Forum Replies Created
Just tell them “If you patronize me I will not patronize your store”. Get it? two definitions of patronize…
I crack myself up….
Reb Eliezer-The SA gets that language from the gemara in breachos. It means that whatever power and effectiveness your tefila had during the proper zman of tefila is gone, done, finito. You BLEW IT! That is not a heter to say if you want you can daven whenever you want. I aint no talmid chacham but I don’t think that the message of the gemara is that you can itentionally wake up every day past the proper zman and disregard all the halachic discussion about the proper zman tefila. It does not mean you get bonus points for davening before 10:30 AM.
What would you say about someone who does not wear tzitzis ? Its OK bec. they don’t need to wear a four cornered garment? Wearing a yarmalka has even less significance. It seems odd to be makpid on many non-halchachic issues but to totally ignore a whole section of shulchan aruch.
It is one thing if people say “What can I do, I have a hard time waking up in the morning” vs. we hold beshita that we will make a minyan past the time that halcha dictates. . How is that any different than the shita of the Reform and Conservative movements?
common saychel-It is not honest to claim to quote the “AVI CHAI ten year census of Jewish School, 2020”
There is no such thing
If you have a copy of it please post.
Sorry for the fact check but try to be honest in your postings.
MO as philosophy/movement is certainly alive and well but has not enjoyed the same increase as the yeshivishe and Chasidishe communities. For those looking for hard numbers all you need to look at is the numbers from the day school census from 1998-2013. The MO students pretty much stayed flat but the chareidi numbers increased by an incredible amount. over 2/3 of day school students are in Chareidi schools (Satmar alone has 10%)
Limud hatorah has certainly increased in the MO community which can be demonstrated by the numbers of daf yomi attendees and the numbers of shiurim given in the same shuls compared to 30-40 years ago.
I think one of the biggest question on the MO community is the numbers of yeshiva and kolleit in post high school yeshivot. Think about how many more yeshivas there in the yeshiva world compared to 30-40 years ago. BMG alone went from 2,000-over 6,000 from 1996-2017. MO has YU and it is debatable if Chovivei Torah is included. Why have the numbers of their yeshivaliet stayed the same? Even many of the YU Roshei Yeshiva send their sons to Chareidi Yeshiva gedolahs.
Dikduk bemizvtos has made great strides in the MO community but it still has some pockets where it stayed behind (as have pockets in the Chereidi community).
I think we should also appreciate that MO did kept yiddishkeit alive during a time when people thought you were crazy for staying frum. Perhaps now that the non-Orthodox movements are on the decline it is possible that the MO philosophy is not as necessary and all Orthodox Jews are blending together much more with less polarization.
5ish- Zman tefila is a halcha. A person gets schar for keeping the halacha. He misses out on that schar if he violates the halacha.
Your second argument also does not make sense. Most people, I assume chasidim included, do not need to wake up at 11:00 in order to have proper kavanah for tefila. It would be nice to believe that all chasidim davening after the proper zman in the morning wake up the same time as everyone else and just got so caught up in their preparations for davening that next thing you know “hey it’s 11:30! Whooops!”. I think it is a real stretch to assume that this is what really happens.
Instead of people knocking Lakewood for negligence they may want to look at it as a test case. If thousands of people have been living life as if before COVID-19 for 2-3 months and there is no significant uptick in cases, perhaps the concept of herd immunity has something to it. Maybe the lesson os that high-risk people should continue to take precautions but the rest do not need to. I an’t no doctor but at what point would someone analyzing the case study of Lakewood say “they are goning to all get again very soon” vs. “if they did not get it until now….”
There is also a big difference between salaries and expenses in a school vs. a chesed institution. Most schools have a board who do oversee the budget. Parents are customers and are constantly demanding a good product.
Chesed institutions can pay their administrators what they want with little oversight from the public. If they have a good marketing system and fundraising machine they could put little into programs and a lot into salaries. It is much harder to do that in a school. The big question for chesed institutions is on the donors who pump tons of money into projects which hang heavily on tugging at heartstrings
Syag- Good points. I would also add that we are talking about the institution where you are entrusting YOUR children to grow and develop. If you feel that a yeshiva is so corrupt from the inside out you are making a really big mistake in sending your child to that school. If you live in an area with only one school that provides such horrible chinuch I would seriously consider moving. If someone feels the menhal is a ganav, why would think he is properly leading his teachers to teach right from wrong?
