@doomsday I’m going to keep posting this comment until you respond. You’re moving the goalposts again! Now you’re focused on SIDS. Why stick with one study when you have your big 157 studies to back you up? Reason: There are no studies demonstrating a link, certainly not 157 of them. The claim of 157 was made by some anti-medicine blogger and is debunked in the articles whose names I posted below.

Remember, you have to Google the following:

• “Vaccines and autism: A thorough review of the evidence” from the blog “The Logic of Science”
• “About Those Research Papers Supporting the Vaccine/Autism Link” from the blog “Vaxopedia”

To remind everyone: @doomsday stated on another thread (over and over again) that there are many studies linking immunization to autism. First s/he claimed 24, but that number went up to 157 the next day. Instead of providing a source, s/he kept saying “Google it”. S/he is constantly calling me and others “liars” because we don’t believe him/her. So I Googled it and found a few blogs debunking the claim but s/he keeps pretending I didn’t.

@doomsday

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/studies-on-vaccines-you-might-have-missed/page/8/#post-1635578

You still haven’t responded to my comments about your claim that “157 studies” show that vaccines cause autism. Remember, you have to Google the following:

• “Vaccines and autism: A thorough review of the evidence” from the blog “The Logic of Science”
• “About Those Research Papers Supporting the Vaccine/Autism Link” from the blog “Vaxopedia”

To remind everyone: @doomsday stated on another thread (over and over again) that there are many studies linking immunization to autism. First s/he claimed 24, but that number went up to 157 the next day. Instead of providing a source, s/he kept saying “Google it”. S/he is constantly calling me and others “liars” because we don’t believe him/her. So I Googled it and found a few blogs debunking the claim but s/he keeps pretending I didn’t.

Which Ponevezh was he in?

The nomenclature of “Rebbe” and “Frierdiker” is always so confusing to me. I mean, Rav MM Schneerson ZT”L is really the frierdicker, since there’s no current Rebbe.

@doomsday I’m still waiting for your response to what I said last week. Namely, that there aren’t 157 reports showing that vaccines cause autism. The following sites prove it:

• “Vaccines and autism: A thorough review of the evidence” from the blog “The Logic of Science”
• “About Those Research Papers Supporting the Vaccine/Autism Link” from the blog “Vaxopedia”

@poilkj I trust the government to make certain decisions to protect us. Immunizing children protects everyone, not just the kids getting the vaccine. There’s no slippery slope, because this is a major issue that involves literally everyone.

Everyone knows the קשה of the Bais Yosef, but I want to know what your answer is to the lesser known question. If טומאה הותרה בציבור then why did they need a כשר bottle of oil to begin with?

@truthishidden But you don’t actually have a valid argument! Antibodies wear off after a few years which is why it is crucial to vaccinate young! Proper herd immunity will kill a virus in a vaccinated population after only a few short years which is why we don’t need to keep vaccinating adults every decade. And your raya to this is a study from the 1950s?! Studies from a little as 10 years ago are out of date, who knows what data and facts came to light in 60+ years!

@doomsday Yes you exist and yes you persist in not answering anything anyone throws back at you. I’m like 98% certain you’re just a troll. Nobody can be this persistent on absolutely nothing.

First off, can you blame me for getting the wrong Danish study if you never posted the name and author of the study in the first place? I simply looked for “Danish CDC study” on freak anti-health sites and this one study kept on coming up. If that wasn’t what you were talking about, then fine. Be more specific!

Now answer a simple yes/no true/false question. Namely, the one I posed earlier. If you cannot (or will not) the board as a whole will have to conclude that you are just a troll and don’t actually believe what you write.

@nishtdayngesheft

If the only reason you can give for the hate is Eisav soneh es Yaakov, why in frum places like Five Towns, Cleveland, and LA do you not have the opposition to frumkeit that Ramapo has?

In a way, you are right. Eisav hates us and always will. We are in Galus and Hashem sends us constant reminders of that. But some of us choose to ignore the reminders, pretend that we rule the world, and give Eisav more reason to hate us. We should always remember our place in this world. The goyim rule over us until Moshiach comes. When we fight that idea, like what Ramapo Yidden have been doing, they just grow stronger, as evidenced by Mawah, Airmont, and Pomona.

