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I don’t know why you havent gained entry, unless its for married women only and you are single. Either way, I wouldn’t be sorry.
I think it is a dangerous place for some people. I have friends who were having some serious marital trouble and found all kinds of support for their “bad” behavior (not wanting to communicate, keeping secrets) from others struggling with the same issues. Some people will get heterim for some very specific and personal issues and post them as “options” available for the taking. Someone who is struggling with certain laws may look for a mentor to answer their questions, or they can just post a bunch of grievances and find a bunch of people to back them on the validity of their complaints. Support is extremely important, but bull sessions that threaten marriages are really dangerous. These are things I have personally experienced/read there, not third party.
based on everything I have said, do YOU think I would feel the same about a 6 month old?
And I have to laugh because, as a pediatric OT, I’m pretty good at determining what what motor skills are coming 🙂
But regarding your neighbors, I give you credit for calling them fine people. No matter how much they love their children the things you have described are full fledged neglect. Toddlers unsupervised outside, blocks away, running into streets?! They should lose their children regardless of how much they love them. That doesn’t sound like relying on miracles, that is child endangerment.
By the way, I didn’t mean to deprive you of that rice kugel recipe, I just haven’t had my computer and cook book in the same place for a while.
I think I agree with that.
and I still think that there are a lot of similarities between shoppings posts and zeeskite (et al)
wow – I am really oversensitive today. Must be 8 days with fever has made me weak.
You are so right about all that, and I can’t stand seeing kids walk around with pacifiers or bottles well past the age they should. Regarding milk, guilty as charged. Many of my kids are lactose intolerant so I don’t even bother offering it as a drink to the others. We will put it in cereal though.
The reason I was so sure you were being sarcastic is because in the other thread I was “knocking” being too protective (I’m the one who WOULD have put my baby in that cart) and I included spoon feeding those who are too old. So when you mentioned cutting up sausages, I assumed you were sarcastically pointing out that tho I put down doing things for a child, it is clear that it is sometimes a safety issue. I honestly thought that if someone like ME would not give sausages to a two and a half year old, than certainly you (who appears to be more careful than I, though not overdone) wouldn’t either, and you were just saying it as a dig to my comments.
If that makes no sense, don’t lose sleep over it. I just need a few tylenol and some rest 🙂
golfer – Thank you for explaining. that was the second post in a couple hours that seemed to be sarcastic digs at me so I was feeling very paranoid. I obviously put my foot in my mouth with that post and figured you were enjoying the comedy 🙂
I am a true book addict and would LOVE more threads about books but we have never had a thread that didn’t include sweeping comments about the quality of *all* Jewish books, as if the posters have read them all, and are so above them all as to speak so freely. Truly though, I am sure I was taught that bad mouthing jewish authors (as is the case with kosher restaurants) can be a very big problem of lashon horah (with or without motzei shem rah, depending on the author). It is for that reason that I either avoid book threads, avoid posting on them or just cringe til they disappear.
Wish I could hear more about the books you like . . .
someone informed me that although her post seems to indicate to an outsider that it is NOT a jewish written book,it in fact is published by artscroll. I am just very sensitive to jewish author bashing from the view point of it being a halachik issue and responded to that.
you obviously knew that and hence asked. . .
glad I could entertain.
I’m not sure why you think that’s funny. If you are directing your sarcasm at me, I find it hurtful.
RisingSun – whether or not you are correct about the water being better for the baby, your post is filled with you making up things that you think the baby was thinking/feeling. You KNOW that the baby needed that cleansing feeling the water gives you when you are sick? Seriously? You sound like you are repeating something your mom used to tell you. Do you really think that these moms are just idiots who don’t know how to tend to their babies, and if only Hashem would have blessed them with the knowledge you have their children would be happy and smiley sick children? I find it offensive (as you can tell) that you would SNEAK anything to a baby, let alone a sick baby, behind the mother’s back. You may mean well, you may (or may not) be correct about the benefits of water, but you are incorrect about your role as a babysitter.
