Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Lernt, there are cases where it is possible or even necessary to inform, such as when a crime was committed. I know someone who had to ask a shaila and he was told that he should truthfully answer all questions from the police about people in his congregation…
So, presumably, this crowd feels a religious obligation to do what they do. So, one aveira leads to another …
wtsp > If one thinks that differing from the norm is unacceptable in Yiddishkeit, he is right and he is wrong.
– If one differs from Torah Shebichsav, Torah Shebaal Peh, from Halacha, from the guidance and instructions of Gedolei Hador, then that is completely and entirely – not only unacceptable, but – wrong.
– If one differs in how they fulfill Torah Shebichsav, Torah Shebaal Peh, or Halacha, in a manner that aligns with Ratzon Hashem, then not only is that NOT unacceptable, it is welcomed and admired and accepted in every way.Wtsp, right. None2 has a point complaining about pressure to conform. R Twersky writes that industrial age lead to lots of progress by uniform production and it spilled over into spiritual area and in education, in particular. So, it became easy to “train” lots of students with the same opinions, disregarding individual views, and it is unfortunate. AAQ adds that recent tech allows for individualization – even this CR room let’s people easily meet others with different opinions and have a (somewhat) rational discussion. I presume that most posters here will be in trouble if they talk like that in their local shul.
mazal > Unfortunately it will be very hard for Women to stop wearing these immodest, very natural looking wigs.
Right, it would be good to have a way for normal people to stay within halocha without extreme difficulties, as too much strictness turns people away.
I am not seeing any responses to normalize hats again. Nice-looking hats are more affordable and easier for the wearer, and they create an easy marker for who is married.Reports say that recent college grads who are still roaming around the City were decisive to this result. So, every Yid should go out, find a college grad, and give them a sefer about communism, such as “Black book of communism”
Qwerty, right, I have no problem with that opinion. In fact, I have a TV myself but I do not have a service to hook it up. Is this maris ayn?
To Nope and to elevate this discussion: there is a sefer out from R Chaim Mintz, Oorah founder, with his personal notes from R Moshe, R Ruderman and several other Rabbonim. I did not see anything about TVs yet, but lots of other interesting stories. One is that R Moshe did not want to respond to a rov who published a sefer against R Moshe psak on multiple issues – because R Moshe did not want to take parnosa away from that rov. Hope we treat those we disagrees with – with the same kindness.
Baruch > isolationists have never been more strong in the Republican party than today
maybe “in a hundred years” – US closed borders to immigrants in 1924, I recall. But Trump’s “fault” is mostly in moving this crowd from D- or none to R-, resulting in his winning of two elections. We just saw that he is capable of acting internationally, even while within maga boundaries of not engaging in a long conflict. Yes, there is danger that a true maga leader will come after. But the alternative is/was – a smooth talking dems who promise something to every voter in order to win; and we saw how they govern – not good for the country and for the world. As I mentioned before, Bibi clearly showed his preference – he could have pushed the operation into January if he hoped for more support for the previous administration, especially after elections.
akuperma > if he sets it too low he will have more people wanting to rent than he can deal with, plus he may have too little revenue to stay in business
Furthermore, often if you price too low, you may get questionable renters who may stop paying or who will try to push for other payouts, such as costs of repairing things they break. If you charge more, you’ll get people who either/or earn more and are not able/interested in fighting for every penny.
Zushy, shoin, don’t establish a state, just move to those areas under current governments that are there. I am sure they’ll understand you.
1654 – when Shearith Israel was founded.
> note that in New York City many if not most frum Jews rent rather than own their housing
who owns those buildings? maybe other Jews who moved to suburbs themselves?
Indeed, one of the talmidei chachamim in Bavel was in business of retail wine sales. He would buy a barrel, say for $100 and then sell 10 bottles for $10 each. Gemora asks – this does not make sense as there is no profit. Answer: he also had sediment left that he will sell to other businesses for small profit. The lesson is – ehrliche business is about having some profit – not too much but also so that the business can exist.
I am selling my midtown properties.
