Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
n0> Logic does not help one be objective. Compared to other forms of intelligence, it is more subjective…Sevorah in the Talmud does not mean the Logic. … A real learner really learns.
We seem to be using different definitions here and going circles. “explain yourself”, as the famous Logician – the Caterpillar – said to Alice.
ujm > The first one seriously learns for 10 hours; the second one seriously learns only for two hours, and is “battling” his other eight hours there.
I have two job candidates. One works hard the whole day and does not produce anything. Another – works great for two hours and then browses internets. Who would I hire? None of them. Why are your choices so poor?
Seriously, to the person who sits and sits and learns nothing. R Preidah who lived long had a student who required 400 repetitions to learn (note, he learned eventually). He might be better off going to work and having yissachar/zevulun parternship with someone. This is what someone who cares about this guy would suggest (one of the amoraim did this with his son who was not good at learning, then he tried to teach him business ..). If he has no other prospects and is financially secure, it is great if he sits and learns and gets his sechar – 1/400th of infinity is still infinity. Usual caveat – if he is using OPM (other people’s money) this would work only if there is a full disclosure to the donor, whether this is a private philanthropist or a taxpayer, and they are happy to fund his learning
n0, you are too vague or presume that I know what is in your head. what are these competing ideas? And, I presume, yeshiva teachers are learners, or former learners, and seminary teachers are either learners or wives of learners, or both. In which way, would they prepare them in a contradictory way and why?!
Gemora mentions, I think, R Yaakov who sent his son for a semester, then examined him and, after finding his learning lacking, told him to stay home and work the fields, and went to learn himself. He is them placed into a room with some nasty mazik that would kill anyone else – to clear real estate for the yeshiva, so he presumably had a good judgment. So, when you are suggesting that someone not learning much should sit in the yeshiva whole day – is he doing it at the expense of someone else who could use a stipend? Maybe someone who is working and learning, but a stipend will help him free a couple of extra hours a day for learning? Of course, if your community balabosim are supporting everyone who wants to learn, then it is not a problem.
As to those who learn 2 hours and don’t do much the rest of the day, those are worse of course, especially if they are paid to do that. But it is not a very good argument to say that someone is better than outright thieves.
n0 > Logical reasoning, is not a prerequisite for lamdus.
maybe we mean different things here. I am not saying knowing Aristotle or Godel, just being to reason according to facts. I think this is required. Gemora often refers to sevorah as an argument. Some say that one of the goals of Gemorah learning is to develop ability to overcome your own biases, whether personal preferences or group you belong to, and be able to argue as objectively as humanly possible.
There is a sevorah here: if there are multiple civilizations, then some of them will be more advanced than ours and they’ll figure out space travel and we would see something from them. An alternative is that they all ended somehow, whether in nuclear wars or floods, which seems to be supported by a midrash that Hashem created and destroyed worlds before ours
n0 > seminary does not prepare girls for what a learning boy is really like.
is the crisis especially acute in the learners’ corner? My theory is that boys need to become real learners, which is hard, while girls need to become inspired to marry learner, which is easier (become inspired, not being a wife of). Obviously, there will be more girls interested in marrying learners than the learners. Furthermore, this generates a demand for the second quality of learners who now can marry girls looking for learners.
ujm,
thanks for your psak. I presume a frum yid would not pasken it for himself. And asn0 says, there are possible differences here. Are there any written or oral or whispered teshuvos from that period? Also, interesting for WW2 generation.n0 > . The only solution would be for yeshiva guys to start marrying pre-seminary girls. It would also lead to better marriages.
Are you implying that earlier marriages will be better? or that seminaries make girls into worse brides?
First is very questionable, given lack of maturity in our timesyes, you can.
A question that has an easy answer as long as you wait enough.Would there be an SAT-type test for objective measure for learning? with 3 parts: Tanach, Mishna, Gemora … Something to put on shidduch resume.
Not sure what the argument is about but I agree on a possible difference of perceptions – Sephardim start with basics and do them well and even when learning Gemora focusing on peshat and practical implicatiosns, with Ashkenazim focusing on lamdus. Similar to a professor from my bubba’s lessons – why do I need arithmetic, when I am professor of calculus (she was evidently not a Brisker). This latter approach used to be controversial by Maharal, etc. Our time brought a new challenge when we have. Baruch Hashem, multitudes learning rather than just yachidim. I suspect lamdus goes with them as well as calculus with most of college students.
As to testing sugyos, I would suggest first test ability for sevorah, ability to reason logically, that is a prerequisite to any meaningful lamdus.
Glad to have a witness here. So, what was halachic advice at the time on what and how go through these things? If yeshivas were helping in some way, what was the basis for that?
interesting discussion. I suggest when there is a key number in these calculations like OTD rates – try to come up with several sources/way to compute it. Don’t trust one source that might be biased, but don’t dismiss it either.
for OTD rate – what is distribution by age? I resume teens, early 20s would be the time. If boys get married older, they might have more time to go OTD before marriage .. this might be a “good thing” preventing a family tragedy later or a good thing, preventing the OTD from happening.
