Ben Levi

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  • in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675450
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    oomis Thats is one thing we can agree on

    in reply to: Giving Alcohol to Minors on Purim #1062914
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Jothar first off you forgot the Rambam from your list of “mainstream” Poskim as well as the fact the Aruch HaShulchan seems to understand that the Shulchan Aruch learns Lmase that one must get drunk ( Aruch HaShulchan Siman Tuf Reish TZadik Hey Siman Hey.

    Regarding Chayei Adom, until the Mishna Berura came out chayei adom was cosidered the “Da’as Achron” the reason the Mishna Berura took its place is because it was more comprehensive as well as the indisputed status of the Chofetz Chaim as the Gadol HaDor.

    As to what my Rabbeim held, Exactly what they did , One is required to get Drunk to the point of complete inebriation.

    As an interesting aside it is noteworthy that the name of one of the senior Roshei Yeshivos in America is missing from the Kol Korei against drinkig beer, upon ivestigating the matter I was told that he held because in many Yeshivos including when he was a Bochur by Rav Aaron Bochrim drank whisky it was established as a Minhag Yeshivos “Kol Midi D’mishaker” ( in theory I would think the origins is of this would be because of the simple fact that in Europe they did not have wine, just speculating)consequently He did not feel Himself to be of a stature to sign against a minhag.

    I questioned a close Chaver of this Rosh Yeshiva (and Odam Gadol in his own right) as to whether it was true and he told me I did not see it as I don;t read the papers and did not ask him but I could’ve told you he would not sign such a staatement The Frediker Gedolim saw many of us drinking whisky on Purim to be mekayim the Mitzva and never said anything he will not open his mouth where hi Rabbeim did’nt.

    Again to say that Gedolai Oilam did not hold of getting Drunk is ridiculas to say that other Gedolei Olam did not hold of it is ridiculas as well.

    Each person must follow his Mesorah, his rabbeim and again I would highly recommend Rabbi Yossi Rosenbergs article in this weeks Yated to all those who think drinking was never a part of Purim and the act initself is a Chilul Hashem.

    in reply to: Giving Alcohol to Minors on Purim #1062911
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    To say categorically the Chayei Odam is not the Yeshiva Olams posek is simply a lack of Knowledge. Much of the litvishe Olams Mesorah is based on the Chayei Odam/Chochmas Odam (one and the same, ask anyone whoi has learnt Hilchos Niddah.

    Besides For the Seder Hayom that I have qouted before I would add the Ben YeHoYado (ben Ish Cjai) as one who learns the Gemora K’pshuto. Look it up ( Ben Yehoyada is perhaps the primary mefaresh of Aggadita)

    in reply to: Giving Alcohol to Minors on Purim #1062903
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    I unfortunatley do not have the patience to write a detailed rebuttal of the “list” of “mainstream” Poskim quoted earlier. however I would suggest that one looks up the actual Sfas Emes instead of relying on the Piskei Teshuvos’s quote of it (as recomended in numerous haskomos on the Piskei Teshuvos, secondly I would point out that the interpetation of the Maharsha to the Gemora in bava Metzia clearly implies a chiyuv shikrus to the extent we need a gemora that is matir a tzurva m’rabanun to claim he was mekayim this shiur even though he did not. Thirdly I would reiterate what I have already mentioned before The shita of Rabeinu Ephraim is questioned by numerous achronim amoong them the Pri Chadosh and perhaps that is why it was never accepted.

    Lastly I would reiterate specifically because there most definiteley were Gedolim who held not to get shikur each person must follow his mesorah. I chose to folllow that of the Gedolim and Rabbanim I followed all of whom got drunk to the point of “ad di lo yudah”, One specifically happens to be makpid only to drink from a becher on Purim since he is being mekayim a mitzva.

    in reply to: Giving Alcohol to Minors on Purim #1062892
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    With all due repect R’ Yakov Horowitz is not a Rav or Rosh Yeshiva and there many chinuch approaches he advocates that are quite cotraversial.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675171
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    BombManiac since it seems you acknowledge the seriosness of the need to have filtered internet while at the same time your parnossa seems to require you to have unfiltered internet access, I would urge you to consult with a competen Rav who is knowledgeable in such matters he may tell you that even though you must have standard internet you still should have something such as Web Chaver.

