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“Isn’t everyone entitled to freedom of speech???”
Yes.
Everyone.
Including those who think the sign was offensive.why do you ask?
“you will never understand why he does anything, and continue to make yourselves miserable with his actions.”
Lol. Trump is the easiest understood President. Nobody has trouble understanding him.
I do have a little trouble understanding some of his supporters.Joseph
Yes but (almost?) nobody supports returning to the UN resolution. As you are probably aware all parties have acknowledged in one way or other that any future peace deal would be based on the 67′ borders and not the partition plan. This includes all US Presidents in the past decades as well as the Israelis and Palestinians. The Palestinians do not think they will get control over West Jerusalem. Unless Trump says something about East Jerusalem or an “undivided” Jerusalem. this is a purely symbolic move that doesn’t really change much
“Trump isnt easliy manipulated as you may think. ”
He is.
“He has the final say no matter what his daughter thinks”
Obviously. I never said otherwise
“. How long did it take him to denounce david duke or any other anti semitic tweets or the likes? Much longer than it should have.”
Exactly. Although he didn’t want to. He did
” When he decides on something he does it”
Yep like the wall
.
” Because he will be breaking with U.S tradition of not recognizing Jerusalem as Israels capitol for many years, it is a VERY historic move”
Congress recognized it in 95. Every president since has promised to move the embassy. It his historic that he is keeping his promise (though later than he saud).
The actual announcement is fluff. There was no way israel would abandon yerushalyim before and the us still won’t recognise soverigty over the entire city. Nothing of substance is changing.-How will he announce that if he is recognizing Jerusalem as Israels “UNDIVIDED” capitol?”
He won’t say undivided. (Where did yiu get that from?) If he does that in fact would be hostoric.
“And regarding status quo, Muslim world said this is a red line so either way it is a big move.”
Just because Muslims or anyone says something doesn’t make it so“Just wondering why does Trump feel so personally involved in standing up for Israel and recognizing Jerusalem?”
He is probably being pushed to do so by some of his close advisors either JEwish ones (Kushner Greenblatt) or those with close ties to Evangelicals (Pence) IT is a relativly easy win on a cmapaign promise when he has broken so many including his big one (the wall)
“After all lwhag is his connection?”
See above“And don’t tell me his daughter and son in law since especially Trump always does only what “he” wants at the end.”
Trump is the easiest to maniupulate. Tell him ho w much he will be loved and he’ll do it“But even if that were the case these are big moves even if he has Jewish family members. ”
I’m not sure hwy it is so big.
“Does he relaly like Israel that much”
Proabbaly not
” or dislike the muslim world that much?”
Partly, though that is minor compared to above.“Is this seen in the eyes of the muslim world as a reconquering so to speak of Israel?”
I doubt it though it will be seen as messing with the “status quo”Since it will be known that Jerusalem only belongs to Israel and the Jewish people?”
Im not sure why you think that. In fact he very well might mention that East Jerusalem will one day belong to the Palestinians.“Can this cause a war?”
doubtful. Though it certainly will cause an increase in violence“Can this cause issues in the United States from muslims?”
sure it can, but doubtful.“1. you protested what you consider to be an attempt to destroy Jewish Creole German so obviously you want to preserve it.”
The logic there is flawed. I dont think an attempt to destroy a language (any language) is a good thing. that does not mean I necessarily think efforts to preserve it are noble. There is room for middle ground.“2. Rabaul Creole German a.k.a. Unserdeutsch (“Our German”) is a German-based creole language that originated in Papua New Guinea. It was formed among the New Guinean children residing in a German-run orphanage in what was then German New Guinea. About 100 native speakers survive today, most of whom migrated to Australia after Papua New Guinea’s independence in 1975. (Wikipedia)”
Fascinating. Sure let them preserve it. Why not?
“3. I ask out of curiosity.”
Sure.“4. I was comparing spending time and effort on learning Jewish Creole German (a.k.a. Jargon) and Standard German.”
how much time and effort do you think it takes when a person is born and raised in said community?
“5. Yes I do put thought into my comments”.
Eh. try harder. For example your point #1 isnt logically sound as demonstrated above.“Do you?”
