Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
for those who are thinking where there is a balance between vaccine and COVID, here are numbers from European statisticians:
for 20-30 y.o – risk of serious complication from AZ is 1 in 100,000. Risk of being in ICU in next 4 months: from 1 in 100,000 to 7 in 100,000, depending on your level of exposure. So, in this case risk seems to be balanced for 20-30 y.o.To adjust to US situation:
– Blood cloth risks of J&J seems to be several times lower than AZ. mRNA vaccines were not observed to have similar levels of risks (with a lot of real world testing).
– Risks from virus exposure are about same as in EuropeSo, it seems that benefits of any vaccine are significantly higher for those over 30-40.
Those in 20s without much exposure (online college students, mothers at home, Torah scholars in small groups) might want to wait for 1-2 months while others, who need it more, are getting vaccines. I am not a medical doctor, this is not a professional advice.>> all 6 of these people (out of 7 million does given !) were young women where they taking OCP’s which are knwon to predispose to blood clots?
this link is yet unclear. Initial reaction to AZ blood clots was similar, but now they are thinking that there were many young women nurses in initial vaccination.
you could put someone’s long comment into a readability score app and you will see grade level of his writing.
ujm >> do you utilize “ma’am” with your female immediate family as you do “sir” with your male immediate family
good question, maybe this: Torah imeha v’musar aviha and kibed et …? Musar may be more associated with discipline and hierarchy, so “sir” would be appropriate. Our attitude towards mothers is different, so maam may be less appropriate.
CTLAWYER, this is Kiddush Hashem even if she is not happy with you.
Common, here I take back my analogy (as it was mine, I can take it back :). You seem generally look at psak as the Army discipline issue – go ask a Rav, “yes sir”. Hashem gave us a mitzva of learning Torah so that we refine our intellect and midos, and learn to restrain ourselves (Beitza 25). So, use an opportunity to learn the issue when asking.
2nd “the cow wants to nurse more than the calf to eat (Pesachim 112). So, surely your Rav wants to teach even as you don’t want to learn.
3rd, halakha WANTS individuals to be able to make decisions, instead of relying on lawyers. That is why we often have simple halakhic rules, such as you can take a chicken if he is 50 amot away from a house (Bava Basra 23). Incidently, this rule is so important that Rav Yirmiyahu, who tried “AAQ” this rule (“what if only one leg is within 50 amot”) was kicked out of the beit midrash until they needed him again many years later. Menachem Elon, Israeli supreme justice, writes that this is core difference between Roman/English/American law, where it is up to the victim to sue – caveat emptor, and Jewish law, where it is a responsibility of an individual to always make sure he is doing thing correctly and not injuring others.
Jewish judges have to take care to receive and analyze facts properly. Same applies whenever we make a judgment about people. In this case, additional information is interesting: the person was wanted for previously fleeing from the arrest and potentially having an illegal weapon. Presuming the cop processed this information, she would be on edge already.
Another issue – if a cop did not behave properly, is it relevant that the other person was behaving illegally/dangerously? shouldn’t the cop behave correctly anyway? I think it matters when we try to understand the big picture. If in most cases of misconduct, the other person is doing something dangerous/illegal – it means that the cops are really not misbehaving on their own, only in difficult circumstances. Then, parents should stop telling children that it is dangerous to be “driving while black”, only that if you are black, it is too dangerous to be doing anything illegal.
the grip is relevant, the color is not relevant when an officer is appropriately looking at the person trying to drive away from being arrested.
maybe the gun needs a speech-recognition module that does not shoot when the officer is shouting “taser”
B siyata d’shemaya, just had a class on Hillul Hashem. Definition giuven by the Rav –
H H = If people see someone who learned Torah and they think his behavior did not become more refined or, worse, became worse. Then, they project these behaviors on Torah. So, all you need to ask – how would someone who sees my actions think about them?example from Chulin – R Pinchas b’ Yair forces the river to let him cross because he is on the way to a great(est) mitzva – pidyon shevuyim (while river claims it is also doing ratzon Hashem and does it right!). He then tells the river to let the next Jew to pass because he is carrying wheat for matzah (a less urgent mitzva). Then, he also tells river to pass for an Arab businessman who joined them on the trip. Gemora’s conclusion – miracle akin to splitting the sea is performed so that a non-Jew will not say that Jews abandoned him on the trip. So, be considerate to other people on a plane, that’s all I am saying.
