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The Achdus vanished over a century ago when a large number Ashkenazi Jews went off the derekh. A major factor during World War II is that the hiloni Jews assumed Hitler was only out to get the frum Jews, and were shocked when he turned out not to like good, western, irreligious Jews. In America, the secular Jews actually lobbied the American government not to support acitvities designed to rescue Jews (e.g. bombing the concentration camps and the railroad leading to them). If you try working outside the frum “ghetto”, you’ll discover that most American goyim are quite tolerant and even supportive of frumkeit in matters such as kashrus, Shabbos, clothing, etc. — where as the secular Jews object strongly to accomodation of frumkeit.
Regardless of the halachic definition, for practical purposes a Jew is someone who is Shomer Mitsvos – and defined that way, there is plenty of achdus even between the streimels and the kippah serugahs, and all points in between.
Whereas a penny, even though they switched to cheaper metal, is roughly worth a cent – if a dime was still made of silver it would be worth roughly $3, or if made a silver and worth $0.10 it would be not much bigger than a pencil point.
“rationalfrummie” – actually separate entrances or clincs for men and women would be quite legal in the United States – unlike some countries, virtually all hospital rooms are single sex — bathrooms and changing rooms in public facilities are always single sex – the standard of religious accomodation is that an employer or service provider can not be ordered to accomodate religious practices if it creates a “de minimis” cost, but that such accomodation is allowed and is generally considered praiseworthy — when a university agreed to accomodate Muslims with separate swimming, the objection was based rather clearly on hatred of Islam, not on any gender based theories. Remember Israel is a country reknown for all sorts of things of the type we can’t discuss here (such as “recruiting” young women from other countries to do such things for pay that we can’t talk about in proper company – and advertsing the fact to attract tourists). It’s not about status of women – it’s about hatred of Bnei Torah.
it should be understand that the rules against gender separation reflect not a desire for sexual equality but are based solely on hatred and bigotry against frum Jews – based on what we’ve seen elsewhere we can expect that this bigotry will probably evolve into much stronger measures to reduce the number of hareidim (perhaps following the proverbial czarist formula – assimilate a third, kill a third, and convince a third to leave the country).
Consider the world in 1913 (one hundred years ago, the last full year before “everything changed”). Look at the standard of living typical of Jews, whether the highly materialistic ones on the Lower East Side of New York, or the ones concentrating on Torah in Yerusalayim (then a provincial backwater in the Ottoman Empire). By those standards, is anyone in Israel or the United States really POOR. Today’s paupers live better than many middle class people of a century ago. They eat better. Have more room to live. Have healthier and better tasting food. Have air conditioning. Have access to medical care that would have been the stuff of science fiction a century ago. Face it – we are RICH, all of us. Stop whining.
HURT.
The need to send a message to those working for the government. And Pollard is even less sympathetic since he was in it (at least in part) for the money.
Food: so eat less meat, it’s healthier that way — kosher vegetarians don’t have a significant economic penalty
Clothes: probably costs less to be well dressed – no need for $1000 suits except maybe on Shabbos – fashions change very slowly – if you were respectable in Boro Park 30 years ago, you can still go out in public in the same clothes
Communal fees: they are all need adjusted — most shuls don’t charge unless you want to reserve a specific seat for three days a year, and the fees are tiny compared to Reform and Conservative
THE BIG COST: is the “opportunity costs” of spending time learning instead of making money, and being limited to Shabbos-friendly job, of inability to take advantage of most non-need based scholarships (which it turns out are tied to athletics or military service), having to live in a city with at least basic Jewish services (kosher food, mikva, shul)
The also the expense of having children — Secular Jews have few if any. We spend most of our discretionary income on the kids. They have poodles, we have kinderloch. Fair choice. And I’ve yet to hear about a poodle taking care of you in old age.
All academic institutions, in all cultures, “frown” on students dropping out and “working” unless it is the right sort of work (e.g. teaching the subject you’ve been studying). If you drop out of a Ph.D. program in humanities and become something un-humanistic, such as a lawyer or a mechanic or a businessman, they are annoyed. You’ve abandonned the honorable and worthy life of scholarship for something as mundane as making money.
In a way not dissimilar for a yeshiva, within a short time, you are a distinguished alumni (even if you never finished a program), and would you care to make a donation?
Do you really think we are all that weird?
