Forum Replies Created
BP Totty, your views are so sensible, I’m honestly surprised youre not being throttled with offers.
ir, I agree! For about 3-5 years after high school/sem the girls insist on learners. Fast forward to age 23, 24 after having dated learning guys, some of whom werent the biggest baalei seichel and midos, their eyes open up to other options, and they consider or even prefer learner/earners.
Bodek, re:”This way, if she gets a “no” she can say, “who cares, I don’t want to get married yet anyway.” It’s sad, but if you think about it, its quite true. “
The question remains- what can be done for girls who are constantly getting rejected and few guys are being redd to them, other than Daven?
Posters here dont understand that whether a girl is upset or not that she’s single in her twenties, by the time she’s 24 Shadchanim are offering her, with few exceptions, society’s rejects and commitment phobes. The problem-free guys in the appropriate age group (generally about 3 years older) have already found their bashertes and have committed to marriage.
hello99, anyone can research any topic and come up with “proof” of lies, thats what lawyers and others do for a living!
Are you saying that the Gedolim erred when they signed in agreement to the contrary?
Bodek, your sitch definitely only applies to Chassidish singles.
Unique experience to me!
On this past weekend’s dates, the tables were turned. It’s the girls saying the guys werent enough fun/lively and that was the girls’ reason for rejecting.
sms,oo7, re: “if she’s quiet it just means she needs an extra date or two to open up, which ISN’T BAD! people need to look beyond what they see, it would take away a lot of pain for these girls (yes, it very painful wanting to be yourself and let out of your box, but you just cant bring yourself to do it cuz your too embarrassed. sounds childish, but its true)”
I think every Shadchan I know would agree with you!!! It’s that the boys check out the girls and if they hear any adjective resembling the word quiet, that girl won’t get a first date, never mind a second or third! It’s become about as damaging as the weight issue has been for years.
1- Are there any middle of the road Frumkeit-wise Yeshivah guys (from Tora Vdaas, Chaim Berlin, Chofetz Chaim, etc.) on Frumster, or would they be the exception to the rule?
2- If those kind of guys are hesitant to be on SYAS, where they have the option, if desired, of being private to their chosen Matchmakers, why would they even consider being on Frumster, where all girls can see that they’re on?
I’m not about to read through 130 posts, so
1- What is the going rate in BP/Flatbush these days when you’ve mae a Shidduch with comfortable people on both sides?
2- When is it usually paid?
smartcookie, you’re right. Last night those posts were on for pretty long.
Its probably only one person. Isnt there a way to track him/her by email address, etc.?
jphone, quiet means different things to different people, but still in the same personality category.
Laid back, reserved, shyish, as opposed to spunky, bubbly, humorous……. Thats the best I can do for an explanation. Take anyone you know and they’ll usually have stronger leanings towards one of the two groups, with the latter group becoming increasingly more desirable, as a potential spouse, as time goes on, in my opinion.
I feel a definite shift from years ago, when the former category was the more desirable for a girl.
Feel free to disagree.
striving, Welcome to the club! You’re not the only one who likes those who crack them up! 🙂
jphone, I’ve ben busy redding Shidduchim for over 20 years, and the reasons for rejection are different now than they used to be. I couldnt imagine that this only holds true for the couples I set up, so I have compared notes with other Shadchanim. It’s a recent change in tastes/preferences/priorities. The weight/money factor isnt the only issue anymore. They’re almost taking a back seat to the quiet factor.
amichai, it’s not the use of the word thats the problem, its the behavior on dates.
jphone, not what I meant at all. With the most aggressive mothers. fathers, connections, girls who are reputed not to be the giggly, cutesy, cheery, cracking jokes type, arent selling at the moment even to quiet guys. Guys are looking to be ROFL starting on the first date and beyond. The Aidel, quiet type just isnt desired by guys, other than possibly the budding Roshei Yeshiva types.
yankdownunder, you remind me of someone I know who had three daughters in their upper twenties about ten years ago. He used to say “Ven es vet Kummen, vet es Kummen” (when it will come, it will come), referring to Shidduchim for his daughters. He was very easygoing. He now has three single daughters approaching forty, r”l.
There’s a limit to how much Hishtadlus one has to do, but at the same time, there’s a limit to how laid back one should be. G-d helps those who help themselves (you gotta buy the lottery ticket…. you gotta be in it, to win it).
dunno, if only I could. They’re waiting.
volvie, I have loads and loads of older quiet single girls who arent getting dates.