I try. Though I could work at better proofreading my comments“Ubitquin, why is it a noble effort to maintain Jewish Creole German? ”
I never said it is. Or is this a riddle?
If so: OK why?“Should Rabaul Creole German also be maintained? ”
I’m not familiar with this language, I do not have an opinion. Should it?“It is totally useless except to historians and anthropologists.”
So why do you ask?” It would be far better to learn Hochdeutsch considering the economic power of German-speaking countries”
I don’t understand the logic here. Is there any? Deciding what language to learn is only based on its economic power?
Do you put thought into your comments, that is one of the strangest assertions I’ve seen I guess you are opposed to learning Spanish? Or for that matter Hebrew ”considering the economic power of German speaking countries ”“As part of my regular halacha shiur, I will, when we get there.”
Thats is what I said
“Suggestions/questions about a Rav are never misplaced.”
that is where we disagree. It is misplaced when it is used to shut down a discussion. Not necessarily on this thread but this is often a kneejerk response to shut down halachic discussions.
I grant that was likely not your intent. And while I quoted you I didnt mean my response to be a direct criticism of your comment per se, I shouldbe have been clearer Im sorry.Ftresi
“This seems to be saying ModOx is bad, but not quite as bad as frei.”Nope. ITs saying that for a chassid to abandon his roots, being modox is not as bad as becoming frei.
If you are looking for someone to say it is GOOD when Chassidim abandon their roots and become modox. Yes then SG wouldnt agree. He is saying it is bad. but not as bad as frei.ZD
“The Reason Footsteps might be more successful than Project Makom…”Yep that is the main reason, as explained on the other thread
AWOB
“Obviously, Mod, we’re interpreting some of the comments different”
you are likely misinterpreting .If any comment in particular bothers you. Quote it and Im sure someone would be happy to explain
for example:
ftresei
“but my read of SadiguraRebbe’s post was a comparison of MO to frei, AKA not frum”
You read wrong. In fact he says the exact opposite “… modox. which is not as bad as frei.”AWOB
” If a Hassidish man or woman has suffered in their own community, shouldn’t they be welcome in another?”
Of course they should! Though that isnt a criticism of anyone here. That is a critiscm of (some) modern orthodox communities among whom some ex- Chassisim sometimes feel like outsiders given they usually lack higehr education, they may speak English with a an accent, they oftne never grew up immersed in general pop culture so they oftne feel left out. Obviously this isnt solved by abandoning Yidishkeit comepltly but iit isnt like joining a modox community automatically allows them to be complelty ingrained. You my or may not be familiar with the term “tuna beigel” but I assure you it isnt a term goyim are familiar with
Though this is a more minor reason why Footsteps is more successful than Project Makom. The main reasons are outlined on the other threadAPY
“If you knew the members of the minyan, it wouldnt matter what halachos I know or dont know.”
forget them, learn it for yourself.
Thank you for highlighting precisely why questions about the Rav and suggestions to just ask a Rav are often misplaced.
These are halachos like any other, I for one have learnt from DY’s and iacrisma’s sources (thank yo u both for prviding them and thanks to the OP for prompting this discussion) .
These arent commonly learnt halachos and as I am not a gabbai, I have never faced these questions before. But we can all learn from interesting discussions.
I dont mean this a as critiscm of you per se. There is much Torah, and if this doesnt interest you and it doesnt come up, there is much else to learn.
Its the general knee jerk reaction to almost any halachic discussion that it isnt worth having since “just ask a Rav” that rubs me the wrong wayGaon
“I always used to say I don’t understand many of these Otd who come from hassidim and very ultra, when they claim the left because of the lack of openness, education, freedom etc. What is the need to throw everything away”
You can now understand.read my comments in the original thread DovidBT linked to above
Effie
“Gittel frum Feige etc are German names period.”
Not quite they are Yiddish“My father’s family Yemenite Jews used only hebrew names from the Tanach”
Mazel tov.” with no diminutives needed and as chazal forbade such diminutives ”
chazal forbade no such thing. And in fact we find nicknames among Chazal:Abba Aruka for example, R’ Yochanaon Hasandler., R’ Akiva is refereed to as “koreach”. Admittedly these arent diminutives but they certainly are nicknames. It is hard to see how diminutives are worse than the above.” the Yemenites do not give diminutives. There are plenty of Hebrew names for females there is no need for excuses for german names its just an excuse for assimilation that has no justification.”
