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Also, maybe some of the posters can back me in asking YWN to create separate Tehillim lists -one for sick people and one for people needing Shidduchim.
PBA – All I can say is that they are both bad. But both types should never give up hope for a Yeshuah.
And to all those who don’t have these kind of Tzoros – you should keep those that do in your minds. You should Daven for them and if you know of two singles/divorcees that might be Tzoogepassed -set them up!
PBA – “Health: You really think you’d rather be your age and single than divorced with kids?”
The problem with your way of thinking is this – it has to be one or the other. Either divorced with kids or single. Perhaps if the Soton wouldn’t have laid a trap with these people who told lie after lie and the divorcee wouldn’t have fallen in, perhaps he/she could be happily married with kids to s/o else.
Let me explain you something -the Torah says “Lifnei Ever Lo Ceetain Michsol”. Why not? If Hashem wants he will trip and get up again. In other words no damage will come to him either physically or spiritually, so why is it Ossur? The answer is because a lot of people aren’t on the Madreiga to withstand Nisyonos. So if this Nisoyon would never have occured they wouldn’t have ended in the mud! A person has that Bechira to reject being the Shaliach. We see that by the Army General who was supposed to destroy the Bais Hamikdash.
Some Meforshim explain why Sodom had to be destroyed in this world as opposed to letting them lead out their lives like everyone else and then get judged up. Many people in this world don’t keep Bain Odom L’chaveiro just like the Sodomites and Hashem doesn’t destroy them right away. They answer is like this -If a poor person came to do the door collecting, they didn’t just tell them -I don’t want to give -they said it’s Bashert for you to be poor. This type of attitude has to be destroyed right away. Hashem has his Chesbonos why he does certain things, but us who live in this world have to do what we are supposed to do anyway.
People Redding Shidduchim sometimes make the same Chesbonos – Oh I don’t have to tell him/her basic stuff -if it’s Bashert it will work out, if not, not! People aren’t allowed to lie or do Geneivas Daas on major things that will make a difference in the marriage.
If your relative would come here and post his opinion, then fine. He has the right to argue with my opinion- being he has gone through the same thing. But you and others who have Not gone through this – who gave you the right to speak for those whom are living this Gehinom?!?!
mommamia22 -You should have never gone to a Mekubel. Mekubalim are like dream interpreters. They interpret any way they want. I’m not saying it’s Ossur to go to them, but following the Posuk of “Tommim Tehiyeh” one will not lose out.
haifagirl -“The question is, is that better than never getting married? The answer is an unequivocal “yes.””
That’s not what he said. This is your interpretation due to your own situation!
PBA -“Isn’t it better to get married and have kids, even if the marriage is fair-bad and you get divorced after some time?”
I love the what if’s! Before you decide to tell the world your opinion, why don’t you try it yourself and then come back and tell us?
quark2 -“divorce is a healthy normal thing that should be done as needed”
Oook, so after your divorce and you lose your kids (If you’re married and have kids.) -come back here and tell us how much you like it.
Also, who decides it’s needed the couple’s friends and family or professionals?
BPT – “My comments are based on what the OP says, and I have no reason to doubt her.”
Why? Because the wife says so or because the wife said the Rov said so?
He BTW, also has a Chezkas Kashrus beside the fact “its not that uncommon in our circles to find husbands that are allowing their wives to bear the burden of both the homemaker AND the breadwinner”!
“But I still stick with the 6 month deadline. If he is willing to work things out, she will surely give him the chance.”
Memana Shuch, if he is willing to go for couselling, you wait until the therapist says so. If the therapist says he is progressing, so then you keep waiting. If he isn’t willing to go for therapy, why wait six months? She shouldn’t stick around even now!
“(L-rd knows, she’s given him 10+ years!)”
Like I posted before – the time until now doesn’t make a difference, a person can turn over a new leaf with the help of professionals. Unless the professionals say there is no use and btw this situation is very, very rare. Mental Health professionals can help almost anyone. But I find your attitude to be pervasive in the Frum community by a lot of people even some who are Rabbonim. Stop judging up others unless you are experienced in marital counselling. There are Some Rabbonim and therapists who are. And just like there are doctors whom are specialists, there are Rabbonim and therapists who specialize in marital counselling and/or advice!