Laugh all you want, if the guys didnt have as many options (theyre free to date girls of all ages, including those much younger), they might be forced to consider a quieter girl. So AZ, would not be totally off if he says that.
jphone, everyone knows the guys have many more options than the girls. Quiet guys have plenty of opportunities to date both quiet and lively girls. The quiet girls generally dont get “yesses” from the guys, and when they do, they get rejected, because the guys aren’t having “fun” on the dates.
aries2756, BRILLIANT- Thanks! I liked that a lot!
Can we get into interesting, new, SPECIFIC and safe date topics for a first date, that are NOT related to learning or family/schools, because those have already been mentioned above?
Can someone also share dating tips for quiet/shy daters?
AZ, “their male counterparts (with the same “narishkeiten”) are married”.
How right you are.
AZ, I so agree with you about everything you’ve said.
We are all playing “Monday Morning Quarterback”, when we say that the “leftover” girls, have more issues than the married girls. Every time older guys date and get engaged to (much) younger girls, they are lessening the chance of the slightly younger girls of finding a husband. Then we scrutinize these girls, analyze meaninglessly, and say they must have had more issues.
Of the 150 plus dates I’ve made this year, many involving singles 25+, I see guys having more and bigger “issues” than girls. And I must add, there is NO one with NO issues.
Just because Binah gave their (and whoever did the research for them) point of view, doesn’t mean it’s Toras Moshe.December 31, 2009 12:20 am at 12:20 am in reply to: Singles Over the Age of 25 Should Deal Directly With the Shaddchan #671693
BP Totty, and how do the singles find out if the other is interested if the Shadchan has been asked to back out?
The guy calls after the second date, if he’s interested, and doesnt call if he’s not? And the poor girl has to wait and wonder for days?December 30, 2009 5:15 pm at 5:15 pm in reply to: Singles Over the Age of 25 Should Deal Directly With the Shaddchan #671685
You’d be surprised at what an aggressive Shadchan can convince a single to do (date), if parents aren’t in the loop. Sometimes singles are very desperate and willing to date just about anyone of the opposite gender and once the dating starts, it has a life of its own, and you cant stop it, or the reverse, not willing to date anyone…I think parents’ input is beneficial from the get-go. Twenties isn’t real adulthood yet.December 30, 2009 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm in reply to: Singles Over the Age of 25 Should Deal Directly With the Shaddchan #671681
Nnnnnnnnooooo. I’ve seen way too many singles who made decisions totally on their own, and ended up admitting that they should have listened to their parents about the Shidduch (love/infatuation is blind and age has nothing to do with that). They say you know a Shidduch is Bashert if the parents of boy and boy like the girl, and the parents of the girl and the girl like the boy.
In the case where the parents and the single are on a totally different page, that’s different.
While I’ve heard of Shidduchim working where all were not in agreement about the Shidduch, it usually causes problems down the line.
oomis1105, how is that different no matter who or what the source of the Shidduch is? Can you limit yourself to dating only those who your relatives and close friends know personally? BTW I’ve heard of references being quite candid.
Anyhow, as a single ages, whether a boy or girl, I think people call references less and less, and rely more on networking with people for info (whether right or wrong). After a while the single and their friends get the same names over and over, mostly.
oomis1105, generally speaking it’s the singles responsibility to find out about one another. Honest Shadchanim will at least hint about an issue they’re aware of. If they dont know, they dont know. What about cousins or neighbors, who know one another for years, only to find out stuff after marriage, and the marriage doesnt last. There are no guarantees in life. I dont think Shidduchim made on websites or weekends have a lower likelihood of success, statistically.
mom12, I’m OK with that (but how?). There are way too many singles/parents out there who are upset, to put it mildly, about not being able to find Shidduchim.
The object of the game is RESULTS RESULTS RESULTS ENGAGEMENTS ENGAGEMENTS ENGAGEMENTS. And they happen.
happy girl and oomis1105: What would you do to change the sitch?
There are engagements that happen after all of these weekends. I’m not familiar with what or if the guys pay, but I’m sure all the organizers of the different singles weekends would love for many guys to come on their own.
(Mods, I’m offering a solution)
youdontknowme, you can join SYAS for a day, for free, and I’ll notice you (that’s one place I’m a rather busy Matchmaker, with an eye out for singles w. Yesh. leanings), and then you’ll know I’m as real as can be and who you’re dealing with. I will then have your contact info and email you through the site.
I offered my email address but it was removed.
youdontknowme, Boy would I like to see your Shidduch resume!
youdontknowme, sounds like this specific Shadchan is a very rare breed- a one girl Shadchan. If you’re a 5′ 5″ guy, or a unique personality- type, for example, or some other hard-to-fit situation, maybe the Shadchan doesn’t know any other girls who fit the bill. There are lots of Shadchanim. Why deal with one who makes you feel uncomfortable and doesnt take no for an answer?