Yes naming people gittel is a key to assimilation.
“Why are Ashkenazim so opposed to abandoning a language or even roots of such language that comes from a people who had very nearly destroyed them”
you do realize the biggest demise of Yiddish occurred through the Germans. I fail to see how assuring that said language is in fact completely destroyed is in any way a noble effort“When the question comes up in shul?”
Nope
When this was brought up in the CR a week later
Reread the OP“Does this shul have a Rov?” “Where was the Rav?”
He was calling the halacha hotline with a pikuach nefesh question that he didnt know how to answer.
Thus both of them werent availabe leaving only the Gedolei haposkim in the Coffee roomIs there some rule that requires someone to say ask your Rav with EVERY halachic question?
Yes we know. always ask your Rav first. (Maybe that could be a sticky)
That isnt a reason not to discuss an interesting question and be exposed to interesting relevent sources.“Which gedolei poskim today answer pikuach nefesh shailos,”
This is the CR
We all do!TLIK
Your inquiry is TOO simple. Some aspects of Pikuach nefesh absolutely are a specialty area.
Obviously there are general rules of thumb that every posek should be familiar with but without question many specific questions involve details that many Rabbonim are not familiar with.Take something as routine as CPR vs a DNR. I have asked 7 different Rabbonim who have given piskei halacha on this issue. Only one was accurately able to describe CPR, its sequale, odds of success, etc.
That isnt to say this is entirly thee fault of Rabbonim
There are several reasons for this. some of the fault lies with the medical profession who are often quite reluctant to discuss details with Rabbonim, some lies due to the high stress of the situation critical information is nt given over may change the psak one way or the other“A seudas mitzvah should be fleishigs.”
I was not aware a sheva berachos was a seudas mitzvah. Is it?
litvisher
you say religion or not.
You ave already demonstrated that you dont know much about thanksiving, you are comin g dan gerously close to showin g tat you dont know muc about halacha either.
See Rema in YD hilchos chukas akum, religion or not. is what determines if it is assur or not“So you would argue that goyim named Sidney, Seymour, Morris or Debbie have a Jewish name?”
Either yes they have Jewish names.
Or they takeh don’t have Jewish names but they are a minority and whether a name is “jewish” or not is determined by the majority.Ketzas rayah to my lishna Kaman is Esther is obviously an inherentmy Jewish name. Aye there are goyim named esther (It’s a popikar carribean name) lechoyra those goyim have s Jewish name.
Also the minhag is to discuss this every year.
So yasher koach for keeping minhagim alive“Isn’t the Chanukah minhag to give “Gelt” not presents?”
shava kesef kekesef
“Does anything account for this being more common with girls than boys?”
A few factors do
Morrris often gets aliyas, he probably has a tallis bag he uses daily with his name Moshe. He might introduce himself to visiting Rabbonim etc where he might feel more comfortable using Moshe. IT isnt surprising that with time Morris shifts to Moshe
His wife Debbie on the other hand other than on her kesuba which she has tucked away somewhere likely never uses her name Devora. So it isnt at all surprising that they are now Moshe and Debbie instead of Morris and Debbie.I would argue though that names like Gittel, Glickel, Fruma, Tziril, Faigie, Liba and even Sidney, Seymour, Morris, Debbie while not Hebrew names are all Jewish names
LU
“First of all, I find sighing to be rather arrogant and rude.”
I find your comments to be arrogant and rude. You often misinterpret posts and when this is pointed out to you instead of saying, “sorry I misunderstood” you move the goal posts and reinterpret what you said, what you were replying to etc. This thread is yet another example.