I think the markets prove the point. People don’t sell houses for $750,000-$1,000,000 unless there are likely buyers. Pesach programs don’t open up unless they have likely customers. Jewish clothing stores do not charge 3-4 times the price as the rest of the market unless they have regular customers, women would not take on jobs as party planners unless there was a demand for it, leasing companies serving the frum community would not be offering as many cars as they do unless they had customers. New seminaries would not be opening every year unless there was a demand for them, fast food joints etc…..
You can stick your head in the sand but these businesses seemed to have been flourishing and increasing before corona hit.
Maybe all the poor shnooks who are careful with money and spend within their means are the only ones who hang out in the YWN coffee room. My personal observations of the levels of materialism in the yeshiva world say otherwise. Count the number of pesach hotel programs during a normal year, the number of frum families flying to Florida in January, to EY for sukkos, new construction in Lakewood, Monsey, 5 towns, the price of houses in these areas and Brooklyn, percentage of BY high graduates attending seminary in EY, excessive spending on frivolities in simchos etc. etc.
Some of these are due to social pressures, desires for luxuries but I think most people would agree that the level of gashmius in America has increased manifold to a point that it is not sustainable. To ask the struggling yeshivos to suffer for that is not right.
I think the OP is making a very good point that our level of what is considered “normal expenditures” has gone up tremendously from only 20-30 years ago. When looking to cut expenses many many people look at their high tuition bills and want the cuts to come from there before looking at those expectations that have increased in the last few decades. Those paying tuitions in the 26-50 age range ask yourselves if your parent’s generation would
lease cars (or drive only new model cars)
take vacations to Florida/EY 1-2 times per year
eat out 1-2 days per week
buy food without looking at the price
take bar mitzvah boys to EY
provide regular support to married children
rent summer bungalows at a price comparable to what people pay today
higher cleaning help as frequently as today
shop in clothing stores with prices comparable to today
spend on simchas what people do today
pay for housing comparable to today
pay people others for basic maintenance, landscaping etc.
send girls to seminaries in EY for $25k+
pay comparable prices for sleepaway camps
perform mitzvos requiring expensive chumros
Granted there has been some inflation in the last 30 years just about all of these things are CHOICES and hence luxuries. Some are lifestyles that are easier to change than others based on social pressures. But if our parents did not live these lifestyles why do we feel more entitled than them? So when it comes to cutting down things on this list (and I am sure others can or complain about what goes on the list) why should tuition and yeshivos be the ones to suffer?
Commonsaychel-the discussion about not for profits most likely had no relation to your kid’s yeshiva.
Unommin-It is absolutely not true that there is a higher supply of quality Rabbeim than the demand. Quite the opposite. Ask any principal.July 21, 2020 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm in reply to: Why does the government give benefits to kollel yungerleit? #1885295
Of course, it is controversial but I think you realized that. From the perspective of the democrats in the government it seems that they don’t really care about whether a person is trying to get out of poverty. They want those votes and therefore want to be seen as the ones who give out free money, take from the rich and give to the poor etc. The poor are victims and the rich are bad. The Republicans generally try to wean the poor away from poverty. Recently they did make a rule about able body people not being eligible for food stamps. It really all comes down to politics.
If you consider what goes on in academia you would realize that a few thousand graduate students taking money to study advanced Talmud is actually quite admirable. When you look at it from that perspective there is no moral flaw from the perspective of the kollel guys.
If every frum person would be scrupulously honest when it comes to these programs it would actually be a kidush Hashem. Unfortunately That may not always be the case.
Did anybody consider that perhaps we have all misread the OP and his issue really revolves around nisyonos or internet shmutz and has nothing to do with growth in learning?
Syag-I will leave it to the audience to comment if they believe most bachurim today are like your children which I highly commend (and you for raising them like that) or like those I have described.
Can we look at this from a positive perspective? This might be the best thing for these 1,000 or so bachurim whose plans were suddenly upended. My guess is that most of them (like most humans) had a certain life plan about how everything will fall into place; I will go to x yeshiva in Eretz yisroel for 2 years, get married to y type girl after dating for 2 months, my laws will support me with $_____ per month, I will stay in kollel for z years and then go into the shver’s business, I will have ____ kids and settled down in Lakewood in ____ neighborhood etc. Suddenly they get a lesson in life that life does not work that way. This is an incredible opportunity for every single one of these bachurim to turn off the autopilot and ask themselves questions like
“What are my goals for my yeshiva life and how will I accomplish them?”
