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so many questions ….
so many questions katan , somejew and ujm are ignoring …
why are they not answering ….
does it have anything to do with the possibility that they simply do not have the answers …..
does it have anything to do with the possibility that they fear that their own answers will incriminate their own shittot …..
.
.Lol.
AAQ is looking down on haredim for their ‘groupthink’ and lack of independent thought
all the while
AAQ’s comments reveal astonishing groupthink and lack of independent thought
as is obvious in his blind adherence to ‘indexes’ and ‘scores’ , compiled by ….
.
.AAQ needs to be interrogated stasi like
that’s the only way to keep him in some connection with reality
otherwise he ‘ll keep on suggesting totally disconnected suggestions and inferring that the haredim are to blame for rejecting his fantasies
that’s besides his habitual changing of the goalposts smack in the middle of the game
.
Naive AAQ
Unelected SC [illegally] appropriated for themselves the right to cancel laws passed by the elected MK’s if they deem it ‘unreasonable’ .
Obviously SC deems refraining from gender folly ‘unreasonable’ ,
so there is no use in passing such a law ….
.btw steinzalts was controversial
I myself remember many prominent rabanim coming out publicly against his bonafides
on thev other hands many prominent rabanim did defend him
so in other words – he was controversial ….
.@AAQ
bet that occupants of BOTH trains in your mashal of 1939
would literally give away everything they owned to be able to be on either plane , no difference whether to JFK or to Israel ….
BH that the dilemma today is between JFK and Israel and not between the Soviets and the Nazis …..
.
.if somejew’s INTENT is to get jews to reject normative judaism as accepted by the gdolei yisrael ,
and/or adopt the false kana’ut of NK , does that turn somejew into a meisit umadiach ??at least when we use somejew’s reasoning ….
food for thought ….
.
.@ pure yiddishkeit
you omit the holy avnei nezer who was holek on the holy satmar rav
in other words it is a mahloket rabanim whether the 3 oaths are at all halachically applicable ….
..
Israeli democracy does not merely ‘have weak points’
It is being hijacked ,even as we speak.
By unelected crooks in an illegal way , aided and abetted by collaborators and useful idiots.
It will not be restored until the downfall of those crooks.
the above is a reflection of plain unadorned reality .
ignore it at your own peril .
.
.AAQ
gerar is NOT a ‘palestinian’ city
it is a pelishtim city
substantial difference
another example of AAQ playing loose with reality ….
.Thought that somejew went on an extended holiday
but then he popped up on one of the other threads ….
so mr somejew …
we were in the middle of a conversation …
you were going to prove that zionism is a contradiction to the ikarei emuna ….
you were even going to pinpoint which of the ikarei emuna it contradicts and why …
you were going to prove that it is impossible to be a religious zionist , because those two terms have to contradict each other …
am still waiting ….
.
AAQ :
… German Jews in British internment camps – they were learning about wars of Talmudic times, but totally ignored Normandy and such …
——————–Another example of AAQ’s tenuous grasp on reality .
There were no German jews in British internment camps at the time of Normandy , in the summer of 1944 ….
.
.AAQ :
…. But, as the numbers I quoted above show, Israeli democracy is in a reasonable state overall and is improving over time ….
———————an excellent example of obstinate adherence to the religion of useful idiocy …..
.AAQ
I rather think that the problem with our arguments is
or
that we lack a common starting point
or
that the arguments are not being conducted in good faith [changing subjects and ignoring reality]
or
both
.
.Yaakov yosefs posts are refreshing ….
.lol.
99.99% of orthodox jews reject NK ‘s dangerous folly …
according to somejews crooked reasoning , 99.99% of orthodox jews are mu’m ….
if someone wants to know the definition of lunacy , he should read somejew’s posts ….
.
.most of square’s comments above have merit …
but the heading does not
there are many non zionists who do not hold the oaths as halachically applicable
and nevertheless are not zionists
for many good and valid reasons
.
