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yiddishemame- well said- this is a major reason why moshiach doesnt come- I feel..
Its a major problem..
and about monroe..if you are not dressed zniusdik, ye maybe they will look at you, but if you dont have the same style as them who cares. they will not say you are a shiksa..
zd- I never said a word about the showers. my son does as he pleases when he pleases cuz it’s agreeable to him.. It’s just that it bothers me that his hashkafos are on the way down..
I cant/dont even mention anything he is doing halachacly wrong.
I just look and daven that someday he will see the light and beauty of yiddishkeit.
as wow explained anything that is not appealing or comfortable to do is ‘extra’ to yiddishkeit.
9 days, as we all know, is mourning the beis hamikdash and someone that grew up in a frum home is aware of this. what and why do I have to do to make this appealing??
and about the showers, I am aware there are heteirim. but daily?
He is not a construction worker.. doesnt meet with people on a daily basis.. just his bed and the phone.
interjection- my home is not such a restrictive home.
judaism is not only about restriction but it is only about comfort?
I agree with choppy!
dog?
funny.. my son is talkng about gettng dog as well..OMG
You allowed it?
I can’t, my place is too small.. He settled for a cat, I told him he will have to take care 100%.. like vets- clean-up lettng it out.. whatever (never had a pet..)
smartphone- internet is a part of his life a long time already..
little by little he is giving up ALL past hashkafos.. I asked him why he stopped doing certain things. He simply answered me, anything to do with chassidus he is not intersted.. its all shtussim and chumros. so, included in the ‘shtussim’ is no showers in 9 days.. no laundry in 9 days. Like it dont exist…I thought he was Jewish.. –so far I don’t know about trip plans, but then again there’s still a whole week to go..
Hashem yishmor!
Happy28- are u still around?
still availabl?
How can I get more details as to what u are about..
…and not be so picky about leftovers
welome hmom- unfortunately/fortunately you are not alone.
here to help- I wanted to ask the same question. What if there is only one parent that is trying to straighten things out- the other is well.. just angry..
speaker- looks like the email address was not posted..
I tried to read entire thread. but did not. so if I am repeating what one has said please forgive me.
My sons wore shorts till aboout age 7..
the melamdim then requested that they do not wear shorts because they might touch their legs during learning causing them to become ‘tumah’ and constantly request to leave the room to wash their hands.
as far as I know men/boys may walk around in their underwear. there is no issur of znius!
There are definitely other reasons that they do not dress in this way, ZNIUS is not one of them.
put money in the pushka when they go.
ask if someone from the yeshiva can call your son and invite him to check the place out
wow- Even if you had these discussions write taletter.
He may not react and you might even think he never read it but if you write it with love tears it will touch him.
you won’t have the answering back on a letter as well as going off on a tangent..
he might re-read it in the future, and perhaps at that time he will be more acceptng and maybe he will start making subtle changes.
If possible the ‘friends’ should keep calling and inviting him for their get togethers or trips or what have you, even if he turns down the invitation. but not too often or they might be pushing it too far.
You understand..
maybe you can call this Avi Fishoff on the phone.
or maybe he can suggest someone in Israel,
I hope to be calling him- Thanx, Speaker..
did you ever try this Weingort fellow I suggested a few months ago?
maybe now, that, unfortunately he is more downhill this yeshiva might work for him.. just a thought..
wow- I just thought of this..
did you ever write a letter to your son.
no blame- just explaining how bad you feel that he is so miserable.
How it hurts you that he is not going in line with the Torah or how he was brought up. You are sorry if he feels you wronged him and he will always be your son, and you always love him and will always try to help him..
My son just told me about some plan he has to take some kind of long trip during the 9 days.
I try to explain to him that one does not take long trips, go swimming etc.. bec of ‘sakana’.
well, he doesn’t think driving 10 hrs and meeting a ‘goy-idol’ some joe, that one of his friends introduced him to- eppes a tv ‘shpeeler’
is a sakana or a vacation..
I said what I had to. the rest I talk to Hashem that these plans should fail!!
All of you that commented about the dress code- like wow mentioned.
the way a person dresses on the outside reflects what he is on the inside. especially if you were brought up one way and then change the dress code.
YES! I would be very happy if my son would learn a few hours a day. daven before chatzos without eating before- no he is not weak!-
and perhaps learn some dinnim of what one may and may not do at any given time..
the dress does not bother me.. in his case its what it reflects that breaks my heart.
