Forum Replies Created
Particularly appropriate for this year 😔 😢
(.הכל בידי שמים חוץ מצינים ופחים (כתובות ל
Being negligent in cases of obvious physical danger can result in Hashem changing His plans.
A great op-Ed from Hamodia:
El Al’s offer of a free round-trip ticket to Europe for every passenger on board the ill-fated Flight 002 from New York to Israel last week shows that the airline doesn’t get it.
At issue was El Al’s failure to respect Shabbos and its abysmal treatment of chareidi travelers, who make up a significant portion of its air traffic, especially on the Tel Aviv-New York line.
The pilot and the flight crew disrespected both Shabbos and the intelligence of its chareidi passengers when they said they were heading back to the terminal to allow those who feared not reaching Israel by Shabbos to disembark, and then proceeded to the runway to take off (without ensuring that those passengers were safely buckled up).
Compare the behavior of El Al in this regard to that of United Airlines. The latter’s Flight UA 84, which was also bound for Israel on that snowy Thursday night, agreed to let its shomer Shabbos passengers off and arranged for their suitcases to be taken off the plane and delivered to them.
If United Airlines can show respect for Jewish passengers who are concerned about, chalilah, desecrating Shabbos, is it too much to expect the same from a Jewish-owned airline in Israel?
Instead of accepting responsibility for falsely accusing chareidi passengers of “attacking crew members” and announcing that it would call the police on them, El Al management made do with a pareve “apology,” stating that the airline “sees it necessary to clarify again, as stated in a press release on Nov. 19, that it did not blame the religious, secular, or chareidi public in the events reported.”
Judaism teaches that teshuvah starts with viduy, acknowledging wrongdoing, and that is glaringly absent here.
Even more infuriating is the airline’s statement hailing the behavior of its flight crew. “The El Al management backs and appreciates the air and ground crew members who operated on this flight in an admirable manner.”
Which part was admirable? The failure to leave enough time to get from their Manhattan hotel to the airport in snowy weather?
The failure of pilots and flight attendants to speak truthfully and respectfully to passengers?
Or maybe it was the refusal of flight attendants to serve chareidi passengers, as a childish form of “revenge” for insisting on straight answers about the plane’s ability to arrive in Israel in time for Shabbos?
Or the failure to reserve enough rooms for shomer Shabbos passengers who would be stuck in Athens for Shabbos?
Moreover, the “apology” took more than a week to issue, as if there were ever any doubt as to whether it was called for. It’s clear from the wording and timing of the El Al statement that it was looking to put out fires, not assuage hurt feelings.
El Al is no stranger to Shabbos. It has signed two different agreements with the Committee for the Sanctity of Shabbos, the body that is chaired by Rabbi Yitzchak Goldknopf, and carries out the instructions of Gedolei Yisrael in all matters pertaining to Shabbos observance in the public domain.
The last agreement, signed in 2007, says that El Al will not fly its planes on Shabbos. And yet Flight 002, after dropping off its passengers in Athens, proceeded to fly to Israel on Shabbos.
The religious traveling public has every right to assume that an airline like El Al will show sensitivity to its needs, foremost among them Shabbos. If mistakes were made and the flight crew arrived late, there should have been an honest, respectful exchange between the flight crew and the passengers. People should have been given the option of getting off the plane and spending Shabbos in New York. They should have been told up front that there was no way the plane would make it on time to Tel Aviv and that arrangements were being made for them in Athens.
The flight crew should have gone from passenger to passenger to see who needed a room for Shabbos in Athens, and should have assured passengers that Shabbos meals would be provided and that Chabad would be on hand to ensure a proper Shabbos experience.
Instead, the flight crew and the pilots were condescending in their treatment of both Shabbos and their chareidi clientele.
At this point, El Al needs to reestablish trust with the chareidi public. It must show that it cares enough to never put people in a position that they have to worry about violating something that is so precious to them.
The way to go about that is first, to issue a genuine apology, accepting full responsibility for its behavior, and second, to accept the request of the Committee for the Sanctity of Shabbos to move up the times of planes leaving New York on Thursday evening, making a repeat of the Flight 002 debacle less likely.
The chareidi public wants to continue flying El Al. But only if El Al shows that it wants them as passengers.
