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Kind Kalman -I tried to answer you, but some Mods who will be unemployed (not me) after the Asfia didn’t let it through.
Dont Worry Be Happy -“Health – It’s arrogant to state that the only reason that the army is successful is because of Limud Torah.”
Actually this comes from the Torah and yes Hashem is arrogant -doesn’t mean you can be also!
Even if there are problems with some Fakers, by and far the Most are sitting and learning as best as possible. The Tzionim’s beef is not with these few -they are against any Limud Hatorah!
far east -“I personally do not say hallel, however i would never disrespect MO jews by storming out of davening (as ive seen many people do).”
You’re right. They should have never stepped foot into such a Shul in the first place!
Dont Worry Be Happy -“Health – I think that your assumption that people post a Zionst topic in order to be annoying or in your face is wrong and perhaps you’re projecting a bit. They can also be posting it to try to open a closed mind to a different point of view. Some people who frequent this site are pro-Israel others aren’t, it’s not 100% anti zionist. The title Yeshiva World just implies that this site is filtered to topics that are relevant to the Yeshiva World, not that only a narrow group are allowed to visit.”
They should know that they aren’t going to change anybody’s mind by posting anything here. I don’t even think that people think that anymore than they think that s/o could change their own mind. So they do it to start up.
“In my opinion it’s hypocritical to visit Israel as a tourist, send your children to learn, enjoy all of the miracles of Israel, while having a lack of gratitude towards the people whose sacrifices allow us to do all of those things. Ithink the lack of hakaras hatov breeds sinas chinam, more than a dissenting view on a message board. That may not be how you see things, but it’s a valid point of view. Some people who frequent these boards agree with me, some agree with you. Some of the opinions that I read here annoy me, some annoy you, but that’s life, everyone see’s the world differently. Do you feel that your opinions are the baseline of what is correct and everything to the right and left are automatically wrong? It’s very typical for the commentators on this board to have dissenting views in starting a topic thread and in the comments that follow, this topic is no different.”
Since you claim that posts change people’s mind -I’ll post something now and we’ll see if it changes your mind:
I think it’s the Freye and “FRUM” Tzionists who have lack of Hakoras Hatov. The only reason that their army is successful in any operation is because of Limud Hatorah. But what are the Tzionists doing? They keep cutting funding for learning Torah -they are trying to force every Frum person into the Army by outlawing the Tal law. So since they keep starting up with the Non-Tzioni Frum people -this causes Sinas Chinum!
MP -“And excuse me- it’s your DUTY to get angry???? No, it isn’t. What you SHOULD do is try to understand that because there are so many different views and opinions out there, we must be as accepting as possible. And if you believe someone is really doing something wrong, you can try to let them know in a POLITE, SENSITIVE way. I repeat: POLITE and SENSITIVE. Not by shouting, getting angry, or being rude. Letting anger into your heart will make you a sad, lonely person.”
What you fail to understand or don’t want to understand is not every scenario is the same. EG. – If s/o doesn’t know what Shabbos is and comes and posts here that he thinks it’s great to drive around in his sports car on Shabbos, then he should be treated with respect.
OTOH, if s/o is well aware what Shabbos is (eg. he was FRUM his whole life till a year ago) and posts the same thing -then he should NOT be treated with any respect.
It’s the same thing with these Zionist Holidays. They are well aware what Most Yeshiva people hold -that Zionism goes against their core religious beliefs. So if s/o comes here and starts praising them -there is nothing wrong and just the opposite, it should illicit a strong response. Shlomoh Hamelech said -“there are times for everything.”
MiddlePath -“Regarding being annoyed by other people’s political views or hashkafos: that is something the annoyed party needs to work on. Everyone is free to express themselves, as long as it is in a polite, cordial way. It is up to the ones who disagree to work on their tolerance and acceptance. Being annoyed at another’s beliefs to the point where you feel hatred is YOUR problem, not theirs.”
Not when it goes against your core beliefs. If I believe what you’re posting is based on Kefira -it’s my duty to get angry.
This anger will lead to Sinas Chinum. (Tosfos Pesachim)
Never the less, I still have to make a Machoh. Maybe it’s better if they didn’t post their Israeli views here?
