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This would make sense acc. to the Rema in 276 #2 where he first says Ameira L’acum is Mutter even by a Melacha Gemura B’mokom Mitzva and then says be Machmir unless it’s a case of Tzorech Godol. You see clearly he differentiated between the two!
So you’re conceding that not having cholent is not a tzorech gadol, only a d’var mitzvah, and that it’s therefore assur even according to the R’ma?
Isn’t it obvious that the unusual term “d’var mitzvah gemurah” is different than “makom mitzva”???</em.
Not really, he just means as opposed to other types of food for Shabbos which are not necessarily considered a mitzvah.
“You used the term in response to MeemaYehudis, who asked the shaila”
Yes, so???
In that context, I assumed you meant “chumra” the way it’s commonly used, not the way iy’s used in nosei keilim.
Here’s the New Shekel sign, for future reference it can be copied and pasted.
?
The only thing for which i want to criticize you, is the second word of your subtitle under your name.
That’s not (directly) his doing.
DY, in Tana D’bei Eliyahu he describes himself as being from Shevet Gad. So according to himself he wasn’t saying that.
Also, as a side note, when he mentions Eliyahu in a Pasuk he never says, “that’s me”, or any first person reference.
Reminds of the famous question asked by a brilliant talmid chochom who nebach snapped.
Why, according to the shittah that “vaHashem berach es Avraham bakol” means a daughter, didn’t Yitchak marry her?
Answer: He was choshesh for the other shittah.
If you pay a torch to set your property alight for insurance purposes, and you use the embers of the bricks and wood to roast marshmallows, are the marshmallows bishul akum?
1) They are ne’echal k’mos shehu chai.
2) You roasted them
3) You have worse problems to worry about
Any serious student of Halacha knows that this is certainly not the way the term is used in Poskim.
You used the term in response to MeemaYehudis, who asked the shaila.
He clearly is saying that were it a Tzorech Gadol the Rema l’Shittaso would permit it.
He is saying no such thing. See M”B in 325:60 who equates “d’var mitzvah gemurah” (including hot food) with tzorech gadol.
Either there’s a difference between ?? ?????? and ?? ?????? ??????, or our ?????? was already between the ??”? and ???”?, and ?”?. I prefer the former explanation.
I’m also not sure that the ?”? means “chumra” the way we use it (optional).
I agree that we don’t use the term ?? ?????? (or ?? ?????? ??????) for a clear cut din; the ?”? might just mean that it’s not up for judgement.
A general rule in learning my Rebbeim taught me way back when is: when you have a problem based on a Hanacha, throw out the Hanacha!!!
That obviously depends on how strong the hanacha is and where it comes from.
For example, the Aruch Hashulchan (34-36) explains the R’ma 253 in context of “makom mitzvah” which is equivalent to tzorech gadol.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9101&st=&pgnum=47
I found a fascinating B’er Moshe who addresses the refrigerator shaila. Vol.6, 9-11 in ?????? ????????.
He is mattir l’tzorech gadol, and says that in that case, “hakol modim”.
Let me know what you think.
DY: It is correct?
I believe so (although yit beat me to it).
Popa,
If “Judge” was being used as a title (e.g Judge Dear), I would have agreed with you.
WIY,
A casual look at Wikipedia reveals the following: “A mineral is an element or chemical compound that is normally crystalline and that has been formed as a result of geological processes.”
Nobody considers pearl formation to be a geological process.
Also, cultured and uncultured pearls are basically the same, except that cultured pearls are assisted by human intervention.
If you’re using Aaron, Moses and Elijah, use Phinehas.
Why capitalize “Judge”?
Medrash should be capitalized (and consider Midrash).
Why the Sefardi Shabbat?
Interesting, BTW, that Eliyahu is saying that Devorah was greater than him.
BTGuy,
I am ad idem.
Popa,
No, yes.
Better, though, to just write ??.
Not a contradiction; according to most poskim (R’ Moshe excepted) we don’t follow this R’ma.
I don’t see how you can be mechalek between the tzorech in 253 and what the R’ma was mattir in 276. I’m not committed to using “midi d’achilah” as the chiluk (v’tzorich iyun), but I don’t believe anyone would be mattir bishul gamur other than for a choleh.
ItcheSrulik,
Daas Yochid: You’re right. The version of daas torah people seem to be defending is not very old. In fact, you might call it an innovation.
I don’t know many people who go to a rov instead of a doctor or a real estate agent.