TV is a box capable of transmitting various channels. I do not understand how you can get one definite universal answer from a Rav about it.
Is one allowed to watch financial news if he is a financial analyst? I presume yes.
Are there shows that one is not allowed to watch? I did not watch them lately, but I presume that there are still some.
Is one capable to keep to the allowed channels? depends on a person and on a family.
Is it a good public policy for the community? this is a question for a Rav
Is one allowed to pay $100 for the cable TV if he can access the same information via already paid internet? Definitely no, switch cable off and send $100 to tzedokah.qwerty > The three contestants had to try to guess who was telling the truth.
This comes up at the end of maseches Shevuos. We do not like having two contradictory oaths that makes it clear that one of them is a liar. When I see a threat, khm, where it is obvious that at least half of the posters are not honest, I just lose interest. Maybe stick to a discussion of things that are verifiable by all sites and then it can lead to a productive exchange of opinions.
Avram to me> This is not fair. Nowhere in the letter did the author advocate confronting women about anything.
He implicitly does – he asks whether women understand what they are causing and he is looking for some community response. So, I took his thoughts to the “logical” conclusion. Again, I myself, am pro-hat for women and anti-hat for men.
Gadol, I am glad you were using your time productively conducting all kind of experiments on seduction. You just need to be careful translating results from general society to an observant community. People who are used to semi-nude women around them may not have any interest in hairstyles, but brothers of BY students might.
Suggestion above of a hat over a sheitel is something some tzadeikos are doing already. But we also need a practical solution for beinonos, who need to wear something daily to their law offices. How about nice hats without sheitel? 100 years ago a hat was considered tzanua and a sheitel was not. I know the OP will start grabbing around the hat looking for a tefach here or there, but can we not be so uptight? If this worked for some of our grandmothers who didn’t have access to hair from Indian temples. This is akin to throwing away your grandpa’s kiddush cup because it doesn’t measure up to Chazon Ish.
Ard, crazy was part of Trumps sneaky campaign to misdirect Iranian agents reading ywn into believing that there will be no strike. He is currently posting on rt messing up rusim whilst their emunah in maga
I am also puzzled by lack of communications between senior rabbonim. Do we need a sanhedrin for that or maybe a WhatsApp group? For an example, r G Kamenetsky reported that r Eliashev banned his book without talking directly: after some people told harav that r GK broke their agreement to pause selling the book temporarily. HaRav believed information and later replied to r Gk: I am Not a Navi
YYA, I don’t really have a strong argument for democracy under moshiach, I am only raising a doubt that it might be possible and democracy might not contradict Torah even during moshiach times
Thanks for bringing up Shmuel. I have a question on his annoyance at the request. All this loshon about “like other people ” is secondary, the reason behind the rejection of Navis rule is… Shmuels fault and even more , Shmuel saw same error done before and knew the grave punishment. Hope someone can solve this simple riddle and explain Shmuels anger.
Lernt > He would view the educated people who dare to speak in his name despite not shaving their heads and growing long payos as shkootzim, and some of them as malshinim as well.
I am not sure how far it went. I heard a talk by a doctor who (when young) was invited by SR for Rosh Hashona to be available for medical emergencies. The doctor later started learning for semicha at YU and proudly reported his advancement to SR who replied “better to be rofe cholim than mattir asurim”
Lernt, a good argument, but at what point. R Akiva supported “bar Kochba for Moschiach” campaign – and his position was as a successful leader of a rebellion, which in part means supported by people. And if Yidden will all have understanding of Hashem – they presumably will vote accordingly.
Anyway, the best way to improve on Israeli democracy is by influencing the voters. Let them see observant Yidden doing wonderful things and they’ll want to vote accordingly. In theory, a “religious” party should be getting more votes than those who go to corresponding shuls – votes by people who might not personally behave fully observant but looking favorably on those who are. I think Shas in this position getting “traditional” Sephardi votes – is this so? I don’t think other “religious” parties draw outsiders. For those who know better: is it so or not?