@doomsday I have shown you in previous comments that although you claim 24 studies show a link between vaccines and autism, those studies show no such thing.

True or false?

@doomsday And just because you refuse to address the dozens of comments responding to your allegations does not mean you’re right. The first CDC study you claimed had “falsified data” was the so called “Danish Study”. But you were wrong. The data wasn’t falsified. There was just one guy on the study who exaggerated his expenses and kept the money for himself. That was all. The study still stands and you still refused to address that.

Now now! Wait a second… don’t tell me you were talking about another CDC study. That’s goalpost moving. First address the original comment, then you can move on to something else. Your first comment was about the “Danish Study”. Admit you were wrong or address my response, then and only then can you bring something else up.

Guys, don’t get sidetracked. Notice how @doomsday, @truthishidden, and the other anti-vaxxers have backed off of each claim as they are disproved and moved on to something else. First it was “CDC lies”, when that was shown to be false they moved on to “you guys are liars”, when asked for clarification it became “Google the phrase 24 vaccine autism studies” that was shown to be a product of an uneducated mind attempting to read scientific literature so they moved on to Googling “157 vaccine autism studies” (the more the merrier, I guess?), I showed them how that was similarly nonsense, so they followed up with more name calling until settling in on VAERS and other evidence-scant lawyer stuff from the early 00’s about vaccination.

Hold them to their words. Let them prove their original allegations and respond to everyone who disproved what they were saying, before allowing them to move the goalposts yet again.

@doomsday I am capable of understanding your statement but you’re incapable of understanding those papers. Read the article whose titled I posted twice. Just because a website claims that 157 research papers that show a link, does not mean there is a link. That website lied. Those 157 papers do not show a link. Fakhert. Many of those papers reinforce the idea that there is no link between immunization and autism. Like paper 41 of 157 for example. “Newborn screening for autism: in search of candidate biomarkers.” There’s literally nothing in the paper about vaccines, thimerisol, or anything else for that matter. The next paper “Altered urinary porphyrins and mercury exposure as biomarkers for autism severity in Egyptian children with autism spectrum disorder” deals with ethylmercury exposure. Ethylmercury isn’t found in any vaccine and never was. People may think it is because it bears a similar name to methylethylmercury, AKA thimerisol, but it’s a completely different compound.

Who lied now? Are there truly 157 papers that show a link or are there 157 random scientific studies that some science am-ha’aretz decided to throw out there claiming them to show a link?

@doomsday

I told you what to Google and what to look up to refute your claim that those 24 studies show that there is a link. You are ignoring my response and are continuing to ignore my question on thimerisol. Simple google “About Those Research Papers Supporting the Vaccine/Autism Link” to understand how @2cents was absolutely correct when s/he said that there’s no study that shows a link. So s/he did not lie, as I told you several days ago (which you ignored and proceeded to call me names).

You are an incredibly belligerent excuse for a human being. You have done nothing in this thread but use angry words and call people liars. You’ve been posting the same “proofs” over and over again and every time someone calls you out on it, you revert to some previous argument and pretend you didn’t hear it. I wonder what type of mench you are in real life. If anti-vaxxers are all like you, it’s no wonder Yeshivos won’t let them in irregardless of their opinion on data, science, and facts.

@doomsday

You asked me 3 times

“Did 2scents LIE when s/he stated that
there are NO Studies linking Autism to Vaccines?

And I answered several times with an unequivocal NO. Here is where

Studies on vaccines you might have missed.👨‍🔬💉🚫

Studies on vaccines you might have missed.👨‍🔬💉🚫

Let’s be clear: You are claiming that @2cents lied (or LIED! as you so eloquently like to put it) about studies showing a link between vaccination and autism. Your proof that s/he lied is that you found a website claiming 24 studies show that there is as link. I found different websites that refute the claim in the first website, and that people who think that those studies show a link are merely having difficulty understanding the scientific language used.

@username123321

You were literally just talking about how it’s standard Chabad practice to mention the name of Rav Schneerson ZT”L when davening so he can be a meilitz. That’s what I mean by “insert said leaders name into tefilos”.

And when I compared Chabad learning R’ Schneerson’s writings more in depth than Gemara I meant it too. Don’t try to compare him and his publishers to the Rambam and Ibn Tibn who had rishonim vet the publication and writings. R’ Scheerson, for all his gadlus, was no Rambam. And the Chabad rabbonim are no Rishonim.

