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“I think this thread ought to be removed. It is divisive and does nothing to serve the cause of achdus to cast aspersions and be motzei shem ra on an Orthodox yeshiva. “
Well, looks like you got your wish – I don’t see the names of any Orthodox yeshivos on this page, so obviously the mods deleted those posts.
“I find that most people just say stop being a liberal when they dont have a good answer.”
It would be nice…
I once heard that the reason most of the print media is liberal while on the radio you are much more likely to hear conservatives, is that someone writing in a newspaper does not have to answer any questions about what he/she wrote. When hosting a talk show, on the other hand, you will have to defend your position to the callers – and that can only be done (at least, done well) with a conservative viewpoint.
@Far East:
“The flaw is simply that bestiality is illegal any way you want to look at it…even by precedent”
I’m not quite sure what you meant by that. As of now, yes, bestiality is illegal (only in 34 states, though), but we are not discussing whether or not the ACT of homosexuality should be legal. It is the fact that we have reached a stage where proclaiming one’s deviancy is lauded, and have a viewpoint against this abomination is now considered narrow-minded, bigoted and wrong. A quarter century ago, the fact that such a large percentage of Americans feel this way would have been incomprehensible – just like now, in 2012, we are sure that no group will ever condone marriage between siblings or matrimony with one’s kangaroo. Yes, it is a slippery slope – today it’s “normal” to marry within the same gender; tomorrow it will be okay to tie the knot with one’s sister; next with a 4-year old boy, and finally with animals.
@Far East:
Not by default, but by precedent.
And I heard from people in Kashrus (including one Rov in Monsey who is VERY relied upon) that it WAS reliable.
@YW-42:
If I recall correctly, Minyan Gal lives in Winnipeg and therefore is forced to hibernate nine months a year. We’ll be hearing from her once the ice melts in June.
“So let the government re-define marriage to be whatever they want it to be. Let people marry their cars if they want to. Why should I care?”
Because it slowly numbs the American public to the fact that such behavior is disgusting, deviant and wrong. If someone practices this in their bedroom, without others knowing, then you’re right – it doesn’t make an iota of difference to us. But when society accepts it, to the point where government officials on the highest levels are championing the cause, it turns into a situation where suddenly this behavior is seen as another option, something that’s completely normal. And it becomes politically incorrect to say that it’s wrong – it’s basic human rights, isn’t it? Once something is seen as normal, it becomes a whole lot harder to be hard and fast against it without one being viewed bigoted and intolerant.
First it’s gay marriage – let’s say bestiality is next. If the government makes it legal for one to marry his dearly beloved hamster, is that okay? What if NAMBLA successfully lobbies to allow marriage between a man and an underage boy? Or how about incest? Why is it okay to be prejudiced against these things, but not gay marriage?
The liberals in this thread will tell me the difference between the cases, but in reality, the difference is that the public has decided that one deviant behavior is okay and normal, but the rest aren’t. And that itself is the reason that we cannot just look away when society attempts to “normalize” gay marriage.
Uh, there is a Dunkin’ Donuts and several Carvels in Monsey that are open on Shabbos, but, sure, don’t let facts stand in your way.
“I bentch all of Klall Yisrael that we should be zocheh to keep all the laws of Kashrus.”
I would like to add that the laws of Kashrus should be decided that those who have studied and actually know the laws of Kashrus, as opposed to “Kano’im” who feel that their limited “knowledge” of what is horribly wrong constitutes a valid reason to badmouth a business that was doing a great service to the Frum community.
{APPROVED BY MERRIAM-WEBSTER (c)}
@far east:
Because there is a distinction between society “looking the other way” when hearing about certain actions versus actively promoting them, and even encouraging practitioners of such unnatural behaviors to embrace and be proud of their tendencies.
The paintball place next door was also “de-leased”…
@HIE – chill! He’s only joking. (Actually, “baiting” is more accurate. And looks like it worked :-)…)
Like! 🙂
@YW fan:
Nope, I can’t think of a $ingle reason the $eason $tarted there…
Ooh, we can have daily YWN coffee room standings!!
Predicted order of finish:
1. Most of us (NYY)
2. YW-Moderator 42 (BOS)
3. I love camp govoah (TOR)
4. The Goq (CHC)
5. Sof davar (KC)
6. Rockland Boulders
7. YW fan (Orioles)
Did I forget anyone?
…And for Mod-42 (and I-love-camp-govoah for that matter) it’s going to be an even longer summer…
Yankees win…
Thuuuuuhhh Yankees win!!!
(which leads us to the downside of opening day…)
Mmmmmmm….dough-nuts.
I’m 100% with you on this one, but just to play devil’s advocate for a second, I can hear a parent saying, “I don’t want my kid’s friends to do things that will negatively affect them, in turn affecting my kids.” That’s why some Yeshivos won’t take any kid from a family that (openly admits to) owns a TV. Not saying I agree with the parent in this case – she is way out of line, as you pointed out – but presumably that’s where she’s coming from.
To those wondering why they were reading it in 7th grade, I think the OP said one kid read it and her parents wanted it banned from everyone else. Interesting correlation there, which probably means something. (Although the comment about Satmar was completely uncalled for.)
Shakespeare should be out of our schools not because of any words or concepts, but because it’s pointless, dumb and a waste of time. The man must have had a lot of siyata d’shmaya for that to be considered good…
Something becomes ???? because of ??? ???? ???? ?????? Seriously? Isn’t there a concept called ???? ???.