The letter author is on important mission. We should encourage more men to get courage and approach women indicating specific clothing items that arouse their concerns. I am sure the ladies were not aware of the effects and will appreciate the feedback. As R Tarfon would say: everyone should love tochacha. In fact, for better results, the men should join in small groups, maybe call them tznius police, similar to such successful groups used by frum Muslims in Iran.
I haven’t read r Friedman for years and I am too lazy to scroll up, but it seems that the controversial statement is that there is nobody to punish in this generation. I think it is dependable without denying Schar doctrine.
It is simply an observation about the generation: we are all confused, influenced by non torah doctrines, learned from confused teachers, so we are all anusim … see r Tarfon saying that nobody can receive tachaha in his generation and r Akiva replying that nobody can give …
Non-political, no I am not aware of this controversy. Did he discuss this in some other writings, because my source is a one line and not a discussion of sugya. I had a zechut to learn a sugya of tanur shel ahnai with the rav, and I don’t recall him treating r Eliezer in a biased way, although now I am thinking this sugya illustrates r Eliezer viewpoint.
Now if we go back to teaching girls shtus, there is more color to that: first whole sugya in Sotah is about questionable ladies so discussion of shtus is inevitable. This is not about Rashi’s daughters. Also Ben Azzai supports teaching girls, as if he is a big unmarried expert. On the other hand, r Yehoshua seems to agree with r Eliezer but adds other groups like chasid shoteh, so there are men with issues.
wtsp > AAQ: 1- So give me one reason why no Gedolei Torah support the current State of Israel.
For multiple reasons. For one, you are using “no true scotsman” sevorah – you were taught who the gedolei Israel are. I learn with, and read both charedi and non-charedi Talmidei Chachamim and I see arguments on both sides of such issues. One thing I see in person – a lot of Rabbis I find convincing based solely on what they teach – most likely also respect each other, across the party line. My most charedi rav who rails against college raises up when my most non-charedi rav, who mostly teaches people with graduate degrees, walks in. We can see the same at higher levels – as we discussed her ad nauseum, R Soloveitchik, R Feinstein, Lubavitcher Rebbe were respectful towards each other, etc, etc.
For another, explicit charedi policy from Chazon Ish and on is to separate the community from the outside dangers, to be in the proverbial (Rambamian) midbar. This policy led to a lot of success both in EY and chutz laaretz, but it creates limitations to what one can accept as a social policy. I know of people, for example, with children in very charedi yeshiva where nobody went to college, and when he asked Rosh Yeshiva, he allowed it.
For third, I am not sure all information get publicized. Is it well known, for a random example, that R Auerbach allowed future R Lau to study for bagrut while in his yeshiva and then chastised the boy when he said that he is not interested in science – “I listen to Hebrew U students in the bus discussing physics and how you can be not interested in it!”. That R Eliyasiv was apparently already very familiar with Mossad activities when someone asked him a shaila about related issues. …
wtsp > Firstly, how exactly are the Zionists preparing Eretz Yisroel for Mashiach? Secondly, I’m not telling anyone to go fight a war against Zionists. Rather, everyone should be aware and recognize the fact that founding the State was wrong, and that believing in Zionism is wrong.
I am not arguing with your arguments about early Zionists. I may be able to find zechoyos – many of them (not all), like Hertzl, came from totally assimilated background and were driven by ahavas Yisroel, but this is an interesting, but historical, argument.
I want to raise 2 points:
1) Zionism undoubtfully helped save a lot of Yidden before WW2, run away from Muslim countries, from USSR. It was especially beneficial for non-religious Jews who would surely intermarry if they were able to get to US or other countries like that. R Schach writes that Hashem made Yishmailim to hate Zionists so that they do not assimilate. So, somehow Hashem saw it fit to make those Zionists a kli of yeshua. Whether it is due to their hidden zechuyos or some other considerations, I can’t tell. But I bet you can’t also.2) Israel is not governed by grandchildren of King Gurion. Current Israeli government is a result of free elections by citizens of Israel. It has almost nothing to do with writings by Theodore Herzl/
These citizens are who they are – and how well we, as religious Jews, were able to show them the beauty of Torah. There were plenty of years to achieve that. I am thinking that even a kibutznik in 4th generation would support Torah learning by his shekalim if he were to see how nice and ehriche observant Jews are: “yes, I know my dati doctor who saved my child and a dati person who showed chesed to me when I got lost, and I want them to teach their children the same way”.
