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GM,
I was joking. But thanks anyhow.
Lunch? You call the heilige seudas Shabbos lunch? You must be modern orthodox! </ hyperbolic, sarcastic, fanatical rant>
I tried that once (beer in the cholent). It took a while, but I’ve b”H since been able to restore sholom bayis.
Jbaldy22,
Are there any non-kosher varieties of K-Cups, and if so, how do you deal with the kashrus issues of using a public machine?
you have no way of being confident that your certified product does not contain approved products.
That’s true. I also didn’t say hashgochas are perfect. We’re kind of playing the odds. I’m not backtracking (I used the word maaleh for certified, I didn’t passel approved), although I’m probably not explaining myself well.
Other than homemade, there’s no guarantee of kashrus even with the best hechsherim (the Satmar rov Zt”l didn’t like the term “mehadrin” for this reason). When we’re too lazy or busy to make everything from scratch, we try to get as close, in reliability, as possible. Of course it would be great to have mashgiach temidi for everything, but we don’t want to pay the price. So we employ all types of methods of keeping the food kosher al pi din, in the most economical way.
Even if one more step in the process is supervised, the level of reliability has gone up. So if there are legitimate grounds to be mattir, for example, unflavered beer without a hechsher, there is still a market for certified beer, as evidenced by the fact that there are now many beers with hechsherim (not muchrach, I know, because it’s good marketing for non-religious reasons as well).
Still, I would prefer popa’s home brew (it’s probably a thousand time tastier as well, but that’s besides the point). And I know that popa uses approved components, but we have a maaleh in one step of the process.
I’ll give you a moshol. There was once a king who needed to go to the bank to withdraw money. He walked up to the teller to withdraw money, and presented his ATM card. He was about to put in his pin #, when his trusted advisor told him (in pig latin) to cover the buttons so that the teller couldn’t see. Now, the computer techs at the bank could hack into his account, and so could some hacker in Nigeria (or wherever hackers are from). The advisor himself knows the pin as well, so the king could easily taaneh that there’s no guarantee that his money is safe, so who cares if one more person, the teller, has the pin? But it would not be a good taaneh, because prudence still dictates minimizing exposure to risk.
So too by us. Even if hechsherim rely on approved components when necessary, why wouldn’t I want something which was processed and finished (usually the most kashrus sensitive area) under supervision? Sure, if I was making a sholom zochor and couldn’t find certified beer, I would use approved. But when certified is available, I buy that. And if I had the time and know-how (and wasn’t afraid of explosions) I would make my own.
Haifagirl, I though you would comment that one does not eat herring for desert.
I’m not making a broad generalization; I think it depends on the type of item.
Also, I never meant that approved is not good, just that certified is better.
I don’t think that is responsive to my point.
Maybe you didn’t understand. Shall I explain it with a moshol? 🙂
My point is that when you buy ice cream which is certified, you would have no way of knowing if one of the ingredients is Drambuie which under goldersgreen’s bubbe maisa would only be approved.
My point was that I don’t think Drambuie should be approved without certification, because the flavorings are kashrus sensitive. A moshol for that would be cookies, which are also kashrus sensitive. They wouldn’t allow them to be used in ice cream without certification. Whereas, the sugar, which is not so kashrus sensitive, would be approved, not necessarily certified.
At one time, Drambuie was not certified, but was used in Europe. The kashrus experts in the U.S. with whom I spoke were very critical of its use without certification, and felt that the kashrus standards in Europe, where they relied on ingredient listings and some communication with the manufacturers, were anachronistic.
The worst are Starbucks K-Cups. Tarti l’reyusa.
Mojave and Sahara?
The approved components are usually the types of things that are never problematic, but something like Drambuie has ingredients which could be problematic (glycerin, for example).
Since the other thread was closed before I got a chance to comment, I want to point out that Zdad correctly pointed out that he does not generally insult other posters (except one whom he called a troll). Although I frequently disagree with Zdad, and find his opinions to be biased and often based on misinformation, I try to keep my dialogue with him civil. I was very uncomfortable with the personal attacks, so I will take this opportunity to say that I think that it went overboard.
