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@Avi k
Besides your shitot which are wrong
your facts are also wrong
R E Wasserman zatsal clearly refers to the term dati le’umi in his writings
at the end of kovets he’arot on yevamot
REW was murdered al kidush hashem in 1941 …
.
.
.@avi k
because the torah mandates this hishtadlut.
simple .
which protects , because they are listening to the torah
as does – not enlisting
that’s also listening to the torah
because he torah mandates listening to the sages who instructed not to enlist
the q is on you –
why do you think you are exempt from listening to the sages ?
.@AAQ
You seem to be ignorant of the facts .
And you are not addressing my point at all.
.
.politicians DID create a way to stop them.
the MAJORITY of the Knesset passed many laws to stop them ,
which were immediately vetoed by the same SC effectively blocking any voter based authority on this subject
this , while they themselves are the subject of the legislation ….
.
.your problem is that you are so naive that
in your wildest dreams they could not do such a thing
that’s why you discount plain reality right in front of your eyes
easy to check , read about it , george orwell in action , ….. right here , right now ….
unbelievable … but true …..
.
.AAQ
your approach stems from your lax attitude towards yahadut
you have not internalized the calamity of OTD , nor the calamity of OTD lemechtsa , lishlish ulerevi’a
in your eyes its not more than an inconvenience.
rav zilberstain is on record permitting hilul shabat !! mamash to avoid the draft, if the draft risks the yahadut of the draftee
thats only because halacha considers the calamity of OTD for what it really is …
.you have not yet responded to the q about the three sons returning as a cripple as result internal army policy
whether you would send all 10 of your sons
.
.learning horayot reminds us how pervasive mistakes are
so – why do you consider AAQ as more immune to mistakes than the collective of our chachamim ??
without getting personal – isn’t that a sign of hubris ??
.
.@AAQ
Reread : Previous post was not clear enough
.The SC canceled every law which they saw as touching their own authority . And that without any legal basis .
If that’s not illegal , then what is ?
.you seem to be [sorry] ok with
forming opinions without knowing fact and figures first
I rather hold of the following approach – First one gathers the facts and the figures , then one forms an opinion , accordingly.
.
..
.@AAQ
They will not transform the army .
The army will transform them .
.And that’s exactly their objective !
thousands of our forefathers lived with mesirut nefesh mamash in order to transmit the mesorah to us
its much too precious to squander it on some irresponsible ‘temporary feel and look good’ venture ….
.
.sechor sechor amrinan lenezirah lekarma lo tikrav …
al tevi’enu lyedie nisayon
Besides , once they go , the dam has burst and all will go ….
its time you should be mitchazek a bit more in your emunat chachamim ….
.
..
The only ones who would have those details would be those in political power, not ordinary commenters on this forum.
[katan]—
Katan agrees here that he himself does not have those details …Meaning he himself does not know which esav country would be willing to assume control of EY ….
And which esav country will be accepted by the Arabs in EY …
And still assumes that he is able to convince his readers of the practicality of his suggestion in 2025
without him self even knowing what he is suggesting ….
am wondering whether his readers should be insulted …
insulted by the apparent lack of basic intelligence katan is imputing to them ….
.
.Those details aren’t needed because the point addressing the OP was sufficiently made without those details …
[katan]—
There are questions remaining even after your post . Seems that your point was not sufficiently made …..
.AAQ is insinuating in his latest post that he would send all ten even when having clear foreknowledge that three will come back OTD …
I don’t have a problem at all with his strategy of minimizing risk
but sometimes reality is such that losses will for sure occur
and AAQ has let us know that even in a case of a certain loss of three of his children’s religion , he would still send all ten
.here is the crux of the issue , here is THE point where AAQ deviates from the unanimous haredi sages’ position.
AAQ is willing to sacrifice three of his sons’ religion
on the altar of ‘sharing burdens’ and on the altar
of the false hope of finding favor in eyes of those who disdain us
while the haredi consensus is
that our children’s religion is one of the most precious things one can have, not to be bartered for anything in the universe
—By the way , AAQ has not insinuated at all , about what he would do if he had foreknowledge that 3 of his sons would come back as cripples chv’sh , not as result of combat , but as result of internal army policy ?
From his lack of answer we could safely assume that he would not send any of his ten sons ….
.
and here comes the million dollar question –
MA NISHTANA between 3 sons without religion and 3 sons without their health [both chv’sh] ???