    I hesitated to post this but seeing that from the tone of your posts you seem to acknowledge the dangers of the Internet and truly have it only for parnossa purposes I decided that indeed I should post it.

    in reply to: Giving Alcohol to Minors on Purim #1062884
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    When I was in Ninth Grade before Purim My Rebbi ( an established Posek) got up and gave a shiur on Drinking. Basically he was very firm it stating whether or not someone drinks at the age of thirteen is between him and his parets and all his talmidim should discuss the issue with thier Parents.

    He then went on to explain how even if one Drinks there is a “safe” way of drinking and a non-safe way and he gave a detailed guide as to what practices must be avoided at all costs (mixing, drinking on an empty stomach etc..) It is one shiur I have never forgotten and I still tell over many parts of it to others.

    (Rabbi Yossi Rosenberg happens to have an excellent article about drinking in this weeks Yated)

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675154
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Just-a-Guy, you raise a Halachid Shaila which must be asked of appropriate Rabbonim. However, I personally feel that the internet is certainly worse than passing women who are washing clothing in the river. In said case, the Rashbam says that if someone has a different path and still chooses to pass them by, then he is called a Rasho even if he closes his eyes.

    Similarly, if one does not need the Internet for business, meaning it is not a necessity, then the simple act of having it would be wrong. Of course if one must have it for business purposes then they should have the strongest possible filters in place, and then would be considered in the category of those that are “Leka Darko Achrina.”

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675147
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Kudos to you Volvie!

    Again it seems to boggle the mind that poeople are more worried over drinking on Purim then unrestrained access to the worst that is out there 24 hours a day availible to one and all.

    Pretty amazing.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675141
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    The Mesorah of many Jews for thousands of years has been to get drunk on purim.

    Another Mesorah has been not be in a situation which may lead to Arayos some of the sources and reasons have been stated above in my previous Post.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675138
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Aries,

    There is a biblical prohibition called Yichud which basically means it is prohibited for one man and one woman to be secluded together.

    The severity of this prohibition is such that there is considerable debate amonst Poskim as to whether it is Y’hurag V’al Yavor. (See Tzitz Eliezer, kuntrus on hilchos yichud)

    Now basically all agree that Yichud is not an issur atzmi meaning it is not an issur because it inteslf is prohibited rather because it is prohibited because it may lead to actual Gilui Ervah (See Sefer Dvar Halach Perek Aleph.

    The question then is why is Arayos different then all other issurim which do not have Biblical prohibition son that which may lead to it?

    The most simple ansewer given is because Gilui Ervah is different it is something which Nafshoi Shel Odum Michemed OSam (Gemora Makos) the very essence of a persons being desires it SEfer Chassidim an Rav Tzodok as weel as the Ohr Hachaim take this to mean that when someone is faced with the oppurtunity to sin in this manner it is virtually impossible to overcome accordingly it was this issur and this alone which the Torah made a prohibition stating one is not allowed to even be in such a situation that may cause him to have the temptation to sin.

    The Gemora in Sukka (HaChulil) says further Rabbah (if I remember correctly) saw a situation where one simple person actually overcame such a temptation. He began to cry stating if it would have been him he would not have been able to. A zaken ( perhaps Eliyahu HaNuvi) came and told him Don’t worry the reason you would have sinned is because Kol Hagodol M’Chavero Yitzro Gadol Himenu he who is greater then his friend has a greater yetzer hora.

    The Gemora at the end of Kiddushin states the Rebi Akiva ( a Tanna compared to Moshe Rabbeinu!) would have sinned if not for a Bas Kol warning the Yetzer Hora “Hizharu B’rabi Akiva V’toraso”.

    In light of all that Chazal have taught us of the dangers of this particular Yetzer Hora in my view it is particularly foolish for someone to say that ” I can Have it and I will not Sin” are they Greater the Rabi Akiva?

    How can one say on the one hand it is prohibited to be alone with a strange woman for ten minutes because we are afraid he may sin. Even if he is the Gadol HaDor ( who usually has “learnt” a great deal but on the other hand is permitted to allow access to the worse temptations in his house in his very own living room.