Also, someone mentioned earlier that there is a difference in Halacha with regard to a ????? – unless I am very mistaken, all that means is that if one were to kill him this person would not be subject to ???? ?”?; I would be very surprised to hear that doing so is actually allowed.
edited
If you’re smoking and you’re choking give it up, {clap clap}
If you’re smoking and you’re choking give it up, {clap clap}
If you’re smoking and you’re choking,
And you want to keep from croaking,
If you’re smoking and you’re choking give it up.
@Sam:
There are several Gemaras edited out of Sanhedrin (notable ?? ?”? and ?? ?”?), which are in fact printed in many contemporary editions of the Gemara (along with Rashi on them).
Because all other things being equal, if a boy on the East Coast has BH many good names to look into, why SHOULDN’T he first look at the ones that will not be a big hassle (timewise and economically)?
@Sam:
But in reality, since a frum man will presumably not go against Halacha, he is just as tied down as a woman is.
To use a completely irrelevant example, if someone wants to go to an NFL playoff game but can’t because it’s Shabbos, he is no more prevented from doing so than one who can’t go to a game in Week 5 because it’s Sukkos – even though one is a ???? ???? and one is “only” a ???, someone who follows Halacha will not do either, and is thus at just as much of a “disadvantage”.
@Sam:
The woman who remarries without a Get would not be ???? ????? because of that ?????; it needs to be ??? ????. She would, however, be ???? on account of her being a woman, unless she managed to overcome that issue (in which case the husband is certainly not at fault for withholding the ??).
@PBA:
There actually <is> a list of states, all below the Mason-Dixon line, from which all children are presumed to be ???????.
“If you don’t know, you don’t go!”
HMR does not dissolve the marriage; all it does is allows the husband to marry a “second wife” (which, ?????????, he was allowed to do in the first place). The marriage is still 100% intact.
The ???? ?????? brings down the ????? ???? that Notpashut mentioned ealier (actually a long time ago 🙂 ) and says that playing dreidel (and he’s ???? that it’s for money) is different. For each specific game one needs to ask his LOR.
As far as the ???? in ??????? that a few posters keep bringing up, the ???? in that ???? is like ? ????? – that as long as they have another job they are perfectly acceptable for ????? – which means that they are NOT, ??????, considered thieves.
Yes, you can say that because those of us who know of Freud and his “shittos” don’t have a problem with those references :-).
@Soleik:
The guy is over 70 and has no access to kids. Trust me, enough people know about him that it won’t be an issue.
@Poppa:
+1
It’s become the “in vogue” thing to say, “Straight to the cops! Forward…March!!” And, in some cases, that may be what the halacha will dictate that we should do. But the Torah tells us what the parameters are, not so-called “advocate” blogs. Speaking as a survivor of the abuse being discussed here, I feel comfortable with the fact that my abuser is no longer in a position in which he can harm others – and just as happy that he is NOT in jail, because that’s what da’as Torah said should happen. And this is with someone who actually did the act – as much “raglayim l’davar” as there can possibly be – kal v’chomer with those who are being accused by one person 25 years after the fact.
Really? How many people do you know who have been killed for parking twelve feet from a hydrant? Or because of alternate side parking, or going 8 MPH above the speed limit?
@Poppa:
+1
Just make sure that you’re not assigned to patrol (in terms of traffic stops and parking tickets) any frum neighborhoods…
FYI @Sam2:
Assuming the question is about Eretz Yisroel (considering he mentions seminary girls), it is not against the law (the drinking age is 18, and most bochurim/sem girls are at least that old when they’re there).
Assuming the parents don’t mind, a little bit (in moderation, of course) won’t hurt anyone.
(Obviously, if we are talking about kids who have never had a drink before, all bets are off.)
Niiiice.
….leave the YWN coffee room.
Finding out that a Sefer Torah and/or laining was possul because of that word would be rather crushing for me…
Forgive my ignorance, but I don’t live in New Jersey (B”H)- do they have school bus service on Sundays year-round? If so, presumably Thanksgiving would be the same thing. And if not, there takeh shouldn’t be busing, just like every other secular school district in the country (even when it’s frum-controlled, such as Lawrence or East Ramapo).
You’re right, as long as we know that the allegations are true and that there is danger of it happening again.
Re: Penn State, abuse and reporting-
Let’s remember that the Torah and halacha shape our morals and ethics, and not the other way around. As a survivor, I will be the first to say that abusers must be stopped at all costs, but what is legally considered mandated reporting may not be so according to Halacha.
Ask the same Rav that you originally asked…
Nah, it’s fine.
Signed,
*kapusta*
🙂 yossi z 🙂
The Wolf
Okay Jothar, so I’ve narrowed you down to being someone who understands Xhosa clicking language…any other clues, people?
I’m sorry, but I can’t give away such sensitive information. It might be used to compromise my identity. Jothar, where are you???
I don’t always smoke cigarettes, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
The Mishna Berurah writes that many places have the minhag to duchan on Simchas Torah by Shacharis (or not at all) because the Kohanim may be drunk. Nowhere does he say not to drink, unless it’s a place where they duchan by Mussaf. Not that I think out of control drinking and wild behavior is okay for Simchas Torah (although for Purim it’s fine), but the implication is that to a certain point there is no problem.
I think at this point Gebrokts is more of a minhag than a chumra. I personally do not eat Gebrokts, but not because I’m being any more machmir than the next guy – it’s just that my father doesn’t, so neither do I.