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It’s the ideal. Sometimes it isn’t possible to do both, and you are unfortunately forced to take whichever you think is MORE important.
Alaska is no less accessible (just a long ride) by car, than Wyoming and Salt Lake City (which are long drives themselves, from NY.)
Nobody disagrees with the fact that it is better to have the mother home to raise the kids full time. But in a situation where you cant have that AND a Kollel father and husband at the same time, which of those two has to fall by the wayside? The answer is, you take whichever you think is MORE important: a mother always being home or a father who is the biggest talmid chacham he can be. Yes, a woman’s place is at home. But also yes, the type of home you are supposed to have is a Torah home, a Torah-husband and Torah-father at its helm. The question is, if you can only have one of those two positive elements of a home, which is more important? The answer is having a husband and father who is a Talmid Chacham, or better yet, the biggest Talmid Chacham he can be, is the more important of the two. So if you can have both, fine; if not, then we choose learning. Furthermore, there is a special concept surrounding the Mitzvah of learning that does not apply to any other Mitzvah, a concept that affects both Halachah and Hashkafa, that is, Torah learning in the world is so important that we prioritize Torah learning in a way that we would never do with other Mitzvos.
Let me break it down in simpler terms for you.
The role of men and women in Jewish life, as defined by the Torah and expected by halacha, greatly differs from that of the 20th/21st century egalitarian pluralistic modern western societal expectations. So yes, a woman’s place is at home.
arc, that’s a good idea, but the OP indicated she doesn’t want to broach it with someone who knows her. Hence the gedolei poskim mentioned were advised to her.
No evasiveness at all. You missed the answer.
You are thinking secular (i.e. an American); I am talking like a Jew (i.e. Torah).
No. We’re light years ahead of that.
We’re talking about 5771.
Men are expected to be in the field, whilst women are expected at home.
That’s because men drive 74 percent more miles per year than women.
The investigators, who published their results in the July issue of Epidemiology, found that although teenage boys started off badly, with about 20 percent more crashes per mile driven than teenage girls, males and females between ages 20 and 35 were equally at risk of being involved in a crash, and after age 35 female drivers were at greater risk of a crash than their male counterparts.
Lead author Guohua Li, MD, PhD, associate professor of Emergency Medicine at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, and of Health Policy and Management at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, said, “Although risk-taking behaviors may contribute to the excessive injury mortality among men and younger drivers, up to now age and sex discrepancies in death rates from motor vehicle crashes have not been well understood.”
The investigators determined that about half of the 3.1-fold difference between the sexes’ fatal crash involvement rates was due to the fact that males’ crashes were more severe. Another 40 percent was due to the fact that men, who on average drove many more miles than women, thus had a greater opportunity of being in a crash; and 8 percent because of gender differences in “crash incidence density,” the number of crashes per million person-miles.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/06/980618032130.htm
Driving is natural for boys. Men have been in the drivers seat for millennia.
growinggirl: Rav Belsky is one of the gedolei poskim of our generation, and as mentioned very reachable and easy to relate to. He is a Rosh Yeshiva at Torah V’daas. The other poskim mentioned above, Rav Reisman and Rav Gornish are also big poskim that are reachable. You can go with any of these highly recommend Talmidei Chachomim and Tzadikim.
Hatzlocha and Good Shabbos!
charliehall, you have no justification referring to HaRav Yehuda Levin shlita, a talmid muvik with the backing of Hagadol HaRav Avigdor Miller zt”l, without his title. Especially after your protestations when the title is stripped of someone who truly doesn’t deserve it, such as Avi Weiss. Such hypocrisy is astounding.
So the question then becomes whether he/she is a “healthy weight” or not. Nothing to do with overweight per se.
pascha bchochma, you said you are not opposed to it. The girl from the other thread said she supports it. She also said how she feels women would too benefit.
General Snooze? He retired.
And then the coffee room grew up and had real discussions. 🙂
oomis: It is the Gemorah who makes that moral equivalence of sinas chinam and too much cosmetics both bringing about the churban bais hamikdash.
Are you equally perturbed that the Torah blames women for bringing death to the world?
hello99: It is more than just theoretical. It is practiced openly and unimpeded by thousands of Mormons in Utah, Texas, Arizona, British Columbia, and elsewhere.
I addressed the legalities earlier above, similar to how the Mormons practice it.
What do you want from me? All those against shaving were previously cited.
Nesei sefer venechzei.
I heard of Teimanim who have more than one. Don’t know if they married back in Yemen to both, before moving out of the country. I also heard some Sefardim came to Eretz Yisroel with more than one, when they emigrated in the early days of the State.
Some Mormons do it. The way they keep it legal is by not having a civil marriage with more than one. It is only illegal if there is more than one civil marriage in the U.S. Otherwise its just as legal as every other goy who has a bunch of girlfriends or lives unmarried with more than one woman in his house and whatever other crazy lifestyles the goyim do. Some of it may be nuts, but the law doesn’t bother anyone with an alternative lifestyle these days.
hello99: According to your own description of what the Tur says, it is almost a side point of the discussion and doesn’t directly discuss the issue of beards as its main point.
But to answer your question, who can argue with you? From previous citations, amongst others they would include:
The Chofetz Chaim
Rav Schach
The Chazon Ish
Rav Chaim Kanievsky
Rav Elyashev
Minhag avoseinu beyodeinu, Minhag Yisroel Torah Hu.
charliehall, I agree with you that the emphases in the frum community on physical attributes (and money) has gotten extremely bad in the past number of years, nevertheless I wouldn’t go so far as to say it has C”V gotten worse than the goyim. But you are correct that we should be ashamed of ourselves.
That would depend on which shitta you are going by, apparently.