I suspect that AAQ considers – like all other critics on this page , and all around the world for that matter …-
loss of religion, a relatively minor problem , while a lack of health a major one ….
.
.
The difference between the Sages and their critics is this following point :
how tragic and how major is the issue of decline in yirat shamayim or the issue of OTD ?Is it a calamity ?
or an inconvenience ?
.if you support forced haredi draft, it is an inconvenience .
if you resist haredi draft, it is a calamity.
.
.quite simple…..
.katan :
The point remains: “…as the Satmar Rav wrote decades ago, that non-Zionist rule by a responsible Esav ruler would be far better for Jews there and around the world than would be any Zionist regime. …The details aren’t relevant here, nor is anyone obligated to provide them to the idolaters here.”
—Why are the details not relevant ?
Why are we not obligated to provide them ?
Do we have those details at all ?
.
They obviously believe that the Torah protects. Thats why they are learning whenever not protesting.
The reason why they protest is because they listen to the Sages who advised to protest.
Because the torah commanded them to listen to the Sages.
So , listening to Sages is another form of listening to the Torah , which protects.
So yes, protesting protects from the gezerat shmad which is imposed on them by your friends.
.katan :
Any objective observer would conclude, as the Satmar Rav wrote decades ago, that non-Zionist rule by a responsible Esav ruler would be far better for Jews there and around the world than would be any Zionist regime. This blows the mind of the Zionist idolaters, but that’s the reality. The details aren’t relevant here, nor is anyone obligated to provide them to the idolaters here.
—Utter folly.
SR wrote that in the fifties or in the forties when huge nations were ruled by colonial empires.
This era is long gone.
There no Arab populations being governed by esav anywhere on the globe for a long time.
There is a valid reason for that , just in case you don’t know …
They think that they can do a much better job.
Right or wrong , but that’s what they think .
So once mr katan will agree to this reality , which even a ten year old can grasp ,
then we are in business …. Arabs will not agree to be governed by outsiders , esav or not , SR or not .
Katan claims that he has some big secret in his bag , which for some mysterious reason we are not allowed to know about ….
the details of the future governing power in EY ….
he has let on that it is esav , but the rest we still have to guess …. why ???
Aha , because we are “idolaters” …..
Thats seems a fitting punishment for zionists like us !
We are sentenced to mandatory guessing games ….
—
When will katan and somejew be honest enough to agree that they do not have a solution for the pikuach nefesh needs of the jews in EY ?
When will that happen ?
Because , without honesty , it is exceedingly difficult to have real debate ….
.
.Come on ….
Inter – Arab violence and clear mass pikuach nefesh in all 12 instances I mentioned which happened over the last 20 years are because of the Zionists ????
Hamas throwing Arabs off high rises is because of zionists ??
They have no regard whatsoever for human life , not their own and for sure not about their perceived enemies.
This is not written as a passing of moral judgement .
This is merely an observation of reality.
A reality which cannot be wished away .
A reality which has to be dealt with .
Same with all other 12 examples of totally depraved barbarities
depicted in real life right in front of our very eyes over the last 20 years all around the Middle East .
katan and somejew remind me of the proverbial ostriches
instead of burying their heads in the sand
they turn the clock back to the 1880’s – voila , no problems at all ….. all solved …..
its all the z ‘s fault ….
as if that changes reality by a millimeter …..
..
Re R Steinman
I think the answer is simple.
Did he support the draft ?
Absolutely not.
But he recognized that we do not live in an ideal world , and that necessitates pragmatism
he recognized that haredim are a minority living in galut.
the binary choice would -in his view- be
between all out war with the majority as it unfortunately became the case now, and
a tacit approval for the weaker non yir’at shamayim element , or better said the hefker OTD crowd who still wear haredi levush
to enlist and have a rigid framework , while all other haredim , including the working element legally deferring or being exempted.
So , barring a clear cut case of haredi levush but already OTD , he would advise not to enlist
that’s my understanding of his approach , and may be wrong …
.@AAQ
If you think they are violating some rules, then other parts of the system, like Knesset, should be able to override them …Fully agreed.
They should be able to override …
You are not updated, seems like – they did override them , multiple times …
They canceled every law which they saw as touching their own authority . And that without any legal basis .
If that’s not illegal , then what is ?
you seem to be [sorry] ok with something called the ‘ostrich approach’
I rather hold of the following approach – First one gathers the facts and the figures , then one forms an opinion , accordingly.
.
