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There is no question that you will get better care if you call Hatzolah in LA. The fire department here could care less and I would agree that they take forever just to get out of their stations. Its the biggest problem LA Hatzolah faces, they want you to call them first but the firemen make such a big deal out of it if they find out you didn’t call 911 first. How do they know? They ask when they get to a frum house and then lecture the family. its only a question of time before hatzolah finally takes a stand against the fire department. If you talk to the la hatzolah guys, they’ll tell you that they’ve witnessed the fire department guys doing cpr wrong and other such malpractice but can’t say a word because of the politics. A couple more dead patients c’v ought to bring enough outrage.
Maybe I’m just naive, but if there is such a huge sakanah, why is anyone out walking in it? Sakana doesn’t happen retroactively! I don’t remember learning anywhere that I am suppose to take my life in my hands to go to shul on shabbos.
WHAT???? they don’t everything in Lakewood???? Well that settles it, I’ll stay here in LA!
I think the point i being missed by many. The issue isn’t so much the TV, movies, etc, it’s the secrecy involved in doing these things. If a child knows they can watch the TV that’s “hidden” in the parents room, there is an implication that “it’s OK as long as no one knows about it”. THAT IS WHAT LEADS TO THE DRUGS, ALCOHOL, THIEVERY, AND ALL THE OTHER BAD STUFF we’re seeing! Obviously, this is not the only thing, but a huge contributor.
I always found it interesting to see so many of the “modern” kids at Tomchei Shabbos packing food, at YACHAD helping kids with disabilities, and the ones volunteering at these events. The yeshivish kids can’t participate because it’s mixed. So they stay home, sneak the TV, movies, alcohol or drugs, because to do otherwise they’re condemned. It seems they can’t win.
I’m not sure about the rest of you, but when I was in 7th grade, visit the old lady next door or at the old age home was not my idea of fun and excitement. These kids need to be given something fun, stimulating and fun to do. TV is not the answer, but absent other things what do you want them to do? How many cakes can they bake???
myfriend – I was simply stating a fact I wasn’t making a judgement. With that said, I have yet to see a place “in Judaism” where it says a woman MAY NOT ride a bike, assuming of course she is tzanua.
WIY – yes with men around. We haven’t yet figured out a way to keep the beaches here separate:)
Since it is bike riding season almost all the time here in LA, many people go down to the beach and rent bikes for a ride on the bike path. I have known many yeshivish families that allow their older high school girls to go and rent bikes. It is actually a common activity a girls school (read Bais Yakov) or camp might do, even in the summer.
So how does this work practically? Do you utter your last words and then die? Do you utter your last words then get sick? So many people lay unconscious for days, weeks, months without saying a word before they die. So can we take this literally? PLEASE!
This is one of the biggest problems with home based businesses, the owners take things very personally. It is hard to start a business, this I think we all understand, but as another thread points out “business is business”, stop taking things so personally. If you have a good product the free market concepts will take hold and you will do fine. Mrs. Braun, please relax a bit…we’re all here to help one another and flushing out the legitimacy of a business is a natural process to getting started. Good luck to you!
I don’t think that was meant to be taken literally, as The Wolf points out otherwise mutes would live forever. It’s meant to show you the power of words and to be cautious how you use them.
We haven’t had knocks in years, but I always prepare a some candy. No point in doing otherwise.
It’s always nice to bring something. Here in LA, Tomchei Shabbos has a “service” whereby you make a donation to them in the your host’s honor and they send an acknowledgement e-mail to them.
I think this a wonderful way to say thanks to your host AND help people who are less fortunate. Like BP Totty said, who needs another candy dish???
I’ve found that these folks make their money by selling you something that tells you you’ll make lots of money. If they were so good at it a) they wouldn’t be sharing and b) they would have no need nor time to market it.
I did not read the article and I am not going to necessarily disagree with what others here are saying. However, I personally know of several of my classmates that went OTD, long before internet was a prevalent as it is today.
There is no hard a fast rule as to why kids go OTD, and internet MAY be a factor in some of them. Yet the internet can also be a factor in bringing people back.