GH >> someone was punished or suffered bad outcomes for either saying tehillim at the “wrong time” or reciting the “wrong perek” at the right time?
Moshe is credited for saying exceptional responses to Hashem and melachim that achieved great results. It follows, were he to use different responses, he would not have been successful in these cases.
It may be ineffective to daven for a wrong thing if you misdiagnosed the problem. for example, you made an aveira but you think that you did a mitzva and then someone else is harsh to you. So, you then ask Hashem to punish the Rasha (him) and reward the Tzaddik (you).This may involve some tehilim .. Then,if your davening is effective then Hashem will punish the Rasha (you) and reward the tzaddik (him).
Common, seems we just have different business and learning styles.
I regularly ask questions of my lawyer and CPA. Sometime, they explain the logic to me and it helps in my future business decisions, sometimes they review my suggestions and those that work out saved my company some bucks, other did not. Neither of them told me that questions are inappropriate or quit doing business with me. I would ask a Rav before wearing a t-shirt you suggested. I would appreciate if you confirm that there is a Rav that will say this is an appropriate notice.Shekalim, 21
A student asks a question, teacher ignores it. Students goes to find an answer elsewhere, gemora concerns that the teacher has inappropriate question. Turns out, the teacher is worrying about his uncertain parnasa – whether the baker will have bread for him today … a problem for some teachers …Shekalim 21
a saliva in the middle of the road – we presume from a tame person, as he would not be careful and walk in the middle. on a side – from a tahor who was careful. Except during holidays – most people going to Beis Hamikdash are tahorim and go in the middle. Whoever is in a majority goes in the middle.Implications:
– you can evaluate person’s status by where and how he walks (not judge, evaluate for halakhic decisions)
– where majority is in masks, maskless people should walk on a side of sidewalk (or on the road?). in places where majority is maskless, masked people walk on a side. No machlokets, respect the local majority.common, I’ll be interested to learn about ranges of halakha here. I don’t know exact answer. You said several times “what if the answer does not fit” without providing any halakhic references, this does not help me at all.
I am also not sure “exercising rights under US law” concludes halakhic discussion. I understand you are involved into ADA, but how does it affect possible moris ayn? Maybe you can have a sign “no mask based on ADA”. Maybe also wearing a face shield could show people that you are not a total rasha – with an ADA sticker to boot.
You can not say bracha in a Mazda as it is AZ. That is Avoda Zara. You also can’t say bracha over other AZ – Astra Zenica – as astra means “star” and Zenica means nothing, so you don’t want to say brocha over Avoda Zara or over nothing (as in “thanks you for nothing”). It also has questionable performance, so no bracha b’sofek. On a plus side, seems like Wallenbergs still have a share in the company.
other questionable places for bracha, ask your posek –
Subaru (stars, Pleiades), Yugo (sakana), Ford (anti-semite), VW (ditto) esp Rabbit and Beetle – not kosher. Tesla – drives by itself, no bracha requiredRebE, Choosid is well defined in the Gemorah as you are hinting. Why call on people asking if they mean something else?! Judge l’tzad zhut!
Common, I am not advocating against ADA. We are talking about a person flying without a mask based on alleged disability. Given that there are multiple Jews who are bad with masks, how is it not maris ayn? I agree that maris ayn mat be influenced by common assumptions. For example, pareve milk required keeping the bottle nearby but not anymore. I also don’t need to ask shailos for a permission not to fly, someone who is flying needs to ask question whether it is moris ayn or not. I’ll be interested hearing the answer and an explanation
Syag> Which is against the halacha of judging favorably
the question here is inverse – maris ayn is precisely that we should behave in a way that does not cause suspicions, we are not allowed to say – “let them judge me favorably”. If you agree with this halakha, then I presume you’ll change your position.
