Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
PF, he didn’t insult Yerushayim either.
MM, Women of the Wall, the fighting it causes, Jews ascending Har Habayis (chayav kares), pritzus near the holiest place on Earth.
Sam, at least spell it right – Tziyoinim.
MachaaMaker, do you deny that there’s a downside to having the Kosel in Jewish hands? Or do you not care?
I’m also not sure why you think it’s okay to make a personal attack. You may not like what popa said, it was certainly controversial, but he didn’t insult anyone personally. (For the record, I have similarly criticized personal attacks against posters I don’t usually agree with.)
147, there were apikorsim rebelling against Hashem there?
Why are you getting worked up about their getting worked up about it?
Despite the ignorance and cynicism of some responses, it is still a fair and legitimate question.
Mod 42 loves his mod #.
Gavra, your esoteric references notwithstanding, I agree that part of what is called “Daas Torah” is (or at least should be) the wisdom to know one’s limitations.
Despite the ignorance of some responses, it is a fair and legitimate question.
noun
the manifestation of the proximity of the “o” to the “p” on the standard qwerty keyboard, generally caused by post haste, and found in your mind
???? ?’ ????? ?????? ???
Someone who acquires Torah knowledge acquires the intangible we call “wisdom”.
So is being Ashkenazi!
Mazel Tov! I can’t wait to hear what this new couple does wrong. 😉
A oicture.
I just want to know if I did anything to upset them.
No you don’t, because none of us could possibly answer that.
Don’t.
Let it go.
If someone thinks he can change the Torah to his whims he’s an apikores. If he thinks he’s right and therefore the Torah must mean like him, he’s a baal gaavah and krum and misguided, but maybe not an apikores.
It’s not a valid shittah, of course. There’s a crazy amount of gaavah there to think they’re more “compassionate” than all of the gedolim from all generations who had no qualms about eating meat, and the whole thing is a huge distortion.
I’m quibbling about the term “apikorsus”.
Additionally bekius sedarim in many yeshivos is a weak seder if it exists at all – I think that makes a statement in it of itself.
Ah, but what’s the cause, and what’s the effect?
It was always well known that the yeshivos were not following R’ Schach’s wishes. The only possible normal explanation would be that the roshei yeshivah saw that it would cause the bochurim to lose interest, so sacrificed the ideal way to learn, for the purpose of getting the bochurim to be interested in learning.
Anyone who thinks that R’ Schach was against iyun, though, never learned (or comprehended) his seforim. He wrote the most lomdish’e seforim in the dor. The issue is one of approach; he maintained that one must attain bekius in order to attain iyun, but he was never satisfied with just bekius.
When somebody sees themselves as more compassionate than the Torah…
Well, sure, if they were saying that, but they’re not necessarily saying that. I haven’t read their literature, but I’m assuming that they are claiming that their compassion, and abstinence from animal products, is sanctioned and even applauded by the Torah.
I think they are distorting the Torah’s views, but by claiming that they are in consonance with them, and not directly contradicting the words of Chazal, they might be saving themselves from being considered apikorsim.
At the very least, though, they are r”l headed in that direction, l”a.
PF, I’ll try later tonight, bl”n.
PF,
Lol, so if we had two it would be okay?
The reason that we highly value their words is because they are closer to the authentic mesora. Not because they are naturally smarter or better writers.
This is not true. We consider previous generations smarter. See Ramba”m in his hakdama to Pirush Hamishnayos. It is generally assumed to apply to all subsequent generations, and the general approach of each generation’s talmidei chachomim to those of previous generations bears this out.
Hashem gave us this world,
agreed, of course
and it is our job to take care of it.
Source?
Yytz,
Vegetarians are not people who happen to not like the taste of meat, they’re people who have a moral opposition to it.
If someone doesn’t like meat, there’s no oneg Shabbos for him to eat it, but that’s got absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.
I don’t think it’s anti-Torah per se, it’s non-Torah. Compassion is wonderful, but when you put it ahead of other values (e.g. oneg Shabbos)in a way which halachah does not demand or even request, you’re just using an excuse to follow an “ism” rather than the Torah.
Your example of hashovas aveidah is backwards. Learn the sugya and you’ll see what I mean.
Why would you question someone who became a vegatarian for health reasons or someone who just doesnt like meat?
Did anyone?
Thank you for the clarification.
I don’t know what Rav Kook held (although you can hardly call someone who ate meat a vegetarian), but either way, I question the motives of the frum vegetarians. Regardless of whether it’s connected to a political movement, it’s an “ism”, and I remain skeptical that their approach was derived by delving into the sugya. I am much more inclined to believe that they decided on vegetarianism the same way Mathew Scully did, and then looked for support from Torah authorities.
Mod 42, just the opposite; the source for hair covering mid’Oraisa is the fact that until then, her hair was covered. Sotah is a unique case.
The fact that the standards are different for married and unmarried women has been used for the halachos of tefach (R’ Moshe) and krias Shema (Aruch Hashulchan), but never by mainstream poskim for actual heter.