If it works?
why not?
pcoz- exactly what kind of reward would you think suitable?
wow- I like the dorm idea too.. but he just might leave to soon cuz of the ‘too much learning’.
If your son ‘enjoys’ the other yeshiva and he is getting what he needs in support he will be motivated to get up in the morning and go. You did not mention the hours of the lower pressure yeshiva.. Do they keep them till late enough at night- so they cannot be on the street for too long..if he has to be in yeshiva at a certain time and he enjoys it, he will be in bed semi on time so that he can get up and be where he got to be..
just promise some money in the pushka and daven that he comes up with a decision.
my son BH is still wearing black and white although its in the form of t-shirts and polo shirts (which no one wears in my family) and black denim pants.. You have to see the way some of his friends are dressed-coming from chassidish families as well- I just daven it doesnt get worse than this.. he BH still has some friends that kept the ‘lvush’ of the past, so I am hoping he will change back- I am not sure how soon that may be because he keeps mocking that code of dress and the comments that go with it- funny thing he is always mocking a melamed or a menahel from the past- so without realizing what he is doing he is releasing the origin of the pain..
wow-I guess it depends which discussion they’ve joined.
truthfully I dont comment at every discussion.
more_2- your right. I figured that was the reason. truthfully I dont spend to much time at my computer. IDO have more important thngs to do all day.
my son is wearing a necklace with a magen david.. and when he remembers he kisses it..
I cry and daven.. and talk to Hashem cuz no one else could help me.
After meeting all those other moms you see its not you that’s at fault. this is a mageifa of this dor!
ignore him. concentrate on your other children.
my niece is starting too. I believe she is sixteen or 17.
never home. more than one botton open and other simanim.. my sister is devastated but she is ignoring it bec these kids are doing it to bother you, and they are waiting for a comment so they can have a confrontation and an argument.
txtng is gud 4 me wen I cannot spik and must get a msg to someone.
or if Im in midl of a meetng or lecture where ringng or spkng wud b quite disturbng.
I also like to txt when, what I hav to say is not an emrgncy and cud b ansrd at ones leasur.
and I nevr ansr anyone who asks ‘who is this?’
if de no. is not familiar i do not ansr..
Thanx wow.
I kept on checking to see if someone ever noticed me!
WOW- all kids that go off the derech have someone that they are blaming..
funny thing is ALL my kids went thru the same system had the same menahalim.. etc..
why is one able to handle it and others not?
Answer is (as I explain to my husband- and not news..)
all kids are made up differently and handle situationns differently, others are more sensitive and all react differently..
I think my son started easing up and listening to me at about age 19.
He was also stubborn and told us in more ways than one ‘either accept me the way I am or to bad’
also full of blame. but I kept suggesting.. and all he would say is ‘we’ll see’
and one day I saw BH!
like I said, He is not on the same level as the rest of the family but at least he is not being difficult.
and yes, I keep meeting more and more mothers who are going thru the same thing..It’s really sad.
what is going on?
i love coffe- It sounds like the shadchan is being immature and coward.. she doesnt know how to say ‘no’ to the other party.
there is absolutely no reason why you may not say no!
she does not not know how to deal with it so she is ‘throwng the ball into your court’.
be firm and if she does not call you again someone else will!
Good luck.
Kol hakavod!
Its about time more people startd thinking out of the box..
or perhaps what will everyone say!?
a lot of MAZELand BRACHA!
just carry on normally, as if no one was OTD
Because it’s SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!
Because all other countries have socialized medicine the doctors hands are tied as to what they can and cannot do.. and very often people from these countries with serious conditions and illnesses come to NY/America to get proper medical care.
Already there are medications that were taken off insurance coverage!
negunei skulen- pirim tish
wow- No, my husband is still angry at me cuz he says I am ‘sugarcoating’ the problem and my son does not think he is doing anything wrong cuz I am accepting him the way he is..
but my husband is mellowing down lately bec my son is home more now and he is speakng with him. and we are currently having issues with a younger son so my husband is begining to realize perhaps why the older one is the way he is..its the same menahel again. and my husband is tryng to avoid to have to go thru the same thing again with this one, so he is talkng to him more.
so I can say there is slightly more understanding between the two.
My husband still gets angry at times but we are ignoring and carrying on..
I was talking to a friend and she told me about an article she read, also about a woman who was having issues in the family.
I cant remember the rav, I believe it was R’ Chaim K. that told her when a woman takes upon herself a chumra in znius the ‘krenk’ gets better.