For example, we just learned in Daf Yomi Shekalim that a person in charge of money in Beis Hamikdash would go into the money room without pockets, short-cut hair, etc to avoid suspicions. They did not require him putting water into his mouth though – as he was supposed to say a brocha.
RebE >> So do not dismiss dikduk outright because of the maskilim who only cared about it.
A good point. Just because maskilim did something, doe ot men it is wrong..
We were confronted with a new phenomenon of Enlightenment ad we still did not figure out what to do. It takes time.. As R Steinsaltz answered about reasons for Shoah and about halochos of electricity – “we will know better in a couple of hundred years”…. So, we had different responses, some proved unsuccessful despite based intentions, like Moses Mendelssohn. Approaches rejecting all innovations looked more successful in a short term, although those approaches might have led many Jews to try assimilation, Reform, etc [that is usual opinion is that Reform was at fault, but maybe O- attitudes allowed Reform]. We also have long term consequences, such as communities lacking professional education and can’t figure out which side the mask is put on.
@AAQ, when it come to rules we follow the rules
from daf yomi discussions: you find ownerless money without simanim, you are allowed to take it.
You don’t have to. You can still make an effort too find the owner. If he is non-Jewish, this could be kiddush Hashem.re: dog. It depends how people will see it. Someone with a dog is probably presumed to be disabled. Currently, someone without a mask is seen as non-complying, people will not think that he might have medically-certified masko-fobia
AAQ
Chafetz Chaim used to travel and sell the books himself (after checking that they are printed correctly).
Maybe that’s the secret?ujm,
on one hand, I looked up the literature again, and see indeed that the data is unclear. Some say it is tensof thousandson the other hand, I don’t think it is counter-intuitive that those communities were started by small groups of traders. do we have records of large community migrations? Northern Europe experienced rapid growth due to advanced in agriculture (beans->proteins->kitniyos) and outgrew early centers and Ashkenazim benefited from that rapid growth.
What is your alternative data?
health >> Very well that the US Vaccines don’t have these types of problems that vaccines in other countries do
I don’t think there was much difference in European and US regulations. You are right that US did not approve AZ yet, but that does not mean that US-approved vaccines might not have had similar, relatively minor, issues. Using these vaccines for high-risk population was surely justified to begin with, and by the current time when low-risk population gets to it, there is a lot of data on safety. AZ case is reassuring that such minor issues are addressed.
>> oh so that’s how it works
rw, you are taking like a posiled child… it is worldwide emergency, various people and organizations are trying to help as much as we can, and you are sitting here commenting that there is not enough certainty. Again, AZ is helping much more people than it hurt. They stopped it wen they noticed a minor problem. Pfizer and Moderna are out for 5 months already, saved a lot of lives, and they have similar monitoring in multiple countries.
Again, your alternatives are either to be isolated (which is fine), or, if you in contact with other people, accept uncertainty of the virus itself. Just what is safer – a full virus that killed millions already (and was possibly designed o kill you) or a vaccine that is designed to help you so far passed various safety tests. Take your pick.
ubiquitin – there are indeed different infinities and some are bigger than others. It may be a cabbalistic concept introduced by George Cantor and labeled as Alef, mabye the only Hebrew math symbols in the sea of Greek letters [just found out that there is also a Bet[.
Infinity of real numbers (aleph_1) is higher than those of natural numbers (aleph_0). Maybe Georg Cantor introduced these numbers as a tribute to his semi-denied Jewish ancestors. He definitely felt that his theories of infinity relate to G-d.
rw>> Problem with vaccine, no can’t be!
exactly, at least with western vaccines, problems are being tracked and identified. So, hopefully you will trust now that the other vaccines are as safe as it is reported.