I first took Sh’A and posters ^ to mean that davka fathers should not be teaching daughters – let her learn herself or go to Beruria or Stern, but form reviewing underlying texts, it seems that this is simply referring to the standard path: there were no schools for girls and there were no texts of Torah shebealpe, outside of personal notes by Talmidei Chachomim, so it is either father or mother or grandparents or give her father’s notes to read.
btw, yoreh dea 246 referred above also brings definition of what is “Talmud” – understanding and developing concepts (davar mitoch davar), and then Remah adds that Bavli combines written/oral/talmud together. So, it is obvious from this that learning “Talmud” does not have to be literally learning blatt of the gemorah.
Note that there are many other dinim in YD 245-246 on which we are not so strict our days – teaching whole Tanach, not taking pay for teaching oral Torah, dismissing teachers when better ones are avilable, throwing out inappropriate students until they straighten up, “Anyone who resolves in his heart to engage in Torah and not to do work and to be supported by charity, this person profanes the Name and disgraces the Torah, for it is forbidden to benefit from the words of Torah. Any Torah that is not accompanied by work leads to sin and in the end he will steal from people” – not bringing these to distract, just saying that things evolved and each isue needs to be addressed according to their times.
Some of the isolationists are really against anyone who is not like them. America has this strong tradition from the time of country founding, when US tried to not get involved into endless wars between European powers. It served the country well and helped it develop while others were busy destroying each other. Until the time US became so strong that it became a moral issue where US is capable of changing the world to the better. This struggle happened in both WW1 and WW2, where US was not prepared militarily (Army was almost non-existent) but very capable due to industrial strength. (Btw, those who criticize FDR for not intervening enough on behalf of Jews, should also give him credit for pushing USA into the war despite strong opposition).
Republican party in 20th century had a sizeable isolationist minority (see Pat Buchanan, for example), and now Trump brought more of amei haaretz who used to be democrats (“uneducated” that he loves). Without this realignment, same amei haaretz would be joint with anti-Israeli left with way more damage. So, we need to recognize that democratic reality and try to work with or around them. Bibi did this brilliantly – by cleaning the path for B-2s from air defense and letting Trump take front stage with a spectacular makeh b’patish, allowing T to take credit but also claim that involvement is one-time only. As Chofetz Chaim sid – in uor times, one need to be klug, klug, and then frum.
Baruch > If it did benefit, it is not to Trump’s credit.
Important to note the logic behind such statements. Go a day back – and anti-T people were saying: we know he is only bluffing, this is his problem, etc. I am not speaking about this poster and this room, but across the board in the country. Now, after he did the opposite of their expectation – same people changing the tune to something else – not to his credit; maybe bombs were moved to another; this is a big risk, etc. Taken by themselves, each of these statement might make sense, but the overall logic is very simple – we do not care about the facts, we just care about finding some other argument to support our position. This is, sadly, pure propaganda, and has absolutely zero information to the readers. In Jewish terms, genevas daas and also zman and emotions of the readers. Similar un-kosher logic is used by many posters towards multiple events. Try to recognize it before you post, please. Midvar shker tirhok.
Who should we call first: a choson or a bar mitzva? The one who is older.
Blaming r Meir or not is catch 22 here, as kavod eshet havero is like his own even when she is not learned, so better not to blame anyone here.
Maybe you misinterpreted this non verbal communication? After all, r Gorelick stayed at YU for 40 years until his petirah, l believe. Or maybe he believed in daas Torah and followed r Soloveitchik shita despite his own changed opinion.
Anyway, here is an example of apparently a rov you respect showing respect to the rov you don’t respect but this logical contradiction is not registering somehow. Go slain your rebbe who taught you boolean Algebra.
