara , Zohar etc, so from 1962 (when it was printed) no one had an issue till some am haaratzim that don’t know the above seforim saw the sicha and think it’s a”z ch”v

    @qwerty
    if you know what rav Moshe would say, why don’t you take his place as a gadol hador. You’re trying to say that rav Moshe being the “unquestioned gadol hador” till he passed away would let such a big movement as chabad start serving a”z and be mikarev thousands and thousands of Jews to this beleife, and he was afraid to speak up? He didn’t know of the sicha? He definitely knew about it, there were misnagdim then also who spoke about it and definitely people brought it to him. And if not well being the gadol hador, it’s definitely his achrayos to know what’s going on in chabad. So my conclusion is that he knew and had no issue (cuz as the Rebbe brings it’s a clear yerushalmi and a Zohar) and later on people like berger who don’t know yerushalmi and Zohar decided it’s kefira. Btw even today who even accepts the anti chabad movement, seems like it’s only some talmidim of rav shach, and even those, it doesn’t seem like they really care because if they thought chabad was a”z, they have a mitzvah to uproot it, I think it’s just politics.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2216296
    sechel83
    Participant

    @qwerty613, that’s exactly my point, that reb Moshe and all the rest of the gedolim didn’t have an issue with the statement because they knew Gemara , Zohar etc, so from 1962 (when it was printed) no one had an issue till some am haaratzim that don’t know the above seforim saw the sicha and think it’s a”z ch”v

    in reply to: questions about the yeshivish world #2216301
    sechel83
    Participant

    @avira what reb Moshe wrote means nothing, maybe also his tshuvos he didn’t really mean, so you don’t hold of rav Moshe as ish emes?! Pretty disrespectful to think so of a gadol, where’s the limit? Who can decide what he really held of what he did to be accepted? Someone who knows nothing compared to him? Even if rav belsky told you, well I hold of rav Moshe more than rav belsky,and definitely more than you, as far as I know rav belsky never said it

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2216298
    sechel83
    Participant

    @arsa. Great point, but think more a second, the teams job was to figure the mekoros for everything the Rebbe said, so what does that mean?
    You think the Rebbe read out of a toras Menachem?

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2216081
    sechel83
    Participant

    @Qwerty. To reemphasize my question, some claim that there is an issue ch”v with the rebbe’s statement, it was already mentioned that the same statement exists in Gemara, Zohar, rishonim, kabala, kedushas Levi etc.
    Some still claim there is a difference,
    So my question is that if it’s a”z why were all the gedolim of the privious generation quiet. I would assume reb Moshe would speak out if he thought it was an issue, but we see that he kept encouraging the rebbe’s mivtzoim etc.

    in reply to: questions about the yeshivish world #2216030
    sechel83
    Participant

    So I guess I have my answer, thanks, so what is the idea of a gadol hador like r chaim kanievski, etc? Just wondering?
    And @avira is that true that Mishna brura and mesilas yeshorim are universely accepted? Why is that? Who decided to accept these seforim and why?

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2216008
    sechel83
    Participant

    What about using this forum on internet, pretty sure all gedolim came out against using internet unless litzorech parnasa, besides for chabad

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2216005
    sechel83
    Participant

    @the claim that the Rebbe said that hashem and the Rebbe are one
    לקוטי שיחות חלק ב was printed in תשכב, 1962,
    Almost all the gedolim and rebbe’s had no issue, till rav shach started attacking chabad in the 80’s
    Then they claim it’s based on that sicha.
    Can someone please explain.
    @ why do I claim the Rebbe was Baki in almost every Sefer printed before the war? Listen to his sichos, and look at them printed with מראה מקומות,
    An average farbrengen the Rebbe quotes 2-300 m”m no hesitation, no seforim, no notes, and this was on a weekly basis alot of years, and from נגלה,קבלה,חסידות everything, nothing to argue about, just open a תורת מנחם, לקוטי שיחות שיחות קודש

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2215353
    sechel83
    Participant

    @yankel berel. I have no issue with the history of the Rebbe. I think the only people who think that book speaks negative about the Rebbe are the people who only read the introduction and as one of his own conclusions, there isn’t any negative history there, I think everyone should read it (but I think chaim millers book is much more researched.)
    It’s hard for people like us to calculate the level of depth in the rebbe’s Torah. But one thing is seems to everyone clear is the Rebbe was Baki in basically every Sefer printed before the war. To as and I’m not trying to say that there weren’t others, but it’s a chutzpah for people to disrespect the Rebbe, that’s all

    in reply to: questions about the yeshivish world #2215114
    sechel83
    Participant

    so back to my question anyone have an answer for me, is there any sefer that is accepted by the litvish community, like if it says something there, everyone listens, or there is no such thing, just wondering?

