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Someday, thanks a lot for this connection. It sounds true, but I recall that R Yehuda was introduced to the person who was X generation from Hillel, XX from Ezra, so it sounds more literal than what you suggest. Is this also in Kiddushin, can’t find it right now somehow. Maybe time to sleep . will wake up when daf Y comes to this sygya
I looked at mitzvos mentioned in Shema, and this is strange: nobody relies on OOT Rav putting tefilin instead of him, or a mezuza or wearing tzitzis, but somehow “shinantem levanecha” davka has to be outsourced to a local school at least, but better to a far away towm – until the kid is able to fly onhis own and go to another country.
More seriously, when Bava Basra goes through educational option: fathers teaching is preferred, but did not work consistently. Sending to Yerushalaim (i.e. best, most kodesh and inspiring places) also did not work for many. OOT yeshivas is 3rd option – but teens did not listen to the teachers. Last and accepted option was to teach small kids locally.
Furthermore, there were always differences in styles: In EY, kids would learn first (locally) and then marry (so not to be distracted). In Bavel, kids would marry first and then go OOT (not to be distracted) to learn.
PS maybe davening late was the way to make people stop saying T.
I agree w/ Avira, this seems to be more than davening late, more not wanting to spend time on the sad issues and get to the tish faster. You can see this from various communities coming up with various ways to avoid T. Now, in normal circumstances, who would come out and change a thing like that. But as chassiddim were changing a lot of things anyway, T was diminished along the way.
> The final word on Moshiach from the meisim (hopefully!)
Let’s “dissect” this title. It is ambiguous. It can have a weird meaning of The final word from the meisim on Moshiach. And does hopefully mean that Moshich is hopefully dead, or that messim will hopefully speak on Moschiach, or that messim will hopefully say the final word and leave us alone after that. Totally unclear.
Now, tell me – how could a peson not being able to dissect either a frog or a sentence, suddenly be able to explain to us which Menachem will be Moschiach.
Avira > poster only made a few glaring errors; his post wasn’t full of misspellings and non existent words, because that would have made the joke too obvious
This is in the eye of the beholder. My first reaction was: this is funny, but overdoing it a little…
> The Torah only crowd has been largely silent,
Shtika k’domya maybe? Or, probably, most did not see it much different from what they usually read in letters from the schools?
a story – not 100% related, I once used a early prototype for text-to-speech software to call my Teacher in Lakewood on Purim. The voice was quite robotic, but people did not know yet that such thing exists. Rebetzin picked up the phone. My robot was able to maintain a conversation for a couple of minutes. When I got bored of that, I explained the trick to her and asked how she did not find this person strange. She said “we have all kind of people calling any day of the year, I stopped wondering”.
> The members of Sanhedrin must know all 70 languages.
Rabban Gamliel had same number of Torah learners as of Greek learners supported by his household. Not sure whether each group was exclusive in their studies (does not make sense that some will mevatel Torah learning), or jut different majors and future professions.
Reading WSJ articles on related topics and, especially, comments to these articles, might be useful to some. It is usually clear how to separate posts by seasoned professionals from ignorami. Anyone who reads this forum could do that.
> how would the Rabbi know which one is better?
from tosfos.
maybe babysitter crisis is co-mingled with the shidduch crisis? With such tremendous growth, B’H. Bli ayn hara, there are less of 12 yo babysitters than of 1 year babies, so babysitters charge more.
And, there are less of 20 yo morahs (mothers of those babies), so they can charge more for teaching 12 yos who babysit 1 yos, and thus can afford paying more to babysitters.
And there are less of 40 yo parents of 12 yo and they are all, B’H, learnt well not to use pieces of aaaron Kodesh to sweep the floor, so they can’t afford to pay the 20 yo morahs who teach 12 yos who babysit 1 yos, and that is where the crisis meets Reb Ponzi C. Gadya.
I thought that milk problems with CY are in part due to heimishe logistics: milk might lack proper refrigeration somewhere along the way, maybe between trucks, something bigger companies can do better.
The idea that some companies put a later date might explain the perception that it spoils before or at the date while others do not. I do not know whether it is true, but if it is, this carries a great lesson for everyone: in an attempt to mislead the buyer, a producer is destroying reputation of his brand
This is my favorite line for people who support government control of education “because it is so important”. I contend that food is more important, therefore, we should have private school and public grocery stores. Of course, my dreams/nightmares are coming true as free schools expanded into free food. I wish I could afford that …
Emunas > Chabad does NOT have a monopoly on Kiruv,
First, they, rightly, are not using this a little snobby word. But true, historically, many Rabonim interacted with less observant, say, R Salanter.. But in last couple of generations, nobody was paying much attention to hilonim, reformim, rusim… jut trying to protect themselves from bad influences. Some now have organizations that do this, and this is great, but most people are not involved. Like in ~ 1990, in many shuls, there were collections for EY and lots of people helped ( I tracked down one of my relatives through a wedding announcement that listed donations for EY ..).