It is obvious that benefits outweigh the risks for older population, so by the time 30-y.o. are vaccinated, you can already see even the minor problems. So, overall thousands of lives saved so far.
ujm, I was quoting from memory genetic testing results I read about that looked pretty reasonable – Ashkenazim came from a small community of Jewish men. Sephardim are pretty diverse. This would be, I think, in contradiction with Khazar theory.
does it contradict your mesorah? which part of my statement?
1) diversity of Sepahrdim? depends whon we call S. I fthose who were in Spain, then they might have all come from the same place. But we nowdays call every non-A a S, including Persians, Yemenites
2) small group of first men Ashkenazim? what are other views? Note that there might have been more at the beginning, just not all had surviving eineklesujm: exactly, Sephardim are not wearing turbans as their Gedolim did for centuries, how dare they? They simply dress like people around them to fit. I have no problem with that.
>> So long as you are in compliance with the airlines policies
I thought we had better standards than airline policies
>> Maris ayin is only appicable in conficts in halacha
a person who looks Jewish without a mask looks like a person violating government policies and endagering human lives, which is against halakha. Leading to people think bad about Jews. Especially, when such cases are already publicized.
if you respect Jewish tradition, you should wear the same hats as Tannaim and Amoraim did.
the only people who have a good reason to wear black hats are Sephardim. They do it in order to behave like people around them.
>> Ashkenazim came from Eretz Yisroel while Sefardim came from Bovel,
Ashkenazim come from a 100 guys who decided to go North. “Sephardim” are everyone else ..
>> Why force people with antibodies to get the vaccine.
nice, this is a great bridge for people without masks to jump into vax resistance. Did you consult any halakhic authority with these questions?
meirG> its a time to be focused on ruchnius each on their level
One of many good ideas, but you all guys are talking as if there is no pandemic outside that makes every trip a potential suicide or murder. Surely, this should affect your ruchnius even if you don’t infect anyone (or just do not know about it)? A person who raises his hand at another person is a rasha.
also remember that virus may not be aware of airline policies.
If you are not able to wear a mask, you are creating an extra risk and you should use other precautions to protect others and yourself and even to avoid maris ayn: vaccinate, isolate before travel, not travel without a serious reason to, sit in the corner – first class or last row, use face shield
DY >It is permissable
shhh. “I am told” means by my kids, and it is great that they rebel through humras, I prefer it that way! I will only stop them if a humra is used to excuse them from doing something they should do (school work, help at home, etc). In this case, there is no good reason to be meikil even it is allowed. If there is a certain mood for sefirah, then why not follow it.RebE>>> If you get a bargain during sefira, buy it but wait to wear it.
my question here is that the seller creates the bargain, knowing the rules. If it were due to pandemic losses, OK. But this is an annual thing, girls run to the laptops to look at one-day bargains right after yomtov havdala. Maybe, we could simply buy from same company later on and send two check – for 80% and for 20%, signed as tzedokah
Another twist – last year there was a psak allowing music during lockdown if it makes things more tolerable (and prevents covid infracions). We used that. This year, we are machmir on covid, but already adapted and see no need for kulos.
ymribiat, if you are not able to wear a mask, you best choice is to have a staycation and not endanger yourself. If you are able to wear a loose mask, add a face shield over it. and get a vaccine.
RW: -Cases have been going down even before the vaccine, so what exactly are you trying to prove here?
Indeed, cases are going up and down around the world. Now, say, India and Eastern Europe are going up. The peaks seem to be a couple of month long – cases going up, people getting scared again, becoming more careful, cases going down, people relaxing early. I took not a sample, but TOP countries with high vaccination rates, they are in somewhat different areas, cases are going down in all. So, as you are saying, it may be a coincidence, but already probable. With 1-2 months further we will see more. In addition, both Israel and UK report that most of current patients are not vaccinated, that rates per vaccinated person are drastically lower.
This dies not mean that some individuals did not have adverse results from the vaccine, just that overall effects are very very positive. So, statistically, the only reason to delay vaccination is if you are not interacting with anyone. Vilna Gaon would probably need vaccine only when Dubno Maggid was visiting, the rest of the time he could sit by himself and learn.
