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It did not happen. This story is a variant on a few (including the deaf man in the shteeble by Country Yossi). ALWAYS ALWAYS check with Snopes. Nice story though.
Actually all of these stories are having a truly profound impact on me.
estherh, now THAT is inspiring!
A man is walking thorough the forest, when he comes upon a lion, camel and bear. He has a gun with only one bullet. What should he do?
Shoot the bear, because there are no lions or camels in a forest, so clearly THEY are a mirage.
Dovid, because he’d walk a mile for a “C h A i M ” e L.”
Artchill – amein v’amein.
“Signed Dr. Howard Kelly. Tears of joy flooded her eyes as her happy heart prayed: “Thank You, God, that Your love has spread abroad through human hearts and hands.”
The above is a true story!!! “
I generally really DO hate to be a spoilsport, but if you go to Snopes.com and type in the search engine “Dr. Howard Kelly and the glass of milk” you will find that although the substance of the story is true, it has been GROSSLY, GROSSLY exaggerated to be more dramatic. He was not an impoverished kid with his last dime – quite the opposite, came from a very weall-to-do family that was putting him through school. He was not ready to give up and quit anything, and he was not starving and selling goods from door to door. He had been on a hiking trip and stopped by a farm because he became thirsty. The girl (not woman) who answered the door and gave him a drink, was not deathly ill with a baffling illness, she was merely one of his patients 75% of whom he never charged a dime, because they could not afford him. That alone is sufficient to make a hero of him, in my book, without the need to embellish his story with untruths that “sound” good for the story. whenever I read an e-mail that sounds like this, however sweet and poignant the story might be, if it purports to eb true, I always go to Snopes.com to see if there is a report on it. 99% of the time the story is false (like the girl with leukemia, and the American Cancer Society donating money for every e-mail forwarded – they RECEIVE donations, they do not MAKE them).
If all we are interested in is the essence of the message of the story, then it matters little whether or not it really happened. But if we are printing something as fact, we should be certain that it is indeed fact. Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble.
HaQer – oh boy, did you ever just open a can of worms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My ainekel’s very first song that he ever sang to me, is this one!!!
Squeak, Squeak, Squeak – what ARE we to do with you???? Still celebrating Purim, are we???
AZ, do what you want. The kind of attitude you display is one which I have seen in many guys. They have such a need and zeal to be right, that they quote gemaras and p’sukim, seforim, and Gedolim to support their point, but fail to understand that ALL of that does not make the particular point that they are fighting so HARD to prove, to be appropriate. I do not have to speak to Rav Shteinman, to know that at least one single woman here has already expressed dismay at your use of that loshon, yet you stubbornly continue to cling to the expression of agunos and akaros, KNOWING it hurts some posters hear to be compared to them, and ALSO knowing that it has been pointed out to you that agunos and akaros would likewise be hurt by your comparison of their tragedy to that of a girl not yet meeting her zivug (which is difficult enough on its OWN merits). Onaas devarim is very serious. Most people in this day and age do not refer to anyone as an agunah unless she is unable to be freed from her marriage, and no one calls a woman an akara unless she is infertile. However many times you are told that, you stubbornly insist what you insist, and it matters little HOW many Gemaras or rabbonim you quote in this specific isntance. I have known guys with that same middah, and it is not a good one for anyone to have.
I don’t know if you are married or not (hope you are), but if not, you might want to consider that knowing when to graciously admit you “might” be mistaken about doing something (even if in your heart you feel you are right),might be good practice for compromise in a future relationship.
“Dear Oomis, I posted two Purim-ish jokes up the page a bit. “
LOL
c ?
Make a delicious challah kugels (sweet, with apples, raisins, walnuts, sugar, eggs, oil, cinnamon, and vanilla. Break the challah up or cube it, soak in some water or a little juice, add the other ingredients, put in a round pan, sprinkle the top with lots of cinnamon, bake at 350 until browned nicely and voila! Or make baked stuffing as a side dish, with lots of sauteed onions, mushrooms, celery, spices, etc.