After some thought and watching how ppl speak loudly on their cellphones this woman took upon herself not to speak on the fone on the street. I tried it too. It is NOT easy. I had to keep reminding myself what I took upon myself and to adhere to it.
it does not have to be about the phone.. but I wear longer skirts.. thicker sox.. machmir on my neckline.. I couldnt think of anything else. I am not upto covering my sheitel just yet..
I got to stick by what I take upon myself.. and not be upset with myself. Hopefully something will work with the situation in my home.
this child is not my only issue..
HASHEM YA’AZOR!
I agree with mack!
Bit frustrating till then.
You never know what they are going to try till then.
I had a few ppl call my son. he never returned calls.
but I was a bit annoyed bec the kiruv guys should have been a little more persistant nd not wait for kavod.then of course, my son confronted me.. I knew nothin!
at this point my son knows too much for his age and even brings up in conversation, its a bit embarrassing, but what could I do?- I would be glad if that would be the only thing..I thank the eibishter he is not worse, or like his friends that have to sleep by me or smoking who knows what..
I do have a lot to ask for but a lot to be thankful for and from what it sounds like, wow, youd be happy with this type as well.
my husband is angry with me because I am too accepting. But I feel this is the only thing that keeps him coming home and perhaps return to his roots in which he was raised.
I came into an office with my 4yo daughter.
there was a fish tank with exotic fish..
and a machine that was causing a lot of noise.
pointing at the machin she asks me ‘whats that?’
to which I answered ‘a filter’
so she asked me back ‘dais iz gefilte fish?’
left hand- ring finger- the one near the pinky.
even if I wear on the right, cuz its more comfortable..
I was going to say the same as ‘Imaof3’.
the only thing I would suggest is that the ‘kiruv person’ should call your son on his own.. and you know nothing about it. If he asks you if you gave the no. just deny it.. and make sure tho tell this person that you did ‘not’ give the no.
bec anything coming from you is ‘possul’. I am sure you know what I mean.
it really should. Canarsie is part of Brooklyn..
I also thought it was some kind of ‘ice cream special’
Too bad..
interjection- thank you. I do agree with you and started doing some h.w.. I have not told him anything yet bec I don know what to say yet. I hope to become somwhat more knowledgeable and then speak with him.
I just hope he doesnt do anything ‘dumb’ till then. Thanx
Looks like the heat is gettng to you all.
wow- A gitte voch to you and to everyone else here…
what did your son do at home all shabbos? was there yelling all shobbos long?
Is this the first time one of his maggidei shiur reached out to him?
I hope this is one that could be mashpia on him.
My son had a kitta vov melamed that he is still on good terms with, my son calls him every so often.. dont know why, but he is a good person to be in touch with..
my son is also in the alcohol mishigaas he admits that it makes him feel ‘better’ he doesnt ‘have’ all those issues for the hour or so.
He is not mammesh drunk but rather on a high. and not thinking straight.
looks like stopped the alcohol for a now.. who knows how long it will last..
He started asking questions about marijuana.. I am nor what to think.. he says he did not smoke it but his friends do and..
he is just ‘curious’..I’m NERVOUS. I told him it would really upset me if he started smokng. who knows if he will listen to me. he usually does not- unless he wants to- lol.
oy! vus vett zein?
Pirate- a big brother idea is a good one, if he will let himself.
mom- I know it’s shabbos by u now and I wish you all the best.
was he home for shabos at all?
If you dont let him sleep will he stay home in the evening?
or will he find a friend with a bed..I had kids comng to me cuz they had to leave the house and then they finished sleeping by me (I mean my son).
I had a problem of evening occupation with this son of mine..If they are not learnrs or readers what is there to do?
they get bored and act up.. or leave the house or argue..
My son now owns a car and is forever with friends and BH does not listen to secular music but the cd is always on..
Keep on davening..
Brainfreeze- Do you own one of them teenagers?
I do..This is what they do! and so does the whole group of friends.
In general my teenagers were night ppl.. and would have rather slept late in the morning.
the ones that had ‘chishik’. got up even if they were tired bec. they had the responsibility. And the others who were somewhat depressd or had issues in Yeshiva had no will to go so they slept.
this is what they do.
hudi- lithium oratate as opposed to the calcitate does not have these side affects and is definitely more desirable.. do some research. I have
WOW- let him sleep. at least those hours that he is home, you know where he is.. If he would be awake he would not stay home.
when he gets up I just ask once if he davend and put on t’fillin.