“How much of my growth in Yeshiva comes from those outside of me (Rabbeim, cahveirim) and how much must come from within?”
“Is it possible that I have taken for granted my life as a yeshiva bachur with little/no responsibilities? If so what can I do to change that?”
“How will I adjust to life after yeshiva/kollel?”
“Am I really in yeshiva to “learn how to learn” and if so how will I know if I have achieved that? Maybe I should focus on just learning?”
“What do I hope to gain from my Rabbeim? Do I really need them to tell me which ketzos to look up? If I do not have that does that really mean I am lost?”
“If I ca not learn without another few hundred people in the same room as me what will happen after yeshiva?”
“Am I getting closer to Hashem in yeshiva? How? What is different now?”
“Do I have a plan for parnassa when I get married? Is there something I can do now to explore or experiment with that? Take college courses, itern in a certain business etc.”
What am I doing to take achrayus for klal Yisrael? Is there something I can do now to explore if perhaps I can have a future career in serving klal Yisrael full time instead of as a hobby or to lay guilt?”
Syag- I think your boys are a very rare exception. Everyone else can chime in but I don’t think most bachurim are self-supportive and cook their own meals at age 22. Does anyone disagree? BTW, going out to the pizza shop or burger joint with your parent’s credit card is not called preparing your own meals.
If a young man of 22 falls apart when his daily structure is taken and he can not adjust and deal with a new reality, what will happen 4-6 years down the road when his ideal situation is removed when he foes out to work? Is this not a miniature preparation for dealing with the realities of life in that he will not always live the life of the “ochlei man”? Could it be that our young men today simply take for granted the incredible ease at which they have it today which is completely unprecedented in history? I am not saying it is a good thing that boys have lost their structure. Let us use this opportunity for them to appreciate what they have had until now and even what they have without their normal structure. All their needs are taken care of. Someone cooks three meals a day for them and they have zero responsibility. Unlimited access to seforim the likes of which we have never seen before. Yes there are tremendous nisyonos out there but calling a tragedy as a boys who may be forced to continue in the same yeshiva that he just spent the last 4-7 years seems like a strectch.July 1, 2020 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm in reply to: Frum non profit organizations disclosing financials. #1878584
Syag-The point of disclosure is to bring these points into the open and let the answers come out. If the head of the organization can easily explain why he deserves a salary of $457,681 let him explain. He may say “If you don’t like it, find someone else who can do a better job”. Principal salaries are determined by supply and demand. It is a beautiful thing when people running tzedaka organizations simply take a moderate salary but not required.
We can also look at from the other angle. Instead of people getting angry at the guy making $457,681maybe they will gain a greater appreciation of the guy who takes a $96,000 salary and has 96.5% of the money he takes in going directly to the program. Perhaps in will help people make different decssions as to how they allocate tzedakah when they see where their tzedaka money goes.
Another unfortunate factor in all this is the power of glitz and heartstrings. The reality today is that campaigns have a better shot at bringing in more money based on their marketing campaign and/or if they can present a more emotional unique story. The ideal (although I admit there is no absolute measure for this) is that more money would be allocated to what accomplishes a greater good. True this “greater good” is very very subjective but if you could make the case to people in a forthright honest approach I think many would allocate thier tzedakah differently.July 1, 2020 12:27 pm at 12:27 pm in reply to: Frum non profit organizations disclosing financials. #1878459
BTW- I just checked the 990s of one very popular tzedaka in the US. They do a lot of good but realize that the salaries of the top 7 employees totals $1,720,000 not including benefits. This organization reports $22 million in revenue. Another organization pays $248,000 total for its top executives with $42 million in revenues. That is a very significant difference. That was just one quick look at two organizations. If the mods allow I could let you know the names of both organizations and a lot more.July 1, 2020 11:50 am at 11:50 am in reply to: Frum non profit organizations disclosing financials. #1878462
Joseph -Are you referring to this exemption “A school below college level affiliated with a church or operated by a religious order”
Which religious order or synagogues are the yeshivas affiliated with?July 1, 2020 11:23 am at 11:23 am in reply to: Frum non profit organizations disclosing financials. #1878435
I personally disagree with those posters who say it is nobody’s business how much these executives make. I agree if the CEO is a hard worker and has a unique talent that no one else can do he should get a higher salary than the underlings. But the donors should also realize how much of their donation is going to that. I think many people would be shocked to find out the salaries of some of these execs. I am talking about $300K, $400K and above. When we ask our children to go out and raise money for these institutions realize how much of it is going for very very high salaries. There are others that rely much more on volunteers and minimize overhead as much as possible.