.@AAQ
thanks for the correction about the mareh makom of the turei zahav
my memory is not exact enough
there is no difference between a ben torah and talmid chacham , however ,
the principle of turei zahav stands regardless
.@non political
you are 100 % right in your observation
.
.the question I am repeatedly posing to AAQ , and did not merit to receive a straight answer to — yet , is
a hypothetical one
AAQ obviously does not have 10 sons eligible for the Israeli draft , and
obviously he has no foreknowledge what is going to happen to them
.but AAQ [in addition to countless others] is very quick to pass judgement on the leaders of haredi judaism
for their advice discouraging the draft.
AAQ himself , even after numerous direct and targeted prodding , declined to answer 2 simple questions
.It is safe to assume that the reason of his repeated non answer is
because he knows that any honest answer will include a negative – no , he will not send any of his sons
.in the case of three of them returning as a cripple, for sure not
and in the case of three of them returning OTD , also not.
.so AAQ himself in regard to his own children would advise them not to enlist …
.why is he critical of gdolei yisrael who advise the exact same to
their students who alpi torah are considered like their own children ?
.
.it is becoming clearer and clearer that criticism of non enlistment
is rooted in either a lack of care for the individual to be enlisted, or
a lack of care about the overwhelming calamity of this individual going OTD
.
.… it’s not very relevant what to expect from Arab rule in the holy land …, because nobody suggested that Arabs should rule there …
[katan]—
plain incorrect .
somejew is clearly on record , claiming repeatedly that Arabs are respected and should be trusted with government in EY.
I asked 12 realistic questions – no answer whatsoever has been forthcoming ,yet ….
katan, however , claims some ‘unnamed esav’ should be trusted to take over government
katan consistently declines to name that country , however.
it seems it’s meant to be some sort of surprise …. in the ruach of purim maybe ….
when katan will deign to specify which country is going to be trusted to shield EY’s jews from a wild and hating Arab populace
we should ask him too whether the same wild Arab populace of EY , has agreed to be governed by this ‘esav country’ ??
very important question …
maybe katan knows what we do not know ….
maybe katan knows of other Arab populations which are governed by ‘esav vountries’ ??
he should share their names with us
just in the very unlikely case that we will be met with deafening silence as an answer [or with sidestepping]
which will cause us to take this an admission that there are not any esav countries governing Arab populations on the globe
the next question will come up – why not ??
why are no Arab populations governed by any esav countries ??
.
.the only plausible reason I can see on
why people take the issue of OTD lightly – is that they only pay lip service to this whole scare of OTD
they do not really care about it ….
so they belittle it …
no study , no this , no that …..
.
.As it happens, though, there is a different example, Morocco, where even now the Jewish community still exists, with active support of their Muslim king who has restored synagogues and promoted Jewish heritage.
[katan]—
I hear your answer here.
But mr katan , what is your honest opinion ,
will EY under Arab control resemble Morrocco , a stable country for as long as we can remember, or
one of the other 12 examples of recent and present mass pikuach nefesh areas in the ME ?
considering the exagerated grievances the Arab locals are being fed with their mother’s milk for many generations
and considering the wide support hamas and islamic jihad receive in Arab society
and considering hamas’ stated policy of “the suitcase or the coffin” [H yishmor]
or their promise to duplicate October 7 again again , until there are no more jews left in palestine [H yishmor]
an honest answer mr katan – would you wager your own house on this ????
.
honesty – honesty , goes a long way ……
.
.@AAQ
the q is still very simple – in a case when it cannot be helped !
if it is impossible to rectify it, when you know for sure that this is a fixed result , no matter what advice you give the kids,
.A] 3 kids are coming back crippled l’o
would you send all ten – yes or no ?
.B] 3 kids are coming back without their religion l’o
would you send all ten – yes or no ?
—
no reason to fear an honest answer …
.
@AAQ
saying something is illegal when it is illegal is not “vile” at at all
it is merely stating a legal fact
Hafets Hayim would never object to that
.@aaq
Never said their position was not a legitimate position as a private opinion within the Israeli State.
According to Israeli law they can advocate for this position , run for election , and attempt that their position should garner a majority and then pass it into law.
Totally within their rights acc to Israeli Law .
But to falsely label full time torah students as criminals , dodgers or fugitives etc , when SC’s cancellation of the Tal Law was done in an unauthorized and therefore illegal way , is beyond acceptable .
