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CTL,
Is your statement factual or just an assumption?
Because you are accusing Rabbonim of having alternative reasons for their rulings.
Are masks risk-free?
No! Especially if you try to swallow them and they get stuck in your airway.
Most treatments, including convalescent plasma, have little to no effect when given late in the disease process.
Especially for sick and intubated patients, there has been almost no difference in outcome.
However, when given early, there has been a lot of good results. This is also why we are seeing less mortality these days as opposed to early on when these otherwise stable patients were only given supportive treatments.
crslkwd
ParticipantThere is a lot of natural stuff that is known to be beneficial, but the statements that you have made are inaccurate and not factual.
I hope that people are smarter than to trust an anonymous online blogger when it comes to medicine.
Are you willing to accept responsibility if anyone Ch”v has a negative outcome due to following the advice that you posted online?
crslkwd,
Dr. B is pushing holistic medicine which has no scientific backing.
He has many such ridiculous treatment regiments.
There are many alternative providers with many alternative claims and made up treatment regiments.
There are a number of patients that have tried this treatment that you have listed and ended up on a ventilator.
There are a number of treatment options for patients that are having respiratory symptoms. Including nebulizers (beta-agonists and steroids).
What I would say in a public forum, the hospitals are fully capable of handling COVID patients, they are not above capacity and some have good treatment protocols, with teams of providers that have enormous experience treating COVID patients.
There has been a lot of positive feedback from recent patients that were admitted. Depending on where you live, I would suggest that if you have problems with your breathing or your primary care provider believes that you should go to the hospital. Rather go earlier than later. There are a number of treatments that are shown to be successful in helping patients recover sooner which means less negative effects on the body.
Checked some of the states metrics, some areas had a spike with a positive rate of 3%, yet it has been stead for a while. in fact, it briefly was above 3%, hopefully it will just get better.
Charlie,
“I tried to raise frum support for Eliot Engel and got nowhere because he is a liberal Democrat. As a result, Israel’s biggest supporter in Washington is being replaced by an anti-Israel zealot.”
I think your making a very valid point, the question really is how can the Jewish voters unite and vote for the candidate that is aligned with our needs?
It seems that whatever has been tried has failed.
“2scents, 100% yes! If someone has the flu and mixes with other people that person is a rotzeach. I’m surprised you had to ask that question thinking it was a point to prove your argument. Pshita”
Shimon,
I was just curious to see if people have this sentiment about calling someone a killer only if they are sick with the Covid19 virus or also with other viruses.
I was not trying to make a point.
N0m,
“ He is the same vigorous yet modest leader, that he was then.”
You do know that a whole lot people question this sentiment and have a lot to go on.
N0m,
Your answering up for the major political candidates is insufficient. I guess the voters will have the last word on that.
“ At this time, words ring hollow.”
A. Its not just now but also during these events.
B. Words are powerful. Politicians openly backed these agitators.
N0m,
“ Do you really thing Joe Biden a politician who was not pro anarchy in the seventies, is supportive of these riots? (Or Harris?)”
What I think, does not matter. Its the action or inaction of the major politicians or major political candidates that matter.
Charlie,
Has trump pardoned any more people than any recent presidents?
n0m,
I will try to respond to your comments/statements.
Dear Two,
“A politician does not have to condemn every act of violence.”
When something as significant and has the effect that these riots and lootings had on the general public, politicians should step up and at minimum voice their opposition to this, otherwise, it seems as if they are for it, not against it.“1. When it happens on their watch.”
Yet a lot of Democratic politicians not only refused to condemn this, but they also backed these ‘peaceful protests’, But you can also add major politicians that are running for the highest political office in the country into the category that should have come out against it.“2. When it comes from their demographic.”
Black violence, what’s that?“Now, why does every political group have to come out and condemn all the violent unrest? Solving today’s conflicts, is a long and complex process. Why make it harder with endless condemnations that do not solve anything?”
Because rioting and hurting innocent citizens on such a grand scale should be condemned, protesting and hurting police officers should be condemned.
What is so hard to understand?
“Dear Two,
I do not get your point. What do you surmise from that?”
It gives the impression that they actually support these events.
n0m,
But there are political groups that have refused to come out and condemn these groups. At least not as much as the other side.
“If someone is positive for covid, and goes around without telling anyone, they are likely considered a murderer.”
Would you say the same for other viral illnesses such as the flu?
N0m,
“I am not a Democrat“
You might or might not be a registered democrat. Yet, your posts in general are supportive of the democratic party and its leaders.
Mrs Plony,
“2cents, please be nice. Reb Eliezer’s argument did have substance.”
Its great to have a decent discussion with a focus on substance and content, but I try to stay away from silly arguments such as this.
“Your post is not worth 2scents. ”
The content of his post was already addressed by another poster earlier.
The point about doctors having experience in infectious and disease, that is about assessing and treating not about how to control a pandemic. As has been evident by a lack of clarity from public and private health officials on what actions to do that would contain the virus, and despite taking a number of measures a lot of areas such as NY and EY have been hit extremely hard.