Do mispalelim nowadays put $ into a designated pushka for “kiruv”? I did not see that.Thanks everyone for lots interesting stories and ideas in this thread, with (relatively) little flames! A lot of them are hard for me to fully appreciate .. and I am afraid – for most of you also, despite everyone’s full confidence. Several people kindly replied to my previous remarks, but it seems I failed to make my point. Maybe a couple of chess-players here will understand this: if you played after spending some times trying to be good at this game, you to some degree know where you stand: how good you are, and what is your limit, and what are your strong and weak points … Imagine Samuel Reshevsky (who was one of the best in the world, give and take a couple of other Yidden), and someone tells him in learning – your sevorah is not good … he would probably need a serious proof for that. So, my question for everyone discussing esoteric concepts here – do you have any objective proof that you have great mental capacity to know what you are talking about?
Maybe an SAT score, or Calculus 3 grade, or chess rating, or NYT cross puzzle winning streak, please do. I am not saying you should do any of that nonsense, but I’d like to get some credentials – so that I know who to take seriously in this thread.> Okay it’s a mitzvah. So is putting a fence on the porch. But why are we so consumed with it? Why is learning Torah so critical?
Are you still sleeping when you daven “vetalmud Torah keneged kulam”? In truth, there is one little thing that comes before that – middos that are not a mitzva but a prerequisite for them. But I should not quoting from the kabbalists or AAQ will make fun of me.
So, in my simple terms, it should be very simple:
you come to register for Chassidus 101 class at 770 university, or to Nefesh Chachaim 101 at Lakewood U, and it says – 1 semester introductory course, with only one prerequisite:
shisha sidrei Mishna 101 with amoraim, rishonim, and achoronim.You go back a page and try register for shisha sidrei Mishna 101, it says – a short course, 7.5 years minimum, with only one prerequisite: Pirkei Avos 101
You go back a page and try register for Pirkei Avos 101, it says – short 1 semester course, lab – 40 years, pass/fail, grading not on a curve.
n0 > That is the proper attitude of a talmid for a rebbe. Everything the rebbe says is unequivocally the Word of the Torah. (A wise student knows not to retain everything as is.)
This is not what some Tanna thought in pirkei avos – a sponge is a first option mentioned for those who sit in front of chachamim, but not the preferred.
Anybody knows what Rav Yehuda said about yichus from Ezra?
Read a new (” new to me”, as my youngest kid says) on the mother bird – the reward is the same as parents as the connection is some sort of respect to the mother. While, respect to your own parent is easier to rationalize as you personally owe for the hours spent diapering you, respect of the unrelated to you mother-bird should make us think of the value of motherhood. Basically, the well known Jewish maxim “every day is Mother’s day” is from this posuk.
Avram > I wish it were so.
I am not saying that there are no people getting in trouble in college. I am saying there are multiple known ways to deal with it, both practically (Jewish colleges, local colleges, online, Israeli, etc) and philosophically (either focusing on technical stuff or reading Jewish books on whatever topic is studied in college). R Twersky Z’L recommends yeshiva students to learn physiology (not in the yeshiva, afterhours) to appreciate Hashem’s creation, not being concerned that physiology will leaed someone OTD
> More than just training you to think truthfully.
But it would is a good first step to aspire to achieve before moving forward to kabbalistic concepts.
qwerty > Studying Gemara is a tool to train one in acquiring a sense of truth.
I am all with you here. So is Maharal .. that is why a mis-use of Talmudic approach, such as quoting things out of context or quoting only things that support one’s POV is a meaningless exercise. Sometimes, we all start arguing using “first amendment” reshus for expressing an opinion as string as possible and leaving it to the opponent to disprove. this shows that surrounding culture sometimes affects minds more than leaning in beis midrash
Ruzhin was hidden? I believe Ruzhiner was known for showing off his wealth.
> I may even hint to you who that baal tefila was.
singing lecha dodi is not litvish, but so is signing loshon hora
Sqrt, thanks for the quote from Alter. Note that st his time, secular studies were associated with Maskilim who used it to prove how science disproves religion, and leading to assimilation. We have found ways to deal with these issues already
Rbzs, you are the lucky one. Most of is here not just dissecting, but butchering sentences daily
Melech David had an army, was he wrong?
We see what happens in the middle east in the last 50 years. Hazen Ish didn’t. Thinking that yishuv would have survived Arafat, Hafez Asad, Aytollahs, ISIS is not very believable..So if we agree that some army is needed, form the one that will do the job properly if you are not happy with tzahal
Were previous ggeneration continuously arguing who is or is not Moshe of that generation? Any Rashis about his generation? Well, maybe those generations were not as connected as ours, so if MoMoshe was Teimani, Rashi may not have known him .
.
Maybe Rambam eventually was called equal to Moshe, but I do not recall him hinting to that in his writings.CS, I am not complaining about the references, I am wondering whether people feel qualified to discuss these issues if they cannot predict tomorrow’s stock market or weather
Many people discuss lofty passages from Zohar or Tanya, but how do we know they know what they are talking about?