I’m not wasting my breath chastising popa – I’m letting all the sensitive, kindhearted, pleasant posters out there who took offense know that there are people looking out for them and what they stand for!.
I think you are picking at my words, but I also think you understood most of what I said. And the day my 3 month old turns over while bundled and falls out of a cart that has walls 6 plus inches above him on all sides, I will rethink things. I absolutely took all you mentioned into account already BEFORE I spoke, I was NOT referring to being laid bac about safety issues and I tried to be clear about that.
I think you are correct in saying that your experience with your neighbors has predisposed you and I feel horrible for you to have to live under such conditions. It would affect me in the exact same way (but I probably would be more cruel and nasty than you are capable of).
As far as my mis-assessing (if it wasn’t a word, it is now) safety, I already mentioned that I take that second look when confronted, but I would have to say that I would be very surprised if I did. I made, and continue to make lots of mistakes in every other area of parenting, but B”H a million times over, (and mostly due to living in an apartment so small that my children were never really alone), they were safe.
I am very curious, however, to see how I am as a grandmother one day, Bez”H. I have a feeling it will be very different.
As an aside but related, the first time I took a child to the emergency room for stitches (he fell on a sharp knife I left on the floor) (JUST KIDDING) the nurse said, “Do you mean to tell me you have 5 boys and this is your first visit for stitches?” I was hoping her being impressed was a kiddush Hashem somehow. I don’t think, for a minute that it was my own doing, I was just hoping that the nurse would think so 🙂
golfer – I agree with everything you said except that popas sense of humor is one of the best things about the CR. I also don’t think he cares that it isn’t funny, that’s why he did it.
I’m pretty sure I’m right, too.
Dash – love it!
I was going to leave this thread alone because I didn’t want to sound like I was nit picking but I think something very important has been revealed. I don’t think oomis is old fashioned. She is only a bit older than I am but I have found myself on board with almost everything she says. In this situation, I disagree strongly, but it is really not about that.
I am a VERY careful parent, VERY safety conscious. If I would put my baby in that position, it is because it is, without a doubt, 100% safe. The fact that someone else would pass by and disagree does not change that fact. But that, to me, is not the real issue here.
I have been in situations where, as a mom of many boys, my children have been allowed to climb on things or rough house in ways that older people, or “girl moms” thought was dangerous. It wasn’t. But they believed with their whole heart that it was. So the bottom line is, are they right just because they think they are? If they would deal differently, does that give them the right to decide I am negligent? Is their overprotective nature, which they DON’T see as overprotective, automatically a license to condemn?
Anyone who knows me knows they can trust me with their kids, as well as mine. If they see me doing something they “assume” was not safe, wouldn’t it behoove them to stop and think that perhaps they have a misperception? Or is it automatically wrong because it does not fit in to their baseline of safety? Trust me, I am NOT speaking about using knives or staying home alone. I am talking about things like climbing on monkey bars, riding bicycles with no hands, and reaching a high shelf.
I understand that with safety it is important NOT to be laissez-faire, but there is nothing wrong with taking a second look and making sure that your quick assessment and condemnation is not tainted by your own personal life experiences and is, in fact, based in reality. And I do the same when I think parents are being ridiculously overprotective and enabling their children. Or depriving them of independence by spoon feeding them, dressing them, or doing other things for them when they have long passed the age where they should be doing it for themselves.
Safety is not a perception, it is a reality, but assessment of that reality is subjective as we are all human. Please take two looks next time you pass someone who you are SURE is negligent. If you are correct, the second look should encourage you to act. If you are wrong, the second look should encourage you not to judge unfairly.
oomis, not to argue the point, but I am still not sure what you are visualizing. A 3-5 month old baby wrapped in a blanket can lay down snuggly in this space with walls on ALL sides coming up a good 6 inches around him and space on all sides. Whether you would place him there or not, I am not sure what about it seems so misguided.
you must have been in the pool.