Many people do take advice from a rov, who might sort through the various options and offer the best one. The Chazon Ish was well known for dispensing medical advice, as is the Skverer Rebbe YBL”T. But they never performed surgery.
Daas Torah does not mean that a gadol b’Torah is all knowing or infallible, but the refinement of character and wisdom attained by certain talmidei chachomim makes their advice more worthy of listening to than that of someone who does not possess “daas Torah”.
I don’t know what you’re saying here -in my case there is No Issur -not Ameira L’acum, not Bishul A’cum and definitely not Muktza.
It might only be muktzah because of the issur of amira l’akum.
How do you get around bishul aku”m? I thought you had conceded that.
Why must you grasp at straws? This is Not the way to prove s/o else wrong!
You don’t do yourself any credit by adding these types of comments to your arguments.
#23 is going on the Mechaber of “V’yesh Oisrin”. The very next line – the Rema argues. So you’re trying to “prove” me wrong by a Shitta that argues on the Shitta I’m Soimeach on.
I wasn’t bringing a proof from that specific din; I was demonstrating that there is chiluk between tzrochim.
I’d go ahead if you explain me why you don’t understand.
Because how a situation came about has no bearing on how big the tzorech is; many cases of tzorech gadol are caused by a peshiah, and it has no bearing on possible heter.
The case of the refrigerator, where one neglected to remove the bulb before Shabbos, is clearly a peshiah, yet is considered a tzorech gadol.
Marble?
Is it a pearl?
Pearls are organic, not a mineral (same with shells).
What are they going to offer that KRM, across the street, doesnt?
A nice view of the KRM storefront.
Modern Orthodox rabbis do not give Daas Torah opinions.
That can be understood in more than one way. 😉
They would likely refer you to an expert in the non-torah area (Like Real Estate if you want an apartment or someone who knows about Doctors if you need medical help)
As would old-fashioned Orthodox rabbis.
When you plan on using this raw food -it’s not Muktza.</em.
Even if you’re not allowed to use it, and your plan was based on an error in thinking you were?
What’s the problem with learning one Shvus to another? Simple because not every Shvus has the same reason why it’s Ossur -so you can’t learn one from another.
I’ll grant you that problem, (and I’ve already demonstrated that there’s a sevara to be mechalek between ,food and other items) but there’s another problem as well; not every tzorech is the same. See M”B 307:23 where the distinction is not in the issur, but in the tzorech (which mitzvah).
And I thought I did! If You Want to Clearly Elaborate what you mean -I’ll try to explain it better.
Go ahead.
At the time Shabbos came in was the food raw or not? Yes it was -so why isn’t it Muktza acc. to you?
I don’t understand your point; are you claiming that raw, inedible food is not muktzeh?
I dunno. I haven’t seen every one of his Teshuvos.
Then you have no right to extrapolate to your case, as per the M”A I quoted earlier.
So what’s his answer?
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14336&st=&pgnum=173&hilite=
“What was so unique about your case that it was more of a tzorech than any other case of not having a cholent, in which all the poskim are only mattir a shvus d’shvus?”
I already answered you that the cases I’ve seen in S’A are talking about a Peshiah -so you can’t use the excuse of Tzorech Godol.
That doesn’t answer my question.
MSS,
I have NEVER pressured or even in any form subtly convinced any single to continue dating once they say the word no ONCE!
Maybe that’s why so many of your shidduchim prospects need to go out with 100 people.
Someone just told me that she redt a shidduch to her nephew. The girl said no after a few dates. The shadchan convinced her to speak over the inyan with a mentor, who convinced her that her issues were not substantive enough to call it off yet, and she agreed to give it some more time.
They are now B”H happily married.
There are very many such stories.
YY,
My sister and brother in law bought the new one. Their daughter is less than a year old!
At least I had an excuse, with children older than that in the house.
Avi K.,
I must protest your comparison.
Although Yiftach was certainly not on the level of other leaders, he was no rasha like Hertzl.
#20 (DaasYochid)
That wasn’t question # 20, I was just answering your question (“What’s that?”).
and that you will never pressure a guy or girl again while they are dating in any way.
That’s wrong. Many singles were too “picky”; when the right kind of pressure was put on them, they were able to overcome commitment or other issues and go on to happy marriages. This is an important reason why for many, a good shadchan is imperative for the successful conclusion of a shidduch (engagement and marriage).
The right kind of pressure can come in many forms; usually outright pressure (“Why are you being so picky!”) won’t work.
