SQUARE_ROOT

Responding to HaKatan:

Rabbi Chaim Soloveitchik (also known as Chaim Brisker) died in July 1918 CE.

That was thirty [30] years before the modern State of Israel, which started in 1948 CE.

Concerning those who abandoned the Derech HaTorah and became Secular Zionists,
almost all of them would have abandoned the Derech HaTorah even without Secular Zionism.

And almost all Jews who abandoned the Derech HaTorah during their time in the IDF,
they would have abandoned the Derech HaTorah, even without the IDF.

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No offense intended, sir, but I noticed many times
that you are very eager to make big accusations against Jews.

This is exactly what The Satan does: He is always accusing Jews.

Your never-ending accusations against Jews,
they make you just like The Satan.

If you were a true tzadik, you would maximize the severity
of your own sins, while minimizing the sins of other Jews.
This is what was taught by Rabbi Yisroel Salanter ZTL ZYA.

Harvard Law Professor Alan M. Dershowitz said:

“When Jews complain about anti-Semitism or anti-Zionism,
they are often made to feel that they are oversensitive.”

SOURCE: Chutzpah by Alan M. Dershowitz
(chapter 3, page 83) published in year 1991 by Little Brown & Co
ISBN: 9780316181372 ISBN: 0316181374

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Harvard Law Professor Alan M. Dershowitz said:

“But more always seems to be demanded of the Jewish nation
and of the Jewish people than of others.

Jews, unlike other groups, are expected to be in the
forefront of defending the rights of their sworn enemies.”

SOURCE: Chutzpah by Alan M. Dershowitz
(chapter 5, page 170) published in year 1991 by Little Brown & Co
ISBN: 9780316181372 ISBN: 0316181374

Hearing his criticisms of Zionism, someone once told him
[Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz],
“I too hate the Zionists. They should be cursed.”

“Chas v’chalilah (Heaven forbid)!”
Reb Shraga Feivel [Mendlowitz] interjected.

“To the contrary: They should be blessed,
along with all those who are building up our Holy Land.
I only pray that they observe mitzvos.

But chalilah to curse or hate them.
They are tinokos shenish’bu
(people who never received a Jewish education and so were led astray).”

SOURCE: Reb Shraga Feivel: the life and times of
Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz, the architect of Torah in America
(chapter 16, page 228) by Yonoson Rosenblum for Artscroll / Mesorah,
year 2001 CE, based on Aharon Sorasky’s Shelucha DeRachmana,
ISBNs: 157819797X, 9781578197972, 1578197961, 9781578197965

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Rabbi Shraga Feivel Mendlowitz was the founder
of Torah U’Mesorah and became principal of
Yeshiva Torah Vodaas in year 1921 CE.

His career in Yeshiva Torah Vodaas lasted 25 years.
He was known as
“the premier architect of Torah in American history.”

Chaim87 said something like this,
on 2025 September 11 at 5:06 PM,
in a discussion named: “Going OTD in the IDF”:
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Some myths need to be dispelled:

Zionism is not shmad or off-the-derech.

Its a machlokos and dependent on Shokul HaDas,
as to who your Rav or Daas Torah is.

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Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak HaKohen Kook ZTL ZYA was big tzadik.

Rabbi Isser Zalman was maspid him, and the Chafetz Chaim defended his honor.

He was sent by Rabbi Elchanon’s own brother-in-law,
who was the gadol at the time Rabbi Chaim Ozer to America,
to represent the holy Rav (together with the Ohr Somayach).

These are facts and there are pictures of the historic visit.
Not only was Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak HaKohen Kook
a huge tzadik, but so was Rabbi Herzog ZTL.

Does anyone know how much he ran around trying to save Jews during the Holocaust?
Listen to Rabbi Berel Wein ZTL talk about the time Rabbi Herzog spoke about
trying to save Jewish children in monasteries after the war.
The tears he shed as he told everyone to fight for the next generation.
Only a tzadik can do that.

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Then we have the holy Rizyna Rabbis, all who embraced Zionism.
So Zionism is Al-Pi-Torah and has legs.

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This story with Rabbi Aron Lieb is likely made up or exaggerated.
Rabbi Shteinman started Nachal Charedi and Vadas Tal.

Everyone knows he supported the [Israeli] Army at least
for those not holding by going to yeshiva.
You can’t make up a shita from one isolated story that likely never happened!

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There is an issue with secularism.

As others pointed out its a case by case basis.
What unit does the army-joiner join?
Was he using the army as an exit strategy but off before hand?

The big issue with Rabbi Shteinman’s comprise of Nachal Charedi
was that it was established for weaker boys,
which means from the get-go, you are doomed.
A system like Hesder Yeshivahs where there are
a lot of good boys could only elevate the others.

HaKatan said:

“…. the Satmar Rav wrote decades ago, that non-Zionist rule
by a responsible Esav ruler would be far better for Jews…”

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MY RESPONSE:

How can Jews guarantee that the Esav ruler would be “responsible”?