Squeak is right, haifagirl is right, and I am right. AZ, we have asked repeatedly for you to please stop using offensive terminology to describe unmarried people (offensive to them, as outlined by haifagirl, and offensive to the true agunos and akaros who don’t even have the potential to get married or have children, unlike free, single, unmarried men and women). The fact that you continue to call them by those terms, after specifically being told by haifagirl that it offends her, shows an incredible lack of sensitivity on your part, especially as you claim to be so concerned for their plight. You made your point, however inappropriately, that the unmarried go through a terrible nisayon. Please leave it at that and move on already.
“Just like it is no big deal to marry a girl 4 or 5 years younger, we need to get to the point where it is no big deal (and it isn’t!) to marry a boy 4 or 5 years younger than the girl.”
Since most boys do not mature emotionally at the same rate as girls do, if you are talking about a 22 year old boy and a 26-27 year old girl, I would not recommend that. It probably only works when both parties are already in the late twenties and early thirties or in their thirties and upward. A woman of 28 has little in common with a boy of 22, especially if he will want to learn for any amount of time after marriage. By the age of almost thirty, most women are looking for someone who already knows where he is, not someone who is first starting out. People change a great from early to late 20s. A boy who actually wants to marry a woman that much older, when he is very young, is often regarded as looking for a mommy, not an equal partner in life.
I love PEsach and always look forward to it. I do NOT get crazy with the cleaning. I don’t throw chometz on my walls and ceiling, and I do not eat in my closets. I clean out the chometz, put away the cometzdig items in a locked closet and sell it, change over the kitchen, kasher the stove and oven, and am ready to cook at least two days before yom tov (and I know people who are ready a week early, which to me is excessive).
I did not grow up that way, btw. My parents’ house was not ready until the morning of erev Pesach. But I find this much easier for myself.
T?
Yes, I agree that this is often true. I have seen it happen to many of my children’s friends of whom I thought as being shy or quiet.
Da, you left out the most important line…
“The Sahara Forest.”
“Don’t you mean the Sahara Desert?”
“Sure – NOW !!!!!”
“FYI: see tosafos beginging second perek of kiddushin who uses Aguna to refer to girls not getting married due to societal issues.’
And exactly what ARE those societal issues? Please clarify.
First and foremost my late parents O”H inspired me and continue to do so. Any mailos I might have are 100% because of them (but any chesronos I have chalilah, are decidedly NOT their fault). Their ongoing acts of chessed even until virtually their death, were known primarily to us, but also to my father’s patients who often could not pay him, but were never turned away. My mother’s hachnosas orchim was so gracious and generous, you felt like family even if you were a newcomer to our home, and that is how I try to pattern my own home.
After my parents, and without making reference to rabbonim or specific Gedolim, because that should go without saying – I am also inspired by my children, and even by my very young eineklach, whose temimus helps me to always look at things in a fresh way when I am with them.
I always scan the obituaries first. If I don’t see my name, I can go about the rest of my day…
Getting old sounds bad… until we consider the alternative….
I wish I were 21 (but I will never see THAT year again 🙁 sad to say ).
Good point, haifagirl.
ICOT – You were so funny, I laughed so hard I started coffee-ing!
No Az, you’re wrong there. Things can stand on their own merits and do not need to be called by misnomers that obfuscate the issue. I don’t have to call an unmarried girl BARREN. Someone who is barren cannot have children. Someone who is an agunah can never get married.Period. Poor analogy, IMO. The unmarried girl (or boy, for that matter) may not YET be married, but nothing is biologically or halachically impeding them from doing so, unlike the aforementioned people.
Is there a real issur on women davening together in a group, or leining? I know it is not assur for us to touch a Sefer Torah, so what is the problem about dancing with it (separate from men watching them, of course)?
The women’s rabbi thing is a whole ‘nother issue altogether, and I am sure most frum people would agree about that subject, in spite of the “rabbah” title some would like to confer on a learned woman. My feeling is, you can label an apple as an orange, but at the end of the day it was, is, and always will be an apple. The title Rabbi specifically normally refers to a male who because of his intense learning and understanding of Torah, has received smicha, and who then hopefully will impart his learning to others. A female who is equally learned as he, (and there are such women) is still a female, and cannot be a rabbi. (I would rather she be known as a talmidat chacham. But nobody asked me and the decision is not mine to make).