I personally think the reason we’re seeing more and more of this is because of the quality of the education kids get in school and the non-availability of parents at home as we have to work much harder to make it financially. In regard to the schooling, the Yeshiva system and Rabbeim have not kept up with the times and generally have no idea what they’re really up against. because there is so much more information available to kids today, they are more savvy and can see through most of the old way of teaching.
yankdownunder, I am an avid soda drinker. I used to drink regular coke on a very regular basis, probably more than I should have. As soon as I switched to Diet Coke, I lost almost 5 pounds in the first couple of weeks and another 3 the next couple of weeks after that. This was accomplished simply by changing to diet sodas only.
I am not saying this is healthy or better than water, I’m simply speaking up as you asked if anyone had lost weight drinking diet sodas, and I have.
Ner Aryeh did not close, they effectively broke away form Valley Torah High School, another great choice for kids that don’t exactly fit the Yeshivish mold.
All the yeshivas, high schools and educational institutions in LA are wonderful. Each seeks to educate a different type of student and creates a wonderful environment for them. A couple fo the schools that were not mentioned are Yavneh, located in Hancock Park in what is an incredible campus lead by an equally impressive administration, and Ohr Eliyahu which just moved in to the Hancock Park area and has an incredible campus of their own. Both of these schools are Nursery through 8th Grade.
LA is great, where else can you imagine kids going to spend the day at the park in the middle of January?
In LA Pizza Mayven is the best! On La Brea between 1st and Beverly Blvd. Not a showy place but the food is consistent and the pizza the best. Try the fried onion slice, you’ll never go back.
As a resident of LA almost my whole life, here’s what I can tell you. Whatever hashkafa you follow, you’ll find a community here to fit into. LA has many of the same essential organizations that NY has, Bikur Cholim Tomchei Shabbos, Hatzolah, etc. As far as the billboards and things of that nature, sometimes people who live here don;t see them because it has become part of the landscape, but it is disgusting at best. It is not uncommon to have a HUGE billboard with unquestionable pritzus put up right in the heart of the yeshivish community. Understand, the people here are warm and nice, but the community exists WITHIN the larger LA community which includes the clubs, movie theaters, restaurant, and everything else to cater to the younger “hip” crowd that LA truly attracts.
This is a great town but you MUST go into this with your eyes WIDE OPEN.
Lastly, be very aware that the cost of living here is very high. If you choose to live in the Yeshivish community, i.e. Hancock Park or the areas that surround the original Kollel (Beverly/La Brea) you had better be prepared to spend $1,000,000 for a house, and that’s for a moderate size house (3BD 3Bath). If you go to the “other side of town” also know as Pico, you may be able to find something a little cheaper, but prices are around the same. The Valley has houses more moderately priced but starting in the $600,000 range, but that includes “commuting” to the City. Rents for a place for a family will start at about $2500 and will go up from there.
Tuitions will start at $18,000 per kid at any school you choose, but they will work with you if you need it.
Good luck on making this choice, if you do choose to come here, you will be welcomed with open arms.
True respect must be earned by young and old alike. The real issue is how we TREAT one another, not so much how we FEEL about them.
A few years ago my son had a run in with his rebbi, one where the rebbi was clearly wrong no matter how you looked at it. I don;t want to get into the details of it, but in the end I told my son that no matter what happened he must always SHOW respect to the rebbi even if he didn’t really feel it. If everyone would just take a moment and step back a bit and think about how they want to be spoken to, and/or treated, this issue would go away.
Also, if you are dealing with someone that you will not have to see often, how hard is ti to really bite your tongue??? If it’s someone you deal with all the time, are you really that weak that you CAN’T hold your tongue. If you CHOOSE to engage in a disrespectful manner, then you can fully expect the behavior to come back to you and the cycle never ends.
Saying please and thank you goes a long way to start the process, even if it’s the person’s job. This really isn’t that hard.
There is definitely too much TALK about tznius in schools, shuls, forums, etc. The other issue is that all too many times the ills of the world are blamed on women not wearing tznius clothing. In today’s world when you say that to a kid, a teenager, and even an adult woman (“the reason 9-11 happened was because woman are showing too much of their collar bones, knees or elbows”) it loses it’s effectiveness. Our girls and women today are much more sophisticated than that.
I personally teach my daughter the importance of valuing herself as a PERSON and not feeling the NEED to dress in a way that exposes her too much. Girls need to learn the importance of loving themselves first, then they’ll stop trying to get the outside attention with the way they dress.
If someone is dressed in a way that is unacceptable to you and they are in a public place, you have NO RIGHT to say anything. If they are in your home you can say something in a nice way. If you do that and they still ignore you, you have an issue of respect going on.
