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Wikipedia is unreliable, especially on Jewish issues.
SR: Weissman got married very late and was bitter about that. He started penning these anti-shidduch screeds while still an older single. His advocating that the traditional Orthodox community adopt his failed Modern Orthodox style of hookup culture dating is a joke.
The topic of multiple spouses comes up on average less than once a year in this forum. I didn’t raise it in this thread, I responded to it being raised. Despite its great infrequency, the few times it has come up has caused great conniptions, tantrums and hissie fits by the same few posters who simply cannot even tolerate a discussion on a legitimate issue that they disagree with. The only obsession is on the part of those who violently disagree with dialog on this.
Having multiple wives is similar to eating knitiyos on Pesach. Yet these posters who get bent out of shape over any discussion regarding polygamy, have no issues when a poster discusses knitiyos on Pesach. Both are issues where Ashkenazim and non-Ashkenazim have different customs. Indeed, the kitniyos ban is even more severe than the polygamy ban. Whereas Gedolei Ashkenaz today can once again permit polygamy, as Rabbeinu Gershom anticipated and built in an expiration to it and instituted it in a repealable mechanism, they cannot permit kitniyos.
A woman’s place is at home; not in political office.
Baruch Hashem… Dorah and Dofi have both accepted the name that I baptized them with.
SR:1) A State with nuclear arms can get nuked just as much as a state without nuclear arms. 2) Brooklyn is part of a State with more nuclear arms than the State that includes Eilat (which is also part of Chutz L’aretz, unlike southern Lebanon which is part of Eretz Yisroel.)
My parenthetical sentence had a typo. It should have read:
Though, we may have to execute his parent(s), depending on the circumstances.
right writer: mamzeirim are a bad thing; I’m sure you agree with that. So what should we do with a mamzer? We do not kill a mamzer. (Though, we may have to him his parent(s), depending on the circumstances.)
The State is a mamzer.
Do you say that the Holocaust was a good thing since Hashem let it happen?
Rome, which destroyed Yerushalayim and slaughtered the Yidden, was around for a lot longer than the State of Israel.
Anyone would be best served by doing the opposite of any suggestions by Mr. Weissman. The folly of his “ideas” is consistent and long-standing.
Gedolei Yisroel have associated particular tragedies to particular bad behaviors for thousands of years. From time immemorial until today and all years in between.
For example, the Tosfos Yom Tov let Klal Yisroel know that Tach V’Tat occurred because of talking in Shul. Other Gedolim told us the reasons why they Holocaust happened. Chazal in the Gemorah told us that Beis Hamikdash was destroyed because the women dressed pritzusdik, because of sinas chinam and give a few other reasons. So there can be more than one reason as well.
Wikipedia is a far-left breeding ground. If you edit an article outside conformity with left-wing ideology, your edit will be deleted very quickly. If you persist with non-leftist edits, you will be banned from editing.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Another interesting thought is that throughout most of history, when polygamy was practiced, the financial implications of multiple wives made it impractical for most, since the general household arrangement throughout history was the husband worked and the wives were at home. Nowadays, when polygamy is mostly phased out, for the last few decades with most wives working, the financial implications of having multiple wives have essentially reversed, and a family with multiple working wives could do better financially and have more income and earnings potential than a family with only one wife.
It’s interesting (buckle your seatbelts, since I know some of you are going to get conniptions and start posting a flurry of angry replies), since with the shidduch crisis being mainly an issue of not enough single men and too many single women, ending the Cherem may be a viable solution.
We have a few of them posting in the CR.
Avira, regarding the commonness of having multiple wives you wrote that it was rare to have many wives. That’s a mathematically obvious point (and therefore needn’t even be said). If it weren’t rare to have many wives (IOW, if it was common for people to have many wives), then obviously it would mathematically be necessary for many men to remain unmarried (since many other men had many wives, leaving an insufficient supply for all.)
So its lack of commonness was never a reason for the practice to not exist; otherwise the permissibility of multiple wives would never have existed. Therefore, even with (and when) having multiple wives was permitted and accepted, it obviously was only (mathematically) viable for a select minority. And in order for any individual person to have multiple wives, he would need to have the financial and emotional wherewithal to support them. Most do not have that. But that isn’t, in of itself, a reason to disallow the practice.