Oomis – the car seat is actually made to clip onto the upper part of the shopping cart. I didn’t feel safe doing that though, I didn’t like the distance from the floor. I also don’t like seeing kids spend hours in their carseats, moving from place to place but never actually being moved. It is very unhealthy but because they keep changing environments the parents don’t always realize they have been stuck in one position for so long.
P.S. nice to meet another Ema, most are Imas.
golfer – I agree with you and Oomis but I am not understanding how this set up isn’t safe. It is much safer than perching a car seat on top of a bar on a cart facing 4 feet of nothingness. I must be visualizing something very different than you are.
Ken Zayn – I am so sorry that that is what Judaism looks like to you. Maybe you should move! And to try to connect all that seriously depressing outlook into this lady in the store is so sad.
WIY – I have placed my babies safely in the cart as you described, but only after making sure 100% that they were safe. Any scenario you would like to construct to argue that does not apply, as I would not have placed them there if they were not safe. I also would not have walked away from the cart, nor would I have placed things ON him, though I am certain I put things around their legs. While I feel you may or may not be wrong in your judgement, I consider it a tremendous maaleh that you are so caring for an infant.
And yes, Haleivi, many here don’t consider the mother’s human. In the CR there are many who see mothers as mindless baby machines who obviously had too many children because it never occured to them to do otherwise, not because they wanted to contribute to klal Yisroel or build a bayis neeman. If you know individuals suffering otherwise, get them help, but stop calling it a hashkofik issue!
Because people shouldn’t be asked to house multiple guests for a week during shana rishona when they are still getting used to each other unless they are exceptional types who can do it happily. After that, it is something we, as Jews, do. If you can’t, fine. But to think of hachnosos orchim as offensive and being asked to “be a hotel” is not our way.
I think that (if this even really happened) she is way off to ask you to house people for a week. Even one person for a week would be off. But I do think your attitude is off too. What do you mean a hotel? Do you really think helping out by having people over is wrong? Well it isn’t. It is only wrong in this particular case because you are newly married.
walton – you signed on and spewed the same comment on two different threads without even finding out what the question was. you must be a college graduate.
Oh Gosh, Zdad, that has got to be the best line I have ever read in the CR! Way to go!
My mom mixed ketchup and brown sugar to make a bbq sauce without the heat. I use it on chicken and meat. I never thought of using ketchup alone, I wonder if my kids would eat it.
i am impressed with your level. I have lost sleep (literally) over this since he disappeared, Jeff’s brother was a good friend of mine in high school and I couldn’t deal with the thought of their pain. I know you are right about respecting their privacy but it is very difficult not to want to know what happened. I’ll work on it.
HaLeiVi – what a kind response to someone who writes such a heartfelt post. Kind of out of character for you.
DaMoshe – that is great, I would like to join you in trying to be a better representative of who we are supposed to be. Not many people have been able to be mikarev anyone with harshness, kol hakavod.
DY – he doesn’t say anywhere that it is to make people respect his *views*, he said it was to make people be more respectful of *eachother*.
gavra – I don’t disagree with most of what you are saying, but you are painting with a very broad brush. How many seminaries have you actually attended? How many seminaries have your close friends actually attended? Is this another one of those “I know 10 girls from NY who think this way from their sem year” so it must be that this is the curriculum? Your points are good, stick with them instead of getting lost in the “down with sem” fan club.
and you consider that justification? That’s pretty lame.
Your point was that he is not here. You are wrong because he is here. That clear enough?
Okay – if this is going to turn into a feif bash while he isn’t even here, then we should all leave.
He is probably seeing all of this and can respond if he wishes either himself or through DaMoshe.
To those of us who actually know what CBT is and people who have benefited from it, all you have proven is that you haven’t a clue.