Wolf, an ad hominum argument is invalid (unless some of the force of the argument is appeal to authority) when the point being debated is not the person in question. I this case, the ad hominum argument, I think, was not being brought to prove the point about loshon hora. It was brought as a personal attack, to demonstrate Zdad’s inconsistency.
As an aside, LH does not apply to someone who is not “bichlal amisecha”, and IIRC, the issue of speaking badly about the deceased is not technically a LH issue. I could be wrong, but I think the problem with speaking negatively about Koch is that it shows a lack of hakaras hatov (appreciation) for what he accomplished on behalf of the Jewish people.
Popa,
Are you maskim to me that there’s a maaleh in certified over approved?
For anyone confused, this was in response to: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/%D7%9B%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%99%D7%99-%D7%98%D7%95%D7%91
The difference between approved and certified is, or at least should be, that the company is obligated to keep, with a penalty for violating, the standards of the certifying agency.
I would be amazed to hear that any reputable agency would allow its symbol to be used without recourse for violations.
Maybe the shoe comparison has some merit, but the blood pressure medication anology was odd. Obviously, an approval and a certification are doing the same thing – demonstrating the kashrus of a product.
Squeak, what if I let him marry only one of my daughters? The one I’m thinking of happens to like cider, so there’s at least one thing in common.
42,
I think SJSinNYC used to have one.
Good. Now I can continue to make Kiddush and Havdallah on a revi’is of Drambuie (Chasing Ish shiur, of course).
I also hold like you, that hakaras hatov means reciprocating in kind.
One time, I was down and out. No job, no money, and major shalom bayis issues. My good friend was a real lifesaver. He convinced a business associate of his to give me a job. I started as a salesman, but I was able to build myself up to be head of the sales department. I was b”H able to pay my bills, with something to spare, and earn back my wife’s respect.
The problem was, how can I possibly repay him in kind? He was successful in his job, with a great marriage; a bottle of wine or a heartfelt letter just wouldn’t do the trick.
So I spread rumors about him that he was involved in a ponzi scheme.
His business associates no longer trusted him, so he couldn’t do business and he lost all his money. His marriage was, b”H suffering terribly.
So I was able to convince my boss (with whom I had since become partners) to hire him as a salesman.
B”H, hakaras hatov lemehadrin!
All because I hold like Popa, that hakaras hatov means you have to do exactly the favor that was done for you, in order to show your appreciation.
The “Get Out of Jail Free” card.
Its Kosher for Kiddush.
That’s actually debatable, since our grape juice has chemicals which inhibit fermentation. There is whom to rely on to be lenient. Also, even if it were unpreserved juice, it is preferable to use wine. So your chumra is actually a kula.
There’s a simple answer to “more”. “No”.
Dinah d’malchuisah dinah.
There are very specific ways in which that halachic rule is used. This is probably not one of them. I agree with the rest of your post.
ZD,
Giving an ounce of wine from kiddush is not corruption of a minor. C’mon, be real.
TLIK,
Was Toi talking about Purim?
There’s no mitzvah to eat coleslaw either. I still think it’s fine to serve it.
So there is no minhag at all to learn and survive on government benefits. Prior to then you had to work or starve
Your second sentence does a good job of explaining your first sentence.
Trei amorai aliba d’Rowlings?
when i have bochrim, i pour. one or two shots a bochur. they wont grab the bottle and chug your booze. problem solved, without being ocd.
Or making them go otd.
I hope Zdad doesn’t know your ID, he might have you arrested.
My rule is such, If anyone under 21 asks me for a drink at a simcha or elsewhere I will tell them, I will not give them anything unless their parents tell me directly its ok.
That makes sense.
If I have teenagers as guests and their parents arent at the table, I will serve ONLY grape juice even for Kiddush,
That’s going way overboard.