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2215100
    sechel83
    Participant

    the difference between chabad’s view on chabad and the rebbe, and the misnagdim is this:
    chabad: look at over 200 volumes of the rebbes torah, videos, audio, first hand stories of open ruach hakodesh and miracles (even many stories you can see the actual miracle or ruach hakodesh on video), we have nothing to hide, if you dont see the gadlus, well you must be beyond stupid.
    misnaged: my freind in 9th grade told me that rav .. said this, rav .. said this. even though rav moshe and every other litvishe gadolim respected chabad (as documented) but that was before…, i heard that he didn’t really mean it, my rebbi told me that …, professor berger (i guess the latest gadol) wrote … etc…
    vda”l
    pretty crazy how people can deny such obvious facts.
    this is what it says in ikvosa dimshicha

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2214596
    sechel83
    Participant

    @qwerty613 “Rav Moshe was the unquestioned Gadol Hador”
    besides for when rav shach wrote a letter against the lag beomer parade, in 5740, and reb moshe wrote a letter afterwards to go, for some reason the misnagdim disregarded reb moshe. or reb moshe’s letter to all jews in 5738 to do the rebbe’s mivtzoim – tefillin etc. all can be found in the sefer מנחם משיב נפשי, documented evidence vs “my friend in 9th grade told me…) or when reb moshe came to the rebbe and had a pivate audience, and said that any inyan in torah to spoke to the rebbe about, it seemed the rebbe just learned the sugya. etc. etc.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2214174
    sechel83
    Participant

    (i forgot) on my post about the rebbe being a navi, i brought up the point that nisbatel nevuah, and i asked you back that the gemara says that yiras chait and anava were also, so will you attack someone who claims your rosh yeshiva or godol has yiras chait or anava?
    so stop hacking and learn the sugya, menachem already quoted the sicha, and a rambam to learn.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2214168
    sechel83
    Participant

    @mdd, Sechel83, for real? You expect me to give you on the spot pshatim in deep concepts from the Zohar? Most people should not be even looking at those statements. It can cause michsholim as we have seen.
    again my point, the reason only litvaks have an issue with it (assuming its not from hate) is because they dont learn chasidus, anyone who learns chassidus is not blown off by it because this is a basic idea of chassidus and was talks about since the baal shem tov.
    so i agree with you, litvaks should not look at that statement the first thing, if you start likutai sichos chelek alef, and go in order, by the time you reach that sicha, i guarantee you 100% you wont have any issue with it.
    (btw i only found the marai makom of that specific quote thanks to avira on tyw, just trying to say that although i learned the sicha before, its not something i learn every day, the idea is mentioned in i think bahaloscha 5751 about every yid)

    in reply to: questions about the yeshivish world #2214154
    sechel83
    Participant

    from the way litvaks look at g-d, seems like they have many g-ds, seems like they hold some gedolim higher than g-d, after all hashem gave the torah to make shalom in the world, but some gedolim argued, divrai harav vidivrai hatalmid divrai mi shomim.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2214146
    sechel83
    Participant