The people acting as enforcers of this illegal decision, are legally nothing more than kidnappers .
This is a plain legal issue , not a call to violence at all.
The SC cancelling Knesset’s law regulating the SC’s own authority is nothing more than one big farce. Even a ten year old sees through it.
This not “vile” ,
this is accurate.
.My imperfect understanding that politically the law was damaged by lack of results – while it proposed a path for charedim to integrate, that did not happen. That was a chance for some compromise, but I guess both sides decided to risk and press their advantage.
[aaq]
—Yes, I do agree that yours is an imperfect understanding , sorry about that.
The ONLY reason Tal law is not officially in force now – is the SC .
Nothing else.
They used non-existing authority to cancel it.
So it legally follows – that if cancellation is illegal – the law is legally still in force.
.
Simple.
.@AAQ
its a mitsva for a ben torah to be asleep at 3 am
he needs to concentrate the next day
cf. turei zahav EH 23.
.
@AAQ
Got news for you .
Majority of Knesset is of the same opinion as me .
They acted already .
They passed laws curtailing the SC’s illegal activities .
Which were illegally overturned by that very same SC.
Those illegal rulings by the SC were illegally enforced by thugs, paid by leftists , who virtually stopped everything.
And threatened to destroy the whole country if SC’s power is diminished in any way.
They were aided and abetted by the MSM and the corrupt judicial system .
So without any recourse , the Knesset was rendered practically powerless …..
Unbelievable – right ?
I couldn’t make it up …
These are the plain facts….
Follow the Israeli news , and its all there …..
.I am still [patiently…] waiting for AAQ’s wisdom ….
.Katan is too scared to answer questions
He knows that honesty will not serve him too well ….
.A few questions for katan – which the Brisker Rav did not address …
.katan will have to use his own head ….
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for yazidi’s in the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for alawites in the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for kurds in the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for xtians in the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for druze in the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for arabs from each other in Sudan within the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for arabs from each other in Libya within the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for arabs from each other in Yemen within the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for arabs in Gaza from hamas within the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for arabs from each other in Lebanon within the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for arabs from each other in Iraq within the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
—
Assuming katan and somejew are honest enough to give accurate responses to the above questionsthe question follows –
why do they assume that the hated and demonized jews will fare any better that the above mentioned fellow arabs and fellow muslims ?
hope the lalaland somejew and katan commenters will not, like a one trick pony , broken record like, start us about the supposedly idyllic situation of the jews in moslem lands before the advent of zionism some 120 years ago.
This is totally irrelevant .
What is relevant — is what we can logically expect from the Arabs in 2025 …
the question is dramatic and immediate – MA NISHTANA IN 2025 ,
why are all those fellow arabs and fellow muslims in sakana over the last 20 years ,
and the jews will suddenly be safe ???
.
..
notice to katan –
All ‘real non-Zionist posekim’ paskin halacha lema’aseh, that
the subsequent children of a grusha, divorced with a get signed by fully frum athalta digeuola believers , to be ksherim lavo bakahal .
this is pashut and also easily verifiable .
this is fully in line with steipler who unequivocally states
its assur to speak lashon hara about dati le’umi as they are not yatsa michlal amitecha …
.
.
.Brisker Rav published a KK signed by the Gerrer Rebbe and many others that “Dati Leumi” education is a “sea of heresy mixed in with a drop of Torah”.”
—KK was referring to dati le’umi hinuch in their era and their locale.
Nothing more.
And , again, the KK was lesheim hitrachkut , not to entrust your children to them.
Not lehalacha.
.
Notice to katan .
sfarim hakdoshim write that ka’as is heresy .
Wine of a ko’es is not yayin nesech ….
.Rav Elchonon states b&w in kovetz maamarim that “Dati leumi” is literal idolatry.
—REW z’l did not issue any halacha psak that “Dati leumi” is literal idolatry.
Far from it.
This was a ma’amar hashkafa , and meant as mussar vehit’orerut.
Not lehalacha.
Pashut to any beginner ….
.Chazon Ish NEVER stated that dati le’umi wine is yayin nesech.
None of chazon ish devotees ever considered dati leumi touched wine as yayin nesech.
This a verifiable fact .
There are hundreds of chazon ish devotees in BB , serious talmidei hahamim .
Utter baloney.
