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  • November 24, 2014 2:40 am at 2:40 am in reply to: Sample Seminary Essay #1063249
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    patal avul assur – u sure that girl isnt a troll? who in the world talks like that?

    If you don’t believe me, click on the link in her post. Also, I wasn’t only referring to the first post in that thread.

    November 24, 2014 1:12 am at 1:12 am in reply to: Sample Seminary Essay #1063246
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    DaasYochid:

    She’s going to be in the class of 2033 which is the school year beginning in September 2032 which means she will be writing her application essay in the end of 2031. That is what Popa meant when he wrote “what my daughter should write in her essay to BJJ in 2031”.

    November 24, 2014 1:09 am at 1:09 am in reply to: For PF to Vicariously Rant Endlessly About the Over-Emphasis of Iyun through PAA #1046008
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Mivchar Kesavim p. 186-187:

    ???? ?????? ??????? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ???????? ??? ????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ????????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ????

    ??? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ????? ?’ ??????? ????? ??????? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ???? (????? ?????”? ??????? ?????) ???????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ???????? ??????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?????

    November 23, 2014 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm in reply to: Sample Seminary Essay #1063242
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Just give her http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/macrobiotic-seminaries-in-israel-is-there-one and she should be good to go.

    November 23, 2014 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm in reply to: In Search #1043357
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Since I was unable to determine whether R’ Ruderman was referring to the Ralbag’s commentary on the Torah, I’ll just have to go with R’ Moshe’s haskama:

    ????? ??? ????”? ????? ?? ????? ????”? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ???????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???”? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ????”? ????? ????”? ???????? ???”? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?”? ?????? ??? ??? ?????????

    November 23, 2014 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm in reply to: For PF to Vicariously Rant Endlessly About the Over-Emphasis of Iyun through PAA #1046007
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    He’aros Chagiga 5b (R’ Elyashiv):

    (Before the actual quote, some context is in order. The Gemara says:

    ??? ???? ???? ???”? ???? ????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ?????

    R’ Elyashiv quotes the Taz who explains that in Birchas Hatorah, ??? refers to Pilpul, Yegia, etc. R’ Elyashiv then explains that the first person whom H’ cries over is one who is ???? ????? ????? ????? ???? meaning that he just learns superficially. He calls it “someone who just learns his daf yomi without iyun and yegia to clarify the emes”. The part that I’m about to quote is explaining the second category.)

    ??? ?? ??? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ?? ???? ????

    In other words, H’ cries over someone who engages in heavy iyun before he is a baki in the Chadrei Hatorah.

    November 23, 2014 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm in reply to: #1043818
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/comments-on-shopping613s-serial#post-536818

    November 23, 2014 5:20 am at 5:20 am in reply to: Rechnitz – There is no Shidduch Crisis #1043289
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Golfer:

    Perhaps you’ll like this one better. (Or perhaps you’ll lead the throwing of virtual tomatoes and rotten eggs):

    Tzlach on Berachos 17a:

    ?? ????? ????? ?????? ???”? ????? ???’. ??????? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???’ ???? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ?”? ?”? ?????? ?’ ???? ?????? ?”? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ?”? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ?????

    ???”? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ??????

    ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ?? ?? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ????

    ????? ??? ????? ??’ ??”? ?”? ?’ ???? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ???”? ????? ???? ???????

    [emphasis added]

    November 23, 2014 4:33 am at 4:33 am in reply to: For PF to Vicariously Rant Endlessly About the Over-Emphasis of Iyun through PAA #1046006
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Kovetz Shiurim Kiddushin Ose 84:

    ??????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ??”? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ?”? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ?’ ??”? ???”? ???? ??”? ?? ????? ??”? ?”? ??????? ??? ???? ???”? ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???? ???”? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ???

    November 23, 2014 4:30 am at 4:30 am in reply to: Why are some people so smart? #1043699
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    He’aros Chagiga 3a (R’ Elyashiv):

    (In its context this is being used as part of an attempted answer which is rejected because it doesn’t work to answer the particular question. I.e. the rejection was not because the concept isn’t true.)