Be careful with limud z’chus; it’s nice to be melamed z’chus on those who didn’t or don’t, but you don’t want to be machshil anyone into not covering their hair based on the notion that there’s solid halachic basis, when there really isn’t.
Did he get your vote?
Refuah sheleimah.
Well, for one thing, there are meshugoim in di velt who seem to start many conversations but not respond to those who reply.
No, I wouldn’t be shocked, I would just eliminate possibility #3. 🙂
mainly coming from a Torah perspective
Do they mainly believe the Torah is right?
I haven’t seen their literature; if they’re frum, they undoubtedly put a frum spin on it. But are they honestly trying to see what the Torah says, or trying to see which Torah sources they can bring to back up an “ism”?
No, I don’t think the “proba” (litmus test) for this is what they say they will do liymos hamashiach; it’s whether they would eat from a normal shechitah according to Shulchan Aruch, today. Also, whether they are this “machmir” about things which don’t fit with liberalism.
*I have heard this quoted multiple times “Rishonim are malachim”.
Either you heard wrong, misunderstood, or hang out with fools. Nobody says Rishonim were malachim. Even the expression “Im Rishonim k’malachim” is not referring specifically to talmidei chachamim following the Geonim, it’s an expression which refers to the relative greatness of previous generations. On that we do have a mesorah, so yes, we do tread very carefully when dealing with the words of the Rishonim.
Actually, how she dresses in public is more stringent than k”s. The halachos are derived from the Gemaras about a woman losing her kesubah based on lack of proper attire.
DaMoshe, as I wrote, “A chevrah which wants a kiddush club will choose a shul with a Rav who lets it go”.
Sure, in theory, if no shul would allow it, it wouldn’t exist. But l’maaseh, if every shul would ban it, another shul would open which allowed it.
I think we’re really in agreement here. We both find the behavior unacceptable, and feel that the Rav should put his foot down. I just want to add that we need a mehalach of how to deal with this unfortunate reality, and not be satisfied with only expressing our indignation.
What’s wrong with the old one?
No, rf, although that might be necessary, I just meant that some people (hopefully most) have enough mentchlichkeit, based on a proper chinuch, that they will control themselves even if they’re hungry.
a: honestly think its mutar to be cruel to animals al pi hadin or otherwise
By using the word *cruel”, you manipulate the discussion. Why don’t you learn the sugya before deciding what is or isn’t muttar al pi din?
or b: simply don’t believe there is truth to any “isms” outside of torah hashkafah
That’s an important point. The vegetarians are not coming from a Torah perspective. They are coming from an “ism” perspective and trying to force as much of it into the Torah as they can, lo aleinu, and need to distort the sources in order to do so.
so even if vegetarians make good points, we cannot hold like them?
See my previous point; it’s academic, since their conclusions are not like the Torah.
A Baal Koreh who is only out during leaning? How do you do that?
Lol
Oomis, +1
If there is food available, people and kids will inevitably eat it, especially since no one had breakfast beforehand and davening is long on shabbos.
Not with proper middos/chinuch.
Nobody is “for” kiddush clubs, the same way nobody is “for” stealing, or “for” lack of tznius, or “for” any aveiros. It happens anyhow because of the yetzer hara.
I think we should expend more energy thinking about how we can be mechanach ourselves and our children than in ranting to the world about how bad ” yenem” is. Ranting about how bad such behavior is has its place, but hopefully the foundation is much stronger than that.
Can you tell us which shul it is? I want a good herring and cholent!
Seriously, though, I wouldn’t daven there either. There are really two points to be made here; one about gluttony and chinuch, as you said, but the other about selecting a shul/kehillah.
A chevrah which wants a kiddush club will choose a shul with a Rav who let’s it go, and if they’re the ones choosing the Rav, it’s even easier.
Yes, of course the Rav is wrong as well, but face it, if he would put his foot down, they’ll either choose another Rav or another shul. We don’t live in the shtetl any longer.
Notasheep, is popa your sister-in-law?
Yytz,
Of course, anyone writing against killing animals will focus on the most disturbing part of the process to bolster their arguments. The question is whether eliminating those parts would change the habits of frum vegetarians. I doubt it, otherwise someone would find a way to make money on them.
Getting stuck in traffic should not be one of those causes, unless someone in the car is in labor or having some other type of medical emergency.
Still shouldn’t be a cause to get angry.
I’m not sure what your point was, but entirely covering the knees is halachah. Tefach is regarding krias shema, and hair covering according to R’ Moshe (which is misunderstood by many, as an aside).
North or South?
Nishdayngesheft, thank you for the mareh makom. Yes, Charlie turned the teshuvah upside down and shechted it.
Halacha: anything you and I both do
Minhag: anything I do but you don’t
Chumra: anything you do, but I don’t, which I understand
Shtus: anything you do, but I don’t, which I don’t understand