Recently there were a number of schools in one city that all decided they would be strict with tuition payments during COVID-19. Some parents fought back and disclosed the salaries of the principals which are over a quarter of a million$ each year.
Realize that many yeshivas file as a synagogue and therefore do not file 990s. Curious as to the ehrlichkite of that
Gadol hadorah: Do you realize how ridiculous that argument is? If the chasisdim shvitz like the rebbe (I did not make up the term) with fur hats in the summer why should the rest of us be uncomfortable too?
Perhaps the Chasidim should question :yeah why are we wearing fur hats in the summer. Isn’t there a better way?
Unfortunately, the answer to these questions is similar to so many other issues like weddings, seminary in Israel, wearing less expensive fedoras etc. It needs a whole movement of people to say hey this is dumb why don’t we change it? Such a thing is very unlikely to happen in our society which by nature includes huge amounts of social pressure.
All we can do is gripe about stuff like this in the YW coffee room
Gadolhadorah: In the Alte Heim the average frum Jew did not wear a black fedora. THAT is a moderneshe minhag. What point can be proven from what rabbonim did then?
It is rare today to see anyone under 60 today wearing a straw hat. Years ago wearing a hat was a dignified part of getting dressed and going out. Hence, it was more comfortable to wear a lighter weight hat in summer months. That meant even Gentiles wore hats. Today the only people who wear fedoras are those people trying to make a statement that they are part of the yeshiva world. If the yeshiva world does not wear straw hats it would be pointless to wear one.
Let’s keep in mind that for centuries the majority of Jews were not very learned. Poverty in Eastern Euroupe was very very rampant. That meant kids needed to start working at a young age to help support the family. In addition the tools we have today were just not there. Seforim were very hard to come by. One shas in the whole town? The entire population of the yeshiva world combined at the HEIGHT of the yeshiva movement in Lithuania was about 3,000. That is not even half of the just the Mir today.
That said Torah is given to Jews as a gift based on the amount of yegia and effort a person sacrifices for it. It could be that despite all of these difficulties there were a decent amount of people who could learn gemara on a low level and even fewer who we would classify as gedolim.
I don’t understand the question. It is not relevant how people learned daf yomi in 1923. Just like they had different abilities and skills 97 years ago there were also a lot less people learning it then. The primary beauty of daf yomi is the structure. It obligates a person to stick to a schedule and keeps him on track. A secondary advantage is the idea of connecting with Jews all over the world. The level of depth a person applies to it will depend on a person’s abilities, time constraints, tools available etc. If a person is learning in kollel and can put in 4-8 hours a day into doing the daf -great. If he is a beginner learning it for an hour a day that also has a huge benefit. Every person needs to choose a learning program that best suits him.
I think if you compare the learning of those who learn the daf and the detractors you will see a big difference. Most of the detractors do not come any where near the daf adherents. They use it as an excuse. Would it be best if everyone would break their teeth trying to figure out every word of Gem. Rashi & Tos? Yes but the reality is that the only ones that can do that are big talmidei chachamim or people learning in yeshiva all day. Unfortunately, there are are many bachurim and kollel yungerlite who do not reach the same level of yegia and yedios of many balei batim daf yomi learners.
I never met Ra, Meir Shapiro but my guess is that if you would ask him this question he would say “just learn as much as you can!”
The questions of is seminary beneficial or not seems to be all theoretical. Let’s say we all agree that the world would not lose anything if all seminaries closed up tomorrow. How does that that help our present situation when there is a tremendous societal where 90-97% of the girls go? What can be done to reverse the trend? Do you want to be the parent who tells your sweet daughter “I don’t care if all your friends are going. We decided it is not beneficial for you”. It is one thing if the girl herself does not want to go. But it is not a simple move to just tell your kid “sorry not for you” (unless of course you really really can’t afford it)April 28, 2020 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm in reply to: Now What?? post pesach covid thoughts. Entitled generation being challenged #1854710
Although I agree 100% with the OP I do not agree with all the doomsayers of what will be the result of this. It does not need to mean that kollel enrollments will drop and that everyone will get “a dose or reality”. Hopefully it will be a wake up call to the younger generation to live a lifestyle more like the kollel families of the 70’s and 80’s. Less materialistic, not relying on parents, no entitlement expectations and most importantly—a renew commitment for mesirus nefesh for Torah. I did not get parental support during my kollel years and I think I was better off because of it. I made a couple of bucks during bein hasedarim and at night and it made me appreciate every minute I was privileged to still be in yeshiva. Hopefully we will “get it” and our yungerlight will gain that appreciation too.
