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Fyi. Steipler writes clearly, black on white, in karyane de’igreta vol 1 , that
it is assur to say lashon hara about dati leumi yehudim even if they [mistakenly] believe that the state is the forerunner of our ge’oula.
they are not ‘begeder yatsa miklal amitecha’
and are to be considered our brother in all halachik respects .
.
.
obviously they are not jews for jobviously they are not OTD when fully observant
obviously they are not ‘geshmad’
.
they are only ‘mistaken’ in one aspect , but still our brothers witha hiyuv de’oyraytah of ve’ahavtah leacha kamocha, towards them.
.
.@Square Root
You blew this one big time
“Chareidim are NOT INTERESTED in the training, hiring and paying hospital employees.”
[square root]
—Guess you are completely unaware of Mayanei Yeshu’a Hospital in Bnei Brak. They train nurses and other hospital employees. A fully Chareidi hospital that has never gone on strike.
The Haredi Freshwater family has supported this institution.
Kudos to Dr Rothshild z’l , a fully haredi physician, who turned a dream into a reality.
..
Time has come for Square Root to apologize and delete his vile motsi shem ra …..
.
.We should thank ujm for all his quotes proving that we are not in any atchalta degeoula , rather
in a galut as a despised minority within a big and powerful majority of secularists.
as the gra z’l stated that after the galuyot under the 4 malhuyot , there will be
another a fifth galut under the erev rav within the jewish people.
which has come to pass in our days
the redifot that yeshiva bachurim and kolel men have to endure are no joking matter .
.
It is clear that tif’eret shlomo ‘s writing quoted by square root , has no connection whatsoever to
the present situation and
its extremely weighty pikuch nefesh conundrums, to be decided by the wisest of our sages.
..
@aaq
there is no source whatsoever for the court to cancel any law
a law is the expression of the sovereign , the one from where the court derives its own legitimacy
go through the lawbook and find me one …
there is no constitution in Israel , unlike other countries
so the court cannot get it from the constitution.
.without a source , they are … unauthorized !
this is simple logic, totally appropriate for any person , religious or not , ha’arets or not .
.
.a law
@aaq
just the opposite .
am not wearing any political hat at all
am writing with a purely legal hat on my head.
unauthorized decisions , overstepping their legal mandate , are legally null and void
their legal authority derives from the elected knesset only
they never received the authority to infringe on the legislative and executive branches ,
not from the knesset , and not from any other elected representative body
so using simple logic , in a strictly legal sense, their decisions are null and void , and
are to be considered as if they legally never happened
which leads us to the simple legal – not political- conclusion that those enforcing the draft are
legally to be considered ‘kidnappers’ , nothing less.
.those who are not happy with this legal arrangement have the option
to run for seats in the knesset and attempt to find a legal majority to change this
they had this option for the last 80 years in all of Israel’s elections and …
they have never changed the law
besides for the ‘tal law’ which was
again , ILLEGALLY cancelled
.@aaq
Again – sidestepping ….
the q was very simple – in a case when it cannot be helped !
it is impossible to rectify it, this is a fixed result , no matter what advice you give the kids,
.A] 3 kids are coming back crippled l’o
would you send all ten – yes or no ?
.B] 3 kids are coming back without their religion l’o
would you send all ten – yes or no ?
.simple q
deserves a simple answer …
.Lol.
Katan suggests that a non defined ‘esav’ will take care of the land , or
much more important,– the many millions of innocent women, men and children therein , while
somejew prefers the local arabs who are supposedly ‘well regarded as good, respectable caretakers of the land’ …
I am not sure whether to laugh or to cry , when reading such clear delusional propositions.
Anyone with even only rudimentary knowledge of current events and recent history
understands the massive bloody repercussions [H yishmerenu] from such irresponsible approaches
there is no ‘havtuche’ anywhere in the torah that when hefker decisions are taken in regard to pikuach nefesh
that nothing would happen to the endangered people.
this is a clear halacha she’ela .
not a hashkafa she’ela
and there is a clear halacha response , in sh’a YD 157
that pikuch nefesh is docheh any issur [besides the cardinal three] including the sfek sfek sfek sfek sfeika of the oaths’ issur
which clearly is the ONLY driver of those totally delusional propositions of somejew and katan .
