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I have heard that even if your “family minhag” is to eat inside, this is a minhag ta’us and you should eat in the sukka.
I have heard the same. This seems to be the classic litvish approach.
I have heard that the whole reason for the chasidim not eating in the sukka on Sh”A is that in Europe it was freezing cold
Yes, Aruch Hashulchan.
Nice to see you chofetzchaim!
Popa, I don’t assume you mean in a case of severe pain as well. See R’ma E.H. 5;19 that although the Halacha is that it’s always muttar, in a case of extreme pain, the Minhag is to keep the Chumrah to abstain.
It’s the improper balancing, and maybe the consideration of death, which is a shtus, but even for human benefit, we don’t disregard the animal’s pain entirely.
I hope this answers some other posters’ replies to me as well.
Classic popa shtus.
Oomis, it’s a b’feirush’e halachah in Shulchan Aruch.
Interjection, I think you are confusing halachah with minhag (as I understand your post; maybe you can explain).
Syag, when unnecessary, being in a challenging situation is assur, not just Minhag.
Sam, nisht didn’t invent the phrase. It’s an old Yiddish idiom (and idioms aren’t supposed to make sense).
Halacha: don’t overcharge your customer
Minhag: to charge whatever you can get
Chumrah: to overcharge but call it a sale
Shtus: the shiur at which the mekach is chozer
Yes, it happens sometimes, someone can’t post normally.
So they generate random posts and threads.
FriendInFlatbush, succah on Shmini Atzeres is halachah.
My list:
Halachah: not drinking pig’s milk
Minhag: waiting six hours between meat and milk (for those who follow R’ma)
Chumrah (a tough one, because one man’s chumrah is another’s halachah): making kiddush only on unsweetened wine
Shtus: calling pba’s posts shtus
I don’t know that all vegetarianism is apikorsus, but I understand why someone might think so; it’s more than mere stupidity. Rishonim say (IIRC, there’s a Rashb”a) that someone who doesn’t believe in the words of Chazal is an apikores. Now, if Chazal’s value system was such that human need takes priority over tzaar baalei chaim, and someone comes along and says no, we gave no moral right to benefit from something which causes tzaar to an animal, I think he is a kofer b’divrei Chazal.
Yes, Chazal believed in being compassionate to animals; in fact, tzaar baalei chaim is d’Oraisa according to many. It has its parameters and limitations, though, and one who thinks he has a moral standard higher than Chazal, I think, is an apikores. Some forms of vegetarianism do claim a higher moral standard than Chazal, and that’s much worse than being stupid.
Ah… sorry for the false (implied) accusation.
Is there any way you could make separate accounts, so we know to whom we’re talking?
If I were wearing a skirt, I wouldn’t want to leave the house either.
Mazel Tov!
R’ Moshe seems to asser puzzles if there’s any chibur (attachment) whatsoever. This teshuvah (O.C. 1 – 135) is quoted by Shmiras Shabos K’hilchoso (16 – 23, 62) and Orchos Shabbos (15 – 13, 23). R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach is similarly quoted as being machmir.
In fact, some others have seemed to ignore tzar baalei chaim; why aren’t you pestering them?
Nobody is ignoring tzaar baalei chaim, just putting it into perspective. If you would check the sources (I’ll provide if you’d like) you would see that tzaar baalei chaim is muttar for human benefit.
Rabbi Moshe Feinstein forbade production of milk-fed veal calves because of tzar baalei chaim concerns.
Interesting. Can you source that please?
Lol DaMoshe. Come to us for shalisheedis, I’ll make sure to have some delicious schmaltz herring for you. 🙂
It’s probably harder for conservatives, who preach to a higher moral standard.
There’s a website called “Kosher Near Me”, where you can search for kosher restaurants within a chosen mile range of any zip code.
They have iPhone and Android apps as well.
The Gemara stresses the importance of a teacher being precise.
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I think ZD makes a good point. If someone abstains from meat because he feels that the specific manner in which livestock is treated today is cruel, that’s different than if someone feels that killing an animal for human consumption is immoral.
I know a Rov who did the same thing.
If he did it under the same circumstances as the story I mentioned, I think you should post his name so we all know who not to ask shailas to.
Ignoring the suffering of animals is not in accordance with the Torah.