I usually dont get an answer- but later I ‘catch’ him with t’fillin on.. never mind a shul…
by the way it looks like the men are supposed to be the angry ones and the moms try to deal with the kid rationally.. I know what u r going thru.
He will return.. maybe not to the exact religious level that your family is at but definitely above where he is now.
wow- I am really saddened that he left.
Do you know where he is sleeping.
(I have a 17 yr old sleeping by me- cuz he cannot be home…)
Is he by a normal family?
or ‘just with friends’
Dont loose sleep- cuz you need the strength
to withstand all this, as well as take care of the rest of the family.
But dont be surprized when he shows up back home… You just might find him back in his bed..
maybe not so soon.. but soon enough..
Hazlacha Rabba. I hope you can get help.. I did not get much..
lol…and who, exactly, would want 8 wives…?
how OFTEN? sir
I know I will get ‘bashed’ for this..
but there are natural alternitives to medication.
vitamins that will have the same effect as meds without the side affects (and stigma)..
wow– google lithium oratate and see what is said. check out the vdieo clip of ‘john gray’.
btw my son is currently seeng a neurocognitive doctor, who gets to the source of the problem and corrects with diet, vitamins, or minerals etc.. He has brain fluids that have to be leveld.. wrong msgs are being sent to the brain etc..
its quite amazing.. thru kinesiology a lot can be corrected as well.
I know quite a few.
I have a daughter a few months older than my grandaughter..
WOW- keep us posted on the progress..
as he matures he will come back to talk to you.
He will realize that the ‘friends’ are not true friends after all.
Have a beautiful shabbos.
Didnt check it out.. but will do so cuz you are now making me curious..
If wow not recommending, doesn’t sound like I will either..
I will check it out as well.. Thank you sam2
There is even less perfection in the secular world.
I live near a public school and I watch parents fetch their children daily.. the way the parents speak and act to the children, I would not expect otherwise.
But the grass is always greener on the other side..
the kids think all the permissiveness is better and they try going there, till life on the other side teaches them, and they start coming back, let’s hope, but happy they are not!
Al pi darko?! I keep asking the same ques. the melamdim are getting confused as to whos derech they are supposed to be teaching.
T’filos and more t’filos that is our only answer!
Only one bashefer can put seichel into the childrens head the melamdim and the ry! bec nobody hears when I speak I’m just a mother sticking up for her kid– who then if not the mother!
as you can see I am very angered!!
HASHEM SHOUL HELP US ALL- AMEN
I had the same thing.. my daughter blames me as well for being chassidish. my son is tryng to convince us to change all the boys yeshivas.. but we are chassidish..
I accept my son the way he is.. I would call it parve.
but he has to understand I am not changing the entire ‘mehus’ of my family because he said so.
I am blaming some melamdim and RY as well. and I definitely agree they wronged him. They say its the kid because they treat everyone equally and not all turned out this way..
They did not want to understand that each kid is created differently.
When I explained what this child was about and perhaps a way to ‘treat’ him so he may succeed, the answer was this is not our policy and all fell on deaf ears!
I warned my husband. At a certain age these kids grow wings and they fly.. How right I was!
WOW-A gitte voch.. A besser voch!
I can certainly empathize with u. even though BARUCH HASHEM my son is a better now..
I dont know what you told your son..
I would have said somthing to the effect that he makes me cry.. and not well but really sad.
please call Rabbi Weingort from shalom Rav in Zfas and see if your son wont benefit… 050 200 9820.
He will be out of your sight and might come home a better person.
Your son is definitely troubled about something maybe ask him calmly what is troubling him and apologize if you have to about the confrontation or argument you had a night or two ago..
Its just you are so hurt..
Kids dont like when their moms cry..
tell him you are on his side and youwant to help him..
and he will answer you- if you want to help me just leave me alone!
and you will tell him as long as you are his mother you cannot leave him alone and you care about him and where he is going..
and leave it at that.
HATZLACHA RABBA!
Another thing that I do, so I dont seem like a threat but rather a friend in a certain sense- which I am with all my children- and they still respect me..
when he starts telling me things that are going on I speak his language.. not nivul peh.. and I seem interested in what he is telling me.
If I meet him with his friends I talk to them as well.. and act along with them.
This way I get information and keep it in ‘storage’.
even when I hear him speakng with friends on the phone I would comment something ‘corny’ or funny..
Like this he finds the friend in me and when I ask him a ‘favor’
like maybe he should daven or something like that he does not think to himself that I only talk to him to tell him what to do..