Remember when a yeshivishe car meant a beat up 15-20 year old station wagon? Today it means a 1-2 year old Camry or SUV. There was a certain pride of those who drove the “woody” station wagon that ran on bitachon. Let’s bring those days back and ditch the whole gimme liefstyle which entails living off someone else’s pain and sweat.April 28, 2020 12:40 am at 12:40 am in reply to: Now What?? post pesach covid thoughts. Entitled generation being challenged #1854139
Wise words from someone so young. Unfortunately, my guess is that the time spent writing this well thought out treatise will go to waste as it gets buried in the CR archives. I wish someone would give you the forum to speak to your generation. Unfortunately, when it comes from older bearded Rabbis they are seen as “kill-joy fuddy duds”. Your message to a generation of yeshivalight is powerful and speaks to the other 10% too.
Milhouse-I think your attitude is what underlying a generation or two of people missing the point. It is not good for our generation as a whole to follow a shallow lifestyle not based on ruchniyus. We are on this planet to get closer to Hashem. If you have $ and use it for things other than that goal you are missing out on the purpose of your existence. Just because an action has a loose relationship to Judaism does not mean that it is being in order to serve G-d and to get closer to Him or to bring your fellow Jew closer to Him.
Do people spend gobs of $ on simchos as a way to serve G-d? What is the effect it has on the rest of the community?
Do people go to hotels on pesach bec. they are better able to tap into the real meaning of the holiday there?
The OP is correct and those who miss the opportunity to learn from the magefa are the losers. A pandemic is a terrible thing to waste.
CTL-Please keep us updated if they take you up on your offer. We wish you and the new couple much mazel and brocha. Hopefully, they will have the marriage of their dreams if not the wedding of the dreams which should really last much longer.
Perhaps if all the appeals were for only those who are Rabbeim in schools this discussion would be more on target. Notice that unfortunately the tzedkah appeals are across the board of the entire community. Perhaps a better solution going forward would be an initiative to make available subsidized plans for the Jewish community. Those wealthier members of the community would probably not apply or we could ask them to donate toward the full cost. If you add up the funds raised from just a few of the appeals you will see that they add up to several million dollars. That could better be spent toward subsidizing such a program and would also encourage more people in our communities in taking the trouble to get a policy. My guess is that there are many out there who have not gotten insurance simply bec. they never took the time to sign up for it. It becomes one of those things that are “yeah I guess its important but I will do it one day”
There was a campaign that started about 15 years ago that addressed this exact issue. Someone was rightly frustrated by the $ donated by all these tragic campaigns that could have gone instead to paying life insurance policies. The amount raised in one campaign could have paid for thousands of polices (with much more dignity too).
Keep in mind that while all these deaths are tragic, not all campaigns are equal. If an 80-year-old woman passes away after all children have been married off, it may be sad but may not warrant a campaign to support her husband who never had a job.
Alos keep in mind that you can buy 30-year policies when a person is young that should last until a person is old enough that his expenses will be less. I bought a 30-year policy when I was in my thirties for $40 a month for a $500,000 policy.April 1, 2020 12:34 am at 12:34 am in reply to: How Corona Taught Klal Yisroel to Make Small Simchas #1845610
I hate to admit it by Joseph is actually making a very good point. The next question is what are the practical solutions that can be implemented to utilize these ideas after the crisis will IY”H pass? Most takana rules do not go very far. It is very difficult to get an entire tzibur to agree to make real changes.
Any popularity of the song by Hashem melech on world charts is referring to the the non-Jewish versions from which Gad Elbaz copied it (C’est la vie by Khaled in Algerian Arabic and French or Vivir Mi Vida by Marc Anthony in Spanish). There are quite a number of Jewish songs that became hits in the Jewish world that are really tunes from the goyish world including some listed above (Moshiach by MBD). I don’t think the Jewish artists will try to hide this but they just figured most of their audience will not know or don’t care.
Joseph is right. Apparently the Alter is not very alter and is likely a young whippersnapper.
A few participants are making the point that making pesach at home will involve the one time cost of buying new pots, pans etc. Unless someone was planning to go to a hotel as a single person I highly doubt that the total expenses would be more than the cost of a hotel. If its a large family it is nearly impossible (unless you cook in solid gold pots and plan to install a special new top of the line pesach kitchen in your home).