My question still stands, jokes aside – who gave a heksher for this fishy behavior. I am not paskening whether one can or should get exempted from Nam, just asking who did. This might depend on whether one believes in domino theory, which seems to be back in vogue lately
The idea that we need more people @ FDA to have more formula is questionable. Biden just used pda to alleviate problems created by current FDA employees.
Some say on pesach: she lo asani Ashkenazi
ujm, are you by any chance a gilgul of Robespierre?
Previous discussions here convinced me that there is some basis for height due to current exceptional (Baruch Hashem) growth of the community and age differences. Numbers add up. The “fault” is, of course, on those same parents who have so many children – so they have themselves to blame 🙂 Also, modern public health and medicine that enables those babies to survive – and Medinos of Israel and other artzos that partially support those babies and keep sholom in the world so that boys are not drafted into dangerous wars…
There are though differences as birth rates and age differences are different at different sub-communities, so “modern” crisis may be 10%, while Neturei Karta 30%.
I also wonder whether drifts between and out of communities differ by gender? I presume girls are more conservative (and have less time by being younger) to change the community, so this can also contribute. For example, if some charedi boys decide to go work and start feeling second-class among their own and move into more modern circles, this will decrease modern crisis, but increase charedi.
Mod, you decide whether this should be a public or private post.
I noticed on Russia-related front page posts several posters provide in-your-face pro-Russian defences are posting 1st or 2nd time and were registered recently. This is a classic example of Russian paid activists that are active on web and social media all over the world. I wonder whether you or your provider provides any screening for such things (repeated IP and other simanim) to make your life easier. Possibly, you already rejected 1,000 of them and we see only a couple.
If this stays private, I’ll send specific links
If you send names we’ll delete them if they show up on this side
I suggest testing protocol for Covid and middos.
All these tuna-eating yidden, do you know whose daas Torah were they following?
Gadol, Gemora discusses that some would stay at the lecture and delay going to urinate leading to later problems. I don’t think it mentions what aspect is the problem. Modern medicine seems to be of the same opinion. I’ll spare you multitude of references not to delay your trip to the bathroom
When L Rebbe was paralyzed and moschihism was igniting, a local Rav called Rebbe’s secretariat and asked them how he can be of help in these difficult times. They asked him to publicize that this craziness is not coming from them. So, the Rav said it publicly. So, while this is not a direct testimony of what the Rebbe himself would think about it, but as close as it gets.
In our days, while Rashbi were quarantining in his cave, would be probably giving divrei Torah over zoom to the Meron hadlakah. Of course, he would be using Tor (sic!) to hide his location from Roman commissars.
Clearly, multiple wives exist on halakha, but what about real life?
Tosefta Ketubot 5:1 : R Tarfon engaged 300 women eat terumah during hunger. (on this note, one of my relatives engaged or faked marriages with several women to take them to the safer side of the war front during WW1)
Tosefta Yevamot – saus 2 families of cohanim come from tzaros
Yerushalmi Tevamot mentions R Yehuda HaNasi telling one brother to do yibum to 12 sisters-in-law
Agrippa
Raban Gamliel II (through yibum)Archeology: found a ~ 440 BCE ketubah saying that the husband agrees not to take 2nd wife
source: Goldfeder, Mark. “The story of Jewish polygamy.” Columbia Journal of Gender and Law, vol. 26, no. 2, 22 Oct. 2013,
second wife is discussed a lot as a (difficult) concept in Gemorah, true. We know a lot of personal information about amoraim. There are those who had happy and unhappy marriages; those who married early or late, or even did not. We have a daughter of rosh yeshiva who marries two best students (not at the same time). Are there any named yidden with two wives in Gemorah? Even Ahshverosh was happy with one Vashti.
MRS. SEMINARY GIRL
How do say oxymoron in Yiddish?
You never know even from direct testimony. One of the amoraim lost ability to have children from r Hunas long lectures without bathroom access, but maintained publicly that he already fulfilled the mitzvah.
Somehow I agree with syag when she chastised someone else 🙂 the lesson learned is that everyone fills in the blanks with assumptions. In this case, it was a simple fact, other cases might be more subtle and stay undetected, reinforcing biases even further. I was also confused by lack of a location, so suspended judgment until I saw the references.
I don’t suggest the boy to break shabbat at all. My first idea is to make it public by just coming there. Separate suggestion to do experiments that might be allowed might be wrong in this case when Muslims did not change the rules, so this became an issue of principle rather than pure melocha
For example, op presumes that one needs socks
You can’t patent this solution. A matrona tested it at the beginning of sotah and it didn’t work well. But it maybe not so much the precision of match needs to be relaxed, but what the features you are matching on. Some suggested here that tie for Mincha is a good siman, another rosh kollel told me that he had only one question – are mehutonim honest in business. Maybe rosh kollel takes tie for Mincha and being in business as obvious, and maybe your rav presumes that honesty is there and only the tie needs to be checked.
Moishe, could you try comparing death rates in USA v comparable countries during both presidents? That will tell you effect of each of them, if any. Same for vaccination rates.