BPT – The reason I only quoted part was to ask her a question. I only need to quote what I have to for the purpose of my comment.
And it seems that you are wrong, she has more than one voice telling her to hold back. She has to figure out what is behind THAT voice!
Jewishness – Along with evil speech always goes Sinas Chinum!
quark2 – Are you Joseph? Because this sounds like a topic he would start!
BPT – “The husband in this case refuses to cooperate. Even so, my vote is to give him the choice to work on himself, or at least try.
10 years is a long time to be tolerant. And the kids are seeing this neglect, so that is only poisoning them to the bargain. If he does not want to be an active partner, its his doing, not ours, not hers.
If he has not taken his responsibilites seriously till now, its doubtfull he will turn a new leaf at this age.
Proffesional help will delay the process, and cost $$$.”
Talking about not being Dan L’caf Zecus!
How do you know -“he refuses to cooperate” because the wife says so or because the wife said the Rov said so?
How do you know – “If he has not taken his responsibilites seriously till now” because the wife says so or because the wife said the Rov said so?
“Proffesional help will delay the process, and cost $$$.”
If you take all her comments at face value, then you MIGHT be correct. I know there are always two or three sides to every story. The best advice is to seek marital counselling and perhaps for him to go to his own therapist and psychiatrist! Ten, twenty, fifty years are long times, but if he suffers from mental illness and never got treated -doesn’t mean the treatment won’t help! It’s never too late to change. And sometimes a person needs professional help to facilitate this change. Throwing him out with the trash will cause more problems than trying to do whatever possible to save the marriage!
Another name – Oh the feelings were mutual -we both wanted to keep trying! But her “friends” and some of her family kept pushing. She wasn’t strong enough to reject that kind of pressure.
I’m probably the first to say this about an ex, but I actually don’t know if I was subjected to the same thing – of her almost daily manipulation that she got, if I would be able to withstand it. I just am wondering why no male ever pushed me that way?
One thing I will say -these women aren’t in the category of “Noshim Tzidkoneyus”! Now esp. during the three weeks, we need the Noshim Tzidkoneyus to take over. Chazal say because of Noshim Tzidkoneyus we will go out of Golus.
There is way too much LH and even more than LH, there is Motzay Shem Ra, which I believe is one of the main causes of divorce!
LD – “Everything is good, but theres this small nagging feeling inside, like the whole “gut” thing…I’ve spoken to close and wise friends and older guiding adults- they all said to keep going…so I am… “
BPT says -“That’s the voice inside your head that says, “I don’t deserve this” and “its too good to be true”.”
Now IMHO, is that what the voice is saying (what BPT posted)?
If it is, then he with your guiding adults are correct. If the voice is saying something else, then you should listen to the voice, it’s never wrong.
I once heard if you’re waiting to hear bells -go next to a church.
But from experience if there is a little voice telling you no, always listen to the voice!
My 2 cents – They both need to go to marriage therapy ASAP. He might need his own therapy and to see a Psychiatrist.
My bewilderment is that so many posters are saying divorce him. Now I know my case isn’t one in a million. How can any of you tell s/o else what is good for them, esp. the ones who are younger? What credentials do you have to Judge up what is best for both of them? Let’s say this women listens to all your advice and gets divorced and goes OTD. Do you think you have done a Mitzva or a Big Aveira with your advice? Divorce is only indicated when a professional therapist says this is the only way to go – as a last resort!
Bowwow – Even if you go to court, they force you to do mediation before anything else. Good Luck!
Another name -“Peacemaker, people don’t just divorce because of outside pressure. If the couple decides to follow the advice and divorce, it means that they already wanted to and probably needed to. The “support” just makes it easier.”
Wrong! I can’t speak for others, but by me this was exactly the case. The “support” was the one(s) who managed to convince her to get divorced.
Chein -“Unfortunately they become highly educated but unmarried.”
“The pursuit of a higher education is often the reason she delays her shidduchim.”
