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It seems to me that even the Aruch Hashulchan (and R’Moshe) wouldn’t hold of this heter nowadays. Boruch Hashem in recent times hair covering has become the norm it most frum communities.
Most, but not all, so there’s certainly a nafka minah.
Also, I wonder, since the reason for the Aruch Hashulchan’s heter is that uncovered hair is a common sight, if the fact that it’s common among non-frum women makes it okay, or is it talui in frum women.
Ben, even if arms are d’rabbonon (and I’m not certain that being das Yehudis means something can’t be d’Oraisa, although it certainly means that it’s not written in the passuk), other parts certainly are d’Oraisa, and if those are muttar in a bathhouse, so is hair. It is possible that the Gemara regarding Kimchis was not referring to every single occasion, but I believe that your assertion that the bathhouse would be worse than the home does not make sense. Anyhow, the d’Oraisa of hair only applies in a public place and is irrelevant in the bathhouse.
R’ Moshe and others clearly write that arms are assur despite any prevalent mode of dress, but again, whether or not that’s d’Oraisa doesn’t negate the fact that areas which are d’Oraisa may be uncovered in the bathhouse, and since there is a tzorech, hair is no worse.
Sam4321, I was referring to Geder Olam, but it’s clear in the M”B (75-10) as well.
I don’t think anyone was trying to be rude, just humorous.
Ben,
I guess you don’t feel that bein adam l’makom is important enough to merit enforcement? You also don’t feel that learning provides a service to the public?
What happens when the number of talmidim who do see siman yafeh exceeds the secular government quota?
Ben,
I would ask the same kasha on you regardless. Why would you not enforce private chillul Shabbos, but would enforce leaving the beis midrash after five years?
Also, why five years? After five years, it’s no longer a mitzvah to learn? Does the z’chus wear out? Suddenly, after five years, Torah doesn’t protect? Does ki heim chayeinu expire?
Rd,
That would only be true if the soap was nivla before the taam of the food, which is not always the case.
And if you want it kept fresh, wrap it in cello.
The irony is that Rebdoniel’s post is very much on topic, because the reason YCT has such krum politics is because they don’t know how to learn.
It is ervah b’etzem, but that’s a chiddush and needs a passuk. For krias Shema, which is talui in hirhurim, the fact that it is a common sight is a mitigating factor.*
How can you ignore the fact that R’ Moshe writes that the chiddush of sa’ar is that it is like basar, and still insist that basar is not d’Oraisa?
*It is worth noting that the Chofetz Chaim very strongly condemns saying berachos in front of uncovered hair. He does not hold of the Aruch Hashulchan’s heter.
Benignuman,
You are ignoring the main part of the issur. You speak of those who want no part of the treifine Medina, and your point with them is moot; they don’t take money anyhow.
They want to draft bochurim whose main objection is that he wants to learn, and you want that to be a crime punishable by loss of citizenship rights. Would you punish chillul Shabbos by taking away all financial benefits?
I meant to say since there isnt a Sanhedrin and wont be until Moshiach comes. How are you supposed to have a Torah Society?
You have to have one law for everyone , otherwise it doesnt work.
Are you referring to an individual, or the “Basic Law” proposed by Rabbi Melamed?
If the former, then as we currently do, those who are qualified decide what the halachah is, and those who aren’t, ask those who are (AKA AYLOR).
If you mean the latter, then until Moshiach comes, we have to take a more lenient approach, while allowing individuals to be as stringent as their opinions or those of their poskim tell the to be.
So, if I understand correctly, it’s not okay to force people to keep Shabbos and kashrus, if they would prefer to be mechallel Shabbos and eat tarfus. It is okay, however, to force people into the army if they would prefer to stay in yeshivah. Is that correct?
Whose Shabbos and Whose Kashruth. Can you force people to eat Chalov Yisroel. What if one Rav permits using an Eruv on Shabbos and another forbids it?
That’s beside the point. I was pointing out the incongruity of Benignuman’s position.
You ask, “So what would be the halachas?”.
You then write, “A sanhedrin would solve that problem since they would be the final arbitor of Halacha”, answering your own question.
I still don’t understand what you are trying to say.
The chiddush of hair, writes R’ Moshe, is that it has the din of basar. Obviously, basar is d’Oraisa, it’s just less of a chiddush.