So am I a navi, or did R’ Sorotzkin read my thread here on the CR? 😉
Two wrongs don’t make a right. While I’m no fan of flying so close to Shabbos, in no way does that justify ElAl repeatedly lying to their passengers, then turning around and lying about their passengers.October 18, 2017 2:34 pm at 2:34 pm in reply to: Vegas Massacre: 59 Good Reasons to Outlaw Automatic Weapons #1385426October 18, 2017 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm in reply to: Are all these protests in Jerusalem really a kiddush hashem? #1385395
According to Rabbi Menachem Carmel, who spoke to Kol Berama Radio on Wednesday morning, “For as long as they continue to arrest our boys and harm our way of life, for all we wish to do is to sit and learn, then we will do whatever we can to have them released. We will get out and express out outrage, as is permitted in a democratic country”.
Anyone raising a hand to an officer or throwing something, will not receive legal assistance if required. This is clear to all as the rabbonim do not sanction violence, but are calling for passive resistance including the closing of roads.
So anybody “raising a hand or throwing anything” isn’t even following the directives of the Peleg political echelons who supposedly speak in the name of R’ Shmuel.
If one views this as a religious practice, it does seem kinda odd. But if one regards it just a form of entertainment, if it really any more odd or pointless than the common practice of throwing around a small leather object for entertainment?October 17, 2017 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm in reply to: Are all these protests in Jerusalem really a kiddush hashem? #1384707
It’s hard for me to imagine a more counter-productive way of making your point than inconveniencing literally an entire country just to get attention. How can this possibly make people more sympathetic to the argument that the Torah protects us more than the IDF?
Joseph, yes, one of th Gedolim does indeed support this movement. But far more of the Gedolim, led by R’ Shteinman and R’ Chaim, and including R’ Nissin Karelitz, R’ Edelstein, R’ Shmuel’s older brother R’ Azreil Aurebauch, R’ Yitzchok Scheiner, and many more, have all empatheticly said *not* to join these protests.
Never thought this would happen! From Arutz Sheva:
Zionist Union chief Avi Gabbay refused to retract his recent statements opposing the eviction of Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria in a potential future peace deal with the Palestinian Authority, despite blowback he received from his Labor faction. Gabbay argued instead that Israel would need to find “creative solutions” about what to do with Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria in a future peace deal.
Speaking with Reshet Bet, Gabbay said that “I believe that the Land of Israel belongs to the Jews. God promised Abraham the entire Land of Israel, but I also believe that since there are 4.5 million Arabs here, we have to compromise in order to create a situation in which we live in our country with a Jewish majority”.October 8, 2017 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm in reply to: Vegas Massacre: 59 Good Reasons to Outlaw Automatic Weapons #1379194
Wow, Joseph is anti-guns? Did not see that coming.
You’be said before that you believe the second amendment was intended to be a check on an authoritarian government. How far do you think that should go? As others have pointed out, to provide a realistic counter-force to the US army would require legalizing things like tanks, anti-aircraft missiles, cruise missiles, fighter jets, and possibly nuclear weapons…
How do frum kids know about guns?
Internet & IsraelOctober 4, 2017 12:45 am at 12:45 am in reply to: Vegas Massacre: 59 Good Reasons to Outlaw Automatic Weapons #1378404
Does anybody really believe that a semi-automatic, or that apparently legal gizmo that turns a semi-automatic into a full-fledged automatic, is really necessary for hunting or self-defense? How about the 47 guns that this guy apparently owned? Any legitimate use for this stuff?
Can’t we admit that we as a society have gotten carried away with this?
The sad truth is that there was no good way to stop this attack.
Outlawing guns wouldn’t have helped because… ? (Not suggesting we should outlaw all guns, which is anyways probably impossible without a constitutional amendment, just trying to understand your point.)
Those turning this into a gun issue are just standing on the graves of the victims to try and push their agenda down other Americans’ throats.
This is by far the most prevalent reaction to suggesting more gun control in response to a gun-caused tragedy: “Stop politicizing the tragedy, just mourn it”. And I really just don’t get it. I mean, is suggesting that we fight terrorist in response to terrorism also politicizing terrorism? Should we just mourn and do nothing? Is suggesting a possible way to discourage drunk-driving in response to a drunk-driving tragedy politicizing the tragedy?
Isn’t the logical reaction to a tragedy to both mourn the tragedy, and try to make sure this type of thing doesn’t happen again?