I disagree. I think most learning guys want college girls because they can bring home the bucks. Also, I don’t think a lot of them delay going out because she is in school. The third over 25 are probably mostly non-college girls.
adorable – “I know someone who really wants to remarry and has dated over 100 girls but hes still single.”
Did it ever occur to you -maybe there is a reason this guy is divorced?
aries and Ron – IMO, I would tell you to get the nasal mask. I can’t really say it’s more comfortable because I never tried any mask myself because I’m not on CPAP. But from puting it on patients, I got the impression it’s comfortable.
” Most proponents just want to have the ability to roll a joint without consequence.”
And this is why I can’t understand why Christy is supporting these people. Aveira Gorres Aveira. Now the gov. of NY wants to legalize medical Pot!
ronrsr – Are you using a face mask or a nasal mask or something else?
adorable -“I know another single guy who doesnt either want to get married- same reason”
I don’t have these hang ups. I want to remarry!
Ctrl Alt Del – You can still get a hold of the totally automatic ones.
adorable -“I wasn’t saying that its the way it should be but i think people come in hoping to get something out of marriage but then the minute they dont get it they are out.”
Perhaps there are some like this, but not many. Most are like me and work and work until it ends. I tried for 18 years and I would still have kept trying, but her “friends” and family pushed her to leave.
Charlie – “That said, marijuana is MUCH less of a public health hazard than alcohol. Potheads do not get violent, do not commit crimes of passion, and are not feared by the police the way that they fear people who are drunk. Just imagine what a disaster Woodstock would have been had the drug of choice been beer rather than pot! It is not clear that there has ever been anyone who has died from marijuana use. But potheads can suffer other effects — I had a roommate flunk out of college because he was high on pot for the entire semester.”
While I don’t know if your statement is accurate because I haven’t done research into it, I agree that alcohol should be under tight control. No drinking and driving and other laws should be strictly enforced. The only reason I disagree with prohibition is because there are many religions who use it for religious purposes, not just Judaism. So there is legitimate usage of alcohol, but as far as I know there are no legitimate usages of Pot, despite the potheads who claim all the medical benefits. If these potheads want so much to legalize it for medical use, let them apply to the federal gov. for a waiver and do legitimate medical studies. I guess it easier to convince state lawmakers to allow it, than going about it the right way.
I’m actually surprised at Gov. Christy. I always understood the other states that don’t care about federal law because they are a bunch of bleeding hearts and don’t want to be called mean-spirited by these potheads. But until now, I thought Gov. Christy was not like them. He is a former US attorney and I thought law took precedence over politics. But I guess a politician is a politician, no matter what your background is – conservative or lib.!
600 Kilo Bear – I like your sense of humor, but it’s a good thing you post anon. If you posted your name s/o might give it into your licensing board and they might call you out on this.
The problem with this case and a lot of cases – that there are two sides. He also had a Bais Din that sided with him. The reason a lot of people withold the Get is because they feel that they weren’t treated fairly in the Bais Din or Court of law. Sometimes this isn’t true and the husband just wants to be mean. But unfortunately, a lot of times it is. The Bottey Dinnim and Courts aren’t always where Justice takes place. To say that nowadays the Bottey Dinim have the right to enforce their Psakim with violence, is showing that you are extremely ignorant of what happens in our “Justice” systems nowadays.
The way it appears to me is that the father of the wife used the Bais Din in EY to throw the guy under the bus. He then hired henchmen to do his dirty work. I believe that this is a good possibility, even though of course I can’t know 100%. But for s/o to claim that anyone can take the law into their own hands without even taking into consideration of this possibility is putting their heads in the sand!
adorable -“I agree that the ones that get married older have a harder adjustment- I think they come in to a marriage hoping that a wife will “fit in” with their already “made” lives and they are less willing to change their little world that they built for themselves.”
You are so mistaken, but it’s really not your fault because this is what people say. People are two -faced. They tell you one thing and do another. For a successful marriage each one has to give 95% to end up 50 – 50, no matter how old either one is. There are some marriages were one controls the other totally. Some people are fine with this, some (male or female) are too weak to make any changes. But this isn’t the way marriage was meant to be.
minyan gal – “I believe that it is not as efficacious as the genuine thing. (I don’t mean that it is my belief, it is what the studies have shown).”