Neither is abstaining from meat for moral reasons.
A commenter claimed that the OP was an apikoros.
Not for caring about animals.
that’s why it would be good if the girl described in the OP is a Yoetzet. Hopefully she would be a good one.
The story in the OP describes nothing but her hasmadah, and doesn’t discuss her hashkafos, her character, or her sensibility.
There’s nothing in the story I related (which was similar to popa’s and is probably the same story) that indicted that the yoetzet was a lazy person. She might have been a big masmidah.
As Logician pointed out, the husbands are often involved, and of course there’s bias, but why should the husband be any more unconformable asking a rov than the wife asking a yoetzet? (Yes, I know you mentioned second hand, but that really makes little sense if you think about it.)
And yes, some male rabbonim are horrible. I shudder at the though of people relying on them for psak. It’s why I hesitate to post “AYLOR”; I’m afraid of to whom I may be referring, but why add an unnecessary layer of potential am haaratzus and bias?
This isn’t an issue of feeling bad for animals, which nobody claimed was apikorsus (straw man, anyone?). It’s an issue of having a value system which is not derived from, and not in accordance with, the Torah.
Like actually because this helps people from being Machmir on things that are dangerous to be machmir on.
No it doesn’t. Am haaratzus can (and has) caused problems both ways.
I don’t want to get into details (same sensitivity as Oomis), but I know a case where a yoetzet halachah was machmir based on blatant am haaratzus and stupidity (US story). Of course, Sam says they’re not supposed to pasken, but that didn’t stop this woman.
The need for yoatzot halachah was created by feminism. Those who aren’t afflicted by feminism get along just fine with the old system of relying on real poskim.
Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention the song title. It’s called ?? ????? ?? ??? .??? ????? ???
So far, no job offers. 🙁
The good news is that the Chase Freedom card is giving 5% off purchases in Lowe’s, so it should be a little more affordable to do over my parents’ basement.
Torah613, if you mean Miami, you’re very close.
Midwesterner, excellent list, BS”D. Also Kol Salonika Vol. II, and Mendy Wald from a Suki and Ding All-Star CD.
Then the charedi soldiers will have to suffer courts martial when they disobey an order.
Are you trying to propose a system which will work peacefuly, or not?
The halachah is that when you become part of a new community you abide by the rabbis of that community. How many charedi rabbis are there in the IDF?
That’s probably not relevant here, but even if it were, realistically, it’s not going to happen, so if you want a realistic proposal, the government will have to give in on this.
The idea that non-charedi rabbis are not competent to pasken shilahs is one of the most vicious slanders around.
Maybe, maybe not. Not all charedi rabbis are competent to answer shailos either,but you’re trying to force people to accept rabbis based on government appointments, and they shouldn’t and won’t.
You are also ignoring the fact that the validity of the missions sometimes undertaken is a matter of major contention between the camps, and affects shailos such as putting people into sakana and chillul Shabbos.
Charlie, you are in agreement with R’ Chaim Kanievsky. However, there were gedolim who felt, as Utah seems to be saying, that the mishnah was referring only to those who are ready to get married, and that it’s rare to find an eighteen year old boy who is.
Fny, I think what you’re saying has merit in some cases. I think a lot of thought needs to be used as to which audiences would and would not benefit from using the sefer, and in how to use it.
No. And I don’t think a full two year difference (between your observation and mine) is mere quibbling (although I have been known to quibble).
Kashrus is even more expensive.
Rebyidd stands for rebbitzen yiddene? Who would have imagined…
The charedi world will also have to more accept that non-charedi Orthodox rabbis can be relied upon in places like the IDF.
That belongs in the next paragraph, restated as follows: “Israeli society will have to accept that charedi soldiers will not accept the p’sakim of non chareidi rabbis in places such as the IDF.”
I would add that the level of vitriol between charedi and non-charedi politicians is completely unacceptable — on both sides.
That’s true for all Israeli politics, it’s not limited to charedi/non-charedi issues. Also, it means less in that culture than it would in American culture.
Stores sell what is in demand. The store owner has his/her own nisayon about what to sell or not sell, but to put the onus of how people dress on the store owners, that is just plain silly.
Agreed. The supermarkets in frum neighborhoods don’t sell treif because nobody would buy it.
