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Kids need to play outdoors.
It’s part of raising kids. I think it’s a justified chinuch expense. It’s also cheaper than drug rehab.
What we won’t do for our kids…
Assad keep ’em coming! Thanks, it’s not good to always be so Syria’s.
And the problem with that is?
It’s actually a step in the right direction, towards YCT fully admitting that it’s not Orthodox.
Popa, thanks for highlighting it.
Which presumably they do based on sources.
Of course. Nobody said that a written source has no validity, we’re just arguing that an unwritten one can, too. What do we do when there’s a conflict between written sources?
I agree with HaLeiVi. I think PAA is looking for a more absolute answer, though, and I don’t think there is one. It kind of reminds me of the famous question in shidduchim, “How do I know when I’ve found the right one?”.
I volunteer to be in the study, though not in the control group.
…and worth every penny.
Sam, DY: Ah, but what happens when someone with that Mesorah claims that it is integral to Yiddishkeit and that you are missing something important without it?
and PAA, So if someone claims something as a mesorah is there any way to disqualify him/it?
For some reason, you both are not getting past framing this discussion in terms of and in the context of debating an issue and trying to prove someone wrong.
Whether your kashyas convince him or not depends on the strength of the kashyas and the strength of his convictions.
I’m making one point: a mesorah is not automatically wrong just because it’s not written. Obviously, though, it’s not automatically right either.
You wrote, “Why that logic doesn’t hold true is the question.”, but I think I’ve answered it.
I think there’s another pshat out there; I’ll see if I can find it.
Mevarer to whom? Those who have a mesorah will stick to it, and either be meyashev the sources, or have it shver, but fun a kashya shtarbt nisht.
Those who don’t have that mesorah don’t need it disproved, although this might convince them not to tap into someone else’s mesorah.
No, but there may be an assumption of reshus for a mitzvah, mah she’ein kein for damage of more than a shava prutah.
In other words, the nicha lei d’isavid mitzvah b’momonei includes hishtamshus and the slight “wear and tear”, both of which would be assur without mitzvah, but there’s no nicha lei on a bigger loss.
You’re a low duck. 🙂
Not bad. Thanks for asking.
I do worry about items that come from tzedaka campaigns – am I obligated to pay for the book – even if I didn’t want it
Do not worry about that.
Rebyidd23, that’s not a straw man argument.
Dear Popa Bar Abby,
What did my daughter get on her Biology Regent?
Signed,
Anxious Parent
Goose farming not working out?
HaLeiVi, I was wondering the same thing. I assume he meant in a way which would not be obvious.
MachaaMaker, I think the OP met to ask if the issue is pushed off for pikuach nefesh, assuming a case that it is, in fact, pikuach nefesh.
Sam, you’re weighing the losses, but that not the reason for the chilluk you quote; borrowing seforim today is not considered to cause a loss (shava pruta) at all.
HaLeiVi, you are making the claim (to defend Rashi) that yaavor v’al yehoreg doesn’t apply to beim adam lachaveiro. This is in fact what the Binyan Tzion says. I wouldn’t say it precisely the way you did, though, because at the end of the day, Hashem is the baalim on that as well. Maybe it’s a good enough sevara to be a pircha on a man matzinu, though.
R’ Moshe rejects this, though, because why would a person’s life be any better than his money, and we need a limud for r’tzicha.
Binyan Tzion bavorned this, though, and says ein hochi nami, but we need a limud for a case of mechilah, which surely works for money, but doesn’t for r’tzichah.
How to remove wife from basic phone.
There’s no app for that?
I completely agree. I’m just pointing out that it doesn’t help anyone besides yourself.
1) It helps anyone who trusts me to relay the mesorah I have received.
2) It means that it’s worth considering any widely held mesorah, even if it doesn’t have a firm source. I brought the shaving example to illustrate this.
HaLeiVi, Your Heter doesn’t change someone else’s property.
I don’t get that. Your pikuach nefesh doesn’t make it your property, but it changes what you are allowed to do with someone else’s property.
DDD, explain, please.
So a baal teshuva keeps his 30 year rap sheet of bein adam l’chaveiro aveiros without recourse?
He’s by definition not a baal teshuvah for those things.
Sam, I am skeptical that there’s tinok shenishbah for mitzvos sichliyos.
But if you are trying to demonstrate the wrongness of someone’s position, simply saying that he is wrong/against the mesorah is not going to get you too far
Yiddishkeit isn’t only about debate, it’s about the truth.
Someone on this site once claimed that R’ Moshe was not really mattir shaving, v’ho raya, it’s not writen in a teshuvah. I might never be able to convince him, but he’s still wrong.