Those studies were from the potheads. Please post one study from a reliable medical source.
I’m absolutely shocked that people posting on a Frum blog are in support of drug abusers (pot heads). I just hope that none of them are actually pot heads. Here is what the US Drug Czar (previously) wrote:
In a White House press release, Drub Czar Walters urged Americans who depended on doctor-prescribed marijuana to look instead to “proven medicine by legitimate doctors,” for relief of pain caused by chronic illness. “Smoking illegal drugs may make some people ‘feel better.’ However, civilized societies and modern day medical practices differentiate between inebriation and the safe, supervised delivery of proven medicine by legitimate doctors,” stated Walters.
On June 6, 2005, the Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that federal law can be used to prevent doctors from prescribing marijuana for treatment of pain caused by serious illnesses, including cancer.
Walters also questioned the proven effectiveness of marijuana as a pain reliever. “To date, science and research have not determined that smoking a crude plant is safe or effective,” he said. “We have a responsibility as a civilized society to ensure that the medicine Americans receive from their doctors is effective, safe, and free from the pro-drug politics that are being promoted in America under the guise of medicine.”
“Now, a couple in NJ was arrested by the FBI for beating up a guy who wouldn’t give a ??, and who ran away from the rabbanut to america. So now they say the Ultra-orthodox are crazy fanatics who run around beating people.”
I know the guy -he lives near me. I was his classmate and I still can’t figure out why he did it, even for money. There’s got to be more to the story.
“What about reducing of stress and headaches? this is not a category for medical marijuana but isnt’ it a medical reason?
Migrane headaches yes but not stam headaches.”
Statements like these prove the people who want legal pot are just potheads. Btw, there is already legal pot in a pill form. The pot heads want to smoke it without getting a ticket or going to jail. They just found a way to legalize it in some states by coming up with some sob story -I need it for my health. If you really need it for your health- what’s wrong with taking it in the pill form? How about coke -that’s good for xyz? And the list can go on & on.
oomis1105 – You and other posters can disagree all you want, but doesn’t make your theory accurate. Like I said I recall a case when I was a kid – that a Frum kid was taken and killed from the worker in a store. And this was in a time when the streets were more or less safe. The problem is you people don’t want to admit that you aren’t in control. Just because we do Histadlus doesn’t mean we are in control.
I’ll repeat what I posted before:
1. Try to make sure your kids don’t go anywhere alone. Alone means without a responsible adult.
2. If sometimes they have to be alone make sure they have a cell and know how to use it. If the parents aren’t home make sure their cell # is in the phone or s/o elses whom they can contact. Any school will let the kid have a cell if it’s given to the office and held there until the kid finishes school. Obviously it’s prudent to call the school and explain why they need it that day.
Oomis – And you so missed my point! What is the difference of him going to a Jewish store or him stopping a Jew in the street? I just pointed out to you -L. Aron worked in a store.
Lessons to learn:
1. Kids shouldn’t walk alone.
2. If they have to, make sure they have a cell and know how to use it.
wolf -“You’re equating “got a kappara” with “teshuva was accepted.” They are not the same.”
I am?? Where did I post his “teshuva was accepted.”?!?!
Maybe you’re getting mixed up between me and the Coffee guy???
“So all of Yosef’s brothers were chayav misah?”
Don’t you remember the Ten Haroogay Malchus we say on Tisha B’av and Yom Kippur? That’s the excuse the Goy gave to start killing e/o!
Charlie – “That is a serious pilpul on Rambam that is not consistent with the rest of the treatment of Noachide laws, where he simply follows the pshat of the gemara. Nowhere is there any suggestion that an eid is anything other than a witness. Remember that we are not talking about Jewish courts here.”
It doesn’t matter what Court, it says Eid by the court procedings and they can’t be one.
“So how does this coincide with the fact of -you need one Eid (even a Goy) to testify in the Goyishe courts? You might have a different Teretz,”
You haven’t given a Teretz yet, maybe you will say only a Jew can give Eidus in a secular court? I prefer my Pshat. It can’t be that you need a Goyishe Eid, but they are Posul to give Eidus. This isn’t called Eidus.