Even so, would it be such a bad thing if this would be the impetus to get a few more people to stay home for pesach? I think anyone over age 40 or so can attest that this mishgas of we NEED to go away for pesach is a relatively new phenomenon and perhaps it is time for everyone to rethink priorities? Just bec. it became the thing to do doesn’t mean we can start to use our brains and question if it is the wisest thing to do
Some brought up the point of elderly folks who have no where else to go. I understand that there are some elderly Jews who really do not have family that they can go to. But if more of the 30-60 year olds would stay home and make their own pesach maybe we could have more opportunities to bring back the way things should be and have Bubby and Zaidy at the seder. My gut tells me that no matter how learned Grandfather is, it is much more important to have him tell over sipur yitzias mitzrayim at a seder than to have a 24 hour tea room and chol hamoed with a concert, moonbounce and fire juggler.March 11, 2020 12:25 am at 12:25 am in reply to: Only 3 days left to vote in WZO, hold your nose & do it. #1839086
If R Aharon Feldman believes that R. Chaim got all the facts wrong why wouldn’t he just represent what he believes are the facts and see what R. Chaim really holds? It seems that R. Aharon Feldman is also basing his opinion on Joseph’s false sources that America only gets 150 out of 750 delegates. (the correct amount is actually 500 total delegates) . The orthodox have the capability of getting much more than 50 delegates. If they get out the vote today every vote will make a much bigger impact than in any election you will ever vote in (especially if you vote republican in a blue state)
I agree 100% with the poster that are advocating making aliya especially for those considering finally getting out of NY.
However for those unfortunate souls who have decided that it is not feasible to go home just yet, there are many reasons to consider moving “out of town” other than bag laws and taxes.
Housing prices is the biggest, but this has a snowball effect on many other major expenses.
Higher housing prices mean you need to pay teachers in yeshivas more to afford living there. This translates into higher tuitions.
Higher standard of living: How many houses in your “in town” neighborhoods have not been remodeled in the last 15 years? The gadgets, clothes your kids want etc.
The jewish stores in NY needs to keep up with a higher standard of living (and property rental) and hence charge higher prices. Did you ever compare the prices of clothing in Jewish stores vs. non-Jewish stores? Shoprite vs. Pomegranate?
The atmosphere “in town” is more tense and high pressured due to traffic, parking, income rat race etc. More judgemental. More stress (just to make a living).
Do a calculation in the minimum family income necessary to get by in NY vs. OOT and you will see that just like you can’t compare a dollar in 1920 to 2020 you also need to adjust a NY dollar vs. an OOT dollar. Higher salaries also require higher income tax, less eligibility to low-middle income programs etc.
The main thing holding back most people is the psychological barrier of thinking the world ends at the Verrazano bridge.
I also do not understand why YWN is not covering this. We do not need all of the lashon horah and back and forth dirt but if R’ Shmuel Kamenetzsky shlita got a green light from R. Chaim Kanievsky isn’t that newsworthy?
Certainly a lot more important than telling us some temani draft dodging kid got let out jail!
Maran Rav Chaim Kanievski shlita gave voting in it a thumbs up. Maran Rav Ovadiah Yosef Zt”l too. Sounds like it has the support of the major gedolim. Why should it be any different than voting for degel or shas? Can anyone explain what the downside is especially when so much is at stake? It seems like if the Orthodox would get their act together they could sweep this thing.
I do not want to discount the point point made by the OP. I am sure that it is true that there are many people who reject proposed shiduchim (or after a date) for ridiculous reasons. It is likely that very often these rejections could be from the parents with twisted hashkafos who are messing up their kids lives.
However, we don’t always know the whole story and very often assumptions are made that are just not true. It could be that the rejections come for valid reasons. For example, if a girl feels she needs a boy currently in Yeshiva and you are working (your title gives that one away) then that is a valid reason to reject a proposal based on HER requirements. You may be a much higher quality yarei shomayim and better catch than the guy in Yeshiva who misses minyanim and sleeps through half of seder, but that is not what she is looking for. It could be some girls feel they need a guy taller than her in order to respect him (BTW they say that R’ Ahron Kotler’s wife was a head taller than him. She did not need the physical height since everything else about him more than made up for it)
We also need to remember when it comes to shidduchim something that is true in all parts of life. Hashem runs the world and will determine when we find our proper zivug. We need to do our hishtadlus and daven but it is silly for us to say “the reason that I am not married is that I went to a co-ed high school and girls are rejecting me.” Your job is to do your best job as a Jew and when you get rejected thank the One above for keeping you away from a machshefa who could ruin your life. If you and your roommates are great guys, the world will recognize that. There are a ton of girls (and their parents) who are probably reading this and saying “how do I get these boys?!”February 16, 2020 12:47 am at 12:47 am in reply to: The constant protests in eretz yisroel need to be addressed. #1832004
Why are posters assuming that it is true that gedolim support protesting? How many gedolim support protesting vs. how many have spoken out against it? Please show me which gedoilm support these protesters. I would be very curious to see the list.