    wo! crazy thread. i didn’t make the psak, plenty of accepted (by you guys i hope (i hope you dont only hold of rav shach) rabbanim did ie. הרב ישעיה אשר אייכנשטיין מזדיטשוב, הרב יעקב מנחם רבינוביץ מביאלא, הרב אהרן רוזנפלד מפינסק קרלין,הרב אליעזר דוב פרידמן (רב בית המדרש בעלזאורב דחסידי בעלזא – מכנובקא, לונדון), הרב שמעון סופר (האדמו”ר מערלוי צפת), הרב אליהו שמעון מרציאנו דיין בבית הדין בעניני ממונות צפת – מירון, הרב אהרן יחיאל לייפר מנדבורנא, הרב יעקב יוסף (בהגר”ע) [רב שכונת גבעת משה, וראש כולל חזון יעקב, ירושלים],
    go scream at them,
    very simple, the rebbe prophesized what will happen by the 6 day war and the golf war as well as countless private matters, and it happened, the rambam says such a person is a navi (if he goes bidarchai hanvuah which obviously the rebbe is qualified)
    @? “and, as usual, ignored actual statements that I cited as ridiculous, e.g. the proof of Messianism from the fact that Beis Mashiach has the gematria of 770.”
    first find my the quote! you just hear things from random people, there is a 10 page sicha about the idea of bais rabainu shebibovel, what you wrote is totally twisting that FOOTNOTE (its not a proof to anything) just learn the whole sicha. as well as your issue with shalosh siudos and suckah and i forgot if there was anything else, it all twisting and was already discused on tyw.
    (sholosh seudos is a halacha is shu”a, as well as suckah, one of the complaints the litvaks have on suckah is the rebbe said sleeping is not part of the mitzvah – well the rebbe just quotes a rogetchover who makes a diyuk in the rambam, learn the sicha, learn chassidus, and
    anyway im thinking of stopping to post
    1) i realized that the people who actually have an issue with chabad these days are like 1 in a million
    2) i couldnt care less for myself even if every other gadol had an issue with chabad, but i would like to educate people who nebech were misinformed, but i realize, that such people are not looking for the truth.
    i may still post when im board to have fun.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2213831
    sechel83
    Participant

    @mdd thats my point, because we learn chassidus at length and in depth we understand it correctly (look in derech mitzvosecha, shoresh mitzvas hatfilah) the people who dont learn chassidus, see one line out of context and go crazy. and then scream at us for learning kabala cuz they thnk we understand it the same way they do. so whats your pshat?

    @arso
    one of the 13 ikrim is that there is nevuah, the rambam gives simanim on who is a navi which we all saw by the rebbe, signed a psak din that reads as follows
    הרינו קובעים בזה פסק הלכה על-פי דין תורתנו הקדושה – מבוסס על ההלכה שברמב”ם פרק ז’ הלכות יסודי התורה הלכה א’, פרק ט’ הלכה ב’ ופרק י’ הלכה א’ – שכבוד קדושת אדמו”ר מלך המשיח יש לו דין נביא ומפורש בשיחותיו הקדושות שמרמז על עצמו שהוא נביא ומובן משיחותיו הקדושות שהוא הוא המלך המשיח, וכן עודד שירת “יחי אדוננו מורנו ורבינו מלך המשיח לעולם ועד”, וכבר אמר לעיני כל ישראל ולעיני כל העולם דברים העתידים להיות ובאו דבריו ונתקיימו במילואם ב’מלחמת ששת הימים’ וב’מלחמת המפרץ’ ועוד ועוד.
    ועל כן מחויבים אנו לשמוע לכל אשר יאמר לנו מגדר החיוב לשמוע לדברי הנביא, ובכלל זה – שהוא המלך המשיח ויתגלה אלינו מיד ממש
    so if you know any chazal (which from your last attack, it seems not so) you will ask from sotah, well then you will have the same question on anava and yiras chait.
    so learn the whole sicha inside, and you wont have questions.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2213549
    sechel83
    Participant

    here are some quotes from this page:
    because I had a rebbe in yeshiva who told us straight out. He said Lubavitchers who think the Rebbe is Mashiach are like Christians
    Rav Shach and Dr. Berger said this clearly. There are many Rabbis and laymen who agree with their positions.
    I have heard it from several Elder Rosh Yeshivos
    Dr. Berger wrote in his book that eight prominent Chabad Rabbis averred that the Rebbe was “G-d clothed in human form.
    so i assume some people are trying to claim that all litvaks think chabad are apikorsim, well guess what, the gra put chassidim in cherem, you know why? simply becasue lies were going around about chassidim, thats why already in the times of the tzemach tzedek, the machlokes was over, no one keeps the cherem anymore. so too today, lies were spread etc, history repeats itself.
    btw check out my post on a different thread with sources that a neshama is a chelek eloka (including a maharsha and a pnei yehoshua) and @avira thats not what the rebbe says, the question is about asking tikunim from a rebbe dosent say davening there.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2213547
    sechel83
    Participant