    One who feels that is akin to what the Mesilas Yeshorim says is a blind man walking on the edge of a cliff. For despite the numerous warnings of Chazal he has no idea what the Yetzer Hora is.

    At the very least I would beg that person go ask Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky or Rav Aron Shechter or Rav Feivel Cohen or Rav Chaim Stein or any Gadol what is causing the single biggest churban in Klal Yisroel today unfettered access to the internet or Drinking on Purim? How much do you wish to bet on the ansewer?

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675130
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Mod80 great moshul but may I point out that in respect to nisyonos of arayos there is an issur yichud however in repect to tarfus there is no such issur.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675129
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Jphone’ when I wrote you are wrong I meant in regard to Rav Shmuels view on the Internet secondly yeshivos can teach children how to learnd and certain aspects of hashkofa but will never be able to teach them how to be “people” that must come from the home period.

    Tomim Tihye; you can not be more right about teaching my wife taught for several years and wishes she still could but ass our family grew k’h she could no longer afford to “volunteer” and had to start a buisness.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675124
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Well if you have unfiltered access to the internet then in effect you have bought something that’s unkosher.

    in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675422
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Aries, please see Otzer Midrashim Chelek Beis the first or second Medrash.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675117
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    It is my understanding that it is basically computer programs or whitelists if you want more details call YeshivaNet. (718-Yeshiva)

    in reply to: To Drink or Not to Drink? #674769
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Mod-80 thanks I read it over and seems I did miss something.

    in reply to: To Drink or Not to Drink? #674766
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Jphone; Am i missing something I thought you wrote some members of that group were not Jewish I would assume if thats the case it was not “simchas purim” they had in mind as for the Jews if they were going around with non-jews i don’t think they had Simchas Purim in mind either.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675112
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Jphone, you are wrong.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675108
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Jphone you don’t fin it slightly hypocritical to decide that you may ignore the psak of Rav Shmuel Kamentetsky on one thing but declare fealty to his wise understanding on antother?

    in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675414
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    I am chas v’sholom not saying those who do not drink on Purim because they have gone through the sugya and come out that we are not mchuyov to do so are making a chilul hashem quite the contrary.

    What I am saying is those who do not know the sugya or halachos involved and do not come from a health/Pikuach Nefesh point in saying that it is not advisable to drink.

    Rather speak out against the very act of drunkenness because the “goyim” think drinking is bad are mechallel sheim shomayim for in essence they are subjecting basic pshat in chazal to the morals of the goyim around them.

    May i point out Chazal obviously did not feel that the act of drunkenness in it’s own right was a bad thing.

    Instead of people foolishly bashing that which they do not understand how about trying to understand Chazal you might learn something.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675093
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Why has this turned into another discussion of drinking?

    Can’t people ansewer the question that this discussion was aimed at?

    in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675408
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Talmid Lo Chacham: to your last statement I will heartily agree.

    If one learns through the sugya and comes out they are not supposed to drink and they have no mesora otherwise then they must follow the way they learn.

    It is the statements from those who don’t even know what mesechta the sugya is found in that have no place in the discussion.

    in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675405
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Or you can hold with the Seder Hayom who writes one should bring himself to the point where he is rolling on the floor throwing up.

    By the way I believe we pasken that if someone does not fulfill a mitzva then he there is a chilul Hashem involved. Meaning in everything there is potential chilul or kiddush Hashem just the degrees vary.

    That is why there are shittos that if one does one of the gimmel chamuros b’ones he is only over chilul hashem but not the actual aveira, it is the tremendous chilul hashem that causes the chiyuv mesiras nefesh.

    Basically my point is volvie is write.

    I would add in my view it is an even greater Kiddush Hashem to drink nowadays and show that not all Jews views are dictated by outside influences.

    in reply to: To Drink or Not to Drink? #674759
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Oomis I fail to see what you want from the Yeshiva in question your right that yes a Yeshiva has achrayus and canceling a Purim Mesiba (a majot event)Ithe se would would impress upon people the sense of achrayus the Yeshiva has.

    Then again it seems that what you really want is for the Yeshiva to rewrite the Gemora something that any Yeshiva would be unwilling to do.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675087
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Jphone: Seder Hayom states that one is to become inebriated on Purim to the point that they are rolling on the floor throwing up.