What’s different is that they are in cultures in which making money is the highest goal, and we are in a culture in which scholarship is the most respected activity. In their culture, women look down on marrying scholars since they fear poverty. In our culture, scholars are looked up to and have the easiest time getting shidduchim. In their culture, parents worry if “little Jimmy” spends all his time reading and not doing what they consider to be good “boy things”, and in our culture, parents are elated when “little Yankel” loves learning and isn’t really interested in sports or games or getting into mischief.
For starters you are talking about American yeshivish, which is based on “Brooklynese” – they don’t talk like that if they were raised in Gateshead or Bnei Brak. Add in pieces of Yiddish, Israeli Hebrew and Talmudic Aramaic,including grammatical variants, syntax and vocabulary, and you get “yeshivish.”
From a linguistics perspective,it is quite fascinating.
Do not confuse the right to own a gun with having one. Unless you like to hunt (very hard for a Yid- we need to bring a goy to eat the treff animal since it otherwise it would be Tsar Baal Hayyim) or shoot targets, it isn’t worth owning a gun unless you have enemies you need to defend against.
In America, there aren’t many people we would want to shoot.
In Israel, the zionists have a lot of people they like to shoot. It isn’t that hareidim don’t have people they’ld love to shoot, but their rabbanim tell them no to.
Define “child abuse”?
The frei Jews include things such as Bris Milah and encouraging children to learn Torah to be child abuse. Do you include not letting kids use the internet or watch television, or making them wear long and unfashionable clothes which would look ridiculous in a “good” neighborhood?
Do you mean the sort of stuff we can’t discuss on YWN involving a child (which the frei Jews like to accuse frum Jews of, but never seem to be able to find any solid evidence which is why many of us compare these to witchcraft accusations)? Those accusation usually involve offenses that would be capital by halacha, which I’m sure you know (you can check humash if you have any doubts).
Ha-Shem’s monitoring them as well. Including the actual contents and screens. Now that’s something to worry about.
Sophie Scholl (and friends)
The problem of integrating the fanatical secularists into a middle eastern society founded on holiness (kedusha) is deeply entwined with the Israeli politics, society and the possibilities of peace with the goyim.
The population of Eretz Yisrael consists primarily of Muslims (remember the East Bank, West Bank and Gaza are part of Eretz Yisrael) who will never agree to being ruled over, bossed around, and humiliated by being subject to rule by others – and all the more insulting since the others are sex crazed secularists trying to spread their perverse view of the world and impose it on others.
abcd2: Which is why I support the Hareidi (e.g. Eidah hareidis) approach – don’t accept money from the zionists. As it says in Pirke Avos (meaning everyone should know about it – its not like its kaballah or something), when the govenrment gives you money, it’s always for an ulterior motive and you should be wary.
zahavasdad: The “bribe” paid to the yeshiovos was in return for having the hareidi parties support the payers on political issues. It was, as they say in American law, good and valuable consideration. In fact, the bulk of financial support for Israeli yeshivos is not the from the government but from private (typically American) sources. That’s why the initial plan to coerce enlistment by cutting off yeshiva stipends failed – the stipends were negligible.
Every election the hareidi parties thanked the hilonim by supporting their governments (the pay back for them supporting Torah). That was the deal. You scratch my back, I scratch yours. You support Torah, we support your coalition.
The problem is that the Torah community kept growing and is jeapordizing the long term hiloni control over Eretz Yisrael. We aren’t will to reduce our numbers, and they can’t increase their’s.
In the time of Haman, we concluded the gezerah was from Ha-Shem, as it covered all the Jews, and we responded by davening, fasting and learning.
Inthe time of the Misyavanim and their Greek allies, since the gezerah was only against Torah (the Greeks loved Jews who gave up mitsvos), we concluded that couldn’t be from Ha-Shem, and responded with “this world” sorts of actions.
The standardized tests (such as the SAT and the LSAT) have nothing to do with “intelligence” other than that the person taking the test has to have enough intelligence to realize that it is a test on aquired skills. Of course, those who believe it is an intelligence test, will fail — and tghose who know to study for it, will succeed.
to popa_bar_abba: The skill of thinking like a lawyer is basically the same as having a good “gemara kup” (head for gemara). It’s the ability to look at system of rules, and to apply those rules to facts. That probably can’t be taught, at least easily (and goes well beyond learning the rules, which is what law schools teach).
The knowledge of English language and substantive academic skills are all acquired by effort and hard work. Even if there is such a thing as an intelligence test, the LSAT isn’t one — it’s a test on the basic skills need for law school and as such, can be studied for.