Rav Shteinman clearly had a reason for his choice to use the terms he has, perhaps in order to really drive home his feelings about the seriousness of the pain of the unmarried person. But IMO for us to repeat it, diminishes the chashivus of the pain experienced by TRUE agunos and akaros (and what about the men who are not married, should they likewise be referred to as agunim and akarim??? Of course not!). So whatever the rov said as his own personal hashkafa, I think AZ, that it makes more sense for you to not use that expression here. An halachic aguna is a woman who cannot re-marry (RE-marry, not marry to begin with), because she is either married to a man who has abandoned her, disappeared for other reasons (as in war casualties), or refuses to follow the halacha and give her a GET. An Akara is a woman who R”L is barren. Both situations are tragic in and of themselves, and deserve to be respected as such without mixing in another tragedy besides, that HAS the potential to be rectified much more quickly.
Even the scratching into the skin is assur, if done as a mourning practice like the Akum. What is the expression, “lo tisgodidu?” We are not to make sratim in the skin, because the avoda zara-niks did that.
You are one smartcookie, sc. I am 4.
I’m for ANYTHING that shortens my workday!
“Cmon oomis, I thought ur better than that!!!! “
Nah, I’m just like the rest! 🙂
I am very VERY old-fashioned, Volvie, and I believe ideally a woman should stay home and do the job for which Hashem created us, which is to raised the next generation of frum kids (she, and not her nanny or housekeeper, no matter how good they are with kids). I do not apologize for my belief in this regard. I raised five terrific kids (so I am told they are, and quite frequently), and together with my husband I believe we instilled the right values and middos in them. Not one single child of mine grew up to be self-serving, “es kumpt tzu mir” types, or off the derech, but rather are baalei chessed, genuinely caring, kind-hearted, and loving, devoted to their family and friends, and people with whom I enjoy spending my time.
While I do not feel this is not also possible in a home where the mother works outside, I have seen a great deal of neglectful behavior in those circumstances, children who call their maids “mommy,” and kids who are not watched properly and run wild wherever they go. I cannot believe this is what Hashem wants of us in the final an analysis. And no, I am not sufficiently financially comfortable (SO FAR FROM THAT), that I could afford to stay home. My husband and I made that decision for the benefit of our children, while they were in their formative years and until all were in school full-time. I then took flexible part-time work both a few hours by day and a few hours at night (when my husband was home), so as to be an available parent. Not every woman can do so in the present economically-challenging times in which we find ourselves, but I have been talking about an ideal situation, after all.
My husband dressed up as a teenager – – that was pretty funny. He wanted us to go as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum, but reconsidered when i told him I would be Dee! JK
PArdon my ignorance – What is JOFA? Oh wait, never mind, I think I figured it out. Is there really such a group?
Well, we could always talk about the shidduch crisis age-gap – that always seems to draw a crowd.
How about a discussion about the “wonderful” job our pres is doing????? That ought to keep us busy for a while. Is there anyone here who actually voted for him?
When did it get the hechsher??????? I drink powerade, anyhow.
Just for the record re: women reciting the zimun over the wine being a “disgraceful matter,” disgraceful matter does not necessarily mean something is assur. Personally, I wouldn’t seek to do it, but there are many opinions by some rabbonim that something is not so appropriate for a woman to do, but it is not intrinsically assur. Many rabbonim hold women should not drive, but they cannot actually asser it. I am perfectly content to let the guys make the mezuman, but I have heard of women eating together in a zimun and bensching that way.
Volvie, it is likewise clear that married women should not be out in the work force either, because it could lead to them meeting guys who are more interesting, educated, and financially solvent than their husbands. I think we are over-thinking here.
What are you talking about????????? Purim was a busy day! We’re b-a-a-a-a-ack!