    @qwerty613. someone asked a simililar question to the rebbe, the answer is printed in אגרות קודש חלק א אגרת פה, its a long answer with many sources, fascinating answer.

    seforim which say that a neshama is a חלק אלקה ממעל
    חדושי אגדות מהרש”א (שבת לב, א חלק אלקה בלי תיבת ממעל) פני יהושע ב”מ נח ב, מלבי”ם ישעי’ נ, א (ובכמה מקומות בספרו) העמק דבר ואתחנן ז, י ובכמה מקומות בספרו. ועוד
    רמ”ק בספר הפרדס ריש שער לב, ראשית חכמה שער האהבה פ”א ופ”ב ובכ”מ שם. האריז”ל בשער רוח הקודש דף ל”ט ע”א בהוצאת ירושלים – צויין בהערות על תניא ולקוטי תורה פ’ בראשית. שפע טל (למקובל ר’ שבתי שעפטל הורוויץ, תלמיד הרמ”ק) בהקדמה ובארוכה בספרו נשמת שבתי הלוי (שער ד ואילך). של”ה בבית חכמה בסופו (ובכ”מ בספרו) יושר לבב (לבעל משנת חסידים) בית א חדר ד פ”ב. יערות דבש ח”א דרוש א. אור החיים ר”פ בראשית ועוד
    it that enough sources? so whoever has an issue with the sicha, 1) they will need to answer all these sources 2) they will need to answer tanya perek 2 (which i understand today, no one has an isse with the baal hatanya, and as time goes on the same will be with the rebbe. (even today almost no one has issues with the rebbe (alot of litvaks say that r shach went against chabad mainly for saying the rebbe is moshiach cuz he weas worried that if it dosent happen, chabad will go off the derech, well now were almost 30 yrs later))).

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2213411
    sechel83
    Participant

    btw i grew up chabad, i never heard anyone in chabad mention anything about the rebbe being g-d ch”v, the first time i heard of this claim, i was over 20 yrs old, and it was from litvaks, some how they got this crazy ideas in their head that thats what chabad preaches, maybe from dr berger or someone else who thinks כל התורה נתנה לעשות שנאה בעולם,

    in reply to: questions about the yeshivish world #2213414
    sechel83
    Participant

    @mdd what does the mishnah is avos and gemarah in brachos say about learning torah without yitas shamayim?
    what deos the rambam say is the way to come to love and fear hashem? what does shulchan aruch say to think about before davening? many more….
    apparently some think everything besides for lumdos is kabala, maybe lumdus is kabala, after all where do we find it in gemara? maybe it comes from eitz chayim?

    in reply to: questions about the yeshivish world #2213409
    sechel83
    Participant

    as mentioned, chassidus in not kabala, sometimes it uses kabala to bring out its ideas. anyone who learns chassidus sees this.

    @mdd1
    : exactly my point, because you dont learn chassidus, then you see a quote from a chabadnik, or likutai sichos, and you think thats a issue, its actually a posuk in iyov חלק אלוק ממעל edited and its one of the main concepts in chassidus explained at leangth all over, (and it applies to every yid) for the past 300 yrs+, suddenly out of hate (no other way to explain it) someone wakes up and makes a big deal about it.

    in reply to: questions about the yeshivish world #2213134
    sechel83
    Participant

    @no mesorah in europe the litvishe women also didint cover their hair – the chafetz chaim writes about it, as well as others,
    @avirah: see the teshuvah i quoted from rav moshe himself where he asks how can chabad follow a psak of the baal hatanya that he told to all the sofrim (its a psak about stam) when they dont know the reason, and the gemaros mentioned, and in sh”u too, and in practiclly every introduction to every halacha book today, or piskei teshuvos, all talk about this idea that in order to pasken you need to understand the psak.
    im just asking uestions, not saying its wrong.