1. You can always study for the LSAT, as anything.
2. You need a recognized undergraduate degree.
3. Certain skills (writing, general knowledge) need to be aquired before law school. If you aren’t good at learning stuff, don’t become a lawyer.
4. If you are good at gemara, you’ll probably be good at learning other systems of law. If you hate gemara, you’ll probably hate studying other systems of law. If your Rosh Yeshiva is begging you to join the most advanced shiur, and is offering you a job as a teacher – that a good sign you’ll make it in law school. If the Rosh Yeshiva is suggesting you need a real job, law may be a poor choice for you.
5. Are you sure you want to be a lawyer. If you think it is a “ticket” to riches you are mistaken. It requires a serious investment, with a very uncertain return. If the job appeals to you, go for it.
6. That you think to ask “Am I smart enough to go to law school” suggests you are seriously out of touch with reality. That should be corrected before looking for a job.
WIY: All fish we eat are carnivores, as are all the birds we eat (in farms they are given grain for economic reasons, but in the wild they eat insects). The ONLY factor that determines what we can and can not eat is halacha. If Torah tolds to be vegans we would be vegans. If Torah allowed us to eat dogs or bears (which many cultures consider to be edible), we would.
SpiderJerusalem: “People generally do not keep cows, chickens, sheep, or deer as pets.”
Probably because they are too big, and zoning laws don’t allow it,j and because it’s awkward eating one’s pet. However people do keep such animals, including chickens, as pets, and people who raise them see plenty of signs of personality.
The halachas on eating animals are not based on the personality of the animals, since if that was the case we’ld be vegans. It’s based on Torah. Ha-Shem said “eat” and we “eat”. If we encounter a new sort of animal, we don’t give it a personality test – we determine if it is a type of the critters we’ve been ordered to eat, and if it’s a match, it’s dinner.
It depends on how you define “kosher”, and perhaps is ultimately a question for whomever you rely on for halachic decision making.
In the case of literature there are both issues of decency (what we don’t talk about on YWN) and also of apikorses. Many stories such as Moby Dick, Harry Potter, The Chronicles of Narnia, etc., all are considered to have “Christian” themes. For non-fiction what is “kosher” is much more complicated since you read non-fiction not for entertainment but to gather facts to make judgments pertaining to the real world.
Perhaps it would be useful if there was a site that review non-Jewish literature from a Torah perspective (and written by someone who if familiar enough with the goyim’s culture to realize a religious perspective).
By personality, do you mean intelligence, thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc.
Obviously yes. Including ones we eat such as cows, goats, deer, sheep, even chickens. That’s why people keep them as pets. They recognize people as individuals, display preferences for people and things.
We can eat them because Ha-Shem expressly told us we can. Before that we couldn’t. Adam ha-Rishon didn’t eat fleishigs. If you don’t hold by Humash (and the aggados and kabbalah), you probably should be a vegetarian. Even ones we can’t eat (such as insects, reptiles, rodents, etc.) are still protected by halacha from being tormented or treated cruelly.
Assuming he’s not an American citizen, see that’t he convicted of a felony.
If you are doing sociological research on the “problem” of teenage pregnancy, you probably should exclude women who were married nine months prior to giving birth, since the problem group is limited to what is typical among the non-religious populations, namely unmarried girls who became pregnant while unmarried and (presumably) by “accident” (which is what the sociologists claim, though some dispute that).
There is no “passing” score. Each school determines what is the minimum score they will give credit for. One school may require a 50, the other will require a 60.
Why wouldn’t they?
Not having standing means you are excluded from all legal proceedings. Anyone can legally take your property or your person. This occured in English law (i.e., the legal status of being an “outlaw”). It’s not part of our tradition.
Yichud applies regardless.
She can’t be your Shabbos goy.
You probably have to encourage her to become frum, including routinely treating her as a guest on Shabbos.
His methodology aroused bemusement among genealogists, who usually start with themselves and work back. Doing it the other way around, picking a person and working forwards, ends leading to virtually meaningless results if you start going back too far – and 500 years is stretching it. I used the book to study the development of surnames and found it fascinating.
At this point, virtually every Jew, and probably almost every goy in Europe and the Middle East, is related to Avraham Aveinu, as well as to everyone else from that time. People were constantly moving around. Indeed, we have a mesorah, admittedly al pe kaballah, that every human had a common ancestor less than 5000 years ago (the goyim hold the common ancestor was probably more like several hundred thousand years ago).