I’m actually shocked at your post. You’re the one always telling e/o to make sure you don’t annoy others, but when it comes to a view that you PERSONALLY agree with – then you have no problem if it annoys others.
yichusdik -“Health, I was at an asifah for Yom Hazikaron at the largest orthodox shul in North America last night. There were over 1500 frum Jews there, and the Consul General of Israel who is leaving his post after 5 years in our city was honored and spoke officially. He spoke of HKBH’s protection, he clearly (and I have heard him say this elsewhere) described the frum community he was addressing as the bedrock of support for Israel in a city whose Jewish community, secular and frum alike, is known for its support for Israel. So, there. An official representative of the State of Israel doing exactly what you say they don’t do.”
Are you kidding? These people are expert politicians. Do you think he is going to speak to Orthodox Jews and praise Yoshka?
I’ll repeat – Name one politician in Israel speaking to the General Public and they mentioned G-d on these Israeli Holidays!!!!!
“The Medina as imperfect as it is, is unambiguously part of HKBH’s plan for the atchalta degeulah. A geulah which is for all of am yisroel, not just those who have your world view.”
Read my posts in the other Israeli politic topics regarding this.
“Again, I have you in my tfilos, and may you have the brocho of wisdom bestowed and the burden of misdirected kanous removed.”
Again, I have you & other Zionists in my tifilos, and may you have the brocho of wisdom bestowed and the burden of this belief in this Medina removed!
Syag Lchochma -“They are like the big brother who beats up the little brother. When confronted by his dad he says, ‘I did it for you dad! He was doing something to shame you.’ Dad responds, ‘You fool! He is my child. Do you think hurting my child to save my pride brings me relief? Next time leave me to take care of my childrens discipline since only I know what each deserves.'”
Yes, this Moshol would apply in a case where you shouldn’t give Musser. But there are cases where one must give Musser.
Sam2 -“Health: I wasn’t referring to this forum in particular.”
I understand that. But even in our little world here, we can stop some of the animosity between us. I was always told that if you don’t have something nice to say – don’t say it.
Actually they are posting nice things, but since a good portion of posters here don’t agree with their political views -it annoys them. Not starting these topics would diminsh Sinas Chinum here in our little corner of the world.
far east -“health- i all seriousness i dont think the medinah is the reason moshiachs not here…”
Well I do!
“imho i would say the biggest reason is because of the sinas chinam between all the different groups of klal ysiroel!”
Right after WWII there was a big Achdus in Klal Yisroel, even people who were in the US during the war -felt very close to Jews from Europe. This Achdus was probably enough to bring Moshiach.
What did the Zionists do? They created a State. Not only did they make a Great Divide between Frum & Frey, they caused friction amongst the Frumme. Some people supported the State & others didn’t. If you think this is Esschalta D’geula you are very much mistaken!
Dont Worry Be Happy -“Health – Even if a blog is targeted towards the yeshivish community, it’s still a free for all for anybody in the world to read and comment on. What’s the point of having a discussion board that only expresses one point of view?”
You totally missed my point. I never said the Zionists can’t come here and post.
“Your statement about what type of people make or don’t make comments on all kinds of blogs, which lead to sinas chinum has no basis in reality. How can you possibly back that statement up?”
Simple, it’s my opinion.
I’ll explain it to you. The guy was asking why is there so much Sinas Chinum on Yom Hatzmoet? I answered a reason, maybe not all the reasons, but a reason.
I don’t think you need to be a genius to figure out that if you come to the YESHIVA World and start a topic praising the Zionists -that this might annoy some people here. If you annoy people they get upset and respond. So if s/o wants to diminish the Sinas Chinum don’t start topics that annoys people, even if it’s your right. I’m sure if they started these topics on MO or Mizrachi sites -the posters there would Not get annoyed.
Kind Kalman -“Health- You did not say that you did not read the article in your first post. You only stated that later after everyone was bashing you. This is how Lashon Hara starts. You tried sspreading Laz about Mishpacha based purely on secondhand information. Please do not do this in the future.”