@common & Milton Friedman – There is no stira between Friedman and me. We are both saying that business creates value in the process of doing business.
Note that Milton Friedman is often somewhat dogmatic and simplistic in his heroic defense of the free enterprise from the socialist plague. One striking example, he praises Hong Kong v. Israel, saying similar sized countries and see how better Hong Kong done w/ pure capitalism … With more time passed, we see that Hong Kong was gobbled by PRC and Israel produced some free enterprise …
So, I would update Friedman with a permission to appreciate mitzvos achieved by business, not just rely on a theorem that business is good, thus I can just pursue whateer I want. When you select a direction for your business, you can select something that benefits Jews/humanity – food, books, medicine, defense, building/creation of new things, rather than buying/selling stocks that would also indirectly be useful, of course.
Also, if you are blessed not to have shareholders, then you are even more free to choose direction for your business.
Yerishalmi Shekalim ~ 13 similarly describes companies who would business with Beis Hamikdash without much profit – either to benefit from name recognition of their pasrtner or to combine business with tzedokah
>> they have no proof that vaccinated CANNOT spread it to others,
let’s look at top vaccinated countries to understand effect on overall propagation:
4 top countries using western vaccines have all decreasing cases, top countries using Sino- and Sputnik are going up (but their whole neighboroods are going up!) . It is still hard to separate temporary trends from long-term ones, but looks promising for Western vaccinesIsrael had 8000 cases daily in January and 400 now
Gibraltar – 130 to 0
UK – 60K to 4k
US 280K to 70KCountries that are using Chinese & Russian vaccines:
UAE – 4k (March) to 2K, Chile – increasing, Serbia – increasing,? Hungary – increasingNechomah – as you mentioned “in and out”. This is the time where governments need to make quick and simple rules that can be easily followed. We have similar ideas in halakha like “lo plug” – do not create rules that can be confusing. Are the current Israeli rules reasonable in general? they appear to be: there are lots of problems with people travelling inappropriately and it is in Israel’s interest to limit that. So, if your son chose to travel to another country during pandemic, he is taking the risk of being inconvenienced somewhere.
Citizenship is a well recognized concept that creates mutual obligations between state and a citizen. So, state is willing to go an extra mile for a citizen. It is great that there are organizations trying to help in such hard cases, but it is “chesed” you are asking for, there is no reason to complain about generally reasonable rules Israeli government is using to save lives. Try to think how you can help the situation rather than create more confusion.
PS I read a story about some American who went to see his sick mother in Australia, travelling through multiple PSR checks on the way. When he finally landed, he is waiting for hours for a bus that will take him to an isolated hotel. He text his Oz brother how annoyed he is. Brother replies – if you do this in your country, you would have done better ..
>> Nowadays girls buy new dresses every second day, should they say Shechiyonu whenever they buy a new drees?
the answer might be – don’t buy so many new dresses so that you can still say Shechiyonu
“I am told” that “kosher” stores start immediate after-Pesach discounts so that you could shop even during sefirah based on a permission not to miss the discount. Is this working out halakhically when two sides play the game knowing how to avoid the rules? Does somewhat pasken that stores can do it to maintain parnasa? Genuinely interested in the answer, even if biased on the side of spending less….
While even a not-fully-vetted vaccine is generally less risky than not-at-all-vetted COVID, it may be fair to prefer one vaccine over the other depending on your risk perception. Here is my non-professional thinking, maybe others know better:
– if you afraid of new mRNA technology, you can get a more traditional J&J one dose. It is possible that they’ll recommend boosters later on. There is a now trial for a 2-dose.
– Moderna has a higher does than Pfizer. So, if you are afraid of side-effects, have immune problems or allergies, Pfizer may be more preferable.
– Pfizer is also now most tested in real-life and applying for full authorization, so side effects and what to do with them can be researched now
– you may want to spend 30 minutes near the site with a friend instead of 15.