    so back to more uestions on the yeshiva world:
    1) why do they push off getting married passed 20 (especially being that they learn in kolel and dont need to to to work after they get married)
    2) can someone explain to me where this idea came from that a kolel yungerman of 30 (i.e.) is learning day and night since 13, and still didn’t finish shas (even mishnayos) rather he only learned certain mesachtos and mainly spends his day with pilpul. when did this start, and why?
    3) is there a sefer that is accepted by litvaks as their hashkafa? nefesh hachayim? and what percent of litvaks have learned the whole thing?

    in reply to: questions about the yeshivish world #2212773
    sechel83
    Participant

    @avirah: thats my point that since almost all poskim forbade shavers, you cant just rely on reb moshe’s heter if you – your rav – does’nt know the reason, makoros – see the above source i quoted from reb moshe from bava basra 130, also see pesachim bottom of 51a, and also hilchos talmud torah.

    @mdd1
    , thats i point i learned most of shas, not just to be yotze daf yomi, you can test me if you want to see how well i know that i learned. (btw most chabad balei batim learn rambam 3 perakim a day – finish all halachos of torah every 11.5 months, (the others learn 1 perek a day)) my point was that the question was asked assuming chabad dosent learn niglah. (i dont learn pilpulim shel hevel, (maharsha in taanis, shala) but i learn beiyun

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2212772
    sechel83
    Participant

    to much to read today. so ill answer and explain a little for now:
    disclaimer this (and any of my other posts)
    is my own personal opinion, i dont speak for chabad
    my beleif that the rebbe is moshiach has 2 aspects.
    1) based on what chassidus is, which is penimius hatorah, its the deepest level of torah called yechida. it reveals סתים דקוב”ה סתים דאורייתא סתים דישראל. and how these three are all one (answers the other attach someone had on עצמות ומהות מלובש בגוף) and how nothing else exists in the world – אחדות ה. now what a rebbe means is the leader of the generation who has the neshama called yechida haklalis and he reveals by everyone in the generation their yechida shebinefesh to some extent in galus, this will be complete when moshiach comes. (based mainly on קונטרס ענינה של תורת החסידות) so obviously i beleive the rebbe is moshiach (chassidim always beleived this about their rebbe)
    2) the rambam is writing according to halacha how we can tell if someone is moshiach. so the rambam writes ואם יעמד מלך מבית דוד הוגה בתורה ועוסק במצות כדוד אביו. כפי תורה שבכתב ושבעל פה. ויכף כל ישראל לילך בה ולחזק בדקה. וילחם מלחמות ה’. הרי זה בחזקת שהוא משיח. (אם עשה והצליח ובנה מקדש במקומו וקבץ נדחי ישראל הרי זה משיח בודאי.
    so in this aspect to me it seems clear thar the rebbe fit chezkas moshiach and so many rabbonim paskend too. the rebbe never finished and came moshiach vadai.
    now (according to my understanding of the rambam) the rambam says that if this person who is bichezkas moshiach dies then he’s not moshiach, but that just means that from a halachik look, you may have thought he was moshiach, you only saw in him chezkas moshiach so now since he died, he’s not. but this is all in #2, meaning if im a simple jew who never learned chassidus, and only understands technical things so i have no reason to say the rebbe is moshiach now, (my whole reason when he was alive would be because i saw he fit the rambam) but since i learned chassidus b”h, and i have a deeper understanding on what moshiach is so the rebbe is prosumingly still moshiach (this does not contradict the rambam like i explained)
    disclaimer; obviouly the rambam knew all this, but he wrote his sefer for every jew – כקטן כגדול – like he writes in the hakdama.
    i hope i was clear enough – but see קונטרס ענינה של תורת החסידות and likutai sichos vol 27 parshas bechukosai

    @emunas one: #1 read above.
    #2 thanks for the source, but its talking about the idea that the Christians say moshiach already came and is was yoshke, nothing to do with this discussion, i don’t say moshiach already came. and the fact the the ramban published it, well the gemarah was also published. and back to the same question what about the gemarah? and find me a better source that the ramban said moshiach cant come from the dead!