    ???”? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ???”? ??”? ?”? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ??????

    November 23, 2014 4:15 am at 4:15 am in reply to: Why are some people so smart? #1043698
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Don’t know (what you mean by that).

    November 23, 2014 2:59 am at 2:59 am in reply to: three thread titles that have nothing to do with their threads #1043359
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    1) http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/this-has-nothing-to-do-with-techeiles-pba

    2) http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/this-is-not-related-to-the-theological-conundrum

    3) http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/chofetz-chaim-yeshivos-1

    November 23, 2014 1:57 am at 1:57 am in reply to: This Has Nothing to do With Techeiles PBA #1043114
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    And once I’m on this thread again, a potential answer to the original question of why there is no problem of dayo in the kal vachomer (although I don’t think it works within the Medrash Shmuel):

    Tosafos in Kiddushin 10b says:

    ?????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ??”? ??? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?”? ??”? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??”? ??? ??? ???? ???

    i.e. the concept of dayo is only applicable in a case where you are making a kal vachomer to prove something not mentioned by the Torah, but where the Torah does mention something something and the kal vachomer is just explaining what the Torah was referring to, dayo is not an issue. In our situation, the chiddush of the kal vachomer is not that you have to honor your teacher; the chiddush is that for the purposes of honoring your teacher, even someone who only taught you one letter qualifies. So the kal vachomer is just defining the gedarim of a preexisting concept, hence dayo is not applicable.

    November 23, 2014 1:45 am at 1:45 am in reply to: This Has Nothing to do With Techeiles PBA #1043113
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    I know you probably all think that I don’t keep my word, considering that several months ago I wrote:

    In fact there is either a Tosafos or a Maharsha in Kiddushin which asks why the gemara doesn’t make a certain kal vachomer and answers that the Gemara must have had some pircha that we don’t know of. (If I have time maybe I’ll locate the exact source.)

    yet I never provided the source. So to placate the the masses, here is the source:

    Maharsha Kiddushin 14a:

    ?”? ?????? ?”? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ??’ ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??”? ?”? ?????? ??”? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ??”? ????’ ?? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??

    ??”? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?”?

    ???”?

    November 21, 2014 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm in reply to: Stupid things people have said to you #1043075
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Good catch! I had momentarily forgotten that.

    November 21, 2014 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm in reply to: Git Shabbos #1043077
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    You’re covered until Friday February 20th if I counted correctly.

    November 21, 2014 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm in reply to: PAA's not-always-in-context Coffee Room Report Card Comments #1156652
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “You got him kicked out btw”

    (bp yidd)

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/creative-writing-cr-users-in-real-life/page/2#post-543368

    November 21, 2014 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm in reply to: Have some respect, please! #1043873
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    It does not, however, tell me anything about the respect the Torah requires me to demonstrate (if any) for an official of a Western democratic government, whether in their presence or not.

    Here is a source which directly discusses such respect:

    Shu”t Divrei Chaim Yoreh Deiah 1:30:

    ?? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?”? ???? ?????? ?? ?????

    ???????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???????

    ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???????? ??? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?????

    ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??

    ??????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???????

    ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??”? ???? ?????? ?”? ??? ???????? ????? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?’ ???? ??’ ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???????

    November 21, 2014 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm in reply to: Mitzrayim vs. Shifcha #1043009
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    So I thought of a potential answer:

    The Be’er B’sadeh writes:

    ???? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???”? ???’ ???? ??? ?????? ??”? ??”? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ??”? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??”? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ???

    Perhaps you can say the same thing for my question – Yitzchak knew that as an ???? ????? he couldn’t leave The Land of Israel, but he was going to leave anyway because it was pikuach nefesh. Therefore H’ had to specifically tell him not to leave (either because it wouldn’t be pikuach nefesh or despite it being pikuach nefesh). I don’t think it fits so well into the wording though.