.AAQ is repeating his folly by proving his point by …. repeating his folly ….
if AAQ would bother to read and internalize my [repeated] post[s] regarding the idiocy of outsourcing your own critical thinking abilities to others
then he would not repeat his reliance on other people judgements re the ‘score’ of countries in their self designed ‘indexes’.
he would use HIS OWN sound judgement and stop being the useful idiot he is making himself into
his blind reliance on these brainwashers [and brainwashed] is fatally detrimental to his discovery of reality as it is
which is the first prerequisite in formulating sound solutions for the problems facing us.
instead he is , by his willful blindness, perpetuating the very problems he claims to address ….
.Yaakov yosef to AAQ :
…. now do you begin to understand what is going on? ….
—it seems that there is an inner , unexplained resistance in AAQ’s psyche , blocking him from ‘understanding what is going on’ …
AAQ prides himself on his openmindedness and preparedness to hear
from people from other and different persuasions and their arguments
why is he closed minded when it comes to establishing what reality really is ????
.
.Community Leaders. Please implement common sense. It would be really sad to see Jewish Americans losing their yiddishkeit because of an ill advised and unprepared move. When your leaders lose their minds and see you as an extension of the state of Israel, it wont help to convince them otherwise. It is a sure call for hizuk in torah and ma’asim tovim !! If you all go to Florida or to Israel – it could happen there too. Hashem is calling his children home , back to Him and they refuse to listen, instead they speak about Aliyah ! Thats ridiculous! Strengthen your selves with Emunah and come HOME , back to your loving Father in heaven ! Anywhere on the globe ! Do not move without consulting a Rav who knows you , your family and your situation .
Otherwise , you are foolishly endangering your own and your children’s yahadut !hello mr somejew
this is not a competition in intellect at all
this is a conversation re the proof that , zionism nowadays, is against any ikarei emuna
where we are still waiting for somejew to substantiate this claim
we are waiting along time already …..
.
AAQ
you are totally misunderstanding the essence of the IDF and the leftist establishment in the legal system and the MSM
so much so , that your suggestions sound like applicable for the moon …
===
you really think that the leftist establishment likes the frum settlers who do serve ?
they are looked at with deep disdain and are considered abominable and hideous
time to open your eyes to …… reality , reality , reality ….
cannot say this pivotal word often enough
this word should lodge itself in your skull and not move until it enters your brain …..
.
.@AAQ
you left out part of my post
seems that this rov knows you well …
or is zocheh that shamayim put the right words in his mouth ….
…………..
that was the correct guess , it definitely is one of those two.=================================================================
re this rav ‘s reaction to your query ….hazon ish writes in letter that if there is no common starting point between two divergent opinions , then arguments are futile
it seems that this rave sized you up – even without reading your posts – as someone with whom he has no common starting points
thats why he withdrew from the argument …..
.
@AAQ
I will repeat :
you change the subject of the argument
the original statement was re comparing : enemy civilians’ life vs own soldiers life
so you changed that to : own soldiers life vs other political or personal objectives
like getting to berlin before the US or a competing soviet general ….
—
was the conversation changed in your post ? yes or no ?
.
.@AAQ
@yaakov yosefas introduction :
we have to use our own sechel rather than outsource our own critical thinking to others ,
especially when we outsource it to those , either less qualified , or more biased than us , or both …
therefore we will have to reexamine all information we take from the outside world , check the facts and reality and thereafter
employ a thorough and critical spotlight to determine what we do or do not accept
otherwise we will fall into the same trap millions of useful idiots fell into.
—
now re the supreme court ….
there are two terms which are very important : de facto and de jure
the reality is that the supreme court calls the shots in ey
so I agree that de facto the supreme courts decisions are binding
—-
the enabling act of 1933 was passed in berlin with over two thirds of the votes
and was de facto law in germany for the next 12 years
but de jure was not the law of the land
thus illegal
therefore all subsequent decrees and regulations which derived their power from this enabling law
were as illegal dejure as their source
same with supreme court in israel
.
@yaakov yosef
I could kiss each and every word you wrote in your post to AAQ
it is time AAQ opens up to reality …
.