Remember also that tools of genealogy don’t pick up converts, since we had to forge fake yichus for them since if the goyim knew someone converted they would execute them as a heretic. It also misses people who went off the derekh, whether or not they later returned, since it would have been loshon ho’ra to record such matters.
My response to someone who starts boasting of yichus is to point out I’m from the family of Adam ha-Rishon by way of Avraham Aveinu, and then ask them what they are descended from.
The are many matters about which Rishonim disagreed, Therefore some were right and some were wrong. If they had all agreed on everything, there would be no need for Achronim to carry on the debates. The question is therefore a classic example of a “Klutz Kasha” since on its own terms the answer is obvious.
If you are really sure you want to be a doctor , realize you’ll have to borrow a humongous sum of money to pay tuition and support your family, and will probably never get rich being a doctor, and your wife likes the idea – why not?
Someone attempted to compile a list of the descendants of Rav Meir Katzenellenbogen (the book was entitled “Unbroken chain”). He ended up proving that virtually everyone alive today is related if you go back a mere 500 years, at least in western Europe. Since this increases exponentially, it turns out everyone alive is related to someone in the last 5000 years. A hiddush!
Would you hold by the science available at the time of say, R. Moshe Feinstein and the Satmarer (the real and original) Rebbe?
What about the science from the time of the Hafets Haim, or the Vilna Gaon.
From a dikduk perspective, “only” is quite correct. The author is stating his/her belief that 290 shekels is a low price for the service offered. It implies the parents are getting a good deal. The author may be totally treff when it comes to facts, but from a grammar perspective he’s glatt kosher.
Define internet!
Do you mean paying for things with plastic cards, or increasingly via a cell phone, so much that paper money and coins are increasingly for collectors, not shopping? I doubt that’s what you object to.
Do you mean the possibility of a hospital to access your medical records held elsewhere before they give you a fatal dose of a drug you are allergic to? I doubt that’s the problem.
Probably you object to use of graphic browsers to see “inappropriate” images – though in all fairness, people found ways to find inappropriate images long before there were computers, or photographs. Some of the oldest man-made objects known appear to be pornographic (and if you hold by our Torah as an historical document, that should not be a surprise).
However the increasing trend of younger people to get information in short bursts, with a high graphic content, rather than from reading and understanding texts is a real problem. Since frum Jews spend a lot of time pouring over documents, we’ll probably be the last ones with decent reading skills.
I”If something like this were to happen right now in Israel, would akuperma say “Oh, that again! Pogroms happen- live with it!”? I sincerely hope not. “
It would be sad if the Jewish community of Eretz Yisrael, or Brooklyn, or Lakewood, was destroyed, but it would not be the end of the world. Such things will happen, have always happened, and will always happen. It is inevitable.
Remember that Stalin and his disciples, could only perceive the world of sheker, and from that perspective a murder, or a massacre, or an act of genocide is definitive. You live only for this world. We however know this world is a mere “prozdor” and nothing more. We perceive the world of emes, and realize that the problems in the prozdor are, in the final analysis, inconsequential.
“but there is no classified checklist locked in a defense ministers drawer that reads “list of ways to break frum people and turn them into secular zionists after enlistment”…”
Actually the Defense Minister believes that the conscription of hareidim is a dumb idea since it will recruit many soliders who will not be helpful in defending the country (unlike the hareidi volunteers, who in fact might not continue to serve once conscription of yeshivos is put in place), and will be soldiers who will be very expensive to maintain (since married draftees, especially with children, are paid substantially more). From a military perspective, there is no “case” to be made for conscription of yeshiva students.
“musser zoger” — What do the Arabs demand? What do the Israelis demand? Territory, economic control, etc. Is either side making demands reflecting anything other than gashmius? Are we demanding they give up Islam? Are they demanding that we give up learning Torah? Look at everyone’s solutions – it’s about borders, settlements, governments, etc. – only thinks affecting the prozdor. We kill, they kill. We destroy, they destroy. That is how wars are fought. If you oppose killing and being killed after matters pertaining to this world, feel free to become hareidi, and worry about real world (as opposed to the world of sheker)
1. Pogroms happen. They have been happening for several millenia. Before that, we had problems like foreign armies hauling away most of the population. We are old hands at surviving genocide. To a “Reform” Jew who believed that the European were the greatest civilization in history, and that the Germans were the most civilized and most advanced people in the world – the holocaust was a horrible shock. To frum Jews, it’s a matter “oh, that again”. They try to kills, HaShem stops them, we survive and carry on. In a few years we recover. It’s happened before, and will probably happen again. Live with it.