And that is my “happy thought”
I think he just meant what he said, for example, I have O and so does my husband. It is not possible for our kids to be anything but O. If one turned out to be A or B it would indicate different paternity.
PBA – who asked you!
Feif – I have to tell you I know how you feel and I also can’t stand those discussions even IF there is halachik justification. But sometimes it is my defensiveness speaking because of my background and my assumption of theirs. I would hate to see you leave so upset, and the only advice I can give you is not new:
1. Stop opening threads that upset you.
2. I think there are other factions being attacked but it doesn’t stand out as much.
3.(nobody is gonna like this)When the MO community makes halachically inappropriate decisions as an organization, it may be halachically permissible to say so, but most of the things the chareidi community is doing are unethical behaviors on a personal level and then it’s l”h.
I would love to know how you feel about ketchup and CBT if you care to share.
Just a guess but I don’t think popa ever heard of CBT before this thread posted. That’s why he’s called a troll.
truthsharer – yes but we part ways on two thoughts. I will not free Winston of blame for her writings and I will not even consider opening the door to, as you say, “the actions that caused the murder”. That is overstepping bounds of decency and spouting ignorance of a different kind. How bout stick to things we know and things we will benefit from discussing. This is about our pain and our growth as Am Yisroel, not about making tabloid writers change their spots.
truthsharer – that’s exactly what I said. But I was a lot nicer and wasn’t about name calling. Maybe people will listen better to me.
popa is answering from a text book point of view. In real life, CBT does work for some people. I have seen it do great things for kids and adults who have anxiety or ADHD, who don’t want to use medication. If you try it for a bit and don’t see results, it might not be for you.
nisht – my bandwagon comment was referring to the OP and anyone willing to string her up without worrying about whether or not she even wrote it.
WIY – exactly. We are an extremely intelligent group and if we used more discretion before rallying (not applicable here, per se) we wouldn’t look so foolish. Jumping in protest every time a yid gets in trouble, without finding out if it’s possibly a legit situation ruins our credibility for times like this.
that I miss those days a lot.
we use LOTS of garlic. I put almost a whole head of garlic in most things I make (including omelets, but not in chocolate chip cookies) I grew up eating cholent from the blech and I think it tastes better but we use a crock pot here so this is what I do that makes it awesome:
sautee onion and garlic (lots)
add meat to pan and brown it ALL over.
I let it sit on the fire for a little bit and then dump it into the crock pot with the barley potatoes etc.
I also make rice using soup instead of water and cut chicken into little pieces and mix it in.
first get to chicago, then we’ll figure out how to get you here.
sounds good, ketchup or bbq sauce for the cholent. Or feel free to eat by us.
yitzchokm read my mind. You may be the real deal but your writing style, and “u are weird” don’t sound much like a 40 something year old.
nisht – she would have had no reason to deny writing it if she did. I just think it makes people look foolish when they jump on bandwagons instead of becoming informed. If she didn’t write it, this is misplaced and foolish, write it to the editor who published it.
That is pretty drastic considering she didn’t write this article. I know she has written against the yidden before, but I also know she has exposed some people who were doing some pretty rotten things and being protected by some pretty rotten people. Is that also wrong?
Just ask the guy behind the counter. Or toss a coin.
I happen to not mind ketchup, and grew up in a house where it was placed on the table along with the salt shaker, but my kids are pure BB-que sauce eaters. Even on fries. Personally I feel it has its place, but would rather eat mayonnaise on anything. I certainly put mayo on my corned beef (on white bread).
What I don’t understand is why anyone would voluntarily wear high heels.
I really shouldn’t complain, I did a lot less shoveling than my kids. But the puddles on the floor under their boots are annoying too.
In the end school is cancelled tomorrow and it isn’t even about the millions of feet of snow we have blowing around outside, it’s the cold.
I am sooo tired of shoveling!
It has to be fine because I bought one for my son.