Furthermore, although the Rishonim had kushyos on the Rambam, they never assumed that every word and letter choice was deliberate, l’havdil, like Chazal do on Chumash. Chabad, though, does give that treatment to R’ Scheerson’s random collections of letters collated and printed by various mortal people, many posthumously.

Whatever it is that Chabad does, however they daven, you should know that the place Rav Schneerson ZT”L has amongst them is unprecedented in all of Yiddish history. No one has ever proclaimed that a dead leader is an exclusive emissary from H”KBH, nor has anyone ever made it a minhag to insert said leaders name into teffilos. I don’t care how many Chassidishe seforim talk about “Nasi HaDor” or how many mekoros there are for a meilitz yosher, it’s a new, mudnehdikeh, thing that was invented by Chabad in 1996.

Is it avodah zora? Not for me to decide, others have already weighed in. Is it a new and strange custom with no basis in halacha or minhag that very strongly resembles certain issurim d’orayso? Absolutely.

@doomsday Myself and several other people have posted numerous refutations to the allegation that there are research papers “proving” the link between vaccination and autism. Futhermore, I did address your claim of fraudulent CDC studies.

@apushatayid Can’t speak for the others, but it’s a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine to argue a position I know I’m right about.

Not to disparage Yidden. Modern Orthodox Yidden are even more diverse than the Yeshivishe chevra.

That being said, there are definitely people who consider themselves Modox who believe in “Maddah U’Torah”, “Da’at Ba’al HaBus”, and “Da’at Yachid L’Heter”.

@doomsday

I did not lie. I did not say that there’s no way to analyze all the studies, nor did I refuse to answer your question.You told me to look for a site that claims 24 studies that link autism to immunization. As I am not a scientist, I cannot honestly tell you if those studies show what you claim. But I do know a little about science and can say that at least some of them do not come to the conclusions you claim they do. Good thing I also found a website of a real scientist that goes through each study individually and points out why the study was either invalid, or does not conclude what you claim.

Furthermore, you are consistently refusing to acknowledge that thimerisol, a major aspect of many of your studies, is an methylethyl mercury compound and not the dangerous kind of ethylmercury. Can you address that?

If you have a business or something that involves regularly printing on something other than paper, i.e. plastic or fabric, get a specialized printer for that because inkjets aren’t great at plastics either. If it’s not a regular thing, then just do your printing down at Kinkos/FedEx. The sub-$100 inkjet printers are a complete ripoff and there’s no reason to buy one over an more expensive laser.

@doomsday

I already responded to your post about “24 studies” with one of my own. None of those 24 studies do show a link between immunization and autism as you can see from searching for the phrase I posted or this one “About Those Research Papers Supporting the Vaccine/Autism Link”.

The idea that there is research showing a link besides the Wakefield study is a sheker that comes from people unfamiliar with scientific studies attempting to comprehend a scientific study. One major example of this am ha’aratzus is the one I keep bringing up: claiming that thimerisol (methylethyl mercury) is damaging to the human body just because it shares words in common with ethylmercury.

Other bits that showcase this lack of education are things like calling a cell-line “aborted baby fetus”, referring to preliminary studies showing possible correlation as evidence, and ignoring a lack of control groups.

@doomsday

You are doing what’s called a “Gish Gallop”. Posting dozens of pieces of evidence in order to overwhelm the person you are trying to debate because they will have to go through each one individually. I can respond in kind if you would just Google “124 (now 144) papers that DO NOT prove vaccines cause autism”.

Just reading the titles of the articles I know that the conclusion you are attempting to draw is a false and misleading one. Several articles specifically talk about heavy metal ethylmercury which has never been present in vaccines, unlike methylethyl mercury which is harmless. It’s a lack of scientific knowledge that causes people to confuse and conflate the two.

On another note, several articles are old and only show preliminary conclusions that essentially state “more data required”. More data has been gathered and newer studies were launched that showed the initial preliminary conclusions were incorrect due to a variety of factors.

My question is why the frum oilom, which relies so heavily on welfare and other federal MOIFSIM (מאדיקאר, וולפאר, פודסטמפ, סקשין אכט) programs are so overwhelmingly anti-Democrat which is the party that’s constantly pushing to increase these programs.