Reb Eliezer’s comparison to the Chasam Sofer makes absolutely no sense and proves nothing.February 16, 2020 12:47 am at 12:47 am in reply to: dirshu siyum was 80% chassidish, understanding why? #1832002
Joseph is guilty of using his own experience in thinking that what he sees in the world around him is all there is. It is a common mistake but not actually based on anything real. The only real census that I know of that can demonstrate the percentage of Chadish Jews of the Orthodox in America is the census by Dr. Marvin Schick of all day school students in America. If you do the math, the chadish are actually 37.7% of the Orthodox. This study was done in 2013. Even given the current population growth in all segments (the yeshivishe and chabad is also quite high) it will not come close to the 60% assumed by Joseph. My guess is that Joseph is not counting Chabad in his category of Chasidish. You read the entire study here
While it is true that there is large population growth in areas such Kiryas Yoel, Williamsburg and Boro Park, my guess is that Joseph has not been to areas outside the Orthodox enclaves he is familiar with. Try visiting
the five towns, Teaneck, Baltimore, Los Angeles, Chicago, South Florida, Cleveland, Far Rockaway, Queens, Atlanta, Detroit, Crown Heights, Silver Spring, etc.
In case you are wondering, yes, Dr. Schick’s study does include ALL the chasidishe yeshivos. He is extremely thorough.
I think most (although apparently not all) will agree that some form of break is necessary. Obviously the amount of break that is necessary is different for each person but we should be able to agree on what is a reasonable average. I think what has not yet been addressed is whether or not we should be following the schedule established 150 years ago in Europe when the modes of transportation were much different than today. Perhaps the main reason why yeshivos in those days gave off for the whole month of Nisan is that it could take a bachur a full week to travel by horse/ train etc. until he reached his shtetel. It was not practical to give off an extended weekend in the middle of the winter and instead they just gave off for 3-4 weeks in Nisan, Av and Tishrei.
Perhaps we should recognize the change in realities today and give off for an extended weekened in the winter and less dead time in Nisan and Tishrei.
Apparently the main issue that people have with smartphones is the fact that they have internet access. It makes me wonder how all the people posting here did that without going on the internet. Maybe they asked their neighbors who have internet to post for them?
Looks like it is very important to vote. I saw that Rav Asher Weiss, Rav Yitzchak Berkowitz and Rav Elya Brundy have all encourage people to vote. My questions are
1. Which party closest represent the Chareidi community ? Is it Eretz Hakodesh?
2. Is there any organization out there that is offering to fund the $7 sign-up fee? I know its relatively small but hey, every little bit helps.
Joe- I asked you for a source. Where is this record? I am not arguing with you I just want to learn more (Isn’t that why everyone checks out the YWN coffee room?)
The article from Rav Melamed is fascinating. The man writing the letter seems to be discussing his personal experience which would seem to be a very credible source. However Rav Melamed seems to shoot him down by saying “As for the allegations themselves, at least half of them are inaccurate, and the rest are only a half, a third, or a quarter accurate”
Joe- What is your basis to say that the Israeli army has too many conscripts?
Israel is very different from the US and all other countries that have volunteer armies. The US population is 331 million and Israel is 9 million of which only 3/4 are Jewish. The natural threat to Israel of its neighbors is not an issue to be minimized. The only reason why Ben Gurion initially agreed to the deferment for yeshiva students is bec. it was a minute number (400). Think one corner of the Mir. Since then it has increased 15,000%.
To make the issue of the army as “they just want to shmadzach our shevet Levi” is not accurate. It is not realistic to expect the burden of conscription to be placed on a population that will eventually become the minority. I think the issue needs to be addressed from all sides without the basis of “that is the way it has always been done”.