.
clearer than midday sun , that , when somejew and katan would be free from
their imprisonment in the confines of the mental jail of the mistaken elevation of the oaths as one of the ikarei emuna,
they , in their wildest dreams would not even think of advocating for such dangerous ideas.
.
Using R Steinman zatsal as proof for katan’s warped shitah that
a fully observant Jew exiting the IDF,
is to be considered OTD , is plain fraudulent .
.
Over the past 50 years, the leftist self-appointed SC and the evil AG have completely rejected
every compromise solution to the Israeli Draft Crisis.Somehow that fact is NEVER MENTIONED
by radical Zionist fanatics like Square.That fact does not fit into his narrative,
so he conveniently forgets about it.
.
.@square
1] first of all — it is absolutely NOT true , —- what you wrote , is just plain ridiculous
2] second — issurei lashon hara apply when it IS true ….
who gave you a heter ?
the same God Who commanded us about motsi shem ra , commanded us about lashon hara …..
why are you getting worked up about katan’s motsi shem ra , and not about your own lashon hara ???
isn’t that hypocritical ??
two weeks before yom hadin ?
.
..
zsk states that he is of the opinion that full time learners should be drafted
but has not shown any reason why those who don’t, are acting against the law
and why those who enforce it should not be legally considered kidnappers.
..
I cannot understand why every answer of yours is again – sidestepping ….
Obvious you would test the the navi.
Obvious you would ask the navi what to do …
The q is ,again, navi tested – tick.
navi not available for advice , result of circumstances – tick.
you have to decide on your own
you know for a fact that 3 of your sons will return as a cripple
you know for a fact that 3 of your sons will return without their religion
the choice is clear – either you send all , or you send none
what would you do ?
send all ten ?
or send none ?
in both cases – the cripple case and the religion case –
please don’t avoid , not asking for more than a simple clear cut answer ….
.This signifies the collapse of somejews pretension to speak in the name of the torah
and in the name of orthodox judaism .
he is simply speaking in the name of …. himself .
.
.seems that square root is not willing to own up to his double standards ….
.Thank you to haimy for your nuanced post .
.Why is the ‘motsi shem ra’ square root , accusing other people of being ….. motsi shem ra ?
.
.@aaq
why are you sidestepping ?
I asked you a simple question …
if a navi told you that 3 of your kids will …. no matter what you advise them
what would you do ?
what’s so hard ?
.“There isn’t much else to say about this ….”
—
That sums it up . You are not willing to consider anything which goes against your preconceived opinion ….The facts however do not stack up .
The same law you quote, gives the defense minister the authority to defer drafting .
That was valid and legal enough for fifty long years .
fifty long years after the law you quote came into effect.
this was accepted practice and fully legal for half a century !
accepted practice by all defense ministers irrespective whether haredi parties were part of the coalition or the opposition .
only overturned by, seven merets voters aka supreme court UNAUTHORISED to do so.
same with Tal law . – overturned by the same merets voters aka supreme court UNAUTHORISED to do so.
those seven merets voters claimed that the tal law is ‘unconstitutional’ –
a fancy word which is nothing more than plain baloney , as Israel has no constitution ….
seven unelected leftists acting illegally have no power whatsoever
to overturn the decisions of Israels duly elected executive and legislative branches of government
so it simply follows , those enforcing the draft are nothing more than kidnappers
and those deferring are doing so legally .
it so happens that zsk concurs with those seven unelected merets voters on this particular issue
but that does not make any of their illegal decisions any more legal …
.
It is always easier to shut down a losing debate by saying : I am not discussing this any further .one should follow facts and logic and nothing more ….
which zsk is not really doing in our case ….
.