Maybe there’s another girsa?
Popa,
Also, I don’t know how to “Ivor’s” it.
That’s Klingonese for “ignore”.
Bennett Slams Chareidim Just Before Being Sworn Into Knesset
I then realized that you may have a degree in Talmud or college football history, and never needed to learn Klngonese, so I edited the post. (I edited it within about a minute of posting it – how did you see that?!).
How do these people know you have Facebook? If they guessed, just ignore it, like I do, since I haven’t got an account.
Jbaldy22,
Nice to see you(r SN).
I think people are forgetting that the minhag clearly has been to take ad d’lo yada pretty literally. Some very big gedolim were noheg this way (others weren’t, but the ones who were had bigger yeshivos).
As the generations have deteriorated, the question has become whether those who can drink responsibly should stop doing so in order not to set a bad example for those who aren’t responsible, and whether it would help. I don’t know the answer to this question; there seem to be supporters for both positions.
But one cannot just GIVE smicha to just anyone.There has to be a basis for him to be worthy of it, at least in the learning aspect. Or is that not the case?
Ideally, of course. In reality – who knows?
20, the benefits are that you can approve your own posts while everyone else’s stay on the queue. Just ask 42. 😉
Oomis, is the brown Godiva still parve?
Rebdoniel,
I found Campari listed on kosherliquorlist. com. Apprently, some bottles have Rav Gorelik’s hechsher, and KLBD may certify as well (check that out because these things can change, and I don’t know if that site is reliable).
Schmerling Chocolate liqueur
Drambuie
Without a crown!? He bought her one.
Before or after the 24 (12+12) years?
DaasYochid – I agree with you that there are intolerant people on all sides.
I’m glad to see that you agree with me on that. This was not reflected in your previous post.
I think it’s a bit simple-minded to think that the chareidi lifestyle is based on not seeing both perspectives. Your implication that writing your (admittedly inaccurate) moshol will change our minds by enlightening us with a new perspective which we have never contemplated, is both naive and condescending.
Towards the end of “Yesh Tikva”, he uses different words for the chorus. Does anyone know what they are?
RE: Oorah raffle ribbis issue:
The Shulchan Aruch (Y.D. 176:15) allows a dowry to be structured in a way which has an increased amount if the payment are delayed. The posek I spoke to (he answers Choshen Mishpat and ribbis shailos daily) was mattir the Oorah rafle on these grounds. It is similar to the dowry, which has the status, for ribbis, of a matana, as does the raffle.
It seems that Mod 42 and Joseph are correct that it is considered (despite the wording) to be a choice of two different prizes because there is no chov (obligation) based on a loan (or sale, which would have been ribbis d’rabbonon).
Snowbunny,
I don’t see that anyone answered you question, so here’s a simplified explanation of heter iska.
A transaction which would normally be structured as a loan, can be structured in a way to make it a type of transaction which doesn’t involve ribbis. A contract is signed between the two parties in which the “lender” is considered an investor, and is investing in a business handled by the “borrower”. The additional money he will receive is not interest, it is a return on his investment.
Although normally such a loophole would not be allowed, because it is too similar to actual ribbis, an exception was made because people were not lending money because there was no material gain, and businesses were unable to prosper.
You’re very welcome. Thanks for letting me know you saw it.
Does that mean the Shimons are losing?
Toi, I’m not sure I want to know what the mehadrin min hamehadrin is.
T613t,
You’re misstating the issue.
Much secular knowledge is valuable and acceptable. Much is harmful and assur; the charedim have avoided even the former. The reason is that during one’s formative years, it is necessary to focus on learning in order to develop properly as a ben Torah, at the expense of what is inherently valuable.
BS’D,
I’m sure that’s where I got it from, now that you mention it.
Yes, and non-charedim are constantly conceding to charedim, since they’re so open minded, right?
ZD,
There are people giving hundreds of dollars. They have lists of known philanthropists, and every year, the list is refined based on past years’ donations.