Rabbeinu Gershom, at his time in history, decided that for the Ashkenazic community it was causing more downsides than upsides, enough to outlaw it at the time. But even he put an expiration date on his ban since he acknowledged it wasn’t, in of itself, necessarily a bad thing for everyone. He left it for future generations to reconsider. Which they did, post-expiration, and decided to continue the cherem. But if Gedolei Yisroel at some point in current or future generations reconsider it again and decide its time has ended, they can discontinue the cherem against it. (Rav Avigdor Miller made this point once in one of his Q&As, available on recording.)
N0m: To simply answer your specific question, Rabbeinu Gershom himself had multiple wives.
An additional point is that even for Rabbonim or regular people that the Mishnah or Gemara or later Seforim Hakedoshim tell us, for whatever reasons, was married to “Plonis”, there’s usually no way to know that he was *only* married to Plonis and had no additional wives. Chazal and the Seforim Hakedoshim aren’t giving us their genealogical family trees. They don’t give us a list of all the names of their children either; if the Seforim somehow inform or indicate who their child was (or that Plonis father was whoever), that doesn’t exclude the existence of other children who aren’t mentioned anywhere. They mentioned a specific wife for specific reasons; but that doesn’t exclude the possibility of him having other wives. Why are you assuming he (they, as in the plural of those hes) had only one wife?
Two out of three Avos also had multiple wives.
Avira, how was this issue looked at outside of the Ashkenazic communities? For example, among Teimanim, Moroccan Jews and some other Sephardim that still practice it even up to contemporary times. They have no Halachic sources or gedolim that approve of it and/or are even complimentary of it if practiced under proper circumstances? In some communities (i.e. Teimanim) it wasn’t that uncommon.
The Baba Sali had three wives but I’m not sure if any overlapped with another.
Jack: Excellent comment.
RebYidd23: Let’s work on your idea together for the benefit of the non-Ashkenazic communities.
Di kup moiach shtroizat
Dan furlupte nuz
FYI to Dorah: Rabbeinu Gershom’s Cherem *only* applies to Ashkenazim. It doesn’t, and never did, apply to Sephardim, Teimanim or any of the other non-Ashkenazim. Many of those Yidden have continued to have multiple wives up to the modern era, in contemporary times. That’s just as beautiful a life practice as any Ashkenazic way of life on this issue. It’s a simple as that.
And if you would read my last comment, immediately prior to your potshot, you would see that I made a very clear distinction between Ashkenazim on one hand and non-Ashkenazim (such as Sephardim, Teimanim, etc.) on the other hand. Reading comprehension is a critical skill.
N0m: In cultures where men have multiple wives (such as by Teimanim, Moroccan Jews and some other Sephardic and non-Ashkenazic communities), they don’t usually “date” American-style. They’re more old fashioned, closer to how Israeli Yidden and American Chasidim go about shidduchim (beshow types), than to the Western dating system.
Also, their wives are already aware that they could have sister-wives, and many already have a few. So it is hardly surprising to them.
When Ariel Sharon went there, he incited an intifada.
To huju: Show the post to your shrink and he’ll guide you through it.
Shaigetz Aross.
Yseribus: You excel at excusing any kind of behaviors, mainly by downplaying everything in a comparative fashion (“well X isn’t as bad as Y, and they didn’t do Y!”), of these groups.
Berochim Haboim. This is hardly new.
There is technology today to even make a deep fake video of a person using his image and voice, looking exactly realistic, showing a video of him doing whatever you want him to be seen doing.
I just want to respond to DaMoshe’s absolutely false assertion that Avi Weiss was rejected by the RCA. The fact of the matter is that Avi Weiss has been a Rabbinical member of the RCA for as long as he wanted to. The RCA never kicked him out and kept renewing his membership year after year after year, as long as Avi paid his RCA membership dues. The RCA let Avi remain a member for many years after he established Open Orthodox. It was Avi himself who decided not too long ago that he wasn’t paying his RCA membership renewal. The RCA was happy to renew his membership every year.
And Mr. Weiss’ synagogue in the Bronx, “HIR”, is still a member synagogue of the Orthodox Union.
Shame on the RCA and OU.