People today are afraid to set standards and deal with them directly. When that occurs and we are not passive aggressive about it, we’ll see results. Lastly, when other people who are pointing out other people’s faults are doing so while “misbehaving” in other areas, your words are null.
Tamir Goodman, a frum kids out of Baltimore made to college basketball but eventually left. He kept true to frumkeit all the way through and is a great role model for kids if they want to get involved in sports.
Tuition is a problem and I can’t speak to the prevalent attitude there on the East Coast but tuitions here in LA are very high. So if you have 4 kids in school and earn the same $175,000 that was referred to by SJSinNYC as the threshold in Teaneck, most regular folks in LA couldn’t afford to send their kids to Yeshiva.
Consider the following: schools here are asking from $18,000 each = $72,000 just for tuition. Rents run in the $3000/mo range for a decent size place for a family of six, another $36,000 for the year. If you choose to buy in any neighborhood in LA, the “yeshivish” part of town (Hancock Park/Fairfax), the houses run $1,000,000 (give or take $100,000), the more modern part (Pico) about the same, a mix of the two (the Valley) you can buy a smaller house starting in the $600,000 range, property taxes run 1.25%(?) of the purchase price or current market value. Add in food, clothing, moderate car payment, etc. take away the taxes, I’m not so sure it is so affordable at full tuition. Mind you, many of the schools are charging over $20,000, you can make the changes in the above numbers accordingly.
So if you are making $100,000 a year and have 4 kids, you’re probably asking for a scholarship and expecting one.
I do not have a daughter in the age group of going EY, but my son returned in June after his first post-high school year there. I know he didn’t do everything he was supposed to but in general he followed his program. It is true though that there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of oversight of the boys. When I was there to visit several months back, I couldn’t help but see how many of these “yeshiva boys” were out and about. I’m not saying anyone was doing anything they weren’t supposed to, rather that the sheer numbers of “bochrim” that I saw walking around in the middle of the day was astounding to me. It really made me think about why I sent my kids there to begin with.
Long story short – my son came home a man! My wife and I continue to marvel at the growth he experienced while he was there and the level of maturity he’s reached. So much so, he’s asked to return for more and we have agreed because we’ve seen the growth and trust that there is more to come. We believe that this growth came as a result of his being away from us, and in the end what better place to be than in EY.
The best segulah I heard of is dating…
I’m not a photographer, I love this picture!
I used to be a “no talking” guy and hated when others talked in shul. I then moved to a new shul and got sucked into the talking scene. Things changed dramatically when I had to start saying Kaddish. I could never have imagined how disruptive talking was while someone was trying to say Kaddish. I think if people really knew how their talking disturbed others, they wouldn’t do it. I’ve now re-reformed myself to NO TALKING and I’m hoping my non-participation in conversations will encourage others not to talk.
On Tisha B’Av night in shul I was sitting on the floor and listening to Eicha. There was a small group of individuals in shul that night that were clearly disabled who had come to hear Eicha as well. About half way through, they had to leave which they did relatively quietly. A couple of minutes later one of the fellows cam back in and asked a couple of people if they had seen his hat, he came in wearing it, but didn’t remember where he put it. Immediately, no less than 5 people got up to try to assist this gentleman find his hat, he was very worried. There was no “shushing” form anyone, just a very quick reaction to help a fellow Jew. I know this isn’t a grand scale thing, but it struck me that this is exactly what the previous three weeks was about, the introspection and how we treat one another. So at least at that quick moment, Tisha B’Av had it’s meaning play out.
The second thing that I want to share was also on Erev Tisha B’Av. As you may have read, we had a major tragedy hit our community on Monday when an unassuming member of our community was murdered by his tenant. If there is ever a time when you can see the Chesed of our people, unfortunately it is in times of tragedy. Anyway, behind the scenes of this harrowing experience there were members of Hatzolah that were at the home providing care to the family after hearing of their immense loss. Now you would think that after everyone was “stable”, they would have left, but no. After hearing that the niftar’s father was in another county an hour away, and wasn’t in the best of health, they went to go pick him up, this way if he had some “problem” on the way back to his now deceased son’s home, he could be tended to immediately. This all happened in the late hours of the day when most other people were sitting down to their meals. These guys each went into the fast with just a few mouthfuls prior, because they were caring for another person who simply needed them. The following day, some of these same guys were out at the levaya, in the hot sun, standing by just in case.