“(although you could have skipped the first line and still made the same point).“
Nope, then he would actually need to use substance as an argument when he prefers otherwise.
Mrs Plony,
“Have any of the people who refuse to wear masks asked their doctors for input?”
Doctors have a doctorate degree in medicine, not in mask-wearing. There are no COVID experts.
CTLawyer,
“Dina Malchusa Dina………………….”
So was the decree for the Jews not to learn Torah and to attend Achashverushes party.
Some look at the mask laws as decrees, when the government starts deciding who can and who cannot be open, what congregations are ok and what should be banned without scientific reasoning this seems more like a decree. When the government decides what is essential and is selective when creating rules, this is not ok.
“2scents, did you listen to the Woodward tapes?”
no.“Trump said one thing on tape and another in public.”
So what?“He recognized the deadliness on the tape but down played it in public showing that he knew all the dangers on February 7th but he did not do anything about it then.”
Are you saying that Trump is smarter than the average person? We all had access to the information that Trump had, yet because Trump felt that it will be worse than we all believed, he should have said so? What difference would that have made?
Major politicians (across both parties) have publicly downplayed the virus before it became bad.daniela,
“Trump failed and he should resign, and certainly not seek reelection. Compare with Bush.”
Why so?
Did he take action despite the heat from the democrats?
What actions should he have taken that would have made any difference?
Furthermore, if all the information was readily available for everyone why didn’t anyone speak up about the supposed actions that would have been effective?
Almost all the decisions were done on a state and local level, but I guess blaming the President is better for politics.
Reb Eliezer,
“Be honest and tell the truth”
a. Trump did not have access to information that was not available to regular citizens.
b. The economy stuff was all done on a state or local level.As of now, there is no action(s) that have been proven to be effective.
Jackk,
That’s why a 4 or 8 year term is a good thing. It limits the damage that any president can do.
“According to the Woodward tapes, Trump could have saved thousands by being honest early in February about the coronavirus and not down playing it for his fear of panic.”
Exactly what would Trump, or anyone else need to do to save lives?
Jackk,
“All the sanctions will accomplish is to make the Iranian people suffer. Nothing more.”
Or, it might convince the Iranian people to revolt, to choose a better life than the higher mission of destroying Israel.
“My point is that those who think that Obama was the Great Anti-Semite because he wanted to make a nuclear treaty with Iran and that Trump is a genius because he threw away the treaty have not been proven correct.”
Missing one keyword, yet. Have not YET been proven correct.
Some posters are just so predictable.
N0m,
Anything is possible.
N0m,
He had an officer in a headlock, taser was deployed yet was not effective. What else needs to happen to satisfy your minimum requirements for resisting arrest?
n0m,
In the tri-state areas especially the frum places, there is minimal mask wearing and no noticeable social distancing going on.
It has been like that for a few months.
N0m,
“ Why couldn’t the officers just leave?”
A. He assaulted an officer.
B. I believe it was reported he had an arrest warrant.
C. He had a weapon.
D. He was getting into a car with minors together with a weapon.Just a few reasons why they just couldn’t leave.
Health,
I am not sure why your asking me to do anything.
N0m,
No, but its a false assurance, as changes can happen rapidly and usually unnecessary for someone that has zero respiratory related symptoms.Does not seem like a contradiction to me.
ubiquitin,
I glanced at the chart, not everything is simple, this needs someone that is good at math and statistics. There are a number of differences between the two groups.
Meaning, HCQ is not the only difference between these groups.
I have not really been following this thread, but an interesting study on this topic.
TItle:
Use of hydroxychloroquine in hospitalised COVID-19 patients is associated with reduced mortality: Findings from the observational multicentre Italian CORIST studyConclusions
HCQ use was associated with a 30% lower risk of death in COVID-19 hospitalized patients. Within the limits of an observational study and awaiting results from randomized controlled trials, these data do not discourage the use of HCQ in inpatients with COVID-19.I have not yet read the actual study, aside from the abstract and the conclusion.
Also, it seems that they did focus on hospitalized patients and measured mortality.
Srivka,
“Hatzolah and Bikur Cholim (as well as many individuals) have pulse-oximeters that they usually can lend out”
I believe they are or were actually handing them out to anyone that needed them, these are cheap devices.
Health,
I am not going to argue on someones story/facts, especially when I am not privy to the actual details. I do not take my advice from random online posters. (we are all random online posters, including myself, always assume that any poster, despite their online persona is a nobody posting from their mothers basement).
Read the whole Post – Next Time:
“COVID-19 symptoms such as cough, fever, and(/or) shortness of breath.”That was my point, the advice is specifically for those with symptoms that include the respiratory symptoms, how mild they might feel it might be a good idea to do a pulse ox check. But not a blanket piece of advice for everyone.
Health,
“The title of this Topic is Covid Breathing – So why are you comparing it to the General Public?!?”
I am not understanding your question.“I think the American Lung Assoc. is off Base on this one.
There is No Reason NOT to do Home Pulse-Ox!”