    Oomis: I do not have a wireless chip and access that I do have is through YeshivaNet which I highly recommend for their excellent support.

    As to the point of choosing to do the right thing.

    The Rashbam in Bava Basra makes clear that if someone walks in a non-tznius place when there was an alternative is considered a rasha, even if he closes his eyes.

    I find it interesting that those who are so quick to site one Rosh Yeshiva’s position that one should not drink to excess on Purim are quite willing to ignore that same rosh Yeshiva’s repeated calls both privatley and publicly that one should not have unfiltered internet in their homes under any circumstances.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675086
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Jphone: Seder Hayom states that one is to become inebriated on Purim to the point that they are rolling on the floor throwing up.

    Oomis: I do not have a wireless chip and access that I do have is through YeshivaNet which I highly recommend for their excellent support.

    As to the point of choosing to do the right thing.

    The Rashbam in Bava Basra makes clear that if someone walks in a non-tznius place when there was an alternative is considered a rasha, even if he closes his eyes.

    I find it interesting that those who are so quick to site one Rosh Yeshiva’s position that one should not drink to excess on Purim are quite willing to ignore that same rosh Yeshiva’s repeated calls both privatley and publicly that one should not have unfiltered internet in their homes under any circumstances.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675073
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    hereorthere; there’s is quite a difference between seeing untznius people and being in a situation of Yichud. The Hakacha I qouted is in regard to Yichud not seeing untznius people.

    No less a personage then Rav Matusyahu Salamon (another Rabbi who gets drunk on Purim) has stated that being alone with unfiltered access to the internet is a question of Yichud.

    Not having unfiltered access to the internet may not shield someone from seen an untznius women but it may shield him from interacting with her in some way. (v’dai l’chakima brimizah)

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675072
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Oomis Why is it that you ignore the central question of this thread?

    Why is it that you seem to feel it necassary to scream from the rooftops over drinking on Purim but are silent regarding the clear unanimus threat of the internet that is growing by leaps and bounds and threating to undermine the very fabric of our society?

    We know your views on Drinking that why this question was posed.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675064
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Oomis think you will will agree that making a parnosa is a very good thing yet the Rambam followed by the Shulchan Aruch all the way down to the Aruch HaShulachan pasken if one’s job forces them to be in a situation of Yichud they are required to give their job and find another.

    I personally was present when one of the greatest Poskim in America whos seforim are basic texts for those studying for semicha (incidentally one who gets drunk on Purim) stated that the internet is destroying homes, families and children left and right and it is prohibited to have unfiltered access in ones home. As an aside he mentioned “And even if one needs it for their parnosa who says it’s mutar?

    It was some years ago so I can not say for sure if my memory serves me correct by I think he went on to say that he will not go into it because people will not loisten to him.

    I B”H was zoche to learn by Gedolim as well talmidim of Gedolim all of whom advocated “drunkeness” on Purim and all of whom prohibited unfiltered access to the Internet.

    When I was a bochur I needed a cell phone because I was dating I am quite proud to be able to say I got a personal Heter from my Rosh Yeshiva zt’l who when I have been told in his youger years used to give a shmuess on Purim holding a Bottle of wine.

    It is people like that who’s every action and decision was dictated by Halacha and soley by Halacha who must serve as the Leaders of the present generation.

    If it would only be so then I am quite firm in the belief unrestricted access to the internet would be as common in the holmes of Bnei Torah as TV and all would be drunk on Purim and Moshiach wopuld come sooner because of it.

    As the song from MBD goes “there will be singing dancig laughing” an apt description of a drunken yeshiva bochurs Purim.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675059
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Volvie-Well Put.

    in reply to: Unfiltered Access to the Internet allowed? #675055
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Josh I hate to break it to you but this is not a matter of belief facts are that there is such a mesorah ask any Rosh Yeshiva what they did in his Rebbis Yeshiva.

    As for the other point.

    Again ask any Rav what is causing a greater churban Drinking on Purim or the Internet.

    in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675401
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Jphone, I don’t know what stage of drunkenness you refer to however look at the Gemora first Perek of Brochos and the Rambam it should satisfy you.

    in reply to: To Drink or Not to Drink? #674749
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Jphone, I don’t know what stage of drunkenness that you refer to however I am unaware of anyplace that Rav Hirsh zt”l makes known his view of the chiyuv Ad Dilo Yudah. I am aware that the view that has been followed tradiotionaly in Yeshivos is the pashut pshat of the Gemora and Medrash (Otzer Midrashim) and advocated by the Rambam which is one is required to drink until the point of complete inebriation at which time one is potur from drinking further.