If someone can show me another community that can tell the same stories, I would be shocked!
In LA the Yeshivish school (Toras Emes) is about $18,000 per student with some discounts for multiple students. The more “modern” type day schools are over $20,000 (Yavneh, Hillel, Maimonides).
The high schools are about the same with the largest “modern” high school topping out at $25,000+.
Scholarships are available to families in need and it seems no one is turned away for REAL financial need, but they do want to know what you spend your money on.
It’s so amazing to me how we place so much emphasis on what the girls should or shouldn’t be doing all the time. If they have been to Bais Yakov’s etc. then they have been taught like all the “bochrim” what is correct and what isn’t. A lot of the hashkafah also needs to come form the home. With that said, if there areas that have too many girls “hanging around”, go a different way. You can’t really expect the girls to only be indoors all the time, do you?
yb613 – why don’t you clarify the “issue or problem” so we can get a better “grasp” on it and comment intelligently.
Whether you want Mashiach or not is truly something you have to deal with for yourself. Maybe these 3 weeks are meant as a time for introspection. A time for us to actively think about how we relate to one another and to Hashem and what he really wants from us.
I’m an FFB who married a girl whose family (not frum) chose to send her to only frum schools. This was all fine and dandy until they realized that our “lifestyle” didn’t exactly mesh with theirs, ie, real kashrus not just kosher style, shabbos the whole day not just until the evening but it especially came out when we had our kids and sent them to schools “more frum” than they would have chosen. We’ve all come to a place where it’s now quite comfortable, each respecting the others place and not imposing on one another.
But I think the issues that people face in this area are more indicative of the people involved and not the issue. If the religious thing wasn’t the issue, it would be something else. It’s sometimes hard for parents to watch their children make decisions they don’t necessarily agree with, be it religious, college vs. yeshiva, what career they choose or not, where they live, and in some families how they dress their kids. When looking for your life partner, look for someone that has a “yichus” of good people, regardless of their religious affiliation. A good person is a good person, I don’t think there’s any correlation to whether you’re a BT or FFB. Character counts!
Maybe the shnaps and wine, it’s called a hangover! 🙂
All these stories are further to the point I made earlier. Rabbeim and Moros should have real training before they are given charge of a class full of children, no matter the age. We all talk about our kids being precious and the next generation, etc. how can we fail them by not properly training those we entrust to mold and teach them? For those of us that have had negative experiences, we KNOW how this affects us, be it at Yomim Noraim or in our everyday religious life.
As soon as we take the teaching position as seriously as it is and demand accountability, we will see some changes to the positive and a bright future for our children.
A very similar thing happened to me way back when hitting was still acceptable in the yeshiva system. To make the story short, I was accused of something I did not do and the rebbe felt I needed “petch”. Well I got it good, several of them, both the palm of his hand as well as the back of his hand while I was trying to deflect the hitting, which of course made him more angry.
The point is that he was obviously not fit to be teaching nor had he received any sort of training. ALL our mechanchim should go through some sort of mandatory teacher training not just be someone that went to Kollel. By training I don’t mean just a seminar they may attend at the beginning of the school year, I mean real course work. There’s no reason a kollel can’t offer something like that, it is all for the cause of limud hatorah and can be conducted in classes with only men or women. It would also offer a chance for the Rosh Kollel to evaluate the mechanech prior to putting them in front of young impressionable minds.
“What should I tell my hosts and how can I be part of the mitzvah of hamotzi?”
If there is some sort of bread that you CAN eat, then ask if they mind if you bring it along (just make sure it’s an acceptable hechsher for that family). If you cannot have cannot have any hamotzi, then just let them know. Most hosts are very understanding if other people’s situations and are quite willing to accommodate as much as they can.
I’m not from the NY area but when we visited a few summers back we took a drive to Washington DC. If I recall it’s not too far from baltimore where there is a large frum community. The attractions in DC are mostly museums, but they are all FREE, so your costs would be limited to hotel stay, gas and food. I’m sure on the way there or back there a few more attractions you can experience.