How about refraining from being Motzay Laz on me? Instead of Kind Kalman -how about Kindly Kalman -like Kindly refrain? I’ll post my first comment now:
“How could you call something good when they just had an article promoting Alcoholism?”
This question was answered and refuted.
“They are making an Asifa against internet because that is becoming a major destruction to Klal Yisrael in both terms of gashmiyus and ruchniyus. Many people still do not believe it is that bad to have internet and are not convinced that it will be damaging to them. It could damage anyone, even the guy who learns the most and has the best middos.”
Ok.
“The other things you mentioned are definitely a problem, but are not as bad.”
And why not? Everytime you go on the Net you are Oiver an Issur – obviously acc. to you – you are also Oiver an Issur everytime you light up or drink -not for a Mtzva.
“Most people understand that drinking and smoking are bad.”
Really – not the impression I get? Most Yeshivos will throw out if you have the Net, but not if you smoke or drink.
“The majority of Jews have internet, and I believe only a minority smoke or have drinking problems.”
Any Statistics to back this up? I’m assuming when you write Jews you mean Frum ones.
“Anyway, maybe they will do something major like an Asifa about the other problems if they see that this will work. You cannot work on everything at once. One thing at a time. If they would’ve picked alcoholism then you would have got upset that they weren’t doing smoking or the internet. Just understand that the Gedolim are doing their best to combat this menuvaldika American society as best as they can.”
From previous:
“And these people who support these mags think that the Internet is the only thing where you are being exposed to bad things. Why isn’t there an Asifa against Alcoholism & the mags that promote it? I know they would never have an Asifa against smoking – that they could never do -it wouldn’t be PC!”
Stop with they would do it but they have to pick something first because smoking has been around a lot longer than any internet and if they wanted to make an Asifa – they had ample opportunity way beforehand.
Nechomah -“Health, I just wanted to comment that, knowing how this is a difficult subject for you and seeing your personality on so many other threads, I think you are a very strong contributor to this thread in a positive way. Your points are well taken and on the mark.”
TY!
Yes, there is medical treatment for it. In Israel, you might find the same problem as England – since their medicine is socialized.
Wait folks, our system isn’t yet Socialized, but our Pres. promised it will be shortly!
shmoolik 1 -“in all seriousness if there was no Medina and the British did not leave what would have become of the sheris ha plaita no country would have wanted them the Tora Institutions of Eretz yisroel would not be”
In all seriousness, if there was no Medina – Moshiach would probably be here by now and all of Klal Yisroel would be in EY -serving Hashem & keeping the Torah!
Sam2 – Ya’ see most Yeshivishe people don’t come on blogs (whether Yeshivish or Mizrachi) and say I don’t celebrate Yom Haatzmoet, but why do a lot from the Zionist camp have to come, esp. on Yeshivishe web sites, & announce how they are observing this day? There seems to be a pattern of “in your face”. This causes more Sinas Chinum than anything that I know that the Yeshivishe world does!
yichusdik -“Well, Health, that’s certainly a convincing response. It’s OK, though. I understand that it is hard to change a misguided way of thinking in a flash. I’ll daven for you.”
The only one that is misguided is you! I’d say I’d Daven for you, but there are too many like you. I’ll just Daven – that Hashem should bring Moshiach ASAP!
“Oh, and just one more demonstration of how misguided your position is, Health. Hmmm. must come from a home where torah is ignored, right?”
My post wasn’t against individual politicians – which is another one of sneaky tactics. Actually Bibi is one of the better ones -probably since Begin.
It was against the Medina. I don’t know if you are aware, but the Medina is based on Kefira. It’s sad that you tend to ignore this fact.
Btw, you didn’t answer my question -did even one speech given on Rememberance day mention G-d?!?!?
mully -“Health — Maybe read the article before commenting, and you will see you are completely off the mark.”
I said clearly in my post -I was stating my opinion based on what I read here in the CR.
“I’m under the impression, correct me if I’m wrong, that no opposing article was published in the mag.”
I’m very happy that they are against drinking -which they should be.
Maybe they can do the same thing with smoking?
Mully -Do you think they have the guts?
tzaddiq -“Health- it was not PROMOTING alcoholism.”