ANSWER:
We can’t! There is no way to guarantee that the Esav ruler would be “responsible”.

The Satmar Rav’s suggestion is nothing more than Wishful Thinking,
that is very unlikely to succeed in the real world.

No offense intended, but we cannot endanger millions of Jews,
and our holy places, for the Satmar Rav’s unrealistic fantasy.
Sorry about that!

Harvard Law Professor Alan M. Dershowitz said:

“There is yet a third strain of the current virus of anti-Semitism,
this one even more difficult to diagnose. Its danger lies in its subtlety,
its pervasiveness, and its acceptability at all levels of our society.

This is a phenomenon familiar to all of us, yet difficult to
articulate and expose: the singling out of Jewish institutions
and especially Israel for special scrutiny, and the application
of a double-standard to Jewish things and persons.

This phenomenon, which currently has no accepted name,
assumes a variety of forms, but its most obvious manifestation
is the special and often gloating attention paid by the media,
[and] by intellectuals, and by the government to any deviation
by Israel, no matter how trivial, from the highest norms
of humans rights, civility, and sacrifice.

Though Israel may be deserving of criticism, what is missing
is the comparable criticism of equal or greater violations
by other countries and other groups.

This constant, often legitimate criticism of Israel for every one
of its deviations, when coupled with the absence of legitimate criticism
of others, creates the impression currently prevalent on university campuses
and in the press that Israel is among the worst rights violators in the world.

We have all heard that phrase repeated many times.
It is not true, but if it is repeated often enough, it takes on a reality of its own.”

SOURCE: Chutzpah by Alan M. Dershowitz
(chapter 4, page 119) published year 1991 by Little Brown & Co
ISBN: 9780316181372 * ISBN: 0316181374

Rabbi Elchonon Wasserman died in year 1941 of the Common Era.

He never saw the modern State of Israel, which started in 1948 CE.

Yankel Berel, everything I said in this discussion was true.

If it was not true, then I would not have said it.

Sorry about that.

Harvard Law Professor Alan M. Dershowitz said:

“Why is Israel singled out for super-scrutiny and double-standard criticism,
expected to maintain a level of moral behavior not demanded of anyone else?”

SOURCE: Chutzpah by Alan M. Dershowitz
(introduction chapter, page 4) published in year 1991 CE
by Little Brown & Co * ISBN: 9780316181372 * ISBN: 0316181374

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PERSONAL COMMENT:

Israel is the *** ONLY *** nation that is required
to fight its genocidal enemies in a way that produces
ZERO civilian casualties, even when Israel’s enemies
constantly use civilians as “Human Shields”.

Israel is the *** ONLY *** nation that is required
to FEED its genocidal enemies, even when
the leaders of their genocidal enemies constantly
*** STEAL *** the food, as soon as it is delivered!

“In 1948, after the Arabs attacked the newly declared Jewish state
and soldiers were falling on the battlefield, several Roshei Yeshivah
taunted Reb Shraga Feivel [Mendlowitz] for having
recited the blessing [HaTov VeHaMeitiv].

Reb Shraga Feivel turned to Rabbi Aharon Kotler,
who agreed with him that the U. N. resolution was indeed worthy of the blessing.”

SOURCE: Reb Shraga Feivel: the life and times of Rabbi Shraga
Feivel Mendlowitz, the architect of Torah in America
(chapter 26, page 331, footnote 3, heard from Rabbi Nesanel Quinn)
by Yonoson Rosenblum for Artscroll / Mesorah, year 2001,
based on Aharon Sorasky’s Shelucha DeRachmana,
ISBNs: 157819797X, 9781578197972, 1578197961, 9781578197965

[1] Hillary Clinton (Democrat) supplied Iran with Uranium to enrich their nuclear weapons.

[2] President Barack Hussein Obama (Democrat) gave Iran
$1.7 BILLION DOLLARS that they used to fund their nuclear weapons.

[3] President Barack Hussein Obama (Democrat) negotiated a treaty with Iran,
which guaranteed that they would eventually get nuclear weapons, in around 15 years.

[4] President Joe Biden (Democrat) unfroze over $16 BILLION DOLLARS of Iranian money.
What do you think they used it for? Their nuclear weapons!

CONCLUSION:
Members of the Democrat Party did everything they could, to help Iran get nuclear weapons.

SomeJewIKnow said:

“I say Zionism is bad because it rejects fundamentals of Yiddishkeit:
moshiach, schar v’onesh, and the definition of Klal Yisroel.

By extension Zionists also come to reject more fundamentals such as:
Torah min hashomayim, emina Bashem, and more.”

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MY RESPONSE:

You are 100% wrong. You do not know what you are talking about!

Religious Zionism DOES NOT reject ANY of those things:

Religious Zionism DOES NOT reject moshiach.
Religious Zionism DOES NOT reject schar v’onesh.
Religious Zionism DOES NOT reject Torah min hashomayim.
Religious Zionism DOES NOT reject emina Bashem.

PLEASE STOP spreading false statements about Religious Zionism.

Thank you.