    The point of complete inebriation is define as not being able to discern the difference between Arur Human and Boruch Mordechai.

    Being that every single one of my Rabbeim including Gedolei Hador (one who passed away) stated as such and I personally saw many drink to that point on Purim. I personally will not be the one to break the Mesorah.

    in reply to: To Drink or Not to Drink? #674746
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Oomis where these Rabbonim form their opinions from I have no idea, None of them are quote on qoute mainstream Rabbonim for a reason. Basically it’s straight out Shulchan Aruch women may not be counted for a minyan (orach chaim siman nun daled if i remember correctly)

    Furthermore let me make it perfectly clear for one to take it upon themselves to rate a Yom Tov established by Chazal is naive, foolish and dangerous.

    Furthermore when you continue on your diatribe against drinking on Purim please take a moment to remember that the plain meaning of the Gemora is that one is required to get drunk on Purim.

    It is one thing to say that perhaps in light of certain risks in keeping with Pikuach Nefesh and other halachic principals we are required to examine alternitave shitos explaining this Gemora most of which start whith a Bais Ephraim.

    However it is quite another to say the very act of drunkenness on Purim isa a Chilul Hashem. When one does such a thing they show thier barometer of proper behavior is not that which has been laid down by Chazal rather it is that of the nations in whos midst we find ourselves.

    Thier can be no greater Chilul Hashem then subjecting the teachings of Chazal to the morals of the goyim.

    In closing I would urge you to take heed of the words of Rav Shamshon Raphael Hirsh zt’l who began his famous nineteen letters by stating firmly and clearly that when one studies the Torah one must study it as a Jew not in a dispassionate way.

    So to when we study Chazal we must study it as Jews with amesorah on each and everything we do including how we celebrate Purim.

    in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675387
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    It seems to me that this disscussion has moved from the realm of Halacha andMesorah in other words understanding the expicitGemorah which says one must get “plastered” on Purim to the era of feelings based upon the culture around us.

    Being that I have always been taught that strictly orthodox Jews are prohibited from allowing feeling to dictate thier analysis of Halacha there is no way I can really find a place for these feelings within normative Halachic Judaism.

    in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675384
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Thank You Mod I could not have explained it better myself.

    In addition I would like to be notified where those shitos that hold going to sleep not through drinking are located as well as the source.

    in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675377
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    By the way if youre yotze through a nap the sleeping must be brought about through drinking. In other words the wine must cause someone to fall asleep if not the sleeping is worthless.

    in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675371
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Oomis with all due respect there is no one debating that it is ossur to get behind the weel of a car drunk.

    You neglect to explain though how it is mutar for a boy to drink kiddush wine but ossur to drink on Purim whioch is also a chiyuv according to pashut pshat gemorah, mesorah, as well as minhag.

    However to discourage the growing trend of drinking I would highly support a vigouros campaighn no less forceful then the one against drinking on Purim with the goal of eradicating the growing number of shul “Kiddush Cloubs” wich truly have no basis in Halacha my hunch is such a campaign would do much more to arrest the disturbing tren of drinking then the current campaign against Halacha.

    Incidentally, Why is iit that the campaign against Purim Drinking is conducted with so much vigour yet we barely hear a peep about Kiddush Clubs,

    Guesses Anyone?

    in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675369
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Jphone, my point was that if one holds it is assur for someone under 21 to consume alchohol then any amount is assur period even if its concord kal and even if it’s 1.5 ounces.

    As for being yotze with some one else what if the person is married and under 21 or even unmarried and a bochur in yeshiva or any other common case?

    in reply to: To Drink or Not to Drink? #674743
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    I just wanted to mention to OOmis that excluding Chanuka all Yomim Tovim ar a zecher for something that happened outside of Eretz Yisroel i.e Pesach is a zecher for Yetzias Mitzrayim which happened in Eygpy a place we are forbidden to return to period!

    in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675367
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Again for all those who hold underage drinking is “assur” I would pose the question what do you do if you hold what cannot make HaGafen on grpae juice from concentrate (a very common view) are you then not aloud to make kiddush on wine come shabbos until you are 21 years old?

    in reply to: Drinking On Purim #675366
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Sorry Jothar but it is quite famous that Rav Yisroel Salanter and his talmidim would be stone drunk the entire Purim and sober up as soon as night fell.