You say you defined “average” differently. In several of my orginal comments I defined it as “typical” in another . In my very first comment I said “ie excluding newcomers and excluding those who may be exceptionally learned” We werent talking about “an average of frum families” rather about “the Average family”“And honestly, it’s a bit ridiculous and rude to put so much emphasis on defining “average Frum family” a particular way. ”
Nu nu Terms need to be defined in order to discuss them. I dont think it is rude, though it may be ridiculous since as I mentioned several times there is a lot of variability“I also am not sure that it made sense for you to marginalize “newcomers””
I dont think saying they have more questions than the typical family is “marginalizing”
“I am not sure if you meant people who became Frum less than a year or two ago, or if you were referring to all baalei teshuvas, but there are so many baalei teshuvas that I’m not sure if it makes sense to put them in a separate category,”
Arent yo uputting them in a separate category too you differentiate between “BT’s” and “FFB’s” So for your purposes of distinction its fine, but not mine got it. Similar to when I sigh it is “rude and arrogant” but when you do it it is “proving a point”“As I think was already pointed out, the whole idea of talking about an “average Frum family” makes no sense”
Thats fine. So say “I cant reply to the original question as it makes no sense, but if we look at all Jewish families some will have questions every day” dotn redefine terms and continue the conversation without telling anybody. Especialy it was pointe out several times that we arent talking about exceptional cases. for you to now say “Oh I ignored that caveat and just interpreted it the way I wanted to ” (not a verbatim quote) is a bit ridiculous and rude.”
“Again, I’m talking about the questions people should be asking, as I’ve explained many, many times already.”
Lol!
You said that in response to my comment. here it is again:Ubiquitin : ““The discussion is about “typical frum homes” I grant there are some who cannot read a Mishne Berura but It is fair to say the “Typical” product of a yeshiva system can.” [Note the discussion Im reffering to and the words I am quoting are Joseph’s second question]
to which you replied “… So what happens if the same person is convinced that he knows what the MB is saying, and in fact, he doesn’t?”
Certainly you can understand why I thought this was in reference to the topic I was discussing (and quoting) and not something else
LU
“You are allowed to write about something that is not the exact same as the original question as long as you make it clear that you are doing so.”Of course. Though you have to keep the discussions straight otherwise yo u confuse yourself
Again the question was: “How often does an average frum family consult with their Rov for a shaila or other advice”
I gave an answer ranging 4-24.
you said “That seems to me like a very low estimate. …I think that the range amongst people I know is more like once every week to at least once a day.”In an effort to give examples of the above you mentioned all of the following :
– Situations that are not the ” average frum family”
– Situations were people dont realize they SHOULD ask a question
– rare situations that dont come up regularlyOf course all of those are fine topics for discussion but none of them relate to (with the possible exception of rare questions), “How often does an average frum family consult with their Rov for a shaila or other advice” yet all were in responses addressed to me.
Now if you want to start a NEW discussion within this thread like
How often does a aingle/divorced/widowed woman consult with their Rov for a shaila or other advice
or
How often does an average frum family NOT consult with their Rov for a shaila or other advice when they should be doing so.By all means discuss.
I just missed the part where you made it clear that you were no longer discussing the original question.
My apolagies for missing it.“There are a lot of single, divorced, and widowed women. If you also add…”
sigh the question was about (and I quote ) “…an average frum family…”
“I have often noticed posters in the CR thinking that someone wrote something that they didn’t write”
Lol, yes we all have 😉“So what happens if the same person is convinced that he knows what the MB is saying, and in fact, he doesn’t”
Im confused. then he DEFINITELY wont be asking his Rav a question. that is’ the guy you are arguing, asks questions?“From my experience, sheilahs that can’t be answered in the MB come up at least once or twice a week.”
Ok I get it. Though that hasnt been my experience, (and your examples arent compelling) and I do not think that is the experience of the “average frum family” but admittedly, perhaps there is no such thing.
I ma curious about your thoughts on SLonimer’s pointLU
“but rather, to sheilahs that should have been asked, whether or not they were”Though that isnt really the topic we were discussing.
Again the question was “How often does an average frum family consult with their Rov for a shaila or other advice”
Though as I said, I concede perhaps GH is correct, as there may be too many variables for the question to have any meaning
beninguanman
Im not saying “yaakov lo mes” isnt true. ch”v I am saying that it isnt literal. You agree
“But under both understandings, Yakov Avinu appeared dead to everyone around him. His body was indistinguishable from a dead body ”
Yep in a literal sense he died i.e no matter how closely you listen at maaros hamachpeila you wont hear him screaming out for air or food.
