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Well, I think he defended himself. Not sure why you think it was okay to attack him.
Is defending yourself the same thing as getting defensive?
Avi K, I once asked a Lubavicher chossid if he’s really mitztaer. He responded that he’s mitztaer that he’s not mitztaer. I told him he can do that in the succah.
The point remains that even they don’t believe minhag trumps halachah; they think it is correct l’halachah.
They’re countable, just that a human being isn’t capable of counting them?
Why don’t you tell us about it and what lesson is relevant today.
If it were k’neged halachah, it wouldn’t have a valid mekor.
The klapping is not considered a hefsek.
What do you mean, “again, and again, and again”? Is it possible to count how many times?
Sam, it would be rov of the slurpee.
Nothing to do with eruv tavshilin, right?
Chazal determine which melachos may be done on chol hamoed, and they said it’s muttar.
In this case, the Biur Halachah (and possibly the Aruch Hashulchan) are misrepresented.
Okay, I did not say that he is unreliable or that he was telling a lie.
Of course not. In my second paragraph, I was just explaining my objection to a previous post (not yours).
SDD, correct. They only should if they can’t hear it (live, not on the phone) from a man.
Pashtus, al pi din they are mechuyavos to answer.
Some rishonim (and the Vilna Gaon paskens this way) hold if three women eat together they are obligated to make a zimun, but we don’t pasken that way (see Biur Halachah).
What’s wrong with women making a zimun for themselves? It’s a b’feirushe din in Shulchan Aruch (O”C 199: 6) and I haven’t seen anywhere that there should be a problem.
If anyone has a source otherwise, let’s hear.
WS, the author is a well known gaon whose seforim are accepted. It’s not difficult to research.
He may simply be retelling a legend or for some other reason is not being literal, but calling him unreliable and the story a lie is out of line.
BTW, ZD, pizza shops not opening on Motzaei Yom Tov was discussed here:
Popa had a lot of company over Yom Tov.
Considering the chavivus of eating chometz after Pesach,
and the chavivus of pizza,
and dividing the time by the amount of hungry people being fed, I don’t think it’s fair to call it a waste of time.
No, not really. The term usually refers to “The People of Israel”. It would not be incongruous, for example, to say that some of klal Yisroel davens Ashkenaz, some of klal Yisroel davens Sefard, etc.
What do you mean?
Alas the ones here were not open and you have to wait until today to get the Pizza.
Unfortunately, that had to be instituted in some places because it was too hard for the hechsher to police the management from cheating on the zmanim.
We rushed to get Dunkin Donuts last night.
The inyan of getting chometz on Motzaei Pesach is actually to show the chavivus of Pesach, that we refrain from chometz only because it’s Hashem’s will, despite the fact that we like chometz. Some have the minhag of making havdalah on beer.
We got pizza last night (popa never showed up, so I had to go out on my own), but we didn’t rush – it was a good motivation to turn back over quickly.
The statement that a minhag trumps halacha is a bit misleading.
It’s not only misleading, it is dangerous. It allows people to think chas v’shalom that halachah can be violated at whim, as long as it’s called a minhag.
Most people have the minhag from before the war. It’s not a chumra that I’ve seen individuals take upon themselves. I’m sure there are some, but it’s a small minority. So, they are not allowed to change, in most cases.
Besides, your assertion that it affects anyone else is baseless. You even reported that you found the cheaper gebrokts cookies in your store! The companies which I’ve seen make them, Streit’s and Manischewitz, make them in huge quantities, so the price isn’t affected upwards by the competition.
Mw13 ably demonstrated that your logic (which is wrong anyhow) could precisely be used to show that there should only be non-gebrokts sold, which again, you never rebutted.
Zdad, why do you still hold of your opinion when you’ve been demonstrated to be wrong?
I’ll note that you haven’t yet answered my simple question: do you think the people who have a minhag to eat gebrokts should abandon their minhag?
FNY, the part where he says that under typical circumstances, hataras nedarim doesn’t work? (It only works if he has permanently moved to a place where the minhag is to btok, or if it wasn’t a minhag in his family for generations.)
Why isn’t the sefer referred to above reliable?
if it were even a chashash of true chametz chassidim wouldn’t eat it on the last day.