    November 21, 2014 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm in reply to: Stupid things people have said to you #1043073
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    And since I am Sam2 (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/your-coffee-room-report-card-comments/page/4#post-546313 ), that would then make Sam2 your wife, or Popa’s wife depending on whether or not you were successful at being Popa. The coffee room family tree is becoming quite confusing. But I’m sure Popa would be able to make us a nice Yevamos style diagram.

    November 21, 2014 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm in reply to: Good night! #1043083
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    You’re covered until Tuesday night December 16 if I counted correctly.

    November 21, 2014 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm in reply to: Stupid things people have said to you #1043071
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    You’re sorry about the pizza but not sorry about making me become chassidish?

    November 21, 2014 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm in reply to: Stupid things people have said to you #1043068
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    What about your husband?

    According to the substitution axiom, that would be you:

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/seminary-vs-sherut-leumi/page/2#post-538082

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/so-today-i-was-popa#post-546421

    November 21, 2014 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm in reply to: Stupid things people have said to you #1043066
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Why do you feel a need to take apart everyone’s posts and list the things you think were faulty in them? Do you think it will make people look forward to your posts?

    I know this has been brought to your attention before, please be more considerate.

    Obviously I can’t speak for anyone else (except perhaps Sam2) but I personally enjoy Randomex’s (attempted) dissections of my posts.

    which is why those posts are not deleted

    November 21, 2014 4:25 am at 4:25 am in reply to: BJJ class of 2033 #1043441
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    So is Popa Jr. the budding young gadol registered yet?

    November 21, 2014 4:20 am at 4:20 am in reply to: So today, I was Popa #1141810
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    But, I dunno even what snowboarding is (I assume there’s some snow involved, and maybe an executive committee).

    It’s basically a colder version of waterboarding.

    November 20, 2014 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm in reply to: PAA's not-always-in-context Coffee Room Report Card Comments #1156651
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “PAA, please try to keep this to GOOD CR quotes. You can post all your crazy Torah related quotes in your Report Card.”

    (SayIDidIt)

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/good-cr-quotes#post-530216

    November 20, 2014 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm in reply to: Why are some people so smart? #1043696
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    This thread seems to be the place that PAA can say whatever he wants and no one responds…

    I have a few of those.

    Anyway, to explain my last few posts:

    We had been discussing whether women can’t/shouldn’t/can/should/must learn advanced Torah Sheba’al Peh and specifically Gemara. I quoted a few sources. I quoted the Maharil as a source that the problem of Tiflus does not apply if the girl wants to learn on her own. I quoted the Tosefta as a source that women in general can learn Torah Shba’al Peh (although it’s not necessarily the best source because one can simply say that the Tosefta is the opinion of Ben Azzai whereas we pasken like R’ Eliezer*). And I quoted the Lubavitcher Rebbe as a source for the idea that since women nowadays are highly educated in all other areas, they must be highly educated in Torah Sheba’al Peh as well. Finally I quoted the Seridei Eish because if we grant that it is at least a machlokes about whether women can learn advanced Torah Sheba’al Peh, then perhaps we should apply his idea that we should pasken the machlokes against the side which is for lack of a better term “offensive to some people’s sensibilities” and may cause them to mock the Torah. Feel free to disagree with any of my extrapolations/conclusions.

    * Referring to the original machlokes tannaim in the mishnah in Sotah 20a wherein Ben Azzai says that one is obligated to teach his daughter Torah and R’ Eliezer says that teaching your daughter Torah is as if you teach her tiflus.

    November 20, 2014 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm in reply to: West Hempstead #1210733
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Thank you very much Golfer for the heartfelt sentiments.

    November 20, 2014 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm in reply to: Why are some people so smart? #1043694
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    I wonder if the Seridei Eish’s words would apply here.

    Kisvei Hagaon R’ Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg 1:32:

    ????? ????”? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ??? ???”?

    November 20, 2014 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm in reply to: PAA's not-always-in-context Coffee Room Report Card Comments #1156650
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Yep. Sam I am.