CA: They say that “opposites attract”. I think we need to find these two gentlemen and one lady Republican shidduchim.
To huju: Your writing capabilities are on the second grade level. But that’s at a higher level than your logical abilities. I did NOT say singles are sickening; I said toeiva practitioners are.
Do you make no judgement on thieves and molesters and leave that only up to Hashem? Or do you only withhold your judgement on those who commit terrible aveiros that you do not disapprove of, such at toeiva.
The question is only rhetorical; you needn’t answer as the answer is more than obvious.
Dr. E: Despite your posts being reeking with sarcasm, it is absolutely correct that dates and dating activity should be private for tznius reasons. If two people are dating they are dating solely to determine whether they are bashert to marry each other. Until and unless such time that they get engaged, it should not be general public knowledge that they are dating.
“they note that 12% of the respondents self-identify as “open-orthodox”, and 22% as LWMO. A lot of the MO posters here exclude these groups from their own definition of Modern Orthodox.”
Avram: Isn’t that a No True Scotsman? That would be similar, perhaps, to Ultra-Orthodox excluding ganovim and molesters from their own definition of Ultra-Orthodox.
I dished this out of the spam folder and manually restored it.
Test successful.
Dofi: Do you accept what, as you referred to, the Gadol Hador, Harav Aharon Kotler, zt”l said about Modern Orthodoxy?
CTL: Thank you for sharing that vital factoid. It goes on to demonstrate how degenerate the attire of the Western, American led, culture has deteriorated to over the last 60 years.
huju: For you to strike below the belt and accuse older singles, as a group, of being feigelech actively engaged in the lowest, most sickening, terrible and sinful activity can only be described as truly psychotic on your part.
Bard, unlike ChatGPT, has current information.
White car — That read interesting. Here was its output to me for the same query you ran (“Write a poem about theyeshivaworld.com”):
In a world of endless information,
Where knowledge is at our command,
There’s a place that stands out from the rest,
A website known throughout the land.TheYeshivaWorld.com, a site so grand,
A hub of news, both big and small,
A place where you can stay informed,
And never miss a thing at all.From politics to Jewish events,
From health to finance and more,
TheYeshivaWorld.com has it all,
A wealth of information galore.The writers and reporters, so sharp and astute,
Bringing news that’s both relevant and true,
A source of information you can trust,
To keep you up-to-date and in the know.So whether you’re browsing on your phone,
Or sitting down at your desktop,
TheYeshivaWorld.com is always there,
A trusted friend in an uncertain world.So let’s give a shout out to this great site,
For all the work that it does,
For keeping us informed and entertained,
And for being a valuable part of our lives.“Modern Orthodoxy:
– looks similar to conservative Judaism”Dofi: HaGaon HaRav Ahron Kotler ZTV’K”L said exactly that. That MO tries to do the same thing as the Conservative and Reform. See my comment on the previous page providing Rav Ahron’s quote and the exact citation where you can find it in Mishnas Rebi Ahron, to verify for yourself that Rav Ahron said it.
Will you now dismiss and disparage HaGaon HaRav Ahron Kotler the same way yesterday you dismissed and disparaged HaGaon HaRav Eliezer Ginsberg?
N0m: No there are not many reasons one may choose to never marry. There are very very few such reasons. And those very few reasons are applicable to a miniscule number of people.
N0m: Look it up and get back to me with your misunderstanding or misinterpretation of it.
Can anyone share what their most complicated shailos they ran on it that it successfully answered?
WB BaalHabooze!! It’s been too long! Stick around a bit…
Why should we lower the price of dowries? Dowries have a rich, long and proper place in Jewish life from the earliest historical times in Jewish history until the present time.
huju: Did you consider that some unemployed people may be rotzchim? And may be employed as an undisclosed hitman.
Why should we lower the price of dowries? Dowries have a rich, long and proper place in Jewish life from the earliest historical times in Jewish history until the present time.
No one has yet addressed how to help those who ARE too picky become cognizant of the fact that they’re being too picky and that it is sabotaging their marriage prospects.
N0m: Take up your issue with Rav Moshe after reading the Igros Moshe(E.H. 4:60), Prohibition of opposite gender friendship.
It makes many errors. Including on common secular subjects.