But truthfully, many happy Shidduchim have happened with a little coersion in the beginning.
melechalmaklo, thanks. Know any single guys? Send them my way. I have an army of single girls, all seriously looking to get married who are meeting guys they feel are looking for everything in one in a girl, for years straight, and unwilling to settle for anything less.
estherh, I like that. Hamevorech Yisborach works for male, female, singular and plural. No thinking needed.
Pareve Cheesecake, always a hit! Either fruit-topped or Halvah, or Caramel, or Mousse, Mocha….. decorated with chocolate shavings.. caramelized nuts… there are sooooo many recipes out there.
I am all for meeting girls on my own, which I do as well.
Where do you go? This is very helpful info. I know lots of girls who would love to meet a guy on their own.
So long as the numbers are skewed strongly in favor of the boys why in the world should they go to shadchanim. They have plenty of names to chose from without going to shadchanim. The girls have no choice – so they do whatever the can get a date.
Yes, true, whether fellow CR mates agree or not.
So what happens to the guys once they get older and are not married? well, they become less frum, drink alcohol, do drugs, become lax in halacha with girls, become lax in kosher…they move out of their parents home …..
Not neccesarily, the unmarried guys, as they age, often just want a more modern lifestyle including TV and Movies and a more cool, possibly less Tzniusdik girl. Few go to the lengths you describe.
Okay, so if I would have a daughter that is in high school I would make sure that she starts going out as soon as she is 17 with guys that are between the ages of 20-25. That way she’ll actually have a shot at getting married since she will have a head start.
No way. Maybe in Sephardic or Chassidic circles, a 17 year old is desirable, but in the Yeshivish world, a girl has to provide means of support, meaning either a rich Dad or an education. In the college world, few if any guys will go out with an not-yet educated girl.
HAPPY GIRL, looks like we’re not too far from allowing, conducting and promoting singles events in our community. I’ve heard talk about that. Some of the fear has been that some singles might become more “modern” as a result of meeting people from slightly different backgrounds.
That’s happening even without them going to singles events, as singles get older.
The thinker/questioner in me, while reading ICOT’s above post, made me wonder if there are any Gedolim, Rabbonim who were open about personal mental illness of any kind. I find it hard to believe that there are no Gedolim/Rabbonim with personal experiences in this area.
If we’d like the community at large to look upon sufferers with dignity, we need some of our role models to be forthcoming about any personal experiences they might have had with bouts of depression, and how they managed.. etc. I think it would be a great help to sufferers.
melechalmaklo, may I respectfully disagree.
“going back to the topic of saying no to dates…firstly, i do not agree that the boys say no after dates. most of the time, probably 80% of the time, the girls say no. It’s the boys who are being rejected. The reason for this is the shidduch crisis itself. When a boy says yes to a girl, he looked into five or ten other girls and said yes to the one that fit what he was looking for most. When he goes out, there is already a bigger chance that he will like the girl after her resume passed his cross examination. Just the fact that a boy says yes is already a big push for a girl to go out. Of course girls don’t just go out with everyone who says yes, but there is MUCH less room for nixing. So, of course, when boys and girls go out the girls say no. There wasn’t much pulling her from the beginning!……”
Interesting theory, but we must be living on different planets. I’ve made in excess of 150 dates in the last year. Once a guy is 27 or older, he has already dated close to, if not more than, 100 girls, in most cases and been “red” and rejected many more. After that he goes on dates wanting one girl’s looks, the other girls personality and the next girl’s family, and yet the other girl’s career/ambition/lack of ambition. The girls cant win, no one girl has it all, and the guys continue on their “not so merry” go round dating, not wanting to settle because they always have new girls ready to date them! Girls get older and have less and less opportunities, and older boys often get engaged to much younger girls, and the guys know it.
baltashchis, most posts here are relevant.
tzippi, ” it’s amazing that people who can spend 4k a year on this site are having problems getting shidduchim redt.” Brilliant!
Those that have that kind of money already have the ears of all the top Shadchanim.
ronrsr, you tell your story so emotively, you’d be a raging success at redting Shidduchim. I’m on line already.
oomis1105, re: “Shadchanim have to listen to and respect what people say to them. These are not naarishkeiten”.
Agreed! I predict that with the proliferation of Shidduch sites asking for big bucks, SYAS will become more popular, and have more members of all types among Yeshiva/Black Hat and Mod Yeshivish singles, making it easier to suit everyone’s needs in all areas.