Of course in a very real (albeit not literal) sense he never died.The opposite of literal isnt false.
The example I give is when I say during public speaking ” I have “Butterflies in my stomach” it is 100% true, I really am nervous. however it isnt literal meaning I dont actually have insects floating around in my belly.For real understanding of chabad messianism
see “What Really Happens When Prophecy Fails: The Case of Lubavitch.” by Simon Dein (available online)With a name like Avram I assume you are male thus you have no right to make any comment regarding tzniyus! (unless you are anti-tzniyus then its fine)
and given that you are in MD you have similarly no right to have an opinion regarding zionism
How dare you bring up any of those things
(just trying to get the ball rolling…)
Moshiach hat
“The Rebbe has a whole sicha about how it is literal and that Rashi and Tosofos agree that it’s literal. Maybe read the sicha before u categorically deny such a thing.”Just so I understand you beleive Yaakov Avinu is 3571 years old breathing, eating drinking, using the facilities etc etc. All while buried in maaros hamachpela?
Or is the passuk “וַיִּקְבְּר֣וּ אֹת֔וֹ בִּמְעָרַ֖ת שְׂדֵ֣ה הַמַּכְפֵּלָ֑ה” not literal?
TLIK
“to clarify the subject question of this thread.”How does that relate to the question of this thread which is “How often does an average frum family consult with their Rov for a shaila or other advice?”
Even the original question “Are there many frum people who don’t have a set Rov and/or Posek who is the final ruling authority for themselves and their entire family?” Is only tangentially related, as the question wasnt “SHOULD they have” but “do they have ” (actually dont have).
“Yaakov avinu lo mes IS literal.”
Its not. (unless you dont know what literal means or what mes means)
teh passuk says ” וַיִּקְבְּר֣וּ אֹת֔וֹ בִּמְעָרַ֖ת שְׂדֵ֣ה הַמַּכְפֵּלָ֑ה” Either he had died before that or afterwards, either way though Yaakov Avinu literally died.
Now figuratively, that is another story, certainly in a manner of speaking (ie figuratively) he still lives, as chazal say “Yaakov avinu lo mesAPY
now THATs a Sheila. thanks for sharing
(In contrast to questions about what beracha to make on Kif kaf, or whether to wash netilas yedayim by the bed. Though of course if anyone has that sheila dont hesitate to ask)
“why take money for Torah, from an institution whose goal is to uproot Torah”
interesting
LU
Look I amdit I made up my number if it is wrong I wont lose any sleep.The entire question is a bit vague “typical frum home” is hard to define. how learned are they? How confident are they? How clumsy are they? (obviously the family that often splashes milk all over the place while the chicken sou is already up will have more shailas than the family that doesnt.)
you say “that people have sheilahs approximately twice a week” ok so I guess we run in different circles, as I odnt see how that is possible.
A few quick points though
“Most women have never learned Mishna Berura. ”
True, but Joseph’s comment was about the typical frum household, which usually isnt just women.“I suspect that there are many men who also do not know how to look things up in the Mishna Berurah. I also suspect that there are many men who think that they know how to look things up in the Mishna Berurah, but do not (or make mistakes more often than they should).”
The discussion is about “typical frum homes” I grant there are some who cannot read a Mishne Berura but It is fair to say the “Typical” product of a yeshiva system can.
“Furthermore, not all sheilahs (even the daily/weekly type) can be answered by looking it up in the Mishna Berurah. ”
By far most can. the only ones you may have trouble with are technological questions (and of course non-OC questions) I concede there wil l still be a few shailas as I said. note I ever said no questions arise.
” did, and I still do. Prove to me otherwise.”
Im certain you are kidding, but in case you think it is hard to prove. The easiest way is go to aa lab have your blood drawn with a vacutainer (a standard blood vial) . By definition there is no oxygen in the tube the blood appears in the tube exactly as in your body it is not blue.