There may be a point to think about here, though; if frum grocers would sell tarfus as well, would people be so outraged that they would take their business elsewhere? If so, does the same standard apply to clothing stores?
Sam, what you are describing is the difference between not caring about a breach in tznius, and not being aware of one. Certainly, the latter is not ideal, but yes, there’s a world of difference.
Oomis, sorry.
Gavra, busy day, haven’t had time for full responses. What I mean is that for those who see and know how to dress properly, the non compliance is rooted in a bad midah.
OurTorah’s story is different. She seems to have the innate midah of tznius, but was lacking knowledge.
It’s a travesty that her community’s standards and attitudes (or at least that of some individuals in her circle) are such that she would be made to feel an outcast for keeping the halachos properly. I have deep respect for her ability to overcome that. This shows not only the midah of tznius, but also that of gevurah.
I’ve never actually read the book, although I have heard some things about it.
There’s a lot of actual halacha which cannot be taught in a classroom, or published as a textbook. Yes, you can be specific about how much hair may or may not peek out from underneath the head covering, but those halachos can probably be taught in twenty minutes.
I’m talking about areas which are impossible to define, involving the overall appearance (and I do not want to get into any kind of detail). Someone could be in violation of actual halacha while not going against any measurable standard.
I disagree with you that this is limited to a problem with a midah. I even disagree with you, to some extent, that driving a fancy car is a bad midah. What they share in common, though, is that they are both a manifestation of a bad midah.
has proven to be a Michshol for many women
That’s a discussion on its own, and I wasn’t commenting one way or the other, but it’s become too common to scapegoat his sefer (as representative of the “fire and brimstone” approach) instead of recognizing it for what it is, to a large extent – a reaction to a decrease in tznius.
I will reiterate what I said before. Tznius is a middah, and the improper dress we see is a manifestation. There’s no easy way to do tikun hamidos, and there are no shortcuts. It starts, for me as a parent, with chinuch, and I think if I would start blaming these external factors for the decreased level of tznius, I would risk shirking my own duties as a mechanech.
And 15 years ago it was the norm for non-Chasidish yeshiva guys to start dating at 20 or 21.
That’s not my observation.
That’s why they’re always complaining that they don’t have any.
When will you guys stop taking everything I say so seriously and start taking NOTHING I say seriously??? I’ve only said it umpteen times: relax!
I guess we don’t have to take that too seriously either.
How do you teach someone to want to be tznius?
Frumyeshivish, I think you totally misconstrued I.M. Shluffin’s post. She simply stated a fact, that the Ateres groups utilize the sefer Oz Vehadar Levusha. That’s it, but you chose to make it into a review of the sefer and its author, and its application.
If I were to say that I post in “the coffee room”, would you be medayek that I’m claiming that there is only one room with coffee? Would you ask if I am asserting that the room is coffee? Would you begin discussing the motivations of the owner of the website or the CR moderators?
Lol I.M. Shluffin.
147, do you think tznius improves with marriage, or did you just link two random issues?
Popa, is it better than ten years ago, or is it just better than fifty years ago?
Veltz, aren’t there aspects of tznius which have gotten worse, even if we have gotten better in one specific area?
Personally, I think tznius is a middah, which applies to both men and women, although it expresses itself differently for each.
Specifically, as it relates to what seems to be the subject of this thread, namely women’s dress (and the fact that we in the CR seem to enjoy talking about this aspect more than others is probably due to a lack of tznius), the underlying problem, particularly today that there is not a lack of knowledge of the halachos, is a middos issue. If a girl would be a tzanua, she would want to dress modestly.
Is there a benefit to all of the shiurim, gatherings, presentations, rabbinic exhortations, etc.? Maybe. As a community, we certainly need to be clear about our values, about what is important to us, and about what is repulsive to us.
I don’t know how effective it all is, though. The best way I know to teach middos is by example, and there is no quick fix. Middos are a lifetime’s work.
Give me your phone # and I’ll sing it to you. 🙂
Anovim lyrics: (not my translation)
At the hour that the king moshiach comes, stands on the roof of the beis hamikdosh (holy temple) and he announces to Israel and says:
Anovim anovim, (modest ones) the time of your redemption has come, and if you dont believe, see my light that shines.