Remember, it says Eid Echod. I’m learning that it’s not going as the Din of an Eid. If you’re learning it is going as the Din of an Eid, then only a Jew’s testimony can be accepted in secular courts, not a Goys.
Laker – It’s not R’ Ruderman -it’s either a Rashi or a Medrash or something like that. Very few women nowadays are on that Madreiga, most would end up as the man -not so Frum!
CA – I don’t have a Yerushalmi at home. Why don’t you post it?
Wolf – “The bas kol said that Acher’s teshuva would not be acceptable.”
And he got a Kappara anyway.
Oomis – You’re wrong. He just found one of those of us who wasn’t a good, normal one. I don’t think going to a store is any bit safer. In that area a lot of stores are owned by goyim and who knows what they could do. I actually remember such a story when I was a kid.
I like the idea of Mr. Patz -a emergency phone for every kid old enough – who would walk by himself. People who work in stores can also be dangerous. L. Aron worked in a hardware store. Stop with your hindsight of it could have been prevented if only… Try to learn from it for the future. And the only idea so far that makes sense is Mr. Patzs’.
R’ Mayer got him into Olam Haboh. It says his Kever smoked for a year and then it stoppped and he went up. It doesn’t say whether he did Teshuva or not.
Charlie – “Sanhedrin 57a, and Rambam Hilchot Melachim 9:14 require an eyewitness to the crime.”
I took a long time to answer because I wanted to look at the Sugya(s).
I understand where you are coming from but let me try to explain my perspective. The Rambam says that a Goy can’t be an Eid acc. to the Torah. So how does this coincide with the fact of -you need one Eid (even a Goy) to testify in the Goyishe courts? You might have a different Teretz, but I’m learning that Eid doesn’t mean only an Eid but any evidence that the crime has occurred. Their testimony isn’t believed because they are an Eid, but because they are revealing to us what happened. Similarly if we know from evidence that this is what occurred, the court would have to find the perp guilty. So IMO, circumstantial evidence has to be accepted in the Goyishe courts.
The question would remain can Bais Din implement Kipa in such a case? From the Gemorrah & Rambam on Kipa, I’d venture to say -yes. Because the Gemorrah asks if there are no Eidim that he committed a crime -how do we know he did it? So the Gemorrah gives a few Tirutzim, which acc. to the Rambam all apply. The Meforshim say one Eid wouldn’t work because it’s just Loshon Horah. (Another possible Rayah that the Goy isn’t believed in Goyishe courts because of Eidus.) But from the Gemorrah’s Kasha it is Mashmah, if we have other ways of knowing like for example circumstantial evidence or perhaps something like DNA evidence we would be able to use these to put him in a Kipa. And it’s not a Kasha why circumstantial evidence wasn’t mentioned because you see each Amora who did mention something didn’t mean it to exclude something else (Rambam), so it’s quite possible that there are other ways of killing with “No Eidim” that a perp would be sentenced to the Kipa.
Why does it have to be either one? IMO, he’s both -crazy and evil!
Whether they can use the “insanity defense”, we will find out this week the results of his psych testing. As far as a Din “Shoiteh”, that is only when there was a Bais Din did they have to look into that aspect, it makes no difference to us here in our times.
Msseeker – “Why are you people trying to push THIS under the carpet?”
Where did you see in his post(s) that he is trying to sweep anything under? It seems that you are trying to sweep things under because when I mentioned there is something worse than Tzinus you screamed -“What can be more important than ???? ????? ????? What can be more tragic than ??? ??????? WHat can be better than ?? ?’ ????? ????? ???? ??????”.
So instead of admitting it’s wrong and worse, you screamed it’s a minority.
Then when he mentioned about cheeseburgers, you screamed Arvus.
Sounds like hypocrisy to me -only with cheeseburgers is there Arvus, but not with bad Aveiros that occur with kids!!!
adorable – “I would quicker marry a guy with a physical disability rather than a smoker.”
Would you prefer physically diasbled over an old, divorced guy or not? If yes, would you prefer a smoker over an old, divorced guy?