    My Sam2 persona is for when I don’t have the time to quote the sources in full. My Patur Aval Assur persona is for when I do have the time to quote the sources in full. Also, it’s helpful for when I want to take two different sides of an issue. I take one side as Sam and one side as Patur (see for example http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/shmuly-yanklowitz-novominsker-and-oo-theology )

    Sometimes it gets to the point where I accuse myself of kefira (see http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/maybe-we-all-should-stop-getting-drunk-on-purim/page/2#post-514492 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/maybe-we-all-should-stop-getting-drunk-on-purim/page/3#post-529780 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/maybe-we-all-should-stop-getting-drunk-on-purim/page/3#post-529783 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/maybe-we-all-should-stop-getting-drunk-on-purim/page/3#post-529801 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/maybe-we-all-should-stop-getting-drunk-on-purim/page/3#post-529805 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/maybe-we-all-should-stop-getting-drunk-on-purim/page/3#post-529879 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/maybe-we-all-should-stop-getting-drunk-on-purim/page/3#post-529902 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/maybe-we-all-should-stop-getting-drunk-on-purim/page/3#post-529910 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/maybe-we-all-should-stop-getting-drunk-on-purim/page/3#post-529938 )

    Sometimes I just like to talk to myself (see http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-are-some-people-so-smart/page/3#post-533551 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-cant-women-get-modern-smicha-and-become-rabbis/page/4#post-532715 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/why-cant-women-get-modern-smicha-and-become-rabbis/page/4#post-533664 )

    Sometimes I accuse myself of misunderstanding gemaros (see http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/white-skirts-tzenius#post-530675 http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/anti-isreal-goyim-yemach-shemom-and-anti-isreal-jews#post-538870 )

    Sometimes I forget my past (see http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/zionism-why-the-big-debate#post-541745 )

    Sometimes I object to my own thread (see http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/yavam-inheriting-father-who-was-a-ger#post-530433 )

    And many other quirks which are too numerous to be listed.

    November 20, 2014 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm in reply to: West Hempstead #1210726
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    [all emphases added]

    Note to all grammarians and typographologists: When I originally wrote my post I had italicized several phrases within the bolded section to have an emphasis within an emphasis, so I used the plural “emphases”. Later I decided that it didn’t look good like that so I edited the post and removed the italics, leaving only one emphasis. But I forgot to change “emphases” to “emphasis”.

    November 20, 2014 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm in reply to: Have some respect, please! #1043872
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    And R’ Ovadia Yosef (Yechaveh Da’at 2:28) writes:

    ??????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ???????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?????”? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ???”? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?’ (???? ??) ?????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ???????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???, ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? (?? ??:) ???? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? (????? ??? ??? ?) ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???”? ??????? ????? (???? ??) ??????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???”? ???? ????? ?”? (???? ??) ?”? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ???”? ??? ???? (??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?? ??”?) ??”?

    ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ???”? ???? ???? (???? ?) ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ???????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???

    ?????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? (?? ?? ?”?) ??? ??? ?????? ??”? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ????? ???”? ?????? ???? (???? ??) ??? ??? ???”? ????? ???? ???? (??? ???? ???? ???? ??) ???? ??? ???? ??? ?????? (???? ???) ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?????”? ??”? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????”? ????? ???? (???? ??? ??? ?) ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ???? (???? ??) ???? ????? ???”? ???? ???? (??) ???? ????? ?? ???? ????”? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ????? (????? ? ??? ??) ???? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???”? ??? ??? ?”? (???? ?) ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ?? ??????

    ??? ?????? ?? ???? ???????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???”? ??? ????? (???? ???) ?????? ?? ????? ???? ???? (???) ?? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? (??:) ??????? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?”? ??? ??? ??? ????”? ????? ???? ??? ???? (???? ?? ?”? ??) ??? ??? ???”? ??? ????? ????’? (???? ??) ????? ??? ????? (???? ??? ??”?) ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???????? (???) ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???”? ??? ????? ??? ? (???? ??) ??? ??? ???”? ??? ??? ?? ??? ????