So the wife isn’t satisfied since she isn’t receiving the most ostentatious jewelry, doesn’t get the most fashionable clothing, and doesn’t live in a big enough house? She needs to grow up.
aries – what you said works both ways. your judging those who in your opinion are what you consider “too judgmental”, is no less judgmental on your part of them. your complaint can be said on any topic, i.e.:
it is really telling that when the trait of “pritzus” is brought into the forefront the best anyone can do is yell “shut up” because one mention it as a trait that needs to be worked on and be reigned in.
Well if you want to label me “JUDGE” for harping on the fact that I don’t appreciate when Jews dress inappropriately then go ahead. Talk about me and what I am saying because the faster this “pritzus” stops the faster tznius will take over.
That was very judgmental of you aries2756 – to accuse your fellow yidden of being judgmental. Why did you let that escape your keyboard, to let everyone know what you feel is wrong with other yidden and knock the next guy?
Moq, what’s a female ally?
And what do you mean its always been this way in the secular world? It seems to me, in the secular world therapy isn’t considered as embarrassing. Patients meet each other in the waiting room for example. By frum therapists, they generally have a hiding room, not a waiting room – so one patient shouldn’t see who anyone else is.
“I don’t see why it would be an un-yeshivish thing to do.”
umm, you can imagine a yeshivishe mother dentist servicing frum male patients??
don’t kid yourself.
Health: General Anesthesia can also be life threatening. As many medical procedures. Read the form you sign.
This discussion is mute. Because if a person is being treated for these “mild” issues, if they don’t want people (including shidduch prospects) to know, they simply won’t say anything and no one will be the wiser (unless the person acts out his issue in public.)
If someone sees a therapists for anxiety, and he doesn’t wear his anxiety on his sleeve in the street, no one will know he sees a therapist.
very true mw13. some of us have been saying this all along.
why don’t you please describe the rashi.
that’s because tznius was a 100% given. he didn’t look for a non-killer either, since that was a 100% given. nowadays, unfortunately, tznius isn’t a 100% given.
lesschumras, that story has too many missing pieces. beis din doesn’t grant or deny civil divorces. so essentially she lost in beis din so she ran to civil court?? that’s the problem so many times. and btw, halachicly the father has the right (and obligation) to decide about his sons education. sounds like the bd did everything correctly. im even surprised they authorized him to give the get before she dropped and undid going against halacha by using the goyishe court.
In principle, I believe rebdoniel’s approach is wonderful and a great idea. It isn’t in your face. These days there are all kinds of people handing out all kinds of flyers, from suit stores, barbers, and from the red light district. So an idea like rebdoniel isn’t going to offend too many recipients, considering what else they get. And it just may work for some people. Even if 1 in 100 thinks twice afterwards, its mission accomplished. Even goyim are required to be tznius, which is actually common sense.
I agree, it would be preferable if women distributed these cards.
Absolutely. Did you ever see Rav Elyashev or Rav Shteinman strolling around without one?
NK would support giving up the territories unlike this conference which is supporting the territories.
“A friend of mine and I every week take a stack of index cards and write on them in large letters “Practice Modesty,” and when on the train or walking in the city, we’ll quickly hand these to a pritzusdik-dressed woman, whether frum-looking or not (goyim get the English, and frum-seeming women dressed immodestly get the card which says “Practice Tznius”). We have never been attacked or given a hard time. People take them, and G-d willing, they hold on to it and think about what it says.”
I think that’s a great idea. But I would limit it to yidden. I wouldn’t be worried about what oomis is, no one would mistake it for that and besides it isn’t against the law, but why waste your time on goyim when you could do so much good amongst yidden? Keep up the good work and hatzlocho.
aries, no one denies there is an element of competition amongst women social groupings. but that isn’t so much the issue at hand being addressed. as you yourself admit, in addition to that competition, there is the element of women “dressing to kill” to attract men’s attention. that is the hemline, cut, and provocativeness that you yourself spoke of. and that is wherein lies the major problem.
sister bear, even if them dressing to get noticed by men is secondary to their intra-women competition, it is still 1,000% wrong.
SJS: That may explain the designer stuff etc., but doesn’t explain the rising hemlines and tight clothing which is a larger problem than the designer stuff.
SJS: That’s not what Sacrilege is saying. She is admitting women dress to be noticed by men.
“but a good father should want his kids to be primarily by the mother…for heaven’s sake!”
IF they’re nursing. otherwise, if he can and wishes to care for them he should have at least an equal right for custody in court (goyish). for a yid, it should be based on what halacha says.
eclipse, i am speaking generally, not a/t regarding your situation. the goyishe courts are much more corrupt. whoever has the biggest lawyer got a leg up, nothing to do with truth or justice. plus its assur to go to them. beis din needs to decide halachicly.
eclipse, since you are talking abt the goyishe courts, you are definitly wrong. as a general rule (meaning all things being equal), the BEST dads can hope for is 50/50. the mom can often get full custody, and perhaps usually does. even if all things are equal. (meaning, for example, two parents equally capable to bring up the kids.) as a rule the courts will give preference to the mom. otherwise, IF the dad’s lucky he’ll get 50.
and if we’re talking about frum ppl, anyways it should be based on the Torah rules not the goyishe court.
eclipse, my point really was that I don’t think from a secular point of view one gender should have automatic or assumed preference for custody. and for religious reasons, custody should be adjudicated based on jewish law, not goyish.
apushuta, obviously you’re wife is a tzanuah b”h. pesel is referring to prutzas.
what mdd was answering aries (who objected to the phrase “so called frum girls” regarding prutzas) that just as someone who believes in the Torah and calls themselves orthodox but eats treif isn’t frum, someone who believes in the Torah and calls themselves orthodox but wears short skirts isn’t frum.