.@zsk
you are entitled to your opinion – but that does not make the current draft any more legal ….from a strictly legal point of view – those enforcing the draft, are kidnappers and should be treated as such .
so , calling them ‘draft dodgers’ is less accurate than calling those seeking to arrest them ‘kidnappers’ …
.@aaq
sorry but you have not answered .
the question is , when faced with the absolute knowledge that those are going to be the results , no matter the advice you are giving them ,
You have 10 children – if you know, A NAVI TOLD YOU , that three of them are going to lose their religion because of their service , would you send them ?
You have 10 children – if you know A NAVI TOLD YOU , that three of them are going to lose their health and come back as cripples because of their service , would you send them ?
keep in mind that neither [religion and health] are a result of any enemy actions , both are the result of internal army structure and command
If you could honestly answer both of those two questions …. without extra commentary.
.
.the question is and still remains valid –
if all of the inhabitants of EY do tshuva and are nizhar in everything mamash , besides your interpretation of the oaths , is it permitted/obligated , to defend their safety and fight , in case they cannot run away / make peace / bring the UN / or any other possible etsah ?
yes or no ?
and why ?
based on which halachik source ?
.Why does katan give the impression to be totally indifferent to the lot of the yehudim after his dismantlement of the state ?
.
Is that really part of his shitah ???
.
.Why are they [somejew and katan] so scared to answer ?
is it because of lack of answers ????
.
why is somejew sidestepping again ?
a clear shulhan aruch not like his claims .
why can’t he answer a simple question ?
.I don’t have access to the official printed version which habad disseminated
it is well known , however.
.katan :
Chareidim do not want to rule E”Y …
—Katan is not a spokesman for haredim .
the overwhelming majority of haredim who do participate in israeli elections , do want to rule EY ….
if they would constitute a majority , they would rule .
don’t be fooled by katans rigid adherence to a literal reading of SR writings .
his comments reflect nothing more .
.
.Where is square root ?
does he take responsibility for his vile rant ?
or is he hiding ?
.
Square root has lost his whole credibility by first shouting from all the rooftops that he is against motsi shem ra
and then himself spouting all types of baseless antisemitic accusations against many innocent hardworking people , who I personally know and recognize as such .
am betting that square himself is not ‘interested’ in building houses ‘with his bare hands’
nor is he ‘interested’ in picking fruit with his bare hands either …
am disgusted by his two facedness …..
.
.katan conveniently closes his eyes whenever something not fitting his shitah pops up …
and then claims he did not see it …
he is very nizhar in shmirat enayim ….
.katan :
The Khazar state is not a question on anything. The State existed when they were gentiles, and some of their ruling class then converted to Judaism. And their reign did not last all that long …
—
does katan realize he did not address the question at all ?katan claims the MERE EXISTENCE of a state before mashiach is kfira and yehareig ve’al yaavor ….
khazar state existed over many generations ,
so why did r yehuda halevy , when teaching the khazar king all about our belief , not at all mention this supposed hugely important ikar of judaism ?
katan seems happy to leave this [and many other] question[s] unanswered ….
and still expects us to accept his farfetched and unsubstantiated theories on the grounds of his say so ….
.
.katan :
The oaths do not apply during Temple times. That’s why.
—
why do they not apply during temple times ?=====
The oaths do not apply during Temple times. That’s why.—
and if the jews will rebuild the temple nowadays , according to your reasoning , will the oaths stop applying ?
.While I am not a zionist [like damoshe is] and I do disapprove of zionism ,
nevertheless it is clear that he can be a zionist and still not reject the torah
like steipler clearly writes in karyaneh de’igrata vol 1
.Have not heard from square root yet —-
Nu
when is Square Root going to delete his motsi shem ra ???
.katan :
Obviously, as the Chazon Ish wrote, the Zionist “independence” day should really be, if anything, a 9 Av, not a holiday.—
don’t believe chazon ish himself ever wrote that …
.Would katan would use the services of any atheist/zionist/reform top surgeons …. ?
yes or no ?