Trying my best: The word “need” is somewhat debateable. When a school can’t make its payroll they NEED to do something more fiscally responsible. While I understand the reasons for teachin limudei kodesh in the morning, it is not the absolute. I was brought up that way, but now my kids are in a school where some of the grades are different. They start their day davening and have a quick shiur right after. They then go to math, etc. at around 1:30 or so the rebbe or morah comes in and they do limudei kodesh after they have taught their other limudei kodesh classes inthe morning. I frankly don’t see any difference in what my kids are learning. We still have very lively divrei torah on shabbos and beleive it or not on the way home from school, because they just got out of chumash or navi. It CAN work!
speaktruth: The statement about energy is not a reasonable one. I too run out of energy at the end of my day, right about 5 1/2 to 6 hours into my busy day. Maybe I can leave work then too? Shall I ask my boss for 2 months off so I can refresh? Maybe I should tell him that I had to make a couple of calls last night or I prepared for today so I should have a shorter day. The idea that teachers/rabbeim are the only ones that work at night to “prepare” is ridiculous. I have gotten so tired of hearing how hard it is on them, does anyone else who has a job not work hard to do what is EXPECTED of their jobs? If they’re having such a hard time, they should find another job, maybe for the government, they seem to have it easy.
In regard to how many teachers it takes to teach a class. Right now it seems we hire one rebbe and one teacher for each grade. The rebber leaves at 2 the english teacher then comes in. Why not have the english teacher come in the morning, teach a class of a different grade, then move to the next class in the afternoon, the same could go for the rebbe. Now you have 2 teachers for 2 grades allowing for a reduction of 2 teachers salary of which you can take a portion of to increase the rebbe’s and teacher’s pay.
tomim tihye: that is not exactly what I’m saying. What I propose is that every yeshiva, school and educational institution do the best they can to run their programs with a responsible business model. If Rabbeim and teachers are earning a full days pay, they should put in a full days work. Someone who enters the teaching profession understands (or should understand) that this is not an industry that will earn you bug bucks. In fact if you are a teacher you can expect to have some financial struggle. (These are not my rules, these are the rules within our society, both religious and secular.)
A person that enters chinuch understands that their work does not end when they leave, they have their busy times as much as an accountant in March and April, but what they gain in return is not materialistic (and it doesn’t hurt that they have the whole summer off).
What I’m suggesting is that each teacher spend an entire day teaching, thereby allowing the school to cut back some of the other staff they hire part time. Its cheaper to hire fewer full time staff than to hire many part time staff to fill the same functions.
It seems to me that the burden is great but that the schools aren’t doing enough to curb their costs. Why don’t they hire only full time staff? Meaning, if there is a Yeshiva where the Rebbe teaches only in the morning, why not give hime some duties inthe afternoon thereby eliminating some of the staff needed at that time. The same could go for the afternoon teachers, make their positions full time and give them duties in the morning. I’m not suggesting they do maintenance work, rather some sort of administrative duties.
They already get free tuition, which someone mentioned if was taken away the tuition would go higher, why not make them stay a full work day, I don’t know how about 8 hours? This concept may go a long way to teaching our young people the importance of working rather than seeing the Rebbe or Morah leave at 2:00. The responsibility here is on the institution itself both for practical reasons as well as the “keeper” of donated monies.
I’d like throw my two cents into this as someone who has kids in school in LA. I have 3 kids and if I were to pay full tuition my obligation would be $61,000 PLUS dinner fees, building fees, and every other little fee they come up with, and that would be after the $500 – $750 “registration fee” PER CHILD. To add a little insult to injury, to be considered for scholarship, we must pay an additional fee of $25 – $30 (little I know, but a fee to ask for help???) How is a family like ours supposed to pay a tuition like that when earning $130,000/yr. with both parents working full time?
It always felt weird to me that many of the Rabbeim in the school own their own homes, pay no tuition, work 3/4 of the day and we’re working hard full time and renting, I won’t even go into the issue of putting money away. Cars are a necessity in LA so no savings there, food costs are ridiculous so obviously big vacations are out of the question, as well as a cleaning lady.
This tuition situation is a huge problem for the Jewish community. We can’t put our kids in public school and home schooling doesn’t work for the families where both parents work. So making choices and begging for a scholarship are the only way to go. How many times do I have to walk into a tuition committee for them to say “So are things better this year?” I don’t think they get it, things aren’t better or worse, they are the same, I earn the same money, I live in the same place, my kids are a year older and cost me more. How does that justify me paying them more?
The system will crumble at some point. It is built on a poor foundation, it can’t continue this way.