Maybe demonstrate your abilities by publishing a sefer of chidushim in nigle, or invent something, or at Least publish a paper explaining problems in einsteinian physics. If you didn’t do any of these yet, how can I trust your opinion on the important issues thrown around in this threadIf a yeshiva kid insists on a certain shirt 👕 brand, you don’t have a shirt problem, but a kid and a yeshiva problem
Financial literacy is indeed important, but is hardly achievable without basic English and math 🧮 skills. And a job that provides finances to manage.
My suggestion would be to first test a kid or adult for their level using assessment sites, such as IXL, and possibly remedy using khan academyAll this talk is cheap. Torah has a very simple way to see if someone is a Navi: let him make a prediction (within certain limits) and if it comes out, he is a real Navi…
This sounds too easy: out of 100 rebbes, predicting next year stock market or pandemic, one might end up being true, how is this test even practical?!
The answer is probably that the nearby posuk says that punishment for a false navi is death penalty, so you got to be pretty sure to make a claim. So, whoever’s Rebbe passes this test, we should all follow!
Every art was modern at some point. It didn’t change since.
I am also under general impression that it easy easier under Muslims than in Europe. And during crusades, Jews generally supported Muslims in EY … but if you ask Sephardim who lived there, they have mostly negatives to remember. And by these theories, Sephardim should be the most anti zionist, but I am not aware of such outside of old yishuv. Did you ever see a Syrian Jew who misses Asads, or a Iraqi who went back to Great isis?
Some goal posts:
Teachers I know charge the amount that will fit parents budget so that the kid will learn.
You might also consider paying more than going rate from your tzedoka money.
3-5 times more per hour than reasonable yeshiva
tuition divided by number of hoursOf course, rankings are not the full story bur they are indicative of something … touro Grad school is
140 In ot, 120 pt, 230 speech
Yu 62 in social work, 69 law 194 psychology
Undergrad 67 overallAgain, this is not to say that touro/landers are right for some, but schools are in different leagues
Avira, my kids are not at yu at all, so they are not seeing goyim there, my information is second hand. In this case, just responding to theoretical ideas.
As to that, a couple of my kids took online religion class from a goyishe college, with my running 🏃♂️ commentary and, I think, benefited from that. I have a psak for this before I am told that this is worse than having a TV 📺.
Will these guys assault some yu kids? I presume someone is monitoring the situation, and that’s why it is a pilot
Qwerty, good comparison. Is r Perachia not criticized for being too strict to his student while he was not beyond the pale yet?!
I think both sides are losing the debate here. Just by making such issues the focus of your relationship to Hashem or by trying to bring up every little idiocy your slightly meshugene neighbor have done in his life. Can we all just get along?
Qwerty is behind the times. Not the office, ohel
So conclusion on the TV seems to be that it may be OK for some. I would just quibble with the rationale: it is not like matiring drugs to an addict, but simply acknowledging that a mature person who watched it for 60 years and maybe even knows how to extract information from it l, can continue watching it. Same in this generation, an yid who works in politics or stock market may get a eter to watch Bloomberg terminal and wsj …
I am shocked, shocked that I am learning details of these books right here on ywn especially from posters looking down at others for various hashkafic issues… maybe need a trigger warning
I understand some did teshuva already. I am thinking if you are spending time ⏲️ on goyishe literature, why not read something more mature.
I think some gemoras put down Aramaic as an impure mixture v pure languages like Greek. Maybe in discussion on what language are kosher for megilah reading
Could it be not just lack of numbers, but quality ? Lomdus subpar, job prospects nonexistent? Girls are looking for someone who can support the family and lead it, are all the boys ready ?
Concerns about evangelical love are justified, and historically many Philo semites turned into anti when we didn’t play along, from Hadrian to Luther.. still it is way more comfortable to complain from your current position than from catholic Spain or from soviet Russia. We need to acknowledge the positives while staying vigilant.
R Soloveitchik was for dialogue and cooperation on practical matters, but not on theology. Even when catholics decided to overturn their anti Jewish positions in 1960s, he suggested not to cooperate: it is their own problem and they are dealing with it.
On the other hand, straight teaching our position may be different, despite the gemoras ^. we are well past septuaginta, protestants allowed everyone to learn Bible 500 years, and nowadays anyone can read artscroll gemora with meforshim.
I am not saying that this easily justifies any particular interaction, but it at least opens a discussionLots of interesting opinions but underlying facts are still unclear.
Could someone find a syllabus for these classes at least? Fluffy articles about the program may just be writer’s opinionsI think Avira is right about mishna berurah. I understand that it was Chofetz Chaim intention to create a uniform halacha for modern times
I believe that women follow their mother’s minhag in women specific mitzvos such as candles 🕯. But overall an kind of difference is a potential source of irritation, so it may be a good idea to be more accepting, doing it during shiduchim may be too late if a person was taught at school that chasidim sleep late and working boys don’t learn …
I think the difference in our time is that everyone has a siddur and can read, so noone is relying on the Schatz. I don’t remember where I read this.
We shouldn’t be too proud of ourselves, of course. The reason everyone can read in shul is because those who can’t read simply don’t come..