The only eitzah is to daven that the people we wronged will forgive us.
??”? ???? ???? ??”?
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=591&st=&pgnum=141
The ??”? I referred to is here: (It’s actually ??”?, can the moderator please change that for me? Thanks.)
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=917&st=&pgnum=411
??”? ??”? ?’ ??”?
Torah613, $20 an hour? Not where I live (sorry, not saying where).
Not yet, I was hoping you did.
Ah, but it’s not so b’feirush in the sources, or they twist the sources. Were we (frum Jews as a whole) to have more confidence in the way our rebbeim approached things, such a movement could never get off the ground and still be called orthodox with a straight face.
Sam, I remember that as well. How does that work, though? Is it somehow considered one of the gimmel chamuros?
My point is that you need sources to dispute their source-less change to Judaism.
It’s not all about proving or disproving them wrong or right.
Yiddishkeit isn’t only about debate, it’s about the truth, whether or not I can link to it on Hebrewbooks.org.
(Squeak had a great post to that effect once, but I don’t have time to look for it now.)
I put “/page/2” after “http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/” in the address bar.
DY: The Darchei HaLimud are based on Mesorahs that have a Makor in Shas and Rishonim.(‘???)
Precisely true, but you don’t have a Gemara which explicitly says it; you only know that a particular mehalech is valid because you’ve been mekabel from your rebbeim! Shmuly Yanklowitz can also claim a derech halimud which goes back through the Rishonim to the Amoraim; he wouldn’t be wrong because mesorah doesn’t work that way, he’d be wrong because he made it up. Can we really trace the Brisker mehalech to earlier than R’ Chayim? No, but we trust R’ Chayim (why, is a shmooze for itself) that despite it’s seeming chiddush, it’s solidly based on mesorah (ang then maybe we can even go back and find remazim).
You want to know why I disagree with you so stubbornly? Because I think the approach which ignores the unwritten mesorah, especially about “intangibles”, is precicely what created the YCT monster. A lot of their credibility (to some of the hamon am) comes from the fact that they studiously avoided (until recent developments) saying anything directly contradicted by the sources. Those with a strong, unwritten, mesorah, discredited them immediately, but some of their poison has seeped in due to the fact it’s taken too long for some, who don’t have or appreciate a strong, unwritten mesorah, to reject them.
I think the similarities are not so much in their pshat in a given instance (where there is often disagreement with Rebbeim) inasmuch as a similar methodology (where they are similar to their Rebbeim as contrasted with the Chachmei Sefard).
Either way, it’s an oral tradition, as are the various darchei halimud in different yeshivos today.
With all due respect to LF, I think we can agree that (s)he is not (yet) a link in the transmission of the Mesorah.
That’s not the point. You rejected the whole idea of an unwritten mesorah, and you can’t do that. He happened to claim that he has a mesorah, and while you may or may not have a different one (and of course there can be machlokes between mesoros), you can’t dismiss it by virtue of its being oral, you can only say that it’s not your mesorah.
No one of forcing you to accept his mesorah, but you’re not merely saying that you don’t accept it, you are outright rejecting it, and that’s vastly different.
And if he budgets $800 for therapy, and the therapist keeps saying to increase the number of monthly sessions, what then? I’m telling you, I’m not giving that blasted ?therapist? another penny!
Pass the booze.
APY, examples?
Lol @ VM and ronsr.
Also, VM, you have to deduct whatever reasonable amount could be budgeted for other forms of entertainment during the time he’s gambling.
Dear Popa_Bar_Abby (I’m, um, asking for a friend),
Dh has a gambling addiction (different discussion) and thinks that it is reasonable to budget 600 a month for this. Even though we cannot afford that, he says it is really less because for sure he will win some back, and anyway it is cheaper than the therapy my mother recommended for it.
I have never been to a gambling den, so I don’t know really what a reasonable amount is. Also, no way are we paying for him to buy drinks there–he drinks enough at home for way cheaper.
So, what is a reasonable amount?
It depends on the kid, and depends on the city (many don’t have news stations on FM).
No, that’s your clumsiness (l’shitosech).
Yes, I am a liar liar. I represent the interests of liars to the wider public.
ftfy
Even if so, the marketing people are making parnassah.
Sam2 +10000000000
If it was someone I trusted, specifically someone I felt can be considered a link in the chain of the mesorah, yes.
Most of the time, no.
Ben, right. I don’t think that’s what we were debating, though. I don’t think LF was claiming that there was a gezeirah to accept “Daas Torah”.