True, I did not sign up for the US armed forces but that is bec. they can manage without me as we see. If that reality changed and it became necessary to conscript I would not fight it. I would not want to go but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I don’t like to pay taxes or jury duty and try to get out of both in any legal way. But I also realize that there are some things that are unavoidable. I don’t look at the the IRS as a bunch of Nazis trying to take away my religious freedom.
I did not mean to be harsh and flipant regarding the difficulties in moving. Yes, moving for anybody is a stressful undertaking. But the OP and several articles I have read make it sound like a tragedy that Brooklyn is losing its youth to Lakewood. This OP was actually more hopeful by saying that the sefradim are staying. It would be great if the sefardim take over all the shul, yeshivot and mikvaot that the ashkenazim built! No issues of selling to churches and the like and it is keeping everything in the family. Wouldn’t be anything wrong if they gave them away to sfardim bec. all the ashkenzazim left!
1- No we care more about a lot of things besides grass. But that does not mean that there is a be advantage of seeing more asphalt and cement. If Jews would say “we really don’t care much about gashmiyus and expensive houses. We will focus on ruchninyus and live in a neighborhood that is ugly and unpleasant and not spend our hard earned money on extravagant neighborhoods.” However, that is not the case. Instead, the Jews 30-40 years ago chose the worst of both worlds- unpleasant neighborhoods that you need to pay a fortune for the privilege of living there. One day the kids wake up and say “hey the emperor has no clothes!” Why in the world should we kill ourselves to make ends meet and pay fortunes of money to live in cramped overcrowded conditions? “. And then the old folks scratch their heads and say “gee I don’t know why the young folk don’t want to live here anymore.” (Duh)
Kol hakavod to the younger generation for waking up and breaking out of the mindset of we need to live in Brooklyn. Unfortunately that has been replaced with the mindset of we need to live in Lakewood. Until of course their kids grow up, move out to ___ and the cycle starts all over again.
I am not understanding some of the posters here- there is no shame in making Brooklyn Judenrein (if it really did come to that). Did you ever think that Jews did not belong there in the first place? Helloooo-its galus, not the promised land. Do you really think G-d needs more Jews in Flatbush vs. Wichita vs, Cracow vs. Alexandria? For some reason a bunch of Jews chose that as their home (proximity to Manhattan?) and it became the place to be. Yes we invested a ton of money in infrastructure. But we also invested a ton of money in shuls and mikvaos in Poland. Is anyone suggesting we go back there to take advantage of it? I can think of a much greater connection Vilna or Lublin but I don’t see Orthodox Jews moving there in droves. Do you ever think how much R. Meir Shapiro invested in Yeshivas Chachmei Lublin and how many years we got out of it?
Economics is a reality and so is progress. From a pure dollars and sense standpoint is it better for 1,000 Jews to spend $1,000,000 on a small uncomfortable home in an ugly neighborhood with crazy traffic with infrastructure in place (which also needs money in upkeep) or move to a newer cheaper neighborhood and rebuild the infrastructure all over again?
Regarding the Bubbies and Zaidies who are still left there, let them get over the nostalgia, sell your your home for a fine profit and move near your kids (assuming they want you there) . Sell it to whoever is crazy enough to NEED that area and find greener pastures. Hopefully you will find them in E”Y but at the very least you can use the money to retire comfortably.
Regarding the rest of the Jews who are still there and may kvetch about smaller class sizes and higher tuition-try moving out and break the vicious cycle. Which is a bigger challenge, dealing with a few less kids in the class or needing to pay all of your staff higher salaries to keep up with the insane cost of living? How many Rabbeim can live a comfortable normal life in Brooklyn with one one job? Two jobs? If none then we have built an unsustainable system and it is time to dismantle it.
Last one out turn off the lights.
1. A significant factor of increased exemptions is likely due to the population growth of the chareidim vs. chilonim.
2. Perhaps the declining interest in the secular youth enlisting is also due in large part to the chareidim. They may think “If they don’t serve, why should I?”
3. Do you really want an 18 year with mental health issues to be walking around the streets of Israel 24/7 with a loaded assault rifle?
4. Why does it not bother you that there is an increase in mental health issues amongst your brethren?
5. It looks like the 33% includes the chareidim.
6. Dou you really think that they would just let people off bec. they claim to have mental health issues without a letter from a mental health professional?
7. Isn’t this more of a reason for chereidim to look for viable ways to work with the IDF to join the ranks of nachal chereidi if the secular will not join? If the chareidim will eventually become the majority in Israel they can’t realistically expect a minority of secular to be the only ones serving.
Stop making this an us vs. them issue without looking for for ways to address the problem.