Volvie, with all due respect to you (and I do respect your hashkafa, I am not being sarcastic), I could not disagree with you more. Ehrliche frum girls in the decades of the 50s through the 90s met their zivugim in this way, and it led not to indeceny, but to marriage. Yes, there will always R”L be people who behave inappropriately, and by that I mean indecently. The fact that ‘some” people might be nichshal dos not mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Many, many shidduchim were made b’tznius and with the most honorable of intentions, through people meeting at Shul youth groups, Bnei Akiva, informal gatherings, etc. And btw, you don’t “allow” girls to give their numbers to someone whom they have met in a wholesome environment. If they are old enough to be ready for marriage, they are old enough to give a guy their number without needing special permission. That being said, if in your particular circles it is not ever done that way, then by all means keep to the status quo, and may all the single girls and fellows find their proper zivugim ASAP.
“but there is a still a very very LONG way to go to help/prevent from continuting ALL the Agunos and Akaros (yes older single girls are aguons and akaros-sorry for being so blunt) “
The terms agunos has very specific implications, and I think that in spite of someone using that term in relation to single women, it is inappropriate on this particular site to compare a girl or woman who is not yet married to one who wants more than anything in the world to be UNMARRIED. It is not equivalent terminology, not hlachically and not in reality. A single girl still has the potential to meet and then marry her zivug, but as long as a woman is an agunah she cannot even DATE, because she is an eishes ish. I question the viability of referring to both types of women by the same term.
As to akaros, that is a special gehenim in itself for the woman who prays with all her heart every day to become pregnant and ends up going to the mikvah month after month, with no pregnancy occurring. That, too, should not be compared to either being single or being an agunah. Each situation has its own set of tzaar attached and should be judged as such.
SJS, I thought it was the other way around on Tu B’Av.
As to approaching girls directly – we are not talking about picking them up in bars, for goodness sakes! There are many venues through which girls and boys could meet each other in a protected and halachically acceptable environment. They can talk to each other, get to know each other a bit, and then decided if they are interested in going out together, which would happen by the boy (horrors!) asking for the girl’s phone number, getting it, and calling her up. yes, yes, no, no.If one is uncomfortable with doing that, then an alternative approach must be used, but it is not fair to think that doing it that way or getting a number from a friend and calling the girl, indicates an improper upbringing. Rather it indicates that a young man has been brought up to be an independent and pro-active individual, which is a good thing, IMO.
As long as it is not permanent like a tatoo or done for reasons related to avoda zora, why not?
HAifagirl, I finally realize what you responded to that you quoted from me – – you in no way offended me qith your answer. I commend you for your approach, and you are correct that when we cry it should be for the tzaar that other people experience (AS WELL AS OUR OWN). Maybe when HAshem sees us crying for someone else, HE cheshbon’s our own sorrows with even more rachmanus for us. But I can only tell you from my own experience and that of my friends whose children are not yet married, believe me we are crying, crying for the sorrow our children undergo when all their friends (for whom they are genuinely happy) are getting married around them, for the countless thoughtless and stupid remarks people make to unmarried slightly older girls at simchas, and for the arms that are aching to bentsch licht at their own Shabbos table seated with their husbands, as well as hold children. And let us not forget those not-yet grandparents-waiting-to-be who hurt for the grandchildren they are not yet zoche to see. Don’t think for one second they are not crying also.
Haifagirl, none was needed, but thank you, just the same.To be honest, I don’t r4eally recall the post, so I guess it wasn’t too bad… 🙂
I would like to comment on the fact that it IS nice to see that menschlechkeit always comes forth in the end.
Just because the boy said he was from a certain yeshivah doesn’t necessarily mean he was telling the truth. In any case, this was obnoxious behavior.
You’re welcome, now let’s hope those wishes turn to a reality for you and all the people in need of their zivug.
Jphone, the poster used four-letter language, one long post of a specific offensive word, repeated. If you did not see it, that’s a good thing. It did not belong her (or anywhere else – that word is simply nivul peh). I have no problem with the system, but in case there are younger readers here (and clearly there are, becaue a mature adult would never have posted what this fellow did), there should be some protection for them to avoid this type of garbage. (and I know, I know – they should not be on the internet altogether).