2. At this point in time, if we consider how many people would be putting on tefillin this morning if nothing happened – going back to 250 years (i.e. to just prior to the start of the modern period) — the leading cause of reducing the number of Bnei Torah is not the holocaust or even pogroms in general during the period — but assimilation. In fact, most Bnei Torah in America today are the descendants of the refugees from, and survivors of the holocaust. The 90% of American Jews who roots predate that period are for the most “gone”. A handful survived, and a handful of those on the verge of being lost became Baalei Tsuvah — but almost all are lost just as much as the ten lost tribes, or the six million who died during the last world war. It’s nice that most Americans (and probably most goyim in Europe and Middle East) have some Jewish DNA (or rather, DNA inherited from Jews), but what matters are the number of people learning Torah and doing mitsvos.
Thus you shouldn’t get all bent out of shape about the Arabs (with whom we have a disupte about real estate – dinei mamonos at best), but should be panicing over Lapid. You should not place your faith in the IDF to protect you since they incapable of saving us from what threatens us, but you should be worried about the “war” be launched against the yeshivos in Eretz Yisrael, since that is our first and only line of defense against what really threatens us.
Becaus the Dati Leumi camp (Bayit Yehudi, led by Bennett) formed an alliance with Lapid. Likud and the hareidim could form a government, but only if Bayit Yehudi joined. So the reason Lapid has so much power, which he uses to attack the Torah world, is that the Dati Leumi/Modern Orthodox/Religious Zionists – gave it to him (and can take it away at any time).
It was an off the derekh kid. Onemight suggest there is a connection between taking up cheeseburgers and taking up larceny – they are both prohibitted by the same laws, which he has rejected.
Is this limited to Americans (including American expatriates in Israel)? I haven’t heard about this problem elsewhere among frum Jews, and there are many complaints about American youth abusing alcohol. If it is an “American” issues rather than a “Jewish” issue, it affects how to address the problem.
Is this problem limited to the more “modern” types within the frum community who are trying to be cool? I haven’t observed the alcohol abuse among groups such as Satmar that minimize contact with mainstream American culture – suggest the problem is one of kids having too much access to internet, television and movies.
YWN’s editorial policy appears to reflect the dominant viewpoints of Boro Park / Flatbush, which means it tends to be sympathetic with Satmar and the Modern Orthodox/Religious Zionists on many but not all issues.
Everyone has a shidduch crisis, until they get married.
Derech HaMelech who wrote: “So does that mean that all Jews are neither right nor left but a nation taken out of all the other nations with signs and miracles?” — right, but tell the political junkies that, it will spoil their day
NO, it means you believe in statistics.
The only person who had a serious problem finding a shiduch was Adam Ha-Rishon, and Ha-Shem had to intervene to resolve the matter.
Everyone has a shiduch crisis, until they get married. No exception. No hiddush.
“Right” and “Left” refer to which side of the French National Assembly people sat on during the revolution. Jews couldn’t hold office or vote.
The trend on YWN is sympathy with hareidi opposition to military service. Opposition to the conscription is a LEFT wing position.
Almost all posters and commentators, and the article posted by YWN, speak favorably of efforts to garner patronage and government spending for our community without regard to how it is financed – that is definitely a LEFT wing position.
Almost everyone here favors accomodation of religious minorities, such as ourselves, which is a LEFT wing position.
lesschumras: I’ve spent a good deal of time working with Reform and Conservative Jews. They hold that Orthodox Judaism, with its strict adherance to mitsvos, is a recent innovation, and that they (the Reform and Conservative) are really normative Judaism. To them we are a misguided cult who invented all this stuff out of whole cloth over the last few centuries. That is why they see no problem is trying to get the Kossel switched over to “normal” (as they see it) Judaism rather than the (weird, as they see it) orthodox practice of gender segregation.
Because the Reform and Conservative Jews want to push the frum Jews out. They want to have their religion established as the official religion in the State of Israel, and to have our “Torah and Mitsvos” relegated to the status of a persecuted marginalized cult.
The efforts of “Women of the Wall” should be seen as being part of the same movement that includes drafting yeshiva students, cutting off funding of yeshivos and introducing punitive taxation aimed at yeshivos, banning gender separation in public, and probably to the rash of criminal prosecution of Orthodox Jews on dubious charges. Just because we aren’t shooting each other, doesn’t mean we are not at war.