.AAQ
the reason I employ the term ‘legally considered kidnappers’ is merely a reaction
a reaction to the tsunami of moralizing and smearing adjectives thrown in the direction of innocents
adjectives like ‘lawbreakers’ or ‘criminals’ or ‘dodgers’, which are misplaced.
full time learners , and haredim more generally, are a minority treated with disdain and derision
in a sea of powerful well-oiled secularism
not only haredim are treated with said disdain and derision –
settlers of the dati le’umi variety have the doubtful privilege to receive the same type of treatment in Israel ,
they are also a despised minority there , although the latest turn of the political wheels
made them temporarily forget their ‘special status’
the wheels in Israel turn very fast …
.@aaq
??
.AAQ
but that was not what my post was about .
my post was about the legality of the kidnappers who enforce the illegal draft
speaking in a strictly legal sense
which you did not address at all
.
AAQ
Israel is not America .
To use American tactics in Israel is naive and therefore dangerous .
You will be taken for a ride .
As experience has amply shown.
.Katan is continuing to live in lala land …
A few questions for him – which the Brisker Rav did not address …
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for yazidi’s in the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for alawites in the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for kurds in the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for xtians in the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for druze in the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for arabs from each other in Sudan within the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for arabs from each other in Libya within the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for arabs from each other in Yemen within the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for arabs in Gaza from hamas within the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for arabs from each other in Lebanon within the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
Is / was there pikuach nefesh for arabs from each other in Iraq within the Middle East in the last 20 years ?
—
Assuming katan and somejew are honest enough to give accurate responses to the above questionsthe question follows –
why do they assume that the hated and demonized jews will fare any better that the above mentioned fellow arabs and fellow muslims ?
hope the lalaland somejew and katan commenters will not, like a one trick pony , broken record like, start us about the supposedly idyllic situation of the jews in moslem lands before the advent of zionism some 120 years ago.
the question is dramatic and immediate – MA NISHTANA IN 2025 ,
why are all those fellow arabs and fellow muslims in sakana over the last 20 years ,
and the hated [no difference why] jews will suddenly be safe ???
.
.for the benefit of the readers –
I will correctly rephrase somejews previous post …
—
a person like @ujm who quotes the many many quotes from chazal that mention that there will be a time that Jews will suffer under a kingdom of the “erev rav”.Many many quotes from chazal that express this “erev rav” as being direct partners with the S”M and Amulek.
And now, with the rise of this non antisemitic stated called “Israel”,
a state that has tried to defend itself from so much death ,
a state based on the same ideology that has not brought us the Holocaust ,
a state that continues to send Jewish boys off to die in order to preserve the lives of its civilians ,you can find many many many rabunim and gedolim who say explicitly that the power the evil secularists within the state called “Israel” are wielding , is exactly that malchis of “erev rav” that chazal mentioned.
Why do you call a person who reiterates those Torah teachings as a “Rasha Gamur”(sic)?
.The problem is that somejew and katan are employing a literal reading to divrei drush
they are mistaking divrei drush and divrei mussar as if they were halachot psukot arrived at kedarka shel torah
they are not
hence, their ‘totally off’ maskanot …
.Edited
I merely quoted the steipler as it is written
clearly differentiating between jews for j about who there is no mitsva of ve’ahavta , on one hand and
dati leumi jews where there is a hiyuv de’oraytah of vea’havtah , on the other hand
I never advocated for believing in athalta di’ge’oula
nor have I ever claimed anything about some supposed “impossibility of becoming a rushe” …
hareshut netuna [mishna avot] is said about everyone – from somejew and katan themselves to
yours truly and any other jew.
.
and besides am not entirely sure what somejew even wants in his last post ….
..
@ square root
Thank you for your response.
Sorry , but What you wrote does not reflect reality .
You should really withdraw the rest of your writing about haredim too – not only the part about hospitals .
Most of it is demonstrably incorrect.
Wishing you and yours -like coffee – a Chativa v Chatima Tova and ask that you be Moichel to me if I have committed an avera against you
.@square
I cannot see why ujm is any more of a rasha than
someone who is clearly motsi shem ra – or even says lashon hara- about
hundreds of thousands of innocent and sincere individuals ….
.
..
@aaq
no one was ever hinting at any violence
neither is anyone using vile language
we are only reflecting on raw reality as it manifests itself
whatever I wrote is nothing more than a mirror of said reality
Israeli laws are clear cut
they totally omit any power given under any circumstance for any court to abolish any law
what SC does and did , is an absolutely illegal power grab ,
aided and abetted by an AG beholden to said SC and by
violent street protests bankrolled by overseas governments ‘aid’ money and by soros type NGO’s
.Besides – SC’s annulment of the Tal law was made under false pretenses of so called ‘equality’
blatantly obviously false , as this very same SC upholds Israeli Arabs automatic freedom from Army service
notwithstanding their full and equal legal citizenship in the state , not any less than haredim’s legal citizenship .