    November 20, 2014 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm in reply to: Have some respect, please! #1043871
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    Randomex:

    The point of my post was to demonstrate that there is such a thing as kavod for non-Jewish kings. However, it is also to show that it is significantly less than for Jewish Kings. The point of the Radvaz was to apply it even to officials who are not kings. His last part can arguably be applied to a President.

    R’ Moshe Shternbuch (Teshuvos V’hanhagos 2:139) writes:

    ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?????????? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ???’ ?????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ?”? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ??”? (??”? ?”? ?”?) ???? ????????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ????”? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????? ????”? ?????? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??

    ??? ??????? ??? ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ??”? ?????? ???? ?????

    ??”? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ???????

    ??????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???

    November 20, 2014 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm in reply to: #Dating a guy who works a behind the counter job #1044250
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    Translation:

    R’ Meir says “a man should always teach his son a clean and easy trade”… Abba Gurion the Man of Tzadian in the name of Abba Guria says “a man should not teach his son [to be] a donkey driver, a camel driver, a potter, a sailor, a shepherd, or a shopkeeper, for those trades are trades of robbers.” R’ Yehuda says in his name “most donkey drivers are wicked and most camel drivers are worthy. Most sailors are pious; the best of doctors to Gehenem and the worthiest of butchers is the partner of Amalek”… The Rabbis taught “anyone whose dealings are with women, his character is bad, for example goldsmiths, flax hatchellers, millstone sharpeners, spice peddlers, wool dressers, barbers, launderers, blood-letters, bathing attendants, and tanners. We do not appoint from them, a king or a high priest. What is the reason? Not because they are invalid but because their trades are lowly.” The Rabbis taught “Ten things were said about a bloodletter: 1) he walks on his side 2) his spirit is haughty 3) he leans while sitting 4) he has a grudging eye 5) he has an evil eye 6) he eats a lot 7) he excretes minutely 8) he is suspect in regards to forbidden relations 9) he is suspect in regards to theft 10) he is suspect in regards to spilling blood.”

    Bar Kapara expounded “A man should always teach his son a clean and easy trade.” What is it? R’ Yehuda said “embroidering”.

    It was taught “Rebbe says ‘there is no trade which becomes extinct. Fortunate is he who sees his parents in a superior trade; woe to he who sees his parents in a disgraceful trade. The world cannot exist without perfumers and without tanners. Fortunate is he whose trade is perfuming; woe to he whose trade is tanning.'”

    November 20, 2014 5:20 am at 5:20 am in reply to: Have some respect, please! #1043868
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    Berachos 9b:

    ??”? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ???”? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???”?

    Berachos 58a:

    ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???????? ?”? ????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???’ ????? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??????

    Levush Orach Chaim 224:8:

    ?? ?? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ?? [??] ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ????? ????

    Radvaz 1:296:

    ???? ???? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?????? ??????

    ????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ??”? ????? ?? ?”? ????? ?”? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ???? ????????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??????… ??”? ??? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ??”? ??”? ?”? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ???’ ??? ?? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????”? ??? ??? ???? ??”? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ?”? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??”? ???? ???????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ???????? ????? ????? ??? ?”? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ???”? ???? ???? ???? ?”? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ???”? ?????? ?? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ??”? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?”? ????’ ??????’ ???? ??? ????’ ??????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????”? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ???????? ????? ????? ??? ???’ ?”? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ??”? ?????

    November 20, 2014 4:22 am at 4:22 am in reply to: West Hempstead #1210724
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    But young Israel has an israeli flag and you can’t go into a shul with an Israeli flag

    Igros Moshe Orach Chaim 1:46:

    ????? ????”? ??????? ?? ?????? ???”? ??????? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?”? ???? ???”? ??”? ????? ??? ???”? ????”? ???? ????? ???????? ????”? ????? ????”? ?????? ??????