Yeshivaman, thanks for bringing this prisha. This questions my teaching approach, but I think I have a defense. First, I am really doing it on behalf of my wife who has no patience to deal with these snobby girls and she hired me to teach them. She pays me well with gefilte fish and even brisket when she likes my teaching. So it is women guided teaching.
2nd, I do appreciate the idea that they may not be always taking things the right way and sometimes amazon shopping is a higher priority as it is mefurash in the gemora. So, I teach only what I think is going the right way. I know people who either send girls to schools or force feed masechtot themselves, and I am worrying about that.
Coffee, I brought Steinsaltz because it is an interesting observation that fits other positions of the Tanna on Torah learning and social issues in general. At the same time, it is a one liner in a popular book, not a scholarly discussion.
I am not sure what is your question on yihud. I presume she was sitting in a regular class, probably outdoors the way large classes were taught at the time. Unclear whether she was an only lady. there or there were other ladies and she is singled out for her exceptional abilities. I listed other options so that you could choose one.
anIsraeliYid > I recall that the issue is teaching one’s own daughter Gemara
How do you then explain gemora’s suggestion that the wife of T’Ch possibly does not require hatraah? And a suggestion to marry a daughter of T’Ch then if something happens with the husband, she will be able to teach Torah to kids?
My personal understanding is that “teaching gemora” does not mean learning tosfos, but can be “merely” learn reasons and derivations of haochos regarding mitzvos girls encounter, agadot related to middos and anything that will help them understand their husbands … when my daughters say that they would not be comfortable learning gemorah, I explain to them that it is too late – I already taught it to them. Maybe you will be more comfortable with this definition.
Menachem, thanks for an interesting article. It confirms that Rebbe opposed demonstrations – but he was not a daas Yachid as I posted (this is from memoirs of one of those students). The article uses, well, somewhat convoluted logic to prove that Rebbe’s quiet help was useful and demonstrations were not. It is probably convincing to those who only read DerHer … Comparing dealing w/ Soviets with French …
Note that the article write about a little later times when Israelis started talking about the issue. The memoirs was about a little earlier times, I think 1960s, when Israelis hoped to improve relationships with USSR and thus advised (lied to) R Soloveitchik. As he put it later: I asked them what is better for Soviet Jews, and they answered what is better for Israel itself. All other rebbeim were concerned, as the article said, that traditional shatdlanus is better and also that KGB could hurt those naive students.
This is absolutely not to disrespect legacy of Chabad in respect to USSR Jews – his father died there in exile, so I am sure he did not have any illusions about the regime, like some other more progressive leaders did.
PS the article is also funny substituting “eretz isroel” for “Israel” even when it is clearly about the state: Soviet Russia cut ties with Eretz Yisroel.
Maybe an editor did find/replace.YYA > Although in a genuine Torah Malchus, the King isn’t above the ‘constitution’ – i.e. the Torah, so Jewish מלכות is ‘constitutional’.
Indeed, and Achav example is pertinent – even a bad Jewish King is not ready to follow standard practices of goyishe ones. Probably something to keep in mind when judging Israeli politicians.
Still, Shmuel was not happy about Jews choosing monarchy. And Jewish system clearly has elements of separation of powers, to adifferent degree depending on time: king, kohanim, sanhedrin.
We are all in favor of David’s dynasty by now, but it does not mean that some elements of democracy are not appropriate. Gemora and especially Rishonim were during periods when monarchy was a natural state of things – democracy was discredited somehow by Greek and Roman experiences. But it is working, somewhat, in our days, so why can’t we retain elements of democracy?
none > Your literally saying we should all censure ourselves for you. Not say our opinions. Only think one way. Your ok?
what I mean is that when you are trying to convince someone of your opinion, you should present all info, including the one that contradicts your view; when you quote a Rav, try to see whether this Rav said other things; whether there are Rabonim who say it differently. A lot of discussions here are straight out of CNN war rooms, where each side shouts out their slogans in a hope than the other side will not bring relevant arguments. Beis Hillel was accepted because they always brought B Shammai opinion first.
keith > He returns the next day and asks “is it OK for me to learn Torah while I’m smoking?” “Of course!”