Superme, to be clear: it’s not about touching the milk, it’s about the open container being unsupervised. There is a big difference, they’re not “kinda the same thing”.
ZD, I don’t get your point. We can have Torah society without a Sanhedrin, we just can’t carry out punishments.
If we had a Sanhedrin, it wouldn’t be up to R’ Shteinman and Chacham Ovadiah, it would be up to the Sanhedrin (they would both likely be members).
So, if I understand correctly, it’s not okay to force people to keep Shabbos and kashrus, if they would prefer to be mechallel Shabbos and eat tarfus. It is okay, however, to force people into the army if they would prefer to stay in yeshivah. Is that correct?
Google Shibuta -The Fish that Tastes like Pork!
Ari and Ari claim to have found it.
T613T,
Yes, that’s exactly what I did.
Benignuman,
Please read it again. He is clearly saying that sa’ar is more kal than basar.
He can buy it from you through ebay.
Touching milk does not affect cholov Yisroel status, but if it’s opened and not supervised, one has to assume that the milk container may be refilled with the cheaper cholov stam milk.
Put them on ebay.
He is clearly saying that hair is more kal than other areas, and that it is a lower form of ervah.
Also, the asei of making a simchat bat (regardless of the name you give it) is doche the lav of chazir.
Here is a better question, is “bris kodesh” allowed to have more than one screename?
And if one represents a male, and one a female, are they allowed to talk to each other?
There is no way to prove if you are a boy or a girl.
In depth analysis of certain subjects might be a pretty good giveaway. It would be unlikely, for example, for a chakirah about a machlokes between the Ketzos and the Nesivos to be written by a sixteen year old girl. We likely could find examples the other way, as well.
however you have to make decisions on your own, that’s why Hashem gave us bechira.
No, He gave us bechirah so that our actions deserve reward, and He instructed us “uvacharta bachaim”. Bechira doesn’t mean it’s a free-for-all.
There were gedolim who told their chassidim to stay in Poland and Germany during the war and boy were they wrong! Gedolim are human beings; they are not perfect.
But I guess you’re omnipotent? See, what you’ve just done is create a straw man to argue against. Gedolim don’t have to be perfect or be able to see the future to be the safest bet to follow.
He already did, don’t you see them?
“I don’t have a lot of money, but I’m very rich, have no castle, have no fortress, get I’m very strong. Eizehu ashir, sameach b’chlkoi, eizehu giboir kol hakoivesh es yitzroi oy oy oy”
If you were sefardi, you’d have to remember to set the Shabbos clock.
If the first sentence in the OP is not subject to Popa’s Law, mazel tov!
snortillas
Dear popa,
Is brilliance the same as low self esteem?
Benignuman, it’s also possible that a frum family is less likely to institutionalize.
I didn’t know that “brillance” was the same thing as “low self esteem”.
I tried using alcohol as an outlet, but my phone didn’t charge.
Brilliant!
Ben,
See Ig’M. O.C. 4, 112-4.
Popa, google jabbar collins charles hynes.
Sam 2, I found an Igros Moshe (Y.D. 3, 47-3a) which says that the halachos in O.C. 2,1 are midas chassidus. There’s a PM”G who brings a source for this idea, and a possible refutation.
ZD, there’s a difference between a chumra and a minhag, but either way, that person needs a lot of help.
A swimming pool should be fine; it’s a beis hamerchatz.
I recall a shuffle to the song Ashira from London School of Jewish Song.
Apy, I wasn’t asking what the dina d’malchusa is.
Lesschumras, their plates look the same.
Wanderingchana,
If everyone decided to withdraw their savings, the FDIC wouldn’t be able to bail out the banks.
If everyone in Chicago would turn on their toasted ovens at the same time, the electric grid would blow.
Do you think that making a withdrawal or toast is immoral?
And feed the sick.
If it applies when one is alone, why should it not apply when there are others around?
Benignuman,
The biggest raya that you’re mistaken is the shittah of the Rif and Rambam, who still have a gemara which says “saar b’isha ervah”.
Sam,
I’m going with the assumption that the dinim brought in hilchos hashkomas haboker are meikar hadin, although I know that some hold it’s midas chassidus.
ZD,
I’ve heard that R’ Moshe told his sons that a particular minhag (I forget which) that he kept, he is not passing to them, because it wasn’t the optimal halacha.