    ??? ???? ????”? ????? ???? ?????? ????”? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ???”? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?????”? ????? ???? ??”? ?? ?????? ????? ????”? ??? ???????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??”? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ????? ????”? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ?????”? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ??”? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????”? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????”?

    ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??????”? ?? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??”? ???? ?”? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ???????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????”? ??????? ????? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?????”? ???? ???? ????? ??”? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ??”? ?? ??? ???? ?????

    ??? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?”? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???

    ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ?????”? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?”? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?”? ????? ?????? ???

    ???? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???????? ??? ?? ???? ?????

    ??? ????”? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?’ ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?????

    ?????, ??? ?????????

    [all emphases added]

    November 19, 2014 10:26 pm at 10:26 pm in reply to: #Dating a guy who works a behind the counter job #1044246
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    Kiddushin 82a:

    ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ????… ??? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ????… ??? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ???????? ???????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ????? ????? ???????? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ????????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?? ????? ???? ???????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ???????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???????? ??????

    November 19, 2014 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm in reply to: Searchin for a ????? #1042791
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    Haleivi:

    Bamidbar Rabba 19:13:

    ??? ?? ???”? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ?? ???”? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? (????? ??) ???? ???? ?? ???? ?’ ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???

    November 19, 2014 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm in reply to: Mishpacha vs. Family First #1043719
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    Lior:

    I usually just read the editorials, but Ami seems far more right than Mishpacha.

    November 19, 2014 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm in reply to: ALL ABOARD- PROJECT IMPROVE #1045650
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    Randomex:

    I’m not sure I entirely get your post, so I’ll just say that once I expended all the time and effort into writing Freud’s theory in Hebrew, I wasn’t going to go back to the English. Also, it’s so much more awesome in Hebrew. What a shame that no one will ever see it. I wonder if one of the moderators can tell me if there was a specific part that was objectionable which I can take out and then post the rest.

    November 19, 2014 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm in reply to: shidduch problem #1042841
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    Randomex:

    I think you need to read http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/seminary-vs-sherut-leumi/page/2#post-538070 and http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/paa-vs-pba

    As for your actual point, I guess the way to figure it out would be to see if someone with no interest in getting married has an interest in marrying his/her bashert.

    It could be that I was joking though.

    November 19, 2014 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm in reply to: Ever seen a forest animal die of old age #1042755
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    Now to really answer the original question:

    Tzlach on Berachos 17a:

    ??? ??? ???? ??????

    ????? ??? ????? ????? [emphasis added]

    ??? ????? ????’ ?? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ?”? ??? ??? ?????? ???????? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? [emphasis added]

    ??? ????? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ??????

    November 19, 2014 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm in reply to: ISRAEL SITUATION QUESTIONS #1042952
    Patur Aval Assur
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    (Eftachbchinor: I have been keeping to the mandate you gave me, but I think the mandate itself would mandate that I respond here.)

    1) There are several stories in the Talmud about the Angel of Death being unable to kill someone because he was engaged in Torah study. (E.g. King David in Shabbos 30b, Rav Chisda in Makkos 10a, Rabbah Bar Nachmeini in Bava Metziah 86a.)

    2) Rabbeinu Bechayei in Kad Hakemach “Torah(A)” discusses this idea and then raises the question:

    ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ????

    and answers:

    ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?????

    3) As to other mitzvos, this is discussed in Kiddushin 39b. The Gemara records that R’ Yaakov and (according to one version) Acher saw someone ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?? ????? ???????? ??? ??? i.e. he was simultaneously fulfilling ????? ?? and ????? ??? and he died. R’ Yaakov used this as the impetus for his shita of ??? ???? ???? ???? ????. However, it seems from the Gemara that even within ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? there is a concept of ????? ???? ??? ?????? and therefore the Gemara attempts to explain how the person could have died. The Gemara’s conclusion is that it was ???? ?????? and ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????. There are other potential ways to answer as well, involving different aveiros, but as people have pointed out, we don’t want to speculate about this.