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2212452
    sechel83
    Participant

    aobviouly the rebbe could have made a mistake, we see sometimes he corrected himself when speaking and writing, i dont even understand what you’re trying to ask.
    if you mean that i should judge the rebbe chas vishalom, well look in pirkei avos. for mw whatever the rebbe says is kodesh hakodashim! just like gemarah!
    and if you think im crazy, well see mechilta parshas bishalach, and brisk says the same type of statements, and im sure other litvaks.
    and can you answer this simple question: some litvaks said that beleiving moshiach can come from the dead is kefira, some litvaks take what they said and disregard a clear gemara, can you explain how that is not more extreem with what i wrote.

    in reply to: The Five Most Likeliest Candidates to be Moshiach #2212451
    sechel83
    Participant

    @no mesorah. see tanya אגרת הקדשׁ כו
    dont know how to figured that, see קונטרס ענינה של תורת החסידות
    (if chassidus is musar of kabala, i might agree with you, but i learned more than a few pages and realized it has nothing to do with either)

    in reply to: questions about the yeshivish world #2212446
    sechel83
    Participant

    @nomesorah there are many poskim who said its the same as a razor, see orchas yosher from reb chaim kanievski he brings the chazon ish, the steipler and rav shach, so apparently its not so simple
    @avira, i learned many teshuvos of reb moshe and other poskim, i also learned most of shas btw, and have many chabad freinds who learned shas, (not just tanya like some think)

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2212443
    sechel83
    Participant

    @emunas did you even learn exactly what the rebbe said or you just saw it in the dumb book of kefira written by a sonei yisroel?
    dumb questions, but im still waiting for a source about theses debates with Christians.
    and if you have one, well there are many more reasons why yashke cant be moshiach, and you will still need to answer the gemarah, but first lets start with the source,
    2) we find in gemarah many times when goyim asked yidden questions and they just gave them an answer to push them away, its not a source, see i.e sanhedrin beginning of perek chelek, meseches tamid

    in reply to: The Five Most Likeliest Candidates to be Moshiach #2212353
    sechel83
    Participant

    there is actually a story that one of the rebbes said moshiach with be a misnaged because if he is a chosid, the misnagdim wont follow him.
    i would definatlly accept the biggest misnaged as moshiach as long as he does what the rambam says moshiach will do. my point is only that al pi chassidus there is a deeper meaning in moshiach, and gemarah and lamdus dosent have anything to do with it, so if hashem desides obviously he can send who he chooses to be moshiach and teach chassidus (see keser shem tov siman 1, and many other places)

    in reply to: questions about the yeshivish world #2212352
    sechel83
    Participant

    1) whats the sourse of reb moshe’s heter? word of mouth? then check igros moshe orech chaim (אגרות משה – חלק ו (או”ח ח”ד siman 9 (letter to the lubavitcher rebbe btw) where he brings a gemara that you cant just pass down a heter without knowing the reason, so you need more than that.
    mesorah? all depends what you consider mesorah. the baal shem tov thought to focus on certain things that were always around, you can also consider the vilosin yeshiva a change of mesorah, or the idea of kolel. or the brisker derech halimud. my point is not to question these ideas, my point is that apparently different people have different definitions of mesorah.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2212348
    sechel83
    Participant

    @coffee addict: to answer your question, i believe the rebbe was a tzadik gamur like the tanya explains and i beleive moshiach will be a tzadik gamur. see derech mitzvosecha mitzvas מינוי מלך. i dont know what you mean by perfect.
    @emunas 1: can you please explain what makes such a beleif wrong? does it controdict one of the 13 ikrim and why? (or is it just an argument in pshat of a gemara)

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2211548
    sechel83
    Participant