    Additionally I was told by “alte mirrers” that on Purim all the bochrim drank.

    While it is true Rav Aaron Kotler zt’l did not drink on Purim neither did he drink the entire year for kiddush he drank the bare minimum to be yotze and Rav Shneur zt’l used to become quite shikur on Purim as Rav Malkiel Kotler shlita does as well.

    Interestingly I was told by a talmid of Rav Aron zt’l that Rav Shneur was extremely shy and would not say any Torah of his own the whole year but when Purim time came and he was shikur he would all of a sudden become a “mayin hamisgaber”

    in reply to: To Drink or Not to Drink? #674739
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Also regarding the Feminist Jewish Movement please if you don’t know what your talking about keep away from them you’ll only mess yourself up.

    The Feminist Gripe is specifically the fact that there are different mitzvos given to men then women which is in their view a put down on women the mitzvos you mentioned specifically they view as especially demeaning mikvah? challah a zecher to Chava’s Chet what about Adam?

    Again there are ansewers to all of these and they require a serious understanding of Jewish Hashkofa based on Learning not feelings.

    in reply to: To Drink or Not to Drink? #674738
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Oomis would you bother to explain the “Halachically Accepeted” ways of women forming a minyan? And how this jives with a two thousand year old mesorah of women not davening with a minyan?

    Oh and while it is absurd to get into a debate about the chashivus with Purim I would note regarding your point of Hashems name not being mentioned in it that the Gra states the whenever “melech” is mentioned in the Megilla it refers to Hakodosh Boiruch Hu.

    As to the fact that “Jewish Drunken Bums” are a chillul Hashem I must say on this poin we indeed Disagree I feel that the words of Chazal are more relevent then the opinions of NPR and therefore since Chazal obviously felt “Jewish Drunken Bums” are not a Chilul Hashem then that issue is settled.

    Secondly again we shall have to agree to Disagree on another point Chazal state numerous times one cannot use their feelings in decideing levels of schar for a particular mitrzva you obviously disagree, again I side with Chazal.

    In closing I would remind you that the Arizal did put Purim on the level of Yom KIppur (YOM KI-PURIM)regarding certain aspects of the day.

    in reply to: To Drink or Not to Drink? #674733
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    First off the ansewer you gave that Reform Lady does not really address the point and what would you ansewer the Modern Orthodox Feminists who do all the mitzvos you mentioned. It seems to me that you yourself do not really understand why a woman should not be counted in a Minyan. And if so I would highly recommend you find out the ansewer it’s not this forums place to discuss it however I assure you it’s quite relevent.

    Also your feelings about what Hashem is more concerned about are really irrelevent, In fact Chazal warn us on numerous occasions not to try and decide which Mitzvos get more schar then others. In fact the reason why many say not to recite the aseres adibros each day is precisley because minim were stating the Aseres HadiBros are chalila “more” Torah then other mitzvos.

    As for the crack about the fact that it did not happen in Eretz Yisroel that is patently Ludicrous first off a mitzva is a mitzva, second Purim is quite possibly a part of the mitzva of Mchiyas Amalek.

    Thirdly this whole thing of making a chilul Hashem in the eyes of the goyim is quite perplexing Are we subjecting our understanding of the Torah to what is a Goy’s version of proper behavior?

    As for what you state about making a chilul hashem in the eyes of the Goyim it is quitye possible a chilul Hashem in fromt of Yidden is worse.

    And I would like to know which element of the forbidden is in the mitzva of drinking?

    in reply to: To Drink or Not to Drink? #674728
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    I find this whole buisness of Dina D’Malchusa quite interesting.

    First off if their is a mitzva to drink on Purim it would apply to all those who are male and over the age of thirteen, period. In a case where the law of the land say expressly that oone may not fulfill a chiyuv it is questionable to say the least if one is obligated to fulfill Dina D”Malchusa.