If yo want to get even fancier have them send off simultaneous arterial and venous blood gasses. thsi measures the amount of oxygen in the blood. you wil lsee quite clearly that while the venous blood is deoxygenated compared to areterial blood. It is not blue, though the shade of red may vary between the two
I liek health, though wonder if anyone really thinks or thought blood is blue or is this one of those “myths” that people l;ike disproving but nobody actually believes
“The Rebbe did not have any children and therefore, there was no one to fill his place as Nosi Hador. ”
That logic doesnt follow. Moshe Rabbeinu’s children didnt succeeed him neither did Yehoshua’s Nor Osniel, nor Ehud ben geria etc etc. The leader of a Dor doesnt have to be the son of the previous leader.
“. It is stated in Rambam somewhere ”
where?
“– I’m not sure exactly where, but you could ask anyone”
Ok Im asking you
” – that it is the obligation of every Jew to fervently believe that their teacher is Moshiach.”good luck finding it, dont look too hard there is no such Rambam.
Being that the Rebbe is our teacher we believe that he is Moshiach even though he past away 23 years ago.
“Maybe I will post some miraculous stories below later”
dont bother there are stories about Mother Teresa too. That doesnt make her Moshiach.“Therefore, discussions whether he passed away or not, are not for us to talk about because really, we don’t know. ”
Um we do. there were thousands at his levaye.“The Rebbe was a holy person”
Agreed so stop degrading him with ridiculous claims.“I hope I have helped you guys to gain some clarity ”
Ok that you did.
You conclusivly demontarted that, at least for some meshichists, the entire idea is built on an illogical premise (namely if a leader has no sons he remains leader forever) and a fake source (the made up Ramabam that every teacher is msohiach)Joseph
“The internet is more reliable than Encyclopedia Brittanica?”It depends what you mean by “the interet”
As you may know the internet is “a global computer network providing a variety of information and communication facilities, consisting of interconnected networks using standardized communication protocols.” it isnt in of itself reliable or unreliable.
You ask if the internt is more relaibale than Encyclopedia Brittanica? Well EB is on the internet. so your question is if Encyclopedia Britannica + PBS online + history channel + a variety of Historical societies + variety of historical journals are all together more reliable than Encyclopedia Britannica alone. And obviously the answer is of course.
“Is that how y’all been unaware of the religious background of Thanksgiving?”
Yep nobody besides Rabbi Miller and slonimer has had access to EB. surprisingly even EB doesnt have access to what they say in the print version“As to the other answer, it’s a long one and involves explaining a concept which frankly would bore you as you write. So I don’t see a reason to write it up.”
Nu nu. I’ll live
thanks anywayWho knows maybe If I daven to the Rebbe he will give me the daas to understand
It’s silly to think differences among groups dont exist. That isnt to say that every, say, satmerer is the same or that they all follow every carecteristic of the group. Butit is equally foolish to say that in spite of them having a certain shitah, living together, haing their own school system etc… There is nothing that combines them together as a group. Of course there is. For example. As a group Satmar opposes the Zionism, that does not mean that EVERY Satmerer feels that way. But if you meet a Satmerer Chasid it isnt “groupist” to assume he didnt say Hallel On Yom Haatzmaot.
Admitedly there is a fine line between the above and being anti said group. But there is a line
Slonimer
“ubiquitous – Please reread my comment”
Please reread mine. I dont have access to EB print SO I dont know one way or another what it says.
I do have access to the online version which does provide a detailed history and does not leave room for a Greco-Roman origin, (Im not sure why you are waffling on what EB says Why “necessarily” in parenthesis?) nor does it provide a religious significance (other than generic thanking God).Now If as you say online EB is an abridgment of the print version the it says nothing that you claim it does. IF it is entirely different. Again as it very well may be then I simply do not know.
I do know that there is no online source that I cna dig up, so even if their is one print source from 20 yers ago with some other history of thanksgiving. Thsi would explain where Rabbi Miller got his mistaken history from, but that wouldn’t make it correct.Yes more than once
Including when Joseph stated an opinion I previously held convincing me that I must be mistaken.Although worht noting the distinction between “weren’t too opinionated about”. and were I ” had a real shita” isnt as obust as you may like.
Slonimer
Again I dont ahve access to the print version. however what you describe isnt a longer version of wht Iquoted from Encyclopedia Britanica you “The free online edition of EB, I believe, is abridged” it is an entirely differnet version.