Great kid. I wonder whether he could have gone there and just told them what to do so they felt bad about it. I guess it would be easier with questions rather than labs. Any chemistry would be mutar? Heating using a blech? Mix into food and drink? Might have worked for some experiments… Or just say there learning Mishna as a protest, maybe other kids would support him
Next we will have daf yomi at a stadium, has vesholom
Those who admire Rashbi and aspire to emulate him in avoiding derech eretz, should recall whether they were able to stay in quarantine for two weeks eating just carob
Akuperma the way I read this interaction, Chazon Ish was explaining his community building approach, referring to the rambam’s suggestion to move to the midbar if there’s no decent town to live in. There was nothing about caves, you are taking it too far.
Sherpa
> if you are first a big person in learning, politics will not affect your halachik jurisprudence.
politics was never easy and there were places/times to stand tall or compromise. For example, R Yohanan b Zakkai successfully asked Vespasian for what could have been saved – and dreaded later in life whether he made a mistake and could have asked for more … Chofetz chaim successfully ran away from Soviet Russia and later regretted that he, and other Rabbis, abandoned remaining Russian Jews
what are world classics that we think Jewish kids should/could read and which ones they should not?
keep in mind not just what is talked about in current America – as a lot of classics (such as Mark Twain) is already banned in USA.this approach of first having gov mess things up and then use the crisis to blame others and take more power is not unique to baby formula. for example, Obama switched student loans from private to federal programs “to save money”. Now, the government has power to “forgive” those loans on our behalf.
you can make 8-minute daf into 16 or 4 minute if you play it at different speeds. Playing at 1.5x speed seems to work better for my mind for a normal speaker, as I have less time to go into other thoughts.
If you don’t know whether to trust the producer, take a topic that you know well and listen on that topic and see how he stands against what you already know. If you are concerned about political slant, take a topic that you know that touches on that item. There is a story about I don’t remember who, who was asked whether a certain sefer on Chumash is kosher. He opened it briefly in 3 places and said – no it is not. How did he know? He opened in places where Chumash hints to Olam Habo (Yaakov buried, etc). In all places, the author chose not to discuss the issue, so he does not believe in it (a typical type of kefira at the time)
jackk, missing facts seem to be: FDA blames manufacturer, manufacturer does not see their fault, nothing was found. Investigation was going for 3 months. FDA did not see to realize or warn superiors what it means to close a major plants for 3 months.
Bigger issue – states issue discounted one-supplier contracts leading to industry consolidation, so that one plant closure is catastrophic.
I also hear an interesting argument repeated by the libs, up to Pelosi – historically SC ignored previous decisions “to expand liberties” and this is somehow part of the founders’ wisdom. But ignoring it to “decrease liberties” is unheard of! In other words, we can do it, but you can’t. A very entertaining idea.
Avira, looks like my position is slightly different from the Rav you are quoting. I simply think we should not get involved into controversial topics where our stakes are low and controversy is high. For example, fighting Nazis was somewhat controversial in US but was important for us and also very clear morally. Advocating for Soviet Jews was important for us, clear morally, and while opposed by some commies, did not really intrude on most Americans. Supporting civil rights in the 60s was reasonable morally, but ventured into controversy and while satisfying some, lead to mixed results (as I heard from people who participated). In this case, this is a very peripheral issue for our community (possibly affecting an Alabama Chabad House), very controversial, and with somewhat mixed morality. So, I would simply stay away. I do admit that other positions are possible (except rabid defense of abortion for the sake of liberal dogma which is disgusting).
jackk> They will have to rule on the legality of cases coming from all 50 states.
I did not study this close at all, as I feel that the issue is so controversial and not germane to our role in society – that Jews should stay away from this in politics. But it seems to me that the Supremes are moving towards decreasing federal role in these cases. So, they are not going to rule on legality, but simply defer to states. In modern Us, some issues, like slavery and discrimination, see so outrageous that the country is not willing to tolerate individual states having separate policies. But on abortion, the country seems to be far from agreement … So, after we will have states fully developing their positions, then it will be possible to see viability and morality of those positions and, hopefully, there will be some conversion of positions across states over time – something Roe prevented. It may actually be good for liberals that conservatives will be less motivated to get to elections and vote in order to approve conservative Supremes.
Do any kids read any of world classics, whether at school or not? And if yes, what is your secret?!
Avira, it is possible to not want to impose halakha in US politics, and respect constitutional restrictions and federal/state issues. I am not sure where the boundary is. On some issues, I feel like we should try to improve the world, on others to stay away. Maybe different people feel differently about specific issues.
jackk, reposting gov propaganda without critical reading makes us suspect that you are posting from North Korea. WSJ is already writing that the case involves some heavy-handed gov regulation. I am not convinced everything they mention is true, but you may want to read that before posting and somehow integrate the information.
In my humble industry experience, every D- administration unleashes all kind of auditors and regulators swarming around businesses, trying to claw back money here and there, generally behaving like Chinese commissars that businesses need to apologize to them for doing something at all and thank them personally for the favor. During early Obama times, it was so ridiculous, that Congress got involved and slashed funds for some of those regulators and suddenly you start getting occasional email from a far away office instead of menacing visits from a local one (that got downsized). So, without knowing exactly who drank the formula, I would suspect gov first nd business second.