If guns were nearly as regulated as cars I’d be fine with that.
That would be a good start.
Just saying, I don’t think R’ Tzvi Kaplan has a very bright view of R’ Ovadia Yosef and his shittos. So if you’re a real R’ Ovadianik, oing to a Brisker yeshiva might be a bit of a culture clash.
Looks like the police go caught on video going one step too far even for the Israeli politicians, and now due to public outcry some small measure of justice is being served. From (the hardly anti-Zionist) Arutz Sheva:
Police officer indicted for brutality against haredi man
Policewoman hit haredi man three times in the head, grabbed his head and knocked him to the ground.
Prosecutors filed an indictment against a policewoman who is accused of assaulting a haredi protestor in January. The move comes after police received condemnations from across the political spectrum for the alleged brutality against haredi protestors on Sunday.
The policewoman is accused of using excessive force against a haredi demonstrator at Jerusalem’s Kikar HaShabbat, a central square in the haredi Meah Shearim neighborhood. The policewoman had been dispatched to the scene following reports of burning tires and garbage.
After seeing a haredi demonstrator shouting at another policewoman, she hit him three times in the head, grabbed his head and knocked him to the ground. After the incident, the policewoman recorded a false action report in order to conceal the attack, telling supervisors the protester attacked her and that she had only been defending herself.
The Police Investigative Unit (Mahash) also decided to try her commanding officer for using unlawful force.
The indictment comes after videos came to light documenting police officers using excessive force while breaking up a haredi anti-draft demonstration on Sunday. Clips showed police punching and kicking haredi demonstrators and throwing protestors to the ground unprovoked. One clip showed a police commander purposely breaking a demonstrator’s glasses with no apparent provocation.August 20, 2017 11:36 am at 11:36 am in reply to: Let’s Hock About The Woman On The Bus Who Refused To Move #1342927
your suggestion of men in back has no legal distinction (in secular law) from women in back.
No legal distinction, but a big practical distinction. When’s the last time you saw a video of a man making a scene about separate seating? It’s always the women complaining.
IMHO, this is due to the current national pastime of being offended by identity politics. The liberal/MSM world has instilled most of us with the tendency to view certain groups as oppressors and certain groups as oppressed, regardless of the actual facts on the ground. (If an academic comes out with a study suggesting police end up arresting more black people than white people, they’re hailed as a hero for standing up for the oppressed; if somebody points out that this because more black people commit crimes than white people, they’re derided as a racist sticking up for the oppressor.)
Therefore, liberal women have a tendency to view every separation of the genders as an affront to their being, while the men don’t. But if you put the men in the back and the women in the front, libs will see it as sticking up for the poor oppressed women, not sticking up for the evil oppressive men.
If the mehadrin buses called it something catchy in PC-jargon like “a dignity tax on male privilege “, they might even start a cult following.
Didn’t Yushke do some magical stuff to attempt to prove himself and convince Yidden? (Which is why the Beis Din said he was chayiv misa.)
Dunno, did he? Is this documented anywhere?
Also, did he ever say to serve a”z? I thought he just claimed to be Moshiach, and the whole shituf thing only started after his death.August 18, 2017 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm in reply to: Chareidim overwhelmingly voted for Trump, are you satisfied? Any optimism? #1342643
Chareidim overwhelmingly voted for Trump
Source?August 18, 2017 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm in reply to: Let’s Hock About The Woman On The Bus Who Refused To Move #1342642
It’s a privately owned bus who has the right to set their own (religious or otherwise) seating rules.
Is that true? Would a Muslim bus company have the right to send Jews to the back of the bus due to their religious beliefs?
I’ve always said, if the mehadrin bus companies would just have the women sit in the front and the men sit in the back, they wouldn’t have half as many problems.
What, do the mods not believe that somebody who is mevazeh Talmidei Chachomim doesn’t have a chelek in olam haba?
OP, do you really have nothing better to do with your life than sit here on the CR and provide a steady stream of loshon hara and bizuy Talmid Chachom?
EditedAugust 18, 2017 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm in reply to: A two party system in which one party is morally repugnant is a one party system #1342548
What about a two party system in which both parties are morally repugnant?
I don’t care if their Left or Right – I just want them to be Gone.
I become very frustrated when people blame, or place responsibility on, the system. What’s the system? Is it the community’s selfless people who are already doing more than they’re able to do, with less funding than is needed to succeed? Or is it the people who are lamenting that the system isn’t doing enough?