The “abridged” version is quite detailed and doesnt leave room for any Greco-Roman version of ThanksgivingSlonimer, im not sure if it was addressed to me.
“If he used Encyclopedia Brittanica”
who is he?“he correctly related what it says”
Unless the “he” is me you are mistaken.I do not have a print copy.
The online version states
“…The New England colonists were accustomed to regularly celebrating “Thanksgivings,” days of prayer thanking God for blessings such as military victory or the end of a drought. The U.S. Continental Congress proclaimed a national Thanksgiving upon the enactment of the Constitution, for example. …Thanksgiving Day did not become an official holiday until Northerners dominated the federal government. …won the support of President Abraham Lincoln. On October 3, 1863, during the Civil War, Lincoln proclaimed a national day of thanksgiving to be celebrated on Thursday, November 26. The holiday was annually proclaimed by every president thereafter, and the date chosen, with few exceptions, was the last Thursday in November. President Franklin D. Roosevelt, however, attempted to extend the Christmas shopping season, which generally begins with the Thanksgiving holiday, and to boost the economy by moving the date back a week, to the third week in November. But not all states complied, and, after a joint resolution of Congress in 1941, Roosevelt issued a proclamation in 1942 designating the fourth Thursday in November (which is not always the last Thursday) as Thanksgiving Day.”
(shortened for brevity)“Do you dispute the EB?”
Me? No it says exactly what I said.
Litvisherchossid
Wait, why is that opening “against” him?I assume you have some encyclopedia that has an alternate history of Thanksgiving, And Rabbi Miller must have had the same encyclopedia.
Unless of course you have no such encyclopedia….
Hi Chabadshlucha I havent read through this entire thread since frankly I find it boring.
The meshichist thing is weird and silly but Im not sure its kefira necceserily.What I do find strange and closer to kefira (if not over the line), is the following. I have a bencher from a Lubavitcher’s bar mitzvah. In the back are a bunch of “nigunei Chabad” including English ones.
Some of the lyrics to the English songs are quite strange to say the least.Here is but one example a song entitled “Oh Rebbe”:
With a Tehillim, he sat through the night
Pondering deeply into his plight
The Rebbe’s image in front of his eyes
Oh, where is Moshiach he sighsThree times a day, we would have the great z’chus
The Nossi Hador would come daven with us
How can I live when a Shabbos goes by
Without a Farbrengen he criesOh Rebbe, oh Rebbe, we need you
Hashem, hashem, kel rachum
We’re sick of this galus, can’t bear any more
Why can’t you open the doorYour children are yearning to be with you
How long can this galus continue
Bring the geulah, fulfilling your vow
To bring moshiach right now”The song is clearly addresed to the (dead) Rebbe asking him to “Bring the geulah” I was under the impression that Hashem wasin charge of that?
It also sounds like the song is reffering to the Rebbe as “Hashem, hashem, kel rachum” R”L which would answer the above question. but raises more serious ones.
Then there is the more minor aspect of not thinkin living to keep Shabbos is worth lviing for if the you can tgo to a Farbrengenthanks for any explanation you can provide
Rabbi Miller must have the same encyclopedia as Litvisherchossid
“Also I’m not here to write a book about Thanksgiving origins I just wrote briefly so.”
Yes obviously
” no I did not mean lincoln. ”
Thats a pity, since if you meant Lincoln at least there would be one sort of correct statement in your post.It was Lincoln, not Kennedy who in 1863 not 1963 established a national holiday of thanksgiving. (The date was later changed by FDR) Neither Lincoln nor Kennedy “instituted it” after it was “forgotten” Many states had celebrated it for decades before Lincoln proclaimed it a national holiday. New York did so in 1817.
You’re facts are simply wrong, it is very hard to research facts that you made up.“but dont we do that every Shabbos? ”
Some of of have family that dont live walking distance, and some of us have family who dont drive on shabbos. So no we dont all get together every shabbos
Also your history lesson leaves a bit to be desired. Especially the bit about Kennedy coming back from the dead almost a week after his Nov 22 1963 assassination to celebrate Thanksgiving on November 28 1963.
(you probably meant Lincoln in 1863