The question was not if there is any reason not to do it, rather if there is any reason yes to do it. And if this is sound public advice. Some believe that yes.“If you are symptomatic that is a reasonable time to check your oxygen.”
What symptoms? Achy bones?n0mesorah,
“This report leaves us guessing as to what started the altercation. Arrest for open warrant? Trespassing? Just a disagreement? Insults? The big difference is why could he not just leave in peace. Even if this is to be the whole story, I would still disagree with you on both points.”
Why would it matter what and how the altercation started?
For argument’s sake, let us assume that the altercation was unjustified and could have been avoided at an earlier stage and diffused. At this point in the altercation, what other options did these police officers have?
You keep on mentioning that there is the potential threat of someone else who is not involved in the altercation that can shoot at the police, why do you believe this to be a considerable threat, has that yet happened. To me, this seems to be a suicide act, for someone to start shooting at three armed police officers.
“What is wrong with him getting into his car with his children with his knife? I carry a knife all the time. Is it against the law for me to have children in my car?
Fatal force is reserved only for life treating or some defensive situations. If your point is that the police were scared that he would attack his kids, that was my storyline. Nobody reported that.”
You really need this to be spelled out?
Carrying a knife, vs physically attacking police officers then holding the knife as they attempt to arrest you and disobey their orders to lay down the weapon (which you would are allowed to carry) is a considerable threat.
I am not sure if the officers were aware that these are his children or not., Or if this even makes any difference. They were faced with a situation if the suspect who is a known criminal ends up harming the children. Would it be on them?
You have yet to offer an alternative action that you deem would be appropriate for this exact scenario.
The sad part is, that anything that happens these days all sides try to use this to further they political narrative without caring about due process. Thus ruining due process, which is scary.
Syag,
“What were you refering to in your second response?”
To this
“There have been enough people with covid symptoms put on vents or compressed o2 due to low levels”
There have been so many people (all with good intentions) that have made a lot of public announcements, thus driving the public crazy.
Everyone is free to do as they see fit, But having a million people get pulse oximeters when in general people with no shortness of breath (or being out of breath or unable to walk around the room) or any other breathing symptoms will not have a lower than usual sp02 reading.
On the other hand, some people that had very good readings had a sudden decrease in saturations and deteriorated very rapidly.
It is not very clear as to the etiology of this. There are many theories.
Syag, those were usually associated with being out of breath with some exertion.
Syag,
“Thats a bit of a flippant response.”
I am not discounting anyone elses opinion, we are all entitled to our opinions, I have not done anything other than stating my opinion. You are free to do as you please and as you understand.
“What would be a reason not to use a pulse oximeter?”
Not necessarily any reason not to, but in general not necessary.
If we would do random EKGs on people in shopping centers, or other diagnostics, we would probably catch a few people with heart attacks or other stuff, but in general its not necessary.
From Yale Medicine.
Should you buy a pulse oximeter?
There is debate among doctors about whether or not people need a pulse oximeter in their medical supply kits at home. “In normal times, unless a patient has true lung disease, there is no need for them to use pulse oximetry monitoring,” says Denyse Lutchmansingh, MD, a Yale Medicine pulmonologist. But these aren’t normal times. The American Lung Association advises against buying pulse oximeters unnecessarily and recommends people focus their awareness on other COVID-19 symptoms. However, in a recent New York Times opinion piece, an emergency physician from New Hampshire said if resources were directed toward earlier detection of silent hypoxia, doctors could do more to keep those patients off ventilators.
At this point, Dr. Lutchmansingh says the benefits of pulse oximetry monitoring are most clear among patients who have COVID-19 symptoms such as cough, fever, and shortness of breath. “If you are symptomatic that is a reasonable time to check your oxygen. That is something we’ve been trying to do from an outpatient standpoint,” she says. “We have COVID-19 patients who we are monitoring at home and one of the deciding factors for bringing them into the hospital is their oxygen level.”
– Cough, Shortness of breath.
Syag,
That is not necessarily the case, a lot of patients were monitored at home (with respiratory symptoms, borderline sp02, oxygen concentrators) and a lot of them had a rapid decrease in sp02. This was usually not due to a gradual decline in oxygenation saturation.
OtherTzad,
Are you saying that you had zero breathing symptoms at the time?
Most people that had symptoms, had mild symptoms that did not correlate with the extreme low peripheral sp02s, but I do not think that they had zero respiratory symptoms.
Telling people who have aches and weakness not associated with exertion to keep on measuring their sp02, seems a bit too much.
Syag,
“Er docs said people walked in to the er texting and talking with oxygen levels below 60. For this reason”
Why did they present themselves to the ER?
As pointed out, some people have had extremely low oxygen saturations, which are usually only seen on extremely sick patients, such as those that are in severe respiratory distress and are nearing cardiac arrest (peri-arrest).
Some providers have reported talking to patients with sp02s of 30 and 40. And had a registered sp02 of zero on another patient.
This was new and crazy.
But I have not heard of people with zero respiratory distress or dyspnea with sp02s in the 60s.