You and for some reason the other posters can’t admit the truth. Most of you say you didn’t agree with it. Fine.
I personally didn’t read the article, but gleaned my info from a topic here in the CR.
I’m under the impression, correct me if I’m wrong, that no opposing article was published in the mag.
If a mag presents only one opinion – yes – that means they agree with that opinion.
An article defending people who have an alcohol problem and saying it’s not so bad is indeed PROMOTING ALCOHOLISM!
OneOfMany -“mermaid was obviously making the point that divorced people, specifically, will try to justify their state and will have a negative influence on your marriage. Which is ridiculous.”
Where did you get all divorced women? He/she was talking about a specific case where divorced women did influence the wife to divorce. So the lesson is – not to stay away from divorced women, but to stay away from bad people. Esp. don’t listen to people who offer opinions on your marriage. If you have questions regarding your marriage – friends & family aren’t the ones to ask. Now is the time for expert opinions, either Rabbonim with Sholom Bayis experience and/or marriage counselors!
yichusdik -“It might be if it were true. I’ve given personal edus and public expressions that it is not true”
You know how to write a lot, but unfortunately for you I can cut through the smog. It is true and stop about what some say privately or sometimes publically. I want to know did any Gov. official mention Hashem in any of the speeches on Rememberance day? I doubt it. I saw some quotes of speeches, but no mention. No, I didn’t listen to every speech but I’m sure Hashem wasn’t mentioned. All the speeches are just basically Koach V’oizem etc.
The result of having a Yom Zicahrohn is just more Kefira. So there should be No official day.
At least you’re honest and admit that you’re Nogiea B’dovor – so you will never see the truth. But the truth is the State is based on Kefira, even if you find some good here and there.
yitayningwut – Where did you get that we are putting words in their mouthes? I’m sure they don’t have their own opinion. If most Gedolim hold it’s Ossur -I’m sure they don’t argue. You’re the one putting words in their mouthes, not me.
Because they won’t throw s/o out for smoking doesn’t mean they hold it’s fine.
Feif Un – This was discussed over & over. The Pogroms started after the Zionist movement infruiated the Arabs.
And the reason that many Jews didn’t live there at the time was because they didn’t have air travel.
Who knows -if not for the Tzionists making a State -maybe Moshiach would be here already?
It would have been easy for Hashem to transport all Jews there by airfare -some say this is the meaning of Kanfey Nesharim.
tzaddiq -“now it is good but not great.”
How could you call something good when they just had an article promoting Alcoholism? And these people who support these mags think that the Internet is the only thing where you are being exposed to bad things. Why isn’t there an Asifa against Alcoholism & the mags that promote it? I know they would never have an Asifa against smoking – that they could never do -it wouldn’t be PC!
OneOfMany -“Moral of the story – don’t be friends with divorced people.”
I assume you are joking. She was friends with bad people, nothing to do with their marital status. They got divorced for the wrong reasons and influenced the wife. In my case, the main instigator is married. Stay away from Reshayim is the Moral of the Story. And if you don’t know the difference – meaning you aren’t a good judge of people – seek guidance from Rabbonim & Rebbeyim/Morahs!
yichusdik -Now I could argue that -that’s not what these Gedolim meant or other Gedolim said these Shittas were wrong, but that’s not the point. The point isn’t either whether to have a day remembering the killed soldiers -this in itself isn’t wrong.
The point is, what you “Frum” Zionim fail or don’t want to understand is this:
What does the Gov. do on this day? They speak about how strong they are -how strong their army is and how much stronger they & the army will be. People who learned all the Torah, not just pick bits & pieces to fit their fancy, understand this is clearly Koach V’oizem Yodi Ossoh Ess Hachayil Hazeh.
Being like this is Direct Kefira against Hashem and is one of the reasons Hashem brings destruction on the Jews. (Parsha Tochocha)
So to summarize, remembering the fallen in itself might be a good thing, but since this causes a Great Chilul Hashem, it’s better off not to have such a day.
Why can’t you understand this simple concept? Why do you have such Negious to the Freye Medina?
bein_hasdorim – Believe it or not – friends can do the same thing as these Shviggers and it happenned to me.