    Also, the Maharsha on this Gemara references the Mishnah in Avos (4:19) which says ??? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ??????? which many commentaries explain as referring to the fact that we can’t understand H’s calculations about why bad things happen to good people and vice versa. (See http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/the-world-to-come-and-gilgulim#post-531184 and the continuation there.)

    November 14, 2014 4:09 am at 4:09 am in reply to: Searchin for a ????? #1042787
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    Here’s a link (to my source, not Letakein’s source) if you want to see it inside:

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40224&st=&pgnum=122

    November 13, 2014 11:55 pm at 11:55 pm in reply to: Searchin for a ????? #1042785
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    You don’t need the Chida. It was already said by R’ Eleazar of Worms several hundred years earlier:

    ??? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ???’ ?’ ????? ????? ????? ?’ ????? ??’ ??????

    ??????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???”? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?? ?? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????’ ?? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?”?

    November 13, 2014 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm in reply to: V'nishmartem Meod L'nafshoseichem #1178131
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    Haleivi:

    A non-Jew does not qualify as Chazal using it. All the more so when the Maharsha points out that that is not what the pasuk was referring to. And my kashya wasn’t that the Rambam didn’t mention it. My kashya was that R’ Schachter said that the Rambam does mention it and I don’t know of anywhere where the Rambam mentions it. To that end I quoted four places where the Rambam discusses the idea of not hurting yourself and he doesn’t mention this pasuk.

    November 13, 2014 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm in reply to: This is Not Related to the Theological Conundrum #1074489
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    I’ll explain what I’m doing with the Maharatz Chayes:

    The Gemara in Sotah 2a says ?? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???’ ?? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?’ ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???

    Tosafos there asks why the Gemara didn’t use the answer of ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? in Moed Katan 18b where the Gemara contradicted the statement of ?????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? with Shmuel’s statement of ???? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ???. The Maharatz Chayes objects to Tosafos’s question. He says that the Gemara in Moed Katan couldn’t give this answer because Shmuel can’t make a statement ???? ???? ??? without specifying that it only applies to a specific case i.e. zivug sheini. Similarly, I am saying that the Gemara wouldn’t say noach lo shelo nivra if it only meant a case of lekanter. I’m not saying that this is a fatal kashya. But I do think that it’s a point.

    November 13, 2014 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm in reply to: V'nishmartem Meod L'nafshoseichem #1178129
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    Sam2:

    Thanks for the link. R’ Shachter quotes the Maharsha which I quoted. But then he says that the Rambam quotes the pasuk of “Venishmartem me’od lenafshosaichem” in Mishneh Torah. But I have not seen such a Rambam. In Hilchos Chovel Umazik 5:1 the Rambam writes:

    ???? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?? ?????

    and in Hilchos Shevuos 5:17 he writes ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????

    and in Hilchos Rotzeach 2:2 he writes:

    ??? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ???

    ??? ????? ?? ????

    ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???

    and in Hilchos Deios 4:1 he writes:

    ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????????

    In none of these places does he mention “Venishmartem…”

    Do you happen to know what R’ Schachter was referring to? Because I have been unable to find his source.

    November 13, 2014 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm in reply to: Snoring #1042049
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    Health:

    While it is true that we hold ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???, there is a difference between a regular ???? and an ???? ????. As Tosafos in Bava Kamma 27b points out:

    ???”? ????? (?? ??:) ?????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??? ???????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ???? (???? ?? ???.) ??? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ????????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ????? (????) ???? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? (?”? ?? ??: ??? ?”? ????) ?????? ???? ????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?”? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?’ ????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ???????? ?????? (?”? ?? ??:) ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??”? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??????

    Tosafos goes on, but I quoted the main point.

    See also the Beit Yosef in Choshen Mishpat siman 421:

    ????? ??????? ???? ?”? ??? ?’ ???? ???? ?? ????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ??????? ??”?

    And the Rema in Choshen Mishpat 378:1:

    ?????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??????

    I’m not saying it is, but it is possible that snoring would be an ???? ????.

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