R’ Shmuel Gluck of Areivim
Violence in Europe sharply escalated today, with an as of yet unknown number of pedestrians killed and maimed after being run over by a van, and two Arabs being shot dead by police. This latest flare-up follows years of violence between Europeans and the Arab minority that has left hundreds dead and wounded, and many thousands dead, wounded, or displaced in Syria due to the actions of the European militaries.
Police allege that the Arabs who were shot were responsible for the incident with the van.
Donald Trump condemned violence “on both sides”.August 17, 2017 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm in reply to: The RCA Are Outta Control, And Do NOT Speak For Me #1341441
If there is a Neo-Nazi/KKK rally that turns violent, we do not condemn “violence on both sides”. That’s about as ridiculous as condemning violence on both sides of WWII, or violence on both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Let’s not pretend that there is some sort of equivalence between those fighting for evil and those fighting against it.
If being conspicuously Jewish is your goal in Yarmulke selection, wouldn’t a colorful Yarmulke stick out more than a black one?August 17, 2017 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm in reply to: The RCA Are Outta Control, And Do NOT Speak For Me #1341351
“What Trump is missing here is uniqueness of white supremacism, of Nazism, of the KKK. Yes, there were bad guys on both sides. That’s not the point. This was instigated… over a Nazi rally. And the only killing here occurred by one of the pro-Nazi, pro-KKK people.”
– Charle Krauthammer
Actuality, it seems to have begun today, here in the CR, with the return of PBA:August 17, 2017 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm in reply to: The RCA Are Outta Control, And Do NOT Speak For Me #1341337
a group of Nazis and a group of violent lefties gathered in a U.S. city in order to fight each other, with bats, clubs, pepper spray, and bottles of chemicals on both sides… Both sides were equally wrong in this case.
And both sides carried out vehicular terrorist attacks against each other, resulting in bloodied bodies from both sides strewn about the street. Also, both side started the conflict, and were opposing equally apprehensible things (Confedrate statues being taken down, vs the rise of the Nazis and the KKK).
But this should come as no surprise – moral relativism dictates that both sides are always responsible. Both the Nazis and the Americans bombed civilian cities during WWII. Both the Israelis and the Palestinian kill people.
Who are we to judge?
When one side is Nazis, there is no such thing as a “nice Neo-Nazi”
Stop being so judgemental, you idiot! Trump has decried that there are nice Nazis, and if you deny it it’s only because you have your DemonCrat head in the FakeMedia sand!
Yiddish is a dying language
Now that’s pushing it. The Yiddish-speaking communities (such as the various Chassidim and the heavily Yeshivish) are increasing in size much more rapidly than the other Orthodox communities are.August 17, 2017 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm in reply to: The RCA Are Outta Control, And Do NOT Speak For Me #1341264
“The RCA Are Outta Control, And Do NOT Speak For Me”
The only proof you could bring to this is the RCA’s statement against Nazis??
PBA, your hiatus has made you lose your touch.
#ShudderShudderAugust 16, 2017 8:07 am at 8:07 am in reply to: Should We View Satmar Growth and Anti Israel Indoctrination as Concern #1339929
I don’t mind the small amount of my tax dollars spent on foreign aid to Israel
Nor do I – I’m actually quite happy about it. But I’m also quite happy about the small amount of my tax dollars going to my fellow yidden here in the US. And I do not believe that the State of Israel is any more deserving of US tax money (aka, my tax money) than a Satmar chossid in Monroe is.
, I did hear that there is a tradition going back to Rav Chaim of Volozhin that Jews will never be persecuted as Jews in America
I find that very difficult to believe. Where’d you hear that?August 16, 2017 7:49 am at 7:49 am in reply to: The Antifa Alt-Left Extreme Left-Wing Violent Anti-Semites #1339924
How about putting them and the white nationalists on an island together?
Middle of watching a truly disturbing video from RealClearPolitics about the White Nationalist/Supremacist incident… Quite scary to see so many angry & armed people marching to chants of “Jews will not replace us”, the Nazi chant “Blood and soil”,
One particularly remarkable quote from the scumbag who arranged this thing: “I have a pistol, I go to the gym, to become more capable of violence. I hope somebody even more capable come along, somebody like Donald Trump, but who doesn’t give his daughter to a Jew” (I really can’t do justice to the malice and disgust that his tone conveyed – you have to watch the video to really get a feel for it).