Zdad -“Since internet is basically banned in Lakewood, why would someone who doesnt have internet want to go”
That’s exactly why some are going – to feel that they’re better than the next guy, even if they don’t have it.
Cindy -“What else do you think might be the cause, Dr. Health?”
First, Who said I’m a Doc?
Second, it depends on if there are other things going on like weight loss. If there are -then it would need a workup.
If it’s just your feet -maybe you measured wrong the first time.
yita -“At least not according to the Roshei Yeshiva of many prominent yeshivos.”
I agree with Mod 42. Just because they don’t react to it doesn’t make it Mutter.
This goes to show the confusion people have when it comes to Halacha.
I think a big part is all these Kol Korays. These Kol Korays emphathise certain things and then people think well if they didn’t make a Kol Koray -then it must be Ok.
I don’t believe in Kol Korays or Asifas. I think e/o in life should have a Rov and ask Shailos to him – whatever that comes up.
Cindy –Guess what? You think you have problems – My brain is shrinking. That’s right – a lot of organs & organ systems get smaller as we age. Aging starts about 30 -35 years of age.
computer777 – “If a woman doesn’t treat her husband properly, he should check his own behavior towards her. Therein will usually lie the problem (sure, not always, but most of the time it’s true.)
However, if a man doesn’t treat his wife properly, usually has nothing to do with the wife’s behavior towards him (again, not always, but most of the time.) And sometimes it’s just tit for tat, but if he will change his behavior towards her, that will change too.”
You just repeated yourself two times that it Is the man who usually doesn’t treat the wife properly most of the time.
Do you have any statistics to back up your claim?
I doubt it.
So if you want to be objective and I do, otherwise I could just say you’re wrong and you don’t know what you’re talking about, the most you can say it’s 50 -50. That means half the time the woman starts Not treating the man nice & half the time it’s the man!
Parshaman -“Smoking is very addictive. I do not smoke but my Chavrusa does and he is trying to quit but it is not easy. He smokes much less than he used to though, and I would call him a Ben Torah. and Health- Smoking is not comparable to any of those cases,”
And why not? Because movie or alcohol addiction is Not PC in the Frum Yeshivish world, while smoking is.
“but it doesn’t mean that someone who does it is not a Ben Torah, especially those who are trying to quit.”
I’ve posted many times here in the CR that trying to quit would be an excuse acc. to Halacha. But I’ve also posted that almost noone is really trying to quit. Unless the guy is doing a 3-pronged approach to quitting -he isn’t trying to quit!
So you can’t have it both ways – either e/o who has an addiction or a Taava (all the things I mentioned before -eg. watching movies) are considered Bnei Torah or they are not & this includes Smokers!
hudi -“Sleep before.”
Never slept before on the first nite.
Next day I slept plenty.
If it wasn’t that busy I’d go to sleep on a couch in a rec room.
Best thing before you go to sleep is tell your handler I’ll be over ____ and call me if you need me. They usually won’t bother you. Even going to sleep betwen 3 & 6 makes a big difference the next day.
Parshaman – “I think it is ridiculous to say someone who smokes Can not be A Ben Torah.”
With this logic you can say: -I think it is ridiculous to say someone who is an Alcoholic Can not be A Ben Torah.
-I think it is ridiculous to say someone who watches TV & Movies Can not be A Ben Torah.
-I think it is ridiculous to say someone who goes mixed swimming Can not be A Ben Torah.
I could go on & on. If you are doing Issurim all the time over & over – No you are Not a Ben Torah!
Yenta – Welcome to the medical field. It ain’t easy. I never liked it when I had to do it. Luckily it’s not usually that busy as day.
yoyo56 -“why cant a smoker be a ben torah??”
Because we just had a topic on smoking – clearly most Gedolim say it’s Ossur to smoke. Even if a Bochur deludes himself and says -“It’s not that dangerous”, he can’t possibly be a Ben Torah because he doesn’t listen to most Gedolim.
yoyo56 -“i didnt mean it in that way this guy is an amazing person but he smokes thats his flaw others guys have other flaws and dont smoke chap?”