    As for the question of “are you so makpid regarding other chiyuvim” while the point is absurd in it’s own right I would just wish to ask. Are you makpid never to Jaywalk?

    in reply to: To Drink or Not to Drink? #674726
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Aries i just wondered what you mean by drinking a shiur to fulfill the mitzva but not drinking to get drunk?

    Lets see, either you hold like those that say you can sleep, however they hold that you must fall asleep from the drinking. I always wondered if there is anyone who actually does this.

    Or you can hold that the mitzva is to get drunk.

    Or you can hold the mitzva is to drink and getting drunk is a “P’Tur” but till you are drunk you are mchuyov to keep drinking.

    Your statement jives with none of these.

    Also, I just wanted to add that while I am sure there are many emergencies. However, when I was a bochur a friend of mine was brought into Maimonodies on Purim Night, he was kept there the whole night. For the entire time he was there the bochur who accompanied him stated that only one other person was brought in. Incidentally, the other Bochur who was brought in admitted he gets drunk basically every Friday Night.

    My friend was there the entire night and discharged early in the morning. The Frum Doctor tried to tell him what a chillul Hashem it was that he was brought in. Whereby My friends comapanion asked why was he brought in in the first place, he did not need pumping and Hatzola kept him in the ambulance for an hour before he was brought in.

    The excuse? If we are called down we must bring him in whether he needs it or not.

    Point: Maimonidies Hospital Purim Night had a Total of Two people brought in, one of whom did not need it. I find that illuminating.

    in reply to: To Drink or Not to Drink? #674722
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    For some reason I think its time for people to step back and look at drinking from a different perspective.

    Chazal teach us that one can see the essence of a person from three things one of those is drinking. The reason is because after one drinks to the point where he has no control over himself then his essence comes out. You get to see who he really is.

    In fact the simple way of understandin the Chiyuv on Purim is through this Mamar Chazal.

    Normally one acts in a refined manner simply because he knows the difference between good and bad.

    On Purim we are told to bring ourselves to a point beyond that where we do not have a conscious realization of the difference between “Mordechai” good and “Haman” bad. But still we are must act as Mordechai in other words on Purim we bring out the essence of a person.

    Have we ever stopped to realize what it is that is occuring around us on Purim.

    Yes Boys and Men are Drunk, Totally Drunk.

    But what are the vast majority of them doing?

    Hugging and Kissing each other collecting money for tzeddaka. Crying over the past year and making up with those they did not get along with. Yes they are wild, very wild. But I have yet to see fighting between men on Purim rather it is utter Joy one sees.

    In my opinion the greatest Kidddush Hashem of the entire year is on Purim it is the one time we get to see the true difference between a Yid and Goy we get to see yidden with no control over themselves with no real knowledge of their actions showing their inherent Beauty.

    And if it comes to pass that this changes then it is the Parents and Rabbeim those raising a new generation that must stop and ask themselves why this is.

    Why is that we are raising a new generation that is inherently unhappy that when drunk does not act like the Bochrim of five years ago rather acts like a goy?

    That is a question that I am afraid those that campaighn against drinkning will not ask for it would raise questions that require ansewers many are unwilling to give.

    In conclusion I would like to relate an episode I witnessed as a Bochur.

    It was Purim Day and we were all drinking at my Maggid Shiurs house. An elderly Russian Man was passing by and someone invited him in.

    He was an obvious irreligious Jew.

    He stayed the whole day.

    At night he told some he was a Doctor who was about to retire. He had never done mitzvos since he grew up in Communist Russia.

    He went on to say that he had never seen anything so moving in his entire life.

    In Russia when people would get drunk they would kill each other over here for the first time in his life he saw a buch of Drunk men with their teacher dead drunk and singing and dancing with each other.

    He then asked if someone could get him in touch with a person to teach him about Torah.

    Seeing a bunch of Drunk and wild Yeshiva Bochrim on Purim brought a Feir Yid to Torah,

    Are we capable of seeing what this Frei Yid saw.

    in reply to: Decorating Your House For Purim #674281
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Not sure if its a real yekkish minhag or just something my family does, but we decorate cookies like Haman and his ten sons and hang them from the chandelier.

    Mrs. Ben Levi

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