I heard an actual story about, I think, R Yaakov Kamenetsky. The student brought tea to the Rav while they were learning. The rav did not finish the tea by the time they finished learning. The student asked why the Rav is not drinking. Rav explained that they stopped learning. Student suggested to learn another blatt. Rav explained: I drink to learn. I do not learn to drink.
katan> Bruriah was obviously exceptional, even among daughters of tannaim.
There is a suggestion in Sanhedrin that a wife of a Talmid Chacham does not require a warning for a capital punishment (adultery?) because she knows the halokha. Presumably, her husband taught her or he married a daughter of T’Ch who taught her. So, it is not just Beruriah, it is a presumption about any wife of T’Ch.
I don’t think you guys appreciate how Trump’s suggestion of further negotiations worked to the benefit of the Israeli attack.
simcha > Which I understand to mean, you cannot impose learning on all women and girls. It can’t be a mandatory learning in the way it is for boys. But if you have someone who genuinely wants to expand her Torah knowledge, and she is smart enough to do so…
This sounds very reasonable.
coffee > Look at the story with bruriah
yes, she taught her husband to pray properly in regards to some gangsters, and he turned around and lured her into a trap. So, maybe men should not be learning Gemora because of what R Meir did? And as I mentioned ^, hundreds of teachers had no problem w/ teaching her and there is noone on record objecting. It is 300 tannaim against one coffee.
katan > As the Chofetz Chaim wrote, until that point, girls received their mesorah at home, and did not need formal schooling as provided by BYs.
where did he write this and what was the context? In 1920s, he clearly lamented that so many Jewish women in Poland do not know how to read and asks those who do to read halochos of niddah to them from his letter. No, he did not propose teaching them how to read. He did not think it is possible.
Zushy, a great idea – establish a frummer medinah between Nahariya and Beirut and leave their under protection of your learning. As Tzahal now holds some of those areas, maybe this should be part of the new law – if you refuse to join Tzahal, you are sent to the parts of EY that are outside of Medinah.
>>> “I can support the State of Israel, without supporting the apikorsis of many of its founders.”
wtsp> This is the most hypocritical sentence I’ve ever read.Wtsp, current leaders of Israel did not inherit power from their founders-fathers. They earned their position in an election. Thought experiment: R Sonnenfeld starts the medinah in 1910 (and why didn’t he?). It is all according to halocho but also a democracy. Then, war refugees and sephardim arrive and they vote in today’s parties. At the end, the matzav is the same. You need to deal with current state. Does it matter who started it.
This is not a new situation. We had a melech dragging bones of his father in public. Do we judge him being a bad melech because of his father, or do we judge him based on his actions?
lernt > Yet, when Menachem Begin asked for a bracha of success
indeed. R Schach also writes that Hashem induced Arabs to hate Zionists to prevent them form intermarrying. So, he clearly cared about their neshomos.
At the same time, when Begin offered full support for charedi schools, R Schach instructed to get usual percentage – so that the schools do not become fully dependent on government and then fail when the government changes. So, he was dealing with realistic expectations trying to build a healthy system.
Parenthetically, I do not understand when people selectively quote from someone they call a “gadol”. What greater disrespect you can have for someone than misrepresent his position and making him into a one-dimensional caricature.
crazy, just think what would Pres Biden or Pres Harris do at this point? Probably say – we will fully defend Israel BUT they need to stop immediately for world peace sake. And I know at least one person who agrees with that – Bibi. Otherwise, he would have started this op in January.
YYA > So, when we had a בית המקדש, people could be executed for some עבירות, even at age 13. Not now.
I agree w/ your general sentiment. I think things were similar back then. Gemora discusses all kind of reasons people can be off the hook for a korban – did not know this or that, were onus because they were mislead …
> Of course there is. Are all these chevrah so sure of their own tzidkus that they want to ‘wake up’ the מידת הדין ר״ל?
I think Hashem hardened their hearts for us to see how ridiculous such positions are when they are taken to the extreme – and so that we grow in our rachmonus and achdus.