Other quotes from the riot include: “this city is run by Jewish communists and other criminals”, from a guy wearing Daily Stormer (neo-nazi website) t-shirt.
Thank hen there’s a couple of shots of bloodied bodies laying on the street following the White Nationalist/Supremacist terrorist attack.
All followed by Trump saying that he condemns violence “on both sides”…
Remember, never say “it can’t happen here…”
I have met many people who are searching for the truth – none have ever found it. But there are a few people who love the truth – and they have found it.
– R’ Yoshe Ber Soloveitchik (heard secondhand in a shiur)August 15, 2017 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm in reply to: Should We View Satmar Growth and Anti Israel Indoctrination as Concern #1339639
What do I make of foreign aid by the US government?
#1 Humanitarian aid is a good thing it it alleviates starvation, disease and homelessness
#2 Military aid may be in our best interests, many Americans would rather arm others than have our own children go off to fight
#3 Some foreign aid is to assuage guilt
While you have addressed the issue of foreign aid in general, you have not answered the specific question of which of these three factors you think would justify the “approximately $233.7 BILLION in aid (adjusted for inflation) that the US has given Israel since the state was formed in 1948”.
…because let’s face it, everything sounds better in an English accent 🙂
This conversation seems to be headed downhill at a rapid rate, and it didn’t start out too high-minded to begin with. Seeing as it is highly doubtful that this discussion will take a sudden constructive turn, this will be my last post here.
In today’s day and age, the right to be offended is one of the most dearly held onto American values that I can think of. Woe be it unto me to get in the way of it (although apparently, woe be it unto me anyway).
Silly me indeed, to think I could somehow manage to steer the conversation to the actual issue, instead of emotionally charge accusations.
I happen to agree with yekke2 that learning Yiddish is an important step in intergrating into ththe Yeshiva world, particularly in Eretz Yisrael, where many shiurim/shmuezem are given in Yiddish.
But still, I don’t think that justifies giving lessons exclusively in Yiddish to high-school, let alone elementary-school, students who have little to no exposure or knowledge of the language. Why should these students lose out on years worth of material? If a Yeshiva believes that learning Yiddish is important, separate Yiddish classes should be given, so students will not lose out on Chumash/Mishnayos/Gemora while they are still new to the language.
The troll face I got, but why is there now a top hat next to all of rebyidd23’s posts?
Syag, I will note that you still haven’t answered the actual question. But hey, it’s a free country – if you don’t want to answer the question, nobody’s gonna force you to.
The funny thing is that I don’t even have a dog in this fight – I didn’t suggest who I agree or disagree with. Actually, I think the whole thread is kinda silly – it’s mostly just people reiterating black and white cases where the answer is obvious, mixed with a couple of emotionally charged accusations about what the other side would do in those said black and white cases.
So, I decided to try asking some specific questions about the gray zones, and about where each of the sides would draw their respective lines. I was hoping to push this whole thread into a more calm, rational, and nuanced discussion of the many gray cases, and away from grandstanding and emotionally charged accusations.
mw13, looked up the Michtov meEliyohu. When R’ Dessler calls this shituf and kfira I’m fairly sure this is a borrowed loshon and lav davka, as I said before.
What makes you think that? I think R’ Dessler meant what he said and said what he meant. If somebody believes that the ultimat reason they are healthy/wealthy/wise is due to their own prowess, they are directly contradicting those words of the Chinuch: השם יתברך הוא הפועל כל המציאות, אדון הכל
Ramban on the possuk of shema brings from Chazal:
רבי נתן אומר מכאן תשובה למינים שהם אומרים שתי רשויות הן שכשעמד הקב”ה על הר סיני ואמר אנכי ד’ אלהיך מי מיחה כנגדו
Hence this is coming to forbid us to believe there could be another god who would want to make a macho’oh against Hashem and say I’m also a god. Both Avi K’s and mw13’s explanations of shituf would make this medrash hard to understand.
How so? I am not suggesting that what I posted above is the only, or even the classic, case of shituf. There can be more than one way of applying an incorrect idea.
But I must say that I am enjoying the sheer novelty of somebody addressing Avi K & I together, as colleagues in agreement. With enough faith, anything truly is possible 😉