Oh, I chap, but you don’t.
“also many guys who are in yeshiva smoke…should i go for a guy whos not in yeshiva which means hes home isnt goin to be a totaly torah based home? or maybe it is if im lucky to find a guy who is out of yeshiva and wants a torah home?”
FYI -There are many Good guys in Yeshiva who don’t smoke.
“i guess this is all abt giving up sumthing for another!
would u make the sacrifice if u were inmy case?”
The scarifice is only in your mind. My curiosity is – who is feeding you this info? Who told you that it’s only the Cool With- It smoking guys that are Bnei Torah?
This is what I was talking about with Olam Hasheker. There is no such thing as a Non-smoking Ben Torah?!?! In my mind, an addicted smoker, no matter how well a learner he is, can’t be a Ben Torah.
A “Smoking Ben Torah” is an oxymoron!
yoyo56 -“im not dating yet but there are guys who ive heard alllot abt they are great guys but they smoke…and say they have stopped many times have allot of self control and will stop!
i am very aganist smoking but should i go for a guys whos a little less but doesnt smoke?!?!”
This is what I don’t understand or actually I do because of Kol Hodom Kozave.
The guy(s) who’s with it & smokes to be part of the crowd are great guys, but the guy who doesn’t is “a little less”.
Olam Hasheker!
LBK -“Health – the question was “would you hold back” and I answered yes. Why does that imply that i smoke?”
Sorry -I thought the yes was going back on Csar’s post.
I think the father posted somewhere that he didn’t have a good prognosis.
TIGER69 -In your defense of young people drinking you bring out two points. One – older people have desires for material things and noone condenms them. 2. You say it’s a stage that will pass.
1. Even if there are older people who do things for pure Gasmhius reasons -it’s wrong also. Two wrongs don’t make a right!
2. You even allude to this yourself – right now it’s wrong, even if it’s only a stage. You can’t do things wrong just because it’s a stage in life. The Yetzer Hora will always use this excuse to get you.
It might not be your fault -once upon a time – there were leaders who taught people right from wrong. Nowadays, we have heads of Yeshivos & Parents that only stress external things, eg. no internet.
Nothing by itself is inherently wrong -it’s how you use it. How you use the net could be right or wrong. How you use alcohol on Shabbos could be right or wrong. I’ll even say cigarettes -if someone only smokes on Purim and takes a cig. a few times a year (not more) -eg. a Choson cig. is Not wrong.
Using alcohol for an outlet is just a euphemism for addiction.
Addictions need Professional Help!
Csar & LBK –
Quit now before it’s too late!
Read the posts on the Issur to smoke topic!
Yoya -yoya -Please quote the article -so we can comment.
LS – Best thing is to get away -leave the area. There is something called PD. You can call them if you’re being harrassed. If physically attacked use Mace and then run because they will charge you with something in this “Free” country. You will be wrong, no matter what, in our PC country of ours.
a mamin -“Aries, The Wolf, Health, Zeeskite.”
TY!
PBA – “Sheep without a spleen.”
Since you nominated him you must be related.
Let’s try and figure this out – PBA, Sheep & Bar Shattya.
Is it PBA and his different personalities?
Is Bar & Sheep his sons?
Is Bar & Sheep his brothers?
Is Bar & Sheep his fathers?
“Uhh -How could s/o have more than one father?”
Answer to the dolt – Real & Step.
I could make many more combos, but I’m not that bored.
computer777 -“Did you see avhaben’s creditials that you can decide that he is an expert?
avhaben thinks it’s perfectly fine for a husband to dominate his wife. In my view that is called abuse. You can agree with him and think it’s not, but doesn’t make either you or him correct.”
You totally missed my point. I was using him as one of many. The posters have quoted experts saying that they feel most of the time the woman is at fault. I was giving the reason for this occurance. – That there is way too many women calling their situation abuse when in reality it is Not! There are mental health professionals who can decide if your case is abuse or not.
I’m not an expert in abuse, neither is avhaben and neither are YOU!
Arguing about a word is ridiculous. E/o has their own opinion on the definition of domination.
The abuse has to be concrete and each case has to be judged up individually by a counsellor!