Those singles who are confident in their own abilities to find the right one, and won’t accept hep, guidance, and advice, are at a distinct disadvantage.
im a teenager and its not right
Yes, unfair, you should have been an adult. Don’t worry, though, iy”H you will be (and then you’ll wish you were a teenager).
Never listened to Marvelous Middos Machine? You had a deprived childhood.
It’s not too late…
Alexandrite – actual name chryoberyl, displaying a color change called the alexandrite effect. I was thinking moonstone, so called because of its shimmering effect, but I think that’s the actual name.
I’m just curious about the guys (and girls) who go out for many years, and eventually marry someone they went out with ten years earlier – do they also blame the shadchanim for their years of singlehood?
I have one. (But I’ll be banned from the CR if I voice it!)
Even worse than the one you’ve already voiced?
Besalel,
You’re naive for thinking $500 a shidduch after the first fifty is going to make anyone rich.
You’re cynical with an ayin ra for accusing the people at NASI of having impure intentions.
I think it’s ok to post on YW.
Lets see.
Yup.
Is this a nisayon they have from Hashem or a personality issue, or is their hard to please personality a Nisayon from Hashem?
Probably some combination of personality and bechirah.
When they finally do commit, statistically, are they happier than the guys who committed within the first ten dates?
I guess you don’t really think a controlled study was ever done, and you want opinions.
Mine: No, efsher farkert.
Adams: What else is the purpose of a date? What’s wrong with that?
Normally, of course, you’re right. in this case, however, it’s very legitimate to question whether or not it’s fair to the boy to have him invest time, money, and emotional strength into a girl who might not even want to get married.
I used to use mozzerella firefox
Goes great with marinara sauce.
GAW,
Skipping E.Y. Marrying earlier would be the likely, and probably intended, result. Kodshim is my guess.
DaasYochid: What Issur? And judging by her age, I’m not so sure that the problem you’re thinking of exists.
You guessed right, and you’re likely wrong.
Is it named after a person (according to popular lore)?
YehudahTzvi: What do she lose by living with a non-Jew?
You can’t be serious – issur every time!
DAAS YOCHID When a bochur goes to Brisk or R’Shalom he is going to get away from the normal schedual of being watched and told you have to daven in yeshiva and not in a shteibel,also to get away from pressure of family,and ofcourse to shteig .That learning part can be done also not in E”Y
That’s pretty cynical. It might be true in some cases, but certainly not in all.
As of now, it’s unfair to say that the same learning can be done here, there aren’t the same magidei shiur (I’m not saying better or worse, just different). Possibly, if such a movement took place, there would be more yeshivos opening here which learn Kodshim according to the Brisker Rov’s mehalech, but we’re not there now.
This is not a decision which should be made just to accomodate shidduchim, the entire picture – learning, maturity, hefkerus and, yes, shidduchim, has to be considered. This is a decision for Torah leaders, not shadchanim or bloggers. I have heard that there are one or two big R”Y who would like to implement such a plan, so let’s see what happens.
getzel1
Adds much humor here 🙂
Spell Checkers – a little Poem.
A Little Poem Regarding Computer Spell Checkers…
Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.
POSTED 2 YEARS AGO #
People still use ie?
Yes, to download FF or Chrome.
Will be thought of, perhaps, after ALL the girls on the list, older and younger, if they’re in the mood.
I guess you could speak for yourself, but I know of shadchanim who try to focus on girls who didn’t just start dating, without any $ incentive. I just got a call today from one, seeking information from me about a boy I know, for a girl older than him.
How could you say that the Koton really has nothing else to eat, but this isn’t considered Pikuach Nefesh?
Excellent! You were m’chavein to the Chazon Ish’s question (59:4).
Sometimes Tzorech Shabbos can be Tzorech Godol -like in my case, but not all the time!
What was so unique about your case that it was more of a tzorech than any other case of not having a cholent, in which all the poskim are only mattir a shvus d’shvus?
The Debrecener brings other cases of Tzorech Godol which pushes off Ameira L’acum even where the Melecha is D’oraysa! Not just by Kovod Habrious!
Are any of them to cook a cholent?
“The food in the crock pot must be completely cooked or completely raw -i.e. -the raw food should be placed in the pot as close as possible to Shabbos.”
What happened to Muktza? How can you eat this food?
The food was put on the fire before Shabbos, so it’s not muktzah. In your case, since food was not on a fire, and it’s assur to ask a nochri to cook it, it’s muktzah.
I’m not sure why you needed to quote the PHS; this is the basic halacha of “kidra chayso” in S.A. 253:1.