If it weren’t a chashash, they would be allowed to eat it even on the first seven. It is a slight chashash, so they don’t eat it on the first seven, which are d’Oraisa, but the eighth day is d’rabbanon.
The teshuvah I linked from R’ Moshe Feinstein makes the point that if there were no legitimacy whatsoever to the minhag, it wouldn’t be binding (he is referring to what the questioner seems to say was a minhag to not eat gebrokts even AFTER Pesach), but if there’s even a very slight chashash (which there is), the minhag is binding.
The relevant quotes:
????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ???”? ????? ?”? ??”? ??”? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????
and
???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????, ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ????? ???”? ???? ??”? ??? ???? ????? ?????
Putting aside LW/RW, there were certainly posters too quick to assume that there were personal attacks.
Benignuman, yes. I thought you meant muttar to cook.
Thank you, NC.
It should also be noted that the eitzah of being mattir neder is not at all poshut.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=919&st=&pgnum=367&hilite=
Because someone who eats gebrokts is allowed to eat non-gebrokts, but someone who doesn’t eat gebrokts doesn’t eat gebrokts.
Can you please buy a few extra and bring them here?
Who’s using their minhag as an excuse to hurt others? They’re just trying to keep their minhag.
Honestly, I don’t know if hataras nedarim is the solution to the gebrokts issue or not, but if in-laws are so selfish that they won’t accommodate their children’s minhag, there’s a much deeper issue than gebrokts.
By that logic you would be allowed to drive on the second day of Yom Tov because it’s a d’rabbanon and cars weren’t invented.
Isn’t it wonderful, though, that there’s such a wide selection of treats that are gluten free for those who can’t tolerate gluten?
That’s how minhagim develop – people take on a valid chumra, and when the underlying reason becomes null, the minhag remains. There’s nothing silly about it.
(I’ve seen the hakpadah on keilim which fell in the floor and can only guess at the origin, and don’t know if it has the status of a minhag.)
I don’t think anyone disregarded the person, just the baseless argument. I feel bad if someone can’t see that.
Gamanit, the point I’ve been making is that the minhag isn’t to treat it as chometz, the minhag is to treat it as a chashash chometz, and therefore to rely on factors which are shittos brought in poskim which we otherwise (on real issur) don’t pasken like.
Ubiquitin, so you’re saying that keeping minhag is silly? I don’t get it.
Gebrochts is not more chamur than tarfus. Therefore, if the keilim have not been used for hot Gebrochts within 24 hours, it is mutar.
You’re not allowed to cook in treif pots.
Apushatayid, under any definition, he hasn’t demonstrated it.
I haven’t gotten an answer I like.
I was thinking either along your lines (12 months isn’t precise anyway, so since here we have a set amount of time which is close, it’s good enough), or that this is the way the minhag developed because you’ll never have keilim which are b’nei yoman (used for gebrokts within 24 hours).
It doesn’t.
The halachah is that you’re allowed to say a brachah for a minhag (e.g. Hallel, menorah in shul).
bump
They were gozer k’sivah, and if typing had a din k’sivah, it would be assur.
I agree with yekke2’s response. Sorry, Utah, but I don’t think your reply changes the validity of his points.
I’ll just add that the fact that people you know who had library access “turned out fine” is not a very good argument, on many levels. For one, even granting that they wouldn’t have turned out even finer had they not gone to the library (which I don’t), it’s still not okay for kids to read what they shouldn’t.
And that is really sad. That people think they dont live in a vaccuum and that their actions do not affect other people
That’s not what is going on here.
You even gave an example of a woman who hurt nobody but herself in your famous (and difficult to understand) paper towel story.
You have not convinced anyone that keeping gebrokts imposes a hardship on anyone else (because it doesn’t).
Simple question: do you want people whose minhag is not to eat gebrokts to abandon their minhag and eat gebrokts?
It all depends on what constitutes “might be chometz”. There are different degrees of possibility, and you can’t lump them together.
At this point, it’s considered more of a minhag than a chumra, but based on a time when there was a possibility, which meikar hadin we don’t need to be concerned about, which nevertheless some were machmir on. Some never took the chumra to the full extent, and relied on certain lenient factors which would not be acceptable for axreal issur.
Now, some have the minhag to be machmir even though we grind the wheat better and have thinner matzah, and they keep the minhag as their ancestors kept it when there was a (remote and not halachically binding but real) possility of chometz.