.
.
So – legally, full time learners deferring their service are not draft dodgersand those enforcing it – are legally , kidnappers
.
.
.this was written from a strictly legal perspective.
.@aaq
to clarify – there is no law authorizing the SC to cancel any laws passed by the knesset.
you say – there is nothing forcing the knesset to follow the SC , -that is a perfectly accurate observation.
that is besides the violent thugs , bankrolled by soros and the biden admin ,
who forcibly put the whole country to a stop
shielded by a corrupt SC, and
helped by biased media and bureaucracy
which was the only thing stopping the knesset from asserting its legal and lawful authority.
.to summarize , SC overreach, bases itself, not on Israeli law as it really should , but on plain violent street thuggery.
.
this is well known to anyone following Israeli news …
.it is obviously not a sfek-sfek-sfek…sfeika if the Zionists are violating the oaths. That’s silly. [katan]
—
you are misinterpreting what I said .All I am dealing with ,is not the tsidkut or otherwise of the z.
We have to deal in a cold logical halachik way without emotions ,
about the continued EXISTENCE of the state ,
not about the z campaign under the british ,
not the establishment of the state ,
not about the wars that followed.
not about what the z could or should have done,
they are all history , and irrelevant
the question of the continued EXISTENCE of the state is intertwined with the pikuach nefesh of millions
and therefore extremely weighty
this question of the continued EXISTENCE of the state vs the pikuach nefesh concerns ,
is to be solved on the basis of PRESENT REALITY in 2025.
sidestepping this reality , automatically disqualifies you from any halachic logical input to deal with this problem
that would be the same as purposely ignoring the workings of a fridge and
then in the same breath claiming that you know whether its use is permitted on shabat.
—
Since the discussion is not about ‘history’ , rather about reality.meaning the EXISTENCE of the state ,
it definitely is a sfek-sfek-sfek…sfeika
whether said EXISTENCE contravenes the oaths
.
..
“The only delusion I see in this discussion is Z … if the Z actually cared about Jewish lives …. [katan]
—
that’s exactly your problem . you cannot see anything beyond the rish’ut of the z .that blinds you to all reality and warps your mind to consider the present world with a century old perspective,
time to wake up, mr katan, we are now in 2025 … and have to respond to the reality in 2025 ….
..
@aaq
it seems you are determined to make it into the Guinness book of records under the subject of sidestepping …
such a simple question and you keep on refusing to answer …
what’s the big deal about answering ?
in case where advice etc. does not help – ,period.
in a cold , cost and benefit analysis , would you send all ten , or would you send none ?
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I am [patiently…] waiting for your honors wisdom ….
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.@aaq
unfortunately, @somejew is desperate to always misinterpret yankels comments , making believe that
yankel said his own histadlis are what saves lives and that ultimately he is in control of his own destiny.
somejew does not [want to] understand the oft repeated axiom from kadmonenu that in saving or helping others ,
there is no inyan of bitachon . one is mehuyav to approach that inyan of helping others as
if there is no inyan of bitachon on the RBSH”O , and has to be done ‘all out’.
that was all yankel said .
he merely quoted from kadmonenu
so- what follows is that , when considering helping and saving your neighbor[s] , the hiyuv hishtadlut has to be “all out ”
as the everyday example of the tsadiqim of hatsala amply demonstrate
they do not wait and shmooze , they run as fast as they can ,
even if it is a safek , even it is a sfek sfeika , even if it is a sfek sfek sfeika , even if it is a sfek sfek sfek sfek sfeika,
even on shabbat , even on yom tov , even on yom kippur
and they do not say , the result is anyway bashert , I have bitachon,
I can walk the same pace I walk to shul , or to do any other mitsva , whatever happens will happen anyway …
no hatsala member , anywhere in the world, has that approach
because of that axiom in yahadut – when you have to help or save someone else
the hiyuv is to act as if the outcome depends only on your actions
that is not kfira chv’sh , that is the proper approach al pi torah
thats all yankel has been saying from the start, and that is all yankel continues to say in to the future
somejew is ignoring that , at his own peril
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