.my cousin in Belgium tells me that there is one of the nturei karta there – originally from Manchester England
who travelled to Iran to participate in the holocaust denying conference there
according to ujm
he is covered by the staiplers so called ‘love and respect’ letter ….
ma la’asot …
this very same neturei karta person continued with his nefarious activities ….
and initiated legal action against shechita and mila claiming that they are against animal and human rights
my question to ujm – is that ok ?
maybe we should use the staiplers letter
after all the staipler is referring to neturei karta ? !
who bizhut the letter , enjoy blanket immunity for all their future actions …… ????
ujm ‘s position is plain ridiculous .
.
– form a cybersecurity unit from the computer-educated charedim
– pass army tests or equivalent
– propose to the army to deploy you as a unit
– bonus: include farsi-speaking sefardi charedim
– extra bonus: perform some action against sonei yisroel on your own to demonstrate your capabilities. There are plenty of hackers who do that.
——-NAIVE .
aaq:
rav to aaq : we can’t fully understand politics of another country
—————————–if the nail could talk , he would say: oh , my head hurts , someone banged it so hard …
seems that this rov knows you well …
or is zocheh that shamayim put the right words in his mouth ….
—-
baruch shekivanti – aaq is not sufficiently acquainted with reality in ey .
it shows in nearly every second comment he makes about the situation there
.@AAQ
aaq, I am disappointed that you repeatedly non-respond to me. ignoring the issue raised is NOT an acceptable response to a clear fact . If you have an answer , gezunte heit, let us know what your answer is. Simple ignoring or change of subject might work when you talk to your close friends, but it is not bringing any clarity to an online argument with people you do not know. Try harder.
square seems as brainwashed and closed to facts and reason as somejew and katan ….
seems that I have to ask mehila from all three …..
.
.@yaakov yosef
as you rightly point out , many of the activities of the supreme court in Israel are plainly illegal , as is obvious to any astute and objective observer
.to use their illegal judgement to label non enlistees as criminals
is the moral equivalent of thieves sending innocent lifesaving ambulance drivers to jail
not only are they thieves who ought to pay for their thievery
they also are committing a terrible injustice by jailing innocents and hampering the ambulance drivers’ vital vocation
and to top it all off – the crooked thieves end up giving a mussar derasha to the lifesavers of the ambulance service
if this sounds surreal … that’s because it really is ….
.
.Oh hello mr somejew …
have not seen you for a long time …..
.@AAQ
…. yb quotes chazal and his rebeim in a way that sometimes run against my preconceived ideas and I disagree with his logic because of those ideas and I am looking for the logical argument to present.
—-
the above would be an accurate self description of AAQ ….
.
.AAQ changes the subject of the argument
original statement was re comparing enemy civilians’ life vs own soldiers life
so AAQ changes that to own soldiers life vs other political or personal objectives
like getting to berlin before the US or a competing soviet general ….
this is happening too often …
.
.@AAQ
… this is “nullification of democracy” when both sides reject the others as legitimate. This is not a good siman.
[aaq]—-
this a very good siman
this is a siman of honesty and calling things as they are
instead of politically correct hiding behind feel good slogans
which have no resemblance to reality
.
.
this is not a nullification of democracy at allthis the exact opposite ,
this the DEFENSE of democracy
.
.democracy is translated as ‘will of the people’
whenever nazi’s , communists or crooks masquerading as judges and attorneys, subvert the will of the people
then democracy is in mortal danger
.
.to reject the abovementioned nazi’s , communists or crooks as illegitimate
is absolutely life saving for democracy
your whitewashing of those crooks is the ultimate death knell to democracy !
you should stop your insidious attacks on democracy
.
.@ujm
@non politicalthe concept of zayin tuvei ha’ir is similar to the concept of democracy
.@AAQ
… could you in return ask people to stop saying “arrested for learning Torah”? [aaq]
——————–suggestion accepted.
we will stop saying that .
We will rather say the following true and correct statement : “arrested for dedicating their life for Torah”.
those blatant illegal summonses [or rather kidnapping threats] are the diametric opposite to a life of dedication to torah
at least in the opinion of 99 % of all torah scholars on this planet , as measured in quantity and quality
.