. waiting for an honest answer
.katan seems afraid to answer ……
wonder why ….
is it because his intuition tells him that his answer will prove to be contradictory to his make believe shitah he is trumpeting as if reflecting the torah ?
the more he avoids answering , the more it seems that is really the case ….
.nu mr somejew ??
yb: The Zionists’ tremendous weakness in logic is very clear indeed.
Since you asked:
1] specifying exactly which country will take over – the nations can figure that out
2] what that country plans to do when threats arise to the yidden – this is silly; what would you do if there are threats to Jews in Zimbabwe, for example? The government there would have to deal with it. Same in the holy land, with whichever government takes over from the Zionists.
3] how many dead soldiers are they are willing to absorb before they will withdraw – zero, of course – it should be totally peaceful and bloodless, of course.
4] what the situation will be after their withdrawal … – a normal and secure country unlike the Zionist paradise which is forever at war and takes billions of dollars a year to maintain that sorry state and “State”.
—-
the above are the ‘pearls’ from the one pretending to worry about the Jews .
Read his words – he takes ZERO responsibility ….
.
.
scandalous ….
.katan is scared to answer ?
.again mr some jew …
sh’a says clearly , and I am copying from your quote of shulchan aruch ….
כל העבירות שבתורה, חוץ מעבודה זרה, גילוי עריות ושפיכות דמים, אם אומרים לו לאדם שיעבור עליהם או ייהרג,
אם הוא בצינעה – יעבור ואל ייהרג
אם הוא בפרהסיא, דהיינו בפני עשרה מישראל, חייב ליהרג ולא יעבור, אם העובד כוכבים מכוון להעבירו על דת
clear as day that all averot besides the three , he should be over the issur …
betsin’a for sure
and also befarhesya if the one who is forcing does not want to leha’avir al hadat .
so , the one coming to murder , the one which necessitates the issur , he has no intention leha’avir al hadat
the din is ya’avor
not like maharal in his agada sefer
.
not a ‘bomba kushya’ – just pashut pshat …
.
.Why is somejew refusing to answer simple questions which will clarify the shitah he is trying to ram down everyone’s throat as the only acceptable torah approach ??
why ?
is he scared ?
.think we could start to agree
aaq is refusing to answer ….
so – seems like my initial impression was correct – he is lacking in the basics of yir’at shamayim …
.
am still happy to be proven wrong here ….
.
.Nu
when is Square Root going to delete his motsi shem ra ???
.the king converted after having already been king,
SO WHAT ? IF EXISTENCE OF A STATE IS ASSUR , HE SHOULD DISSOLVE HIS KINGDOM …..
—and that kingdom anyways didn’t last,
SO WHAT ? IT LASTED FOR QUITE A FEW GENERATIONS , NO ONE CALLED ON THEM TO DISSOLVE IT
—
not that it matters since he didn’t ask any rabbi for permission to rule as a Jew; he just did so.
R YEHUDA HALEVY TEACHES THE KING AT LENGTH ALL IMPORTANT STUFF ABOUT JUDAISM …. [in his sefer hakuzari]
AND LEFT OUT SOMETHING SO IMPORTANT , WHICH RENDERS PEOPLE INTO ‘KOFRIM’ …… ???
come on …. .
.
.The Steipler is rightly quoted as claiming that the State is halachically permitted once it’s been established. I myself looked it up again .
It is there , black on white, in karyane de’igrata vol 1 .
.Hashem sent us under the persian golus even with a temple
and then He put us under the greeks under galut yavan .
why should the oaths not apply ?
we were ,clearly by Hashems decree under galut yavan .
what right did they have to rebel against that ?
.
Source please ?
.you are entitled to your opinion – but that does not make the current draft any more legal ….
from a strictly legal point of view – those enforcing the draft, are kidnappers and should be treated as such .
.@square root
when are you going to delete your vile motsi shem ra rant about haredim ?
or alternatively ,
delete your multiple posts accusing others of motsi shem ra ?
.
.When will square root take responsibility ?
.
.