    @qwerty613
    i realized recently that litvaks and others too look ar judaism as groups. everyone of each group needs to do the same thing in your opinion, and if you see soome random lubavitcher do something obviously he speaks for the whole lubavitch.
    so ill educate you: if you want to know chabad beleifs – learn chabad seforim from the lubavitcher rebbe’s. to know chabad minhagim: – shulchan aruch of the alter rebbe, sh”ut tzemach tzedek, sefer haminhagim chabad. sharai halacha uminhag, shulchan menachem. (main sources of things we may do different than others)
    anything else – not from one of the chabad rebbes – doesn’t talk for the whole chabad. and we should judge everyone lkaf schus even if we think he is doing something wrong or has a wrong beleif, and we should look at ourselves maybe we have the same issue, and fix ourselves. (so says the baal shem tov) and especially if i dont even know the halachos of the thing im judging him for, if i just have my mesorah, well maybe he has a different mesorah.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2210661
    sechel83
    Participant

    i love how people give opinions about the what is ok about gedolim and what they did thats not ok, so basically these people think they know better than the gadol.
    my opinion is i have my rebbe, and i accept him 100%.

    in reply to: The Five Most Likeliest Candidates to be Moshiach #2210362
    sechel83
    Participant

    my point is that people think that a big gadol who knows alot of lamdus is likely to be moshiach, well
    the rambam says that only halachos of torah will be forever, (not shaklah vitarya, (questions come from a concealment on g-dliness, and kelipa, when moshiach comes, there will be no more kelipa, or concealments on g-dliness))
    my point it that some people dont begin to understand what moshiach is!

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2210359
    sechel83
    Participant

    @avaira. i agree its offensive, but its true. thats the fact, that what tanya calls a tzadik its much greater than a litvak can imagine. and in chabad we spend at least a few hours a day learning about gadlus hashem.
    btw the ramban holds there will be everlasting psychical life after techiyas hamasim, chassidus explains this idea in depth, at length.

    in reply to: The final word on Moshiach from the meisim (hopefully!) #2210002
    sechel83
    Participant

    anyone who says that moshiach can not come from tthe dead, is a kofer in torah. (he’s arguing with a clear gemarah)

    in reply to: The Five Most Likeliest Candidates to be Moshiach #2210001
    sechel83
    Participant

    @damoshe, my point is to make you think, if you have complaints about how moshiach can come from the dead, i ask back this question, time for these antagonist to open a gemarah sanhedrin, rambam hilchos melachim, hilchos teshuvah, etc. (and learn the rebbe’s sichos on moshiach, because simply he the only one who learned and spoke about these sugyos so much, check out the sefer dvar malchus)

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2210000
    sechel83
    Participant

    my thoughts on some misnagdim who say some chabad says any g-dly terms about the rebbe.
    apparently in chabad we have a much greater definition on what is a tzadik, and our understanding (the little we can) and beleif about hashem is also much greater.
    so when a chabad says the rebbe lives forever, some litvaks claim “how can you say such a thing? only g-d is forever” (once i heard a misnagdishe rov speak about chabad for saying leolam voed about a person, apperently he dosent know tehillim – 22, suckah perek lulavv vaaravah)
    and many claims like this, its the same idea.

    in reply to: The Five Most Likeliest Candidates to be Moshiach #2209741
    sechel83
    Participant

    @someday: my point was to make you think, its a simple answer once you understand the sugya – likutai sichos vol 27 bichukosai. rav yerucham, mamash amazing chizuk vort but docent answer the question.

    @american
    yeshivish kabala and chassidus are not the same. toras moshiach is not kabala its chassidus. you can argue if you want, im just pointing out what shitas hachassidus is. (and musar has nothing to do with chassidus, furthest thing from it)

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2209738
    sechel83
    Participant

    כל המיצר לישראל נעשה ראש גיטין נו
    similar can be said about chabad, whoever stands up against chabad becomes a gadol, whoever becomes chabad – like r ezra shochat, r’ yosef avraham heller, r shlome zelig feldman all top bochurim of brisk, but when they became chabad, for some reason the litvaks dont care about their gadlus anymore.

    in reply to: Question of an ignorant, closed-minded Lubavitcher #2209392
    sechel83
    Participant

    “but in the opinion of most of the Gedolim in Klal Yisroel, it absolutely happens and Chabad does nothing to discourage it” – i guess its a machlokes (bimtzius) of the gedolim whether it happens or not, some litvish gedolim think it happens, chabad and chassidish gedolim hold it dosent happen, and that answers simply why they dont do anything about it (the thing that dosent happen).

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