.seems I am winning my bet here
ujm is not responding to the clear objective understanding that staipler is not referring to the neture karta as we call them
not those from once , not those from now
he is referring to the edah people
that much is clear from the context
otherwise mr ujm , WHY IS HE SUDDENLY ADDRESSING THEM in the middle of the letter about voting ?
WHY IS HE NOT ADDRESSING THE EDAH PEOPLE ??
who are the ones who are on record to prohibit voting , and who the staipler mentions specifically in his letter ?
any answer to those questions – mr ujm ??
or are you made out of the same materiel as your compatriots katan and somejew
who only speak when their automated answering machine is working and properly preprogrammed ???
.
.@AAQ
its not a cute proof at all …
its a gross distortion and no proof whatsoever …
it sounds more like willful blindness ….
.
.those so called self appointed ‘guardians of the law’ are nothing more than corrupt and self serving ‘distorters of the law’
.
.the reason why so many are still falling for their charade
is that the so called ‘guards of democracy’ , the ‘free’ press , are
as corrupted as their brothers in crime on the plum comfortable chairs in the courtrooms and legal offices
.hope that their downfall is imminent
and will signify the restoration of power to where it legally belongs …. the innocent citizens of this country .
.bet that ujm will not address my post above
because ….
.
.@non political
in principle I agree with you
but then again I do not have access to AAQ’s private details
I know that he regularly distorts hazal and disforms their message by adding his own ‘sevarot keres’ which are against clear torah hashkafot
but I still cannot judge him re how much is meizid , how much is shogeg , and how much is stam kalut daat
because of lack of personal knowledge as mentioned
was giving him the benefit of the doubt
And AAQ’s classic diversion about negotiating is also irrelevant
what is his opinion re the status of the draftees until negotiation is finalised ?
and who says that it will be finalised at all – don’t forget the other side thinks
it has all the cards , for sure when it has AAQ as opponent …
should they enlist with the sakana to their entire yahdut over their heads ?
because of some [nonexistent] laws ?
because of some vague and privately concocted ideal about ‘half the population’ which has no real source in hazal ?
AAQ’s position is extremely weak
.
.am not sure why AAQ insists on ignoring the imperative not to enlist
i.e. the fact that a significant percentage discards religion altogether
and that the sakanah of discarding religion is enough to warrant hilul shabat according to the poskim lema’aseh
showing that this is equal in severity to pikuach nefesh lfi hahalacha
all his sevarot about laws or other parts of the population are totally baseless in comparison ….
.
.bottom line – habad are wonderful people
but hopelessly sidestep every issue they encounter …
.YY is right – this title IS gross ….
.re graduates from IDF …
I read a quote in the newspapers , coming from RZ educators themselves , saying that 30 % of their students lose their religion in the IDF
and that they still encourage their youth to enlist
because that price [of 30%] is a price worthwhile to pay for such an overarching ideal …..
—
I am shivering while typing such a crooked and outrageous statement
but there you have it
—- from their mouth themselves : it’s THIRTY PERCENT !!!
.
.@AAQ
you do not live in EY
you are not familiar with the mindset there
I do not blame you that you are naive
because you have never ‘felt it on your own skin’ ….
but at least you could have shown some humility here and acknowledge that you do not know
after all , there exist ‘known unknowns’ and on top of that also ‘unknown unknowns’
these realities are in the latter category for you
.
.
there is no need to take offense at being accused of not knowing ‘unknown unknowns’because it cannot be helped , and
no such offense was ever intended
.
.the steipler devoted every ounce of his energy and considerable intellect to one thing : to the master and discover the intricacies of the torah and to write his sefarim
all the rest – including the public statements re public policy were nothing more than an unwelcome and forced distraction
he had zero interest in differentiating between the various political positions of various groups nor about their accurate descriptions
besides , many in those times called the edah people with the title of ‘neturei karta’ …
any OBJECTIVE and UNBIASED reader of his letter , when considering the context ,
will see his objective in this letter
what was the message the steipler was conveying ?
that those who prohibit voting are chashuv , chaviv and should not change their postion.
that’s it .
vetu lo midi ….
.
.it seems